But I'm not going to just accept that iTMS is the be all and end all when there is clearly a lot more going on.
Your last quip is precisely what I'm referring to. Nobody said the iTMS was the one way to do things. But here is what you said:
"If that's what Apple really believe is going to happen then they are not only fools but have misread the whole file sharing thing."
"It's all very well for a bunch of US Mac fanatics around here to say iTMS store is fantastic and doing just fine but that won't make it happen in the real world."
You've got a real problem with the iTMS by the looks of it. You don't think it'll work out in the "real world" for some reason. I'm trying to figure out why it's any different than a Tower Records or Virgin Megastore. The only thing that makes it different is the packaging, so your beef really just *seems* to be with the thought of licensing music, which is what we've been doing all along for decades.
Your last quip is precisely what I'm referring to. Nobody said the iTMS was the one way to do things. But here is what you said:
"If that's what Apple really believe is going to happen then they are not only fools but have misread the whole file sharing thing."
"It's all very well for a bunch of US Mac fanatics around here to say iTMS store is fantastic and doing just fine but that won't make it happen in the real world."
You've got a real problem with the iTMS by the looks of it. You don't think it'll work out in the "real world" for some reason. I'm trying to figure out why it's any different than a Tower Records or Virgin Megastore. The only thing that makes it different is the packaging, so your beef really just *seems* to be with the thought of licensing music, which is what we've been doing all along for decades.
I don't see that those comments are particularly contradictory. And yeah, it's similarity to a Virgin Megastore is probably one of the reasons I don't like it. Which is why I buy my music from an independent record store with a vast selection of music, that will hunt down and find any piece of music I want, that offers a lot more besides and nearly always sells CDs for prices less than Virgin.
I don't see that those comments are particularly contradictory. And yeah, it's similarity to a Virgin Megastore is probably one of the reasons I don't like it. Which is why I buy my music from an independent record store with a vast selection of music, that will hunt down and find any piece of music I want, that offers a lot more besides and nearly always sells CDs for prices less than Virgin.
Not quite. I wasn't directly comparing it to the Virgin Megastore. I was just using it as an example. I could have just as easily used Rasputin's or some hole in the wall on Telegraph in Berkeley.
I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to these posts because I know when people start using phrases like "one of those people" and "you obviously belong to one mindset" that any valuable debate has flown out the window.
I think you'll find the argument went downhill when you presented a totally incoherent argument against the iTMS and accused anyone who disagreed with you of being an Apple bigot (and called both their hearing and the price tag of their music system into question if they didn't agree with your unsubstantiated, and frankly incorrect, opinions about a 'huge disparity' between the quality of CD and iTMS encoded tracks.)
I am more than interested in any real insight into the future of music distribution. If you have some problem with iTMS other than the fact that it sells music that people want to hear at a price they are obviously willing to pay then I'm all ears.
I think you'll find the argument went downhill when you presented a totally incoherent argument against the iTMS and accused anyone who disagreed with you of being an Apple bigot (and called both their hearing and the price tag of their music system into question if they didn't agree with your unsubstantiated, and frankly incorrect, opinions about a 'huge disparity' between the quality of CD and iTMS encoded tracks.)
Wow that "bunch of US Mac fanatics" really got to some of you didn't it? Weird. I see people say much more insulting things than that around here and it just flies by. Wonder what that's all about.
Anyway, iTMS is only available in the US if you weren't aware. And most people around AI (and I include myself in this) are Mac fanatics. And if you want to translate that into "Apple bigot" that's your business. Personally, I prefer to consider issues from a variety of different perspectives including ones I might not necessarily agree with.
Re: hearing and quality of audio equipment. The fact different people hear different things when comparing sound quality is something that has come up many times in these forums. Likewise that the quality of audio equipment plays a big role.
But here if it makes you happy......
iTMS is the best thing Apple has ever done, it is unquestionably a huge success and represents the future of the music industry.
And I promise never ever to voice an opinion again about iTMS that doesn't accord with everybody else's.
The fact different people hear different things when comparing sound quality is something that has come up many times in these forums. Likewise that the quality of audio equipment plays a big role.
Different people hear different ranges of frequencies, are more attuned to hearing certain artefacts, which vary across different encoders and styles of music. That's why the only sensible way to evaluate psycho-acoustic codecs is through large scale testing. That testing has been carried out, by a variety of groups and AAC does very well, even at 128kbps. It simply doesn't matter what one individual hears unless their ears, their mind and their music happen by chance to be representative of the masses. Links to any serious discussion about the quality of iTMS encoded music are welcome.
Note that I wasn't offended (except about being mistaken for an American) I just thought your comments had the effect of shutting down the debate in a audiophile/emperor's new clothes kind of way (i.e. only the *special* people can see/hear it, so if you disagree you're only admitting to being cloth-eared pleb). You're still doing it with the "I'm correct but can't actually back up my claims because I'm being shouted down by the boorish Apple fanatics" schtick.
I'm still interested in hearing about real problems with iTMS (or the recording industry in general if you want to refocus).
Yeah, I was sad to see Apple starting to cave on those issues.
The hell I'm spending the price of a full CD for compressed audio and a JPEG. Sheesh!
The big labels will never learn. Never.
That is the heart of the matter. At some point, the cost benefit equation does not balance. That point is at different places for different people. Compressed audio and a JPEG might be acceptable at $9.99. At full CD price, it is not. Frankly, I don't much care for the deal even at $9.99 which is why I haven't bought any music from iTMS to date. I think there are some people on these boards who just want to see Apple be successful regardless of the offering or the tactic. I am not among them. I could care less about Apple's success. My loyalty is to myself when it comes to the products I buy. I don't buy a certain type of pants because I like the company. I buy whatever product suits me at the time. How much of the success of the music store is due to fan loyalty as opposed to a good business model? I couldn't say. If the iPod could play WMA media, would iTMS be as successful.? I don't know. For my money, Best Buy and Music Millennium have all the music I want for $10 or less. I think the novelty of iTMS drove success initially, along with a sense of hope that this is only the beginning of the music industry heading in the right direction. With prices now going up instead of down, that hope is diminishing rapidly.
That is the heart of the matter. At some point, the cost benefit equation does not balance. That point is at different places for different people. Compressed audio and a JPEG might be acceptable at $9.99. At full CD price, it is not. Frankly, I don't much care for the deal even at $9.99 which is why I haven't bought any music from iTMS to date. I think there are some people on these boards who just want to see Apple be successful regardless of the offering or the tactic. I am not among them. I could care less about Apple's success. My loyalty is to myself when it comes to the products I buy. I don't buy a certain type of pants because I like the company. I buy whatever product suits me at the time. How much of the success of the music store is due to fan loyalty as opposed to a good business model? I couldn't say. If the iPod could play WMA media, would iTMS be as successful.? I don't know. For my money, Best Buy and Music Millennium have all the music I want for $10 or less. I think the novelty of iTMS drove success initially, along with a sense of hope that this is only the beginning of the music industry heading in the right direction. With prices now going up instead of down, that hope is diminishing rapidly.
Peace to all.
You have a good point, and I too won't buy at iTunes if the price is too close to that of the CD. I think at this point, though, Apple and the Record Labels are experimenting with different price points. Being businesses they want to charge as much as the market will bear, so they'll raise a few prices here and there and see how it effects sales. If no one buys NERD at 16.99, they'll know that's too much. So I see the raising prices not as an ominous sign, but merely as an inevitabel marketing experiment.
I'll vote with my pocketbook by buying only those songs and albums I think are a good deal. But for certain albums at certain times, I sure like the instant gratification of online purchases.
Frankly, I don't much care for the deal even at $9.99 which is why I haven't bought any music from iTMS to date.
Don't you perceive a benefit in the ability for users to "cherry pick" their favorite tracks. I have yet to buy a full album because i'm sort of an individual track guy. If I know I want the whole album then I'm just going to buy the CD.
Quote:
How much of the success of the music store is due to fan loyalty as opposed to a good business model?
iTMS wouldn't be putting up the numbers it is without a majority of PC users purchasing tracks. So as for loyalty to Apple I don't think it exists. I think iTMS + iPod make for a compelling strategy.
Quote:
I think the novelty of iTMS drove success initially, along with a sense of hope that this is only the beginning of the music industry heading in the right direction. With prices now going up instead of down, that hope is diminishing rapidly.
Your comments to the effect of " I don't much care for the deal even at $9.99 which is why I haven't bought any music from iTMS to date." renders you're conclusion moot. You've admitted that you don't use the service so basically your the last person that people who use iTMS will depend on for salient information. You view that iTMS is a novelty which will diminish over time is fair but have never tried the service so you only offer weak supposition and conjecture. Try the service...see how it moves you and then make a conclusion.
Don't you perceive a benefit in the ability for users to "cherry pick" their favorite tracks. I have yet to buy a full album because i'm sort of an individual track guy. If I know I want the whole album then I'm just going to buy the CD.
iTMS wouldn't be putting up the numbers it is without a majority of PC users purchasing tracks. So as for loyalty to Apple I don't think it exists. I think iTMS + iPod make for a compelling strategy.
Your comments to the effect of " I don't much care for the deal even at $9.99 which is why I haven't bought any music from iTMS to date." renders you're conclusion moot. You've admitted that you don't use the service so basically your the last person that people who use iTMS will depend on for salient information. You view that iTMS is a novelty which will diminish over time is fair but have never tried the service so you only offer weak supposition and conjecture. Try the service...see how it moves you and then make a conclusion.
I guess I'm more of an album guy. I have discovered some of my favorite music on albums. There may have been only one top ten song on it, but the rest were right up my alley as well. I feel like I am missing something if I don't buy the album because only a few of the songs will ever get radio play. That is why music ala carte' (not sure how to spell it) does not appeal to me. Also, albums can be had from $4 to $10 if one shops carefully.
I agree that my opinions about the quality of the service are not worth spit since I don't use it. That is why I have tried not to give such opinions. I do have a valid opinion about the business model, however, as I do buy music from time to time and I am technologically connected. Therefore, I am part of the target market. That is why I believe that my reasoning for not buying iTMS tracks are quite valid. When the service was first launched, I was excited about it and I really wanted to like it. The total inability to find songs or albums that I wanted to buy was a big drawback. Later, I became concerned about spending so much money for downloaded tracks. I have lost all kinds of data in the past and I know from hard experience that bad things happen to good downloads. A catastrophic hard-drive failure can leave you $100+ in the hole with nothing to show for it and no way to recover your loss. If you have to make back-up CDs and keep hardcopies anyway, why not just buy cheap CDs from a music store?
Currently, I have 8 winning bottle caps and I have no idea what to use them on. I'm sure I'll find something. Anyway, there's something to be said for instant gratification. But there is even more to be said about a secure and unrestricted format. When the price hits $7 for downloaded albums, I might change my tune (iTune). That's just me.
actually, the main reason i won't use the iTMS is that at high volumes on quality speakers, they sound like crap.
i don't like giving money to the RIAA, and i refuse to pay good money for a poorer quality product.
i haven't bought a CD in ages because of the RIAA, and i won't buy through iTMS because of the quality.
give me a .flac encoded or other lossless audio file format. i could even deal with mild DRM in that case. but i'm not paying for a crap quality DRM'ed file that gives money to the RIAA.
Suddenly I have this mental image where just as the foot soldiers have decided discretion is the better part of valor and have beaten a hasty retreat, the heavy artillery, apparently impervious, moves into position.
i refuse to pay good money for a poorer quality product.
That is such a *ridiculous* statement.
So you've never bought anything but the highest quality item available, regardless of any other factor? No wonder you've not bought many CDs lately.
To state that you've never paid any money (never mind a premium, which you could probably argue iTMS is charging) for convenience, availability, time-savings or choice at the expense of audio quality puts you firmly in the ranting audiophile category.
But I don't think you mind being put in that box and at least you haven't tried to claim that the average person cares about audio 'quality' as much as you. In fact you probably look down on people without the taste, sophistication, and $10,000 stereo necessary to realise that all psycho-acoustically compressed music sounds like 'crap'.
(Of course, if you had *really* good hearing you'd also be complaining about the loudness race, which not even .flac is going to save you from, and may even be what you're hearing when you listen to iTMS tracks)
---------------
I have to agree with you on the DRM though. I know that *I* can work around it but the average person can't. The really sad thing is that (if you believe Tim O'Reilly's claim that Piracy is Progressive Taxation) this DRM only benefits the bestselling artists and actively harms new, and particularly less commercial, artists.
I'd really like it if you could choose whether your songs on iTMS had DRM or not. The RIAA and other paranoids would still be able cling to the belief that this will stop all copyright infrigement while new acts could take advantage of the free publicity of having their tracks traded around.
George Michael, and others following his lead, may want to take advantage of this (donating proceeds to charity etc.) or Gutenberg Project style endeavours could add out of copyright works and use the proceeds to cover running costs.
Suddenly I have this mental image where just as the foot soldiers have decided discretion is the better part of valor and have beaten a hasty retreat, the heavy artillery, apparently impervious, moves into position.
But carry on. I watch with interest.
Don't watch. Respond.
Quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
You still haven't substantiated your comments.
1) How has Apple misread "the whole file sharing thing?"
2) How do people acquire music in "the real world?"
What is ridiculous about refusing to pay the same or more money for a product that overall could be considered inferior to another (in this case iTunes vs CDs)?
Some people and lossless audio and unrestricted (in older CDs) access over instant gratification. That's *SO* ridiculous.
What is ridiculous about refusing to pay the same or more money for a product that overall could be considered inferior to another (in this case iTunes vs CDs)?
What you think you are agreeing with is not what was stated. I'm all in favour of people making decisions about what product "overall could be considered inferior" to them. But the difference between an iTMS track and an Audio CD however is not limited simply to a further level of compression. Like:
* Instant gratification
* Lack of physical medium and special packaging, booklets etc.
* Buying one track from a CD
* Buying tracks that aren't available otherwise
* and others ...
This gives you a range of different factors to weigh up in deciding whether you should buy a particular track or collection of tracks from iTMS or from a physical CD store. You could easily decide that a $10 dollar CD that you order online and receive in a week in order to get one track is 'inferior' to downloading it for 99¢ from iTMS. An opposite decision is equally possible even if your tin ear cannot differentiate between the CD and AAC because you want the limited edition booklet or if want all the tracks then the CD is cheaper.
Taking a stance that audio quality is the only thing that matters, and then expanding that to a general principle that you will not ever spend money (not 'more money', just 'money' or 'good money' to be exact) on any product that isn't the 'best' quality available *is* ridiculous in its extremism, (and certainly rules out the CD format in many cases, which just adds to the craziness).
Question. How will iTMS ever improve in sound quality? If a half million songs are encoded with 128 bit AAC, then the only way to ever improve is to re-encode the original to a different format. Is that not so? That is a very time consuming and expensive process so the more music they do at low level AAC, the less likely it is we will see an upward migration of quality. Is space and size the only consideration or are there other technical or marketing reasons why loss-less formats are not used? Why are they married to AAC, and such a low bit rate? Just curious.
Comments
But I'm not going to just accept that iTMS is the be all and end all when there is clearly a lot more going on.
Your last quip is precisely what I'm referring to. Nobody said the iTMS was the one way to do things. But here is what you said:
"If that's what Apple really believe is going to happen then they are not only fools but have misread the whole file sharing thing."
"It's all very well for a bunch of US Mac fanatics around here to say iTMS store is fantastic and doing just fine but that won't make it happen in the real world."
You've got a real problem with the iTMS by the looks of it. You don't think it'll work out in the "real world" for some reason. I'm trying to figure out why it's any different than a Tower Records or Virgin Megastore. The only thing that makes it different is the packaging, so your beef really just *seems* to be with the thought of licensing music, which is what we've been doing all along for decades.
Originally posted by Eugene
Your last quip is precisely what I'm referring to. Nobody said the iTMS was the one way to do things. But here is what you said:
"If that's what Apple really believe is going to happen then they are not only fools but have misread the whole file sharing thing."
"It's all very well for a bunch of US Mac fanatics around here to say iTMS store is fantastic and doing just fine but that won't make it happen in the real world."
You've got a real problem with the iTMS by the looks of it. You don't think it'll work out in the "real world" for some reason. I'm trying to figure out why it's any different than a Tower Records or Virgin Megastore. The only thing that makes it different is the packaging, so your beef really just *seems* to be with the thought of licensing music, which is what we've been doing all along for decades.
I don't see that those comments are particularly contradictory. And yeah, it's similarity to a Virgin Megastore is probably one of the reasons I don't like it. Which is why I buy my music from an independent record store with a vast selection of music, that will hunt down and find any piece of music I want, that offers a lot more besides and nearly always sells CDs for prices less than Virgin.
Originally posted by crazychester
I don't see that those comments are particularly contradictory. And yeah, it's similarity to a Virgin Megastore is probably one of the reasons I don't like it. Which is why I buy my music from an independent record store with a vast selection of music, that will hunt down and find any piece of music I want, that offers a lot more besides and nearly always sells CDs for prices less than Virgin.
Not quite. I wasn't directly comparing it to the Virgin Megastore. I was just using it as an example. I could have just as easily used Rasputin's or some hole in the wall on Telegraph in Berkeley.
Originally posted by crazychester
I don't know why I'm bothering to reply to these posts because I know when people start using phrases like "one of those people" and "you obviously belong to one mindset" that any valuable debate has flown out the window.
I think you'll find the argument went downhill when you presented a totally incoherent argument against the iTMS and accused anyone who disagreed with you of being an Apple bigot (and called both their hearing and the price tag of their music system into question if they didn't agree with your unsubstantiated, and frankly incorrect, opinions about a 'huge disparity' between the quality of CD and iTMS encoded tracks.)
I am more than interested in any real insight into the future of music distribution. If you have some problem with iTMS other than the fact that it sells music that people want to hear at a price they are obviously willing to pay then I'm all ears.
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
I think you'll find the argument went downhill when you presented a totally incoherent argument against the iTMS and accused anyone who disagreed with you of being an Apple bigot (and called both their hearing and the price tag of their music system into question if they didn't agree with your unsubstantiated, and frankly incorrect, opinions about a 'huge disparity' between the quality of CD and iTMS encoded tracks.)
Wow that "bunch of US Mac fanatics" really got to some of you didn't it? Weird. I see people say much more insulting things than that around here and it just flies by. Wonder what that's all about.
Anyway, iTMS is only available in the US if you weren't aware. And most people around AI (and I include myself in this) are Mac fanatics. And if you want to translate that into "Apple bigot" that's your business. Personally, I prefer to consider issues from a variety of different perspectives including ones I might not necessarily agree with.
Re: hearing and quality of audio equipment. The fact different people hear different things when comparing sound quality is something that has come up many times in these forums. Likewise that the quality of audio equipment plays a big role.
But here if it makes you happy......
iTMS is the best thing Apple has ever done, it is unquestionably a huge success and represents the future of the music industry.
And I promise never ever to voice an opinion again about iTMS that doesn't accord with everybody else's.
1) How has Apple misread "the whole file sharing thing?"
2) How do people acquire music in "the real world?"
Originally posted by crazychester
The fact different people hear different things when comparing sound quality is something that has come up many times in these forums. Likewise that the quality of audio equipment plays a big role.
Different people hear different ranges of frequencies, are more attuned to hearing certain artefacts, which vary across different encoders and styles of music. That's why the only sensible way to evaluate psycho-acoustic codecs is through large scale testing. That testing has been carried out, by a variety of groups and AAC does very well, even at 128kbps. It simply doesn't matter what one individual hears unless their ears, their mind and their music happen by chance to be representative of the masses. Links to any serious discussion about the quality of iTMS encoded music are welcome.
Note that I wasn't offended (except about being mistaken for an American) I just thought your comments had the effect of shutting down the debate in a audiophile/emperor's new clothes kind of way (i.e. only the *special* people can see/hear it, so if you disagree you're only admitting to being cloth-eared pleb). You're still doing it with the "I'm correct but can't actually back up my claims because I'm being shouted down by the boorish Apple fanatics" schtick.
I'm still interested in hearing about real problems with iTMS (or the recording industry in general if you want to refocus).
Originally posted by Amorph
Yeah, I was sad to see Apple starting to cave on those issues.
The hell I'm spending the price of a full CD for compressed audio and a JPEG. Sheesh!
The big labels will never learn. Never.
That is the heart of the matter. At some point, the cost benefit equation does not balance. That point is at different places for different people. Compressed audio and a JPEG might be acceptable at $9.99. At full CD price, it is not. Frankly, I don't much care for the deal even at $9.99 which is why I haven't bought any music from iTMS to date. I think there are some people on these boards who just want to see Apple be successful regardless of the offering or the tactic. I am not among them. I could care less about Apple's success. My loyalty is to myself when it comes to the products I buy. I don't buy a certain type of pants because I like the company. I buy whatever product suits me at the time. How much of the success of the music store is due to fan loyalty as opposed to a good business model? I couldn't say. If the iPod could play WMA media, would iTMS be as successful.? I don't know. For my money, Best Buy and Music Millennium have all the music I want for $10 or less. I think the novelty of iTMS drove success initially, along with a sense of hope that this is only the beginning of the music industry heading in the right direction. With prices now going up instead of down, that hope is diminishing rapidly.
Peace to all.
Originally posted by Mac Voyer
That is the heart of the matter. At some point, the cost benefit equation does not balance. That point is at different places for different people. Compressed audio and a JPEG might be acceptable at $9.99. At full CD price, it is not. Frankly, I don't much care for the deal even at $9.99 which is why I haven't bought any music from iTMS to date. I think there are some people on these boards who just want to see Apple be successful regardless of the offering or the tactic. I am not among them. I could care less about Apple's success. My loyalty is to myself when it comes to the products I buy. I don't buy a certain type of pants because I like the company. I buy whatever product suits me at the time. How much of the success of the music store is due to fan loyalty as opposed to a good business model? I couldn't say. If the iPod could play WMA media, would iTMS be as successful.? I don't know. For my money, Best Buy and Music Millennium have all the music I want for $10 or less. I think the novelty of iTMS drove success initially, along with a sense of hope that this is only the beginning of the music industry heading in the right direction. With prices now going up instead of down, that hope is diminishing rapidly.
Peace to all.
You have a good point, and I too won't buy at iTunes if the price is too close to that of the CD. I think at this point, though, Apple and the Record Labels are experimenting with different price points. Being businesses they want to charge as much as the market will bear, so they'll raise a few prices here and there and see how it effects sales. If no one buys NERD at 16.99, they'll know that's too much. So I see the raising prices not as an ominous sign, but merely as an inevitabel marketing experiment.
I'll vote with my pocketbook by buying only those songs and albums I think are a good deal. But for certain albums at certain times, I sure like the instant gratification of online purchases.
Frankly, I don't much care for the deal even at $9.99 which is why I haven't bought any music from iTMS to date.
Don't you perceive a benefit in the ability for users to "cherry pick" their favorite tracks. I have yet to buy a full album because i'm sort of an individual track guy. If I know I want the whole album then I'm just going to buy the CD.
How much of the success of the music store is due to fan loyalty as opposed to a good business model?
iTMS wouldn't be putting up the numbers it is without a majority of PC users purchasing tracks. So as for loyalty to Apple I don't think it exists. I think iTMS + iPod make for a compelling strategy.
I think the novelty of iTMS drove success initially, along with a sense of hope that this is only the beginning of the music industry heading in the right direction. With prices now going up instead of down, that hope is diminishing rapidly.
Your comments to the effect of " I don't much care for the deal even at $9.99 which is why I haven't bought any music from iTMS to date." renders you're conclusion moot. You've admitted that you don't use the service so basically your the last person that people who use iTMS will depend on for salient information. You view that iTMS is a novelty which will diminish over time is fair but have never tried the service so you only offer weak supposition and conjecture. Try the service...see how it moves you and then make a conclusion.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Don't you perceive a benefit in the ability for users to "cherry pick" their favorite tracks. I have yet to buy a full album because i'm sort of an individual track guy. If I know I want the whole album then I'm just going to buy the CD.
iTMS wouldn't be putting up the numbers it is without a majority of PC users purchasing tracks. So as for loyalty to Apple I don't think it exists. I think iTMS + iPod make for a compelling strategy.
Your comments to the effect of " I don't much care for the deal even at $9.99 which is why I haven't bought any music from iTMS to date." renders you're conclusion moot. You've admitted that you don't use the service so basically your the last person that people who use iTMS will depend on for salient information. You view that iTMS is a novelty which will diminish over time is fair but have never tried the service so you only offer weak supposition and conjecture. Try the service...see how it moves you and then make a conclusion.
I guess I'm more of an album guy. I have discovered some of my favorite music on albums. There may have been only one top ten song on it, but the rest were right up my alley as well. I feel like I am missing something if I don't buy the album because only a few of the songs will ever get radio play. That is why music ala carte' (not sure how to spell it) does not appeal to me. Also, albums can be had from $4 to $10 if one shops carefully.
I agree that my opinions about the quality of the service are not worth spit since I don't use it. That is why I have tried not to give such opinions. I do have a valid opinion about the business model, however, as I do buy music from time to time and I am technologically connected. Therefore, I am part of the target market. That is why I believe that my reasoning for not buying iTMS tracks are quite valid. When the service was first launched, I was excited about it and I really wanted to like it. The total inability to find songs or albums that I wanted to buy was a big drawback. Later, I became concerned about spending so much money for downloaded tracks. I have lost all kinds of data in the past and I know from hard experience that bad things happen to good downloads. A catastrophic hard-drive failure can leave you $100+ in the hole with nothing to show for it and no way to recover your loss. If you have to make back-up CDs and keep hardcopies anyway, why not just buy cheap CDs from a music store?
Currently, I have 8 winning bottle caps and I have no idea what to use them on. I'm sure I'll find something. Anyway, there's something to be said for instant gratification. But there is even more to be said about a secure and unrestricted format. When the price hits $7 for downloaded albums, I might change my tune (iTune). That's just me.
i don't like giving money to the RIAA, and i refuse to pay good money for a poorer quality product.
i haven't bought a CD in ages because of the RIAA, and i won't buy through iTMS because of the quality.
give me a .flac encoded or other lossless audio file format. i could even deal with mild DRM in that case. but i'm not paying for a crap quality DRM'ed file that gives money to the RIAA.
But carry on. I watch with interest.
http://www.magnetbox.com/riaa/
As a bonus, it works for CDs too, because equating everything on iTMS with the RIAA is simply wrong:
http://cdbaby.org/stories/04/01/05/0558572.html
Originally posted by alcimedes
actually, the main reason i won't use the iTMS is that at high volumes on quality speakers, they sound like crap.
They only sound crap at 'high volumes'? Interesting finding. Ever tried double blind testing AAC to find out what bitrate is transparent to your ears?
Originally posted by alcimedes
i refuse to pay good money for a poorer quality product.
That is such a *ridiculous* statement.
So you've never bought anything but the highest quality item available, regardless of any other factor? No wonder you've not bought many CDs lately.
To state that you've never paid any money (never mind a premium, which you could probably argue iTMS is charging) for convenience, availability, time-savings or choice at the expense of audio quality puts you firmly in the ranting audiophile category.
But I don't think you mind being put in that box and at least you haven't tried to claim that the average person cares about audio 'quality' as much as you. In fact you probably look down on people without the taste, sophistication, and $10,000 stereo necessary to realise that all psycho-acoustically compressed music sounds like 'crap'.
(Of course, if you had *really* good hearing you'd also be complaining about the loudness race, which not even .flac is going to save you from, and may even be what you're hearing when you listen to iTMS tracks)
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I have to agree with you on the DRM though. I know that *I* can work around it but the average person can't. The really sad thing is that (if you believe Tim O'Reilly's claim that Piracy is Progressive Taxation) this DRM only benefits the bestselling artists and actively harms new, and particularly less commercial, artists.
I'd really like it if you could choose whether your songs on iTMS had DRM or not. The RIAA and other paranoids would still be able cling to the belief that this will stop all copyright infrigement while new acts could take advantage of the free publicity of having their tracks traded around.
George Michael, and others following his lead, may want to take advantage of this (donating proceeds to charity etc.) or Gutenberg Project style endeavours could add out of copyright works and use the proceeds to cover running costs.
Originally posted by crazychester
Suddenly I have this mental image where just as the foot soldiers have decided discretion is the better part of valor and have beaten a hasty retreat, the heavy artillery, apparently impervious, moves into position.
But carry on. I watch with interest.
Don't watch. Respond.
Originally posted by Eugene
You still haven't substantiated your comments.
1) How has Apple misread "the whole file sharing thing?"
2) How do people acquire music in "the real world?"
Please.
Originally posted by stupider...likeafox
That is such a *ridiculous* statement.
What. The. Fsck.
What is ridiculous about refusing to pay the same or more money for a product that overall could be considered inferior to another (in this case iTunes vs CDs)?
Some people and lossless audio and unrestricted (in older CDs) access over instant gratification. That's *SO* ridiculous.
Barto
Originally posted by Barto
What is ridiculous about refusing to pay the same or more money for a product that overall could be considered inferior to another (in this case iTunes vs CDs)?
What you think you are agreeing with is not what was stated. I'm all in favour of people making decisions about what product "overall could be considered inferior" to them. But the difference between an iTMS track and an Audio CD however is not limited simply to a further level of compression. Like:
* Instant gratification
* Lack of physical medium and special packaging, booklets etc.
* Buying one track from a CD
* Buying tracks that aren't available otherwise
* and others ...
This gives you a range of different factors to weigh up in deciding whether you should buy a particular track or collection of tracks from iTMS or from a physical CD store. You could easily decide that a $10 dollar CD that you order online and receive in a week in order to get one track is 'inferior' to downloading it for 99¢ from iTMS. An opposite decision is equally possible even if your tin ear cannot differentiate between the CD and AAC because you want the limited edition booklet or if want all the tracks then the CD is cheaper.
Taking a stance that audio quality is the only thing that matters, and then expanding that to a general principle that you will not ever spend money (not 'more money', just 'money' or 'good money' to be exact) on any product that isn't the 'best' quality available *is* ridiculous in its extremism, (and certainly rules out the CD format in many cases, which just adds to the craziness).