Can we get something in the posting guidelines to the tune of:
"No threads about how Apples cost more. We all know they cost more. We also know that Apple isn't keeping costs up for no reason, and no whining you do will make Macs cheaper."
Or, at least, assemble a sticky and then just dump the link to the sticky every time someone brings up a thread on this topic that has been visited many, many times before.
Thats all great that you can run your organization on Mac's, but that doesn't help me. First, no I cannot port our DB's over. Currently they are running Oracle 8.1.6 on AIX via P690's, 4 to be exact. Not only will the vendor laugh at porting the backend over to mac but it would void our support, plus we have no problems whatsoever with it. AIX is bullet proof and there is no denying that. Secondly, our front-end apps are to large to do local installs and when we load updates I don't want to have to push these out to the workstations. So to solve that problem we use Metaframe XP, that way I only have to do updates to the servers and all the clients get them.
OK...but there's no real reason this stuff couldn't run on Macs. 90% of these "customized apps" that run in Windows or X11 are glorified databases.
The limitations you speak of are MONETARY limitations, not technical ones. Customized and/or cottage industry apps are expensive on any platform. They'll be even more expensive on a smaller platform like the Mac. Heck, porting front-end apps might even be more expensive than paying for a small army of techs, anti-virus software, the Microsoft update roulette, and high-dollar IBM server hardware. Maybe.
Thats all great that you can run your organization on Mac's, but that doesn't help me. First, no I cannot port our DB's over. Currently they are running Oracle 8.1.6 on AIX via P690's, 4 to be exact. Not only will the vendor laugh at porting the backend over to mac but it would void our support, plus we have no problems whatsoever with it. AIX is bullet proof and there is no denying that. Secondly, our front-end apps are to large to do local installs and when we load updates I don't want to have to push these out to the workstations. So to solve that problem we use Metaframe XP, that way I only have to do updates to the servers and all the clients get them.
Also, you mention the Unix base to Mac OSX. I've been an AIX admin for the past 5yrs or so. I enjoy OSX, but it kills me when people see unix and assume that you can take any "unix" app and mount it/run it in OSX. This is not the case, so no I can't just port Unix based apps over. Heck I have the makefiles to the vmware console written for Redhat and can't get the dang thing to compile to X. The cost in trying to get apps moved over is too great to even think about.
I don't know why everyone always mentions citrix for mac. The only client available is the full blown ICA client. The majority of orgs are publishing apps in webpages, like we do. The footprint is so much smaller and you don't have to go through all the hassle of changing server names, god forbid, you have more than one server farm. Thats what is so wonderful about the web ica client. Guess what, no web ica client for mac. Just a way outdated ica client that was so 3 years ago. You do know that Metaframe is for only Wintel servers right?
Finding Nemo? How does they help me? Its a cute movie though.
There's a pretty obvious solution to your problem. Don't get Macs.
Obviously your business is running perfectly well as it is, so there's actually no reason to change.
Some new chip will come out that is better than any ppc or x86. Then the fall of commercial operating systems. Linux and unix will thrive with these new type of computer systems. And with all computer companies making the machine they will be relativly cheap.
I don't see ANY of you guys on Apple's board of directors.
Apple's biggest problem is that no matter what they choose to do there's always somebody bitching about it.
Apple has vision - something that no other computer manufacturer out there has at the moment. This is the key to their survival. Apple is willing to risk trying out new ideas, where the other guys aren't.
WIMP GUI could have been a flop but it wasn't. The migration to PowerPC could have been a flop, but it wasn't. The migration to Mac OS X could have been a flop but it wasn't. iPod could have been a flop but it wasn't.
As far as I can see there's only one company pushing the envelope at the moment. If you don't want to pay to support their innovation then go buy a PC from Wallflower PC. Do you think all these other PC manufacturers spend so much on R&D? Do you think they are willing to rock the boat?
Or do you think they just sit around like rats fighting over the spilt crumbs?
Microsoft's idea of innovation is a ****ing talking paperclip for ****s sake! And the other big players are willing to take a back seat.
Everytime we buy an Apple product we fund Apple's vision? we are funding products that might only appear ten years down the line. It was the profit from biege G3s and iMacs that allowed Apple to bring iPod to market.
There are a lot of short sighted people with soapboxes on this board. Stop bitching about Apple and let them get on with their job.
Thats all great that you can run your organization on Mac's, but that doesn't help me. First, no I cannot port our DB's over. Currently they are running Oracle 8.1.6 on AIX via P690's, 4 to be exact. Not only will the vendor laugh at porting the backend over to mac but it would void our support, plus we have no problems whatsoever with it. AIX is bullet proof and there is no denying that. Secondly, our front-end apps are to large to do local installs and when we load updates I don't want to have to push these out to the workstations. So to solve that problem we use Metaframe XP, that way I only have to do updates to the servers and all the clients get them.
Also, you mention the Unix base to Mac OSX. I've been an AIX admin for the past 5yrs or so. I enjoy OSX, but it kills me when people see unix and assume that you can take any "unix" app and mount it/run it in OSX. This is not the case, so no I can't just port Unix based apps over. Heck I have the makefiles to the vmware console written for Redhat and can't get the dang thing to compile to X. The cost in trying to get apps moved over is too great to even think about.
I don't know why everyone always mentions citrix for mac. The only client available is the full blown ICA client. The majority of orgs are publishing apps in webpages, like we do. The footprint is so much smaller and you don't have to go through all the hassle of changing server names, god forbid, you have more than one server farm. Thats what is so wonderful about the web ica client. Guess what, no web ica client for mac. Just a way outdated ica client that was so 3 years ago. You do know that Metaframe is for only Wintel servers right?
Finding Nemo? How does they help me? Its a cute movie though.
RE READ MY POST.
Your arugment to as I observed was that major Apps dont run on a mac.
My Arugument to you is that they do. WETA uses macs. ( ie the graphics for lord of the rings ) I also point to the fact that Macs are being adopted in the scientific community. Frankly as for your rant about databases I doubt you. Oracle DBs CAN and DO run on macs... Macs are evolving at a top level to enterprise machines just as wintel tries to evolve as a consumer focus. The majority of orgs ( and I should know here as I touch base with multinationals orgs CIO's & CEO's daily ) that publsih docs are in two formats PDF and html and that's the mac's strength - publishing. Most major Apps these days are thin client ie browser based and run on both mac pc and linux. If you not running a thin client then YOUR the one with the tech issue. Im NOT saying that macs are perfect no computer is but macs are a better choice for vertical market segments such as creative busines and soon scientific. We use a combination of Macs and PC's but time and time again its always the PC's that give my CTO and me all the grief.
As for finding nemo...
Pixar develops finding nemo on a mac also creating the Pixlet codec... better compression - hey look I can stream and compress video better... hmmm... YOU SAY YOU WORK FOR A HOSPITAL? DONT THEY RELY ON COMPANIES LIKE APPLE DEVELOPING IMAGING?
Look past the obvious. Apple biggest problem - wanabee detractors who dont realise that Apple doesn't have to be all things to all people. Sure Apple's got 5% Mrt share who cares is selling to businesses like mine who love their products get value and have money. Yep Apple is selective... but being the village slut gives you the reputation as a whore.
Now where did I want to go today? oh that right... to the Apple store
Last I checked, for the 7457, Motorola's asking $250 per CPU in lots of 10,000, in case you're wondering.
Amorph,
I went looking for 7457s in bulk on Google. I found some, but my pricing came out much less than $250 per CPU. I'm thinking that maybe I looked in the wrong place.
Can you please drop me a link of WHERE you found that bulk pricing?
Shameless 'bump' while waiting for Amorph's response to pricing and links for the G4s.
-Antithesis
From a MOT press release dated Feb 2003:
Pricing and Availability
Alpha samples of the MPC7457 and MPC7447 PowerPC processors are available today to selected customers. General market sampling is planned for March, with production expected to commence in Q4 2003. Suggested retail pricing for the MPC7457 at 1 GHz is expected to be $189 (USD) in quantities of 10,000.
Prolly Apple's biggest problem is that they are in a situation where they want to continue doing things the "Apple" way but with such limited marketshare they can only focus on providing quality as well as being intuitive in everything they do. The thing we need people is patience, and understanding. They are doing the best they can. So what if it doesn't work for everyone, well guess what, they never will be able too. We should be thankful they are still around, I mean don't you prolly think so?
Prollyis a cool word, I hope it replaces McSissy ProbablyPants. Words change as does prolly the future does too wouldn't you think?
Lighten up the fun with spelling is you can mess it up.
Prolly Apple's biggest problem is that they are in a situation where they want to continue doing things the "Apple" way but with such limited marketshare they can only focus on providing quality as well as being intuitive in everything they do.
I think people don't understand that they are a different kind of company. Sure they wish everyone were using Macs and that is the goal, but they really release quality products that run on a quality OS. They are not McDonald's and trying to sell 999 Billion 3" wafer-burgers to the masses. They are selling, for comparison, 5" Buffalo burgers with fresh tomatoes, iceburg lettuce, red onions to the people who really like quality products.
If everyone wanted to spend $7.99 on a good burger or had the time to get one over their 30 minute lunch break, I think they would. But people are generally cheap and lazy by nature and I think that is why Dell sells well and why eBay has gone bananas in this country. People look for bottom-of-the-barrel pricing on everything they buy practically.
Alpha samples of the MPC7457 and MPC7447 PowerPC processors are available today to selected customers. General market sampling is planned for March, with production expected to commence in Q4 2003. Suggested retail pricing for the MPC7457 at 1 GHz is expected to be $189 (USD) in quantities of 10,000.
Thanks, DaveGee.
I did actually find that press release at motorola.com. But it kind of puzzled me that it was 'expected' to be $189. It seemed wierd that no one really 'knew' what it was currently at the same website.
But I suppose it's a pretty good general idea, all the same. Can we assume that Apple buys with 'wholesale' pricing, as opposed to 'retail' pricing, though?
My opinion of apples biggest problems is that they don't advertise their computer line. They only advertise the ipod. They expect people to just walk in and to be comfortable with the computer that they had never heard of the maker. If apple would advertise they will see sales increse. They also need more specials. Dell always has a special up. When a special expires they come out with another one immeditly.
Comments
"No threads about how Apples cost more. We all know they cost more. We also know that Apple isn't keeping costs up for no reason, and no whining you do will make Macs cheaper."
Or, at least, assemble a sticky and then just dump the link to the sticky every time someone brings up a thread on this topic that has been visited many, many times before.
Originally posted by trailmaster308
Thats all great that you can run your organization on Mac's, but that doesn't help me. First, no I cannot port our DB's over. Currently they are running Oracle 8.1.6 on AIX via P690's, 4 to be exact. Not only will the vendor laugh at porting the backend over to mac but it would void our support, plus we have no problems whatsoever with it. AIX is bullet proof and there is no denying that. Secondly, our front-end apps are to large to do local installs and when we load updates I don't want to have to push these out to the workstations. So to solve that problem we use Metaframe XP, that way I only have to do updates to the servers and all the clients get them.
OK...but there's no real reason this stuff couldn't run on Macs. 90% of these "customized apps" that run in Windows or X11 are glorified databases.
The limitations you speak of are MONETARY limitations, not technical ones. Customized and/or cottage industry apps are expensive on any platform. They'll be even more expensive on a smaller platform like the Mac. Heck, porting front-end apps might even be more expensive than paying for a small army of techs, anti-virus software, the Microsoft update roulette, and high-dollar IBM server hardware. Maybe.
Originally posted by trailmaster308
Thats all great that you can run your organization on Mac's, but that doesn't help me. First, no I cannot port our DB's over. Currently they are running Oracle 8.1.6 on AIX via P690's, 4 to be exact. Not only will the vendor laugh at porting the backend over to mac but it would void our support, plus we have no problems whatsoever with it. AIX is bullet proof and there is no denying that. Secondly, our front-end apps are to large to do local installs and when we load updates I don't want to have to push these out to the workstations. So to solve that problem we use Metaframe XP, that way I only have to do updates to the servers and all the clients get them.
Also, you mention the Unix base to Mac OSX. I've been an AIX admin for the past 5yrs or so. I enjoy OSX, but it kills me when people see unix and assume that you can take any "unix" app and mount it/run it in OSX. This is not the case, so no I can't just port Unix based apps over. Heck I have the makefiles to the vmware console written for Redhat and can't get the dang thing to compile to X. The cost in trying to get apps moved over is too great to even think about.
I don't know why everyone always mentions citrix for mac. The only client available is the full blown ICA client. The majority of orgs are publishing apps in webpages, like we do. The footprint is so much smaller and you don't have to go through all the hassle of changing server names, god forbid, you have more than one server farm. Thats what is so wonderful about the web ica client. Guess what, no web ica client for mac. Just a way outdated ica client that was so 3 years ago. You do know that Metaframe is for only Wintel servers right?
Finding Nemo? How does they help me? Its a cute movie though.
There's a pretty obvious solution to your problem. Don't get Macs.
Obviously your business is running perfectly well as it is, so there's actually no reason to change.
There, problem solved.
Jimzip
Some new chip will come out that is better than any ppc or x86. Then the fall of commercial operating systems. Linux and unix will thrive with these new type of computer systems. And with all computer companies making the machine they will be relativly cheap.
thats just my wild prediction
Originally posted by ipodandimac
you own a 3.2 MHZ pc???? everybody look out! superfast pc on the loose!
its seems ironic to complain about apple's cost vs performance when your using a PC that's been outdated for about 20 years.
Actually, PCs were never that slow. The first IBM PC was 4.77 MHz I believe.
I don't see ANY of you guys on Apple's board of directors.
Apple's biggest problem is that no matter what they choose to do there's always somebody bitching about it.
Apple has vision - something that no other computer manufacturer out there has at the moment. This is the key to their survival. Apple is willing to risk trying out new ideas, where the other guys aren't.
WIMP GUI could have been a flop but it wasn't. The migration to PowerPC could have been a flop, but it wasn't. The migration to Mac OS X could have been a flop but it wasn't. iPod could have been a flop but it wasn't.
As far as I can see there's only one company pushing the envelope at the moment. If you don't want to pay to support their innovation then go buy a PC from Wallflower PC. Do you think all these other PC manufacturers spend so much on R&D? Do you think they are willing to rock the boat?
Or do you think they just sit around like rats fighting over the spilt crumbs?
Microsoft's idea of innovation is a ****ing talking paperclip for ****s sake! And the other big players are willing to take a back seat.
Everytime we buy an Apple product we fund Apple's vision? we are funding products that might only appear ten years down the line. It was the profit from biege G3s and iMacs that allowed Apple to bring iPod to market.
There are a lot of short sighted people with soapboxes on this board. Stop bitching about Apple and let them get on with their job.
Jimzip
Originally posted by trailmaster308
Thats all great that you can run your organization on Mac's, but that doesn't help me. First, no I cannot port our DB's over. Currently they are running Oracle 8.1.6 on AIX via P690's, 4 to be exact. Not only will the vendor laugh at porting the backend over to mac but it would void our support, plus we have no problems whatsoever with it. AIX is bullet proof and there is no denying that. Secondly, our front-end apps are to large to do local installs and when we load updates I don't want to have to push these out to the workstations. So to solve that problem we use Metaframe XP, that way I only have to do updates to the servers and all the clients get them.
Also, you mention the Unix base to Mac OSX. I've been an AIX admin for the past 5yrs or so. I enjoy OSX, but it kills me when people see unix and assume that you can take any "unix" app and mount it/run it in OSX. This is not the case, so no I can't just port Unix based apps over. Heck I have the makefiles to the vmware console written for Redhat and can't get the dang thing to compile to X. The cost in trying to get apps moved over is too great to even think about.
I don't know why everyone always mentions citrix for mac. The only client available is the full blown ICA client. The majority of orgs are publishing apps in webpages, like we do. The footprint is so much smaller and you don't have to go through all the hassle of changing server names, god forbid, you have more than one server farm. Thats what is so wonderful about the web ica client. Guess what, no web ica client for mac. Just a way outdated ica client that was so 3 years ago. You do know that Metaframe is for only Wintel servers right?
Finding Nemo? How does they help me? Its a cute movie though.
RE READ MY POST.
Your arugment to as I observed was that major Apps dont run on a mac.
My Arugument to you is that they do. WETA uses macs. ( ie the graphics for lord of the rings ) I also point to the fact that Macs are being adopted in the scientific community. Frankly as for your rant about databases I doubt you. Oracle DBs CAN and DO run on macs... Macs are evolving at a top level to enterprise machines just as wintel tries to evolve as a consumer focus. The majority of orgs ( and I should know here as I touch base with multinationals orgs CIO's & CEO's daily ) that publsih docs are in two formats PDF and html and that's the mac's strength - publishing. Most major Apps these days are thin client ie browser based and run on both mac pc and linux. If you not running a thin client then YOUR the one with the tech issue. Im NOT saying that macs are perfect no computer is but macs are a better choice for vertical market segments such as creative busines and soon scientific. We use a combination of Macs and PC's but time and time again its always the PC's that give my CTO and me all the grief.
As for finding nemo...
Pixar develops finding nemo on a mac also creating the Pixlet codec... better compression - hey look I can stream and compress video better... hmmm... YOU SAY YOU WORK FOR A HOSPITAL? DONT THEY RELY ON COMPANIES LIKE APPLE DEVELOPING IMAGING?
Look past the obvious. Apple biggest problem - wanabee detractors who dont realise that Apple doesn't have to be all things to all people. Sure Apple's got 5% Mrt share who cares is selling to businesses like mine who love their products get value and have money. Yep Apple is selective... but being the village slut gives you the reputation as a whore.
Now where did I want to go today? oh that right... to the Apple store
Originally posted by Amorph
That's not what I asked.
I asked if you'd priced a G4.
Last I checked, for the 7457, Motorola's asking $250 per CPU in lots of 10,000, in case you're wondering.
Amorph,
I went looking for 7457s in bulk on Google. I found some, but my pricing came out much less than $250 per CPU. I'm thinking that maybe I looked in the wrong place.
Can you please drop me a link of WHERE you found that bulk pricing?
Thx,
-Antithesis
Dammit, people. It's "probably". P R O B A B L Y. Probably.
As in "you probably should learn how to spell such a common, simple word".
Okay, I'm done...
-Antithesis
Originally posted by Antithesis
Shameless 'bump' while waiting for Amorph's response to pricing and links for the G4s.
-Antithesis
From a MOT press release dated Feb 2003:
Pricing and Availability
Alpha samples of the MPC7457 and MPC7447 PowerPC processors are available today to selected customers. General market sampling is planned for March, with production expected to commence in Q4 2003. Suggested retail pricing for the MPC7457 at 1 GHz is expected to be $189 (USD) in quantities of 10,000.
OK, not as bad as I remember reading, but still costlier than the 970 ($130-$150, according to some detective work by the Arsians).
Prollyis a cool word, I hope it replaces McSissy ProbablyPants. Words change as does prolly the future does too wouldn't you think?
Lighten up the fun with spelling is you can mess it up.
Originally posted by kraig911
Prolly Apple's biggest problem is that they are in a situation where they want to continue doing things the "Apple" way but with such limited marketshare they can only focus on providing quality as well as being intuitive in everything they do.
I think people don't understand that they are a different kind of company. Sure they wish everyone were using Macs and that is the goal, but they really release quality products that run on a quality OS. They are not McDonald's and trying to sell 999 Billion 3" wafer-burgers to the masses. They are selling, for comparison, 5" Buffalo burgers with fresh tomatoes, iceburg lettuce, red onions to the people who really like quality products.
If everyone wanted to spend $7.99 on a good burger or had the time to get one over their 30 minute lunch break, I think they would. But people are generally cheap and lazy by nature and I think that is why Dell sells well and why eBay has gone bananas in this country. People look for bottom-of-the-barrel pricing on everything they buy practically.
w00t 2 daa mutha!
Originally posted by DaveGee
From a MOT press release dated Feb 2003:
Pricing and Availability
Alpha samples of the MPC7457 and MPC7447 PowerPC processors are available today to selected customers. General market sampling is planned for March, with production expected to commence in Q4 2003. Suggested retail pricing for the MPC7457 at 1 GHz is expected to be $189 (USD) in quantities of 10,000.
Thanks, DaveGee.
I did actually find that press release at motorola.com. But it kind of puzzled me that it was 'expected' to be $189. It seemed wierd that no one really 'knew' what it was currently at the same website.
But I suppose it's a pretty good general idea, all the same. Can we assume that Apple buys with 'wholesale' pricing, as opposed to 'retail' pricing, though?
Thanks,
Antithesis