Unfortunately I don't know how it compares with the Nikon D70 in terms of features though - perhaps Eugene might chip in, as he knows a lot about these things .
Dave.
Pro-Nikon:
-ISO 800 and 1600 noise looks more like classic film grain than the splotchy noise patterns you get with the Digital Rebel.
-It's built better.
-It has more 'pro' features like a 1/500s flash sync and 1005 pixel metering system.
-It's not silver.
-Nikon is the Apple to Canon's Microsoft.
Con-Nikon:
-It's slightly more expensive.
-It has some kinks like the 'maze' moire artifacts that show up in the occasional everyday photo. This is not a big deal, but it bothers me a little. Also the color cast at high shutter speeds.
-It doesn't have an optional vertical grip...not very important unless you're a PJ.
-Nikon lenses are more expensive in general.
Best thing to do is rent both from a pro shop and test them yourself. Or if you can't afford the $70-100/day rental fee, then just go to the shop with your own memory card, snap photos on each and look at the results.
Eugene you seem to be in the know on the Nikon D70. A question, in a pinch while waiting to get some additional glass, can one use some of the old F3 AI-S non-automatic focus lenses? By use I guess I mean will you have any exposure metering.
Assuming I bought the Fuji FinePix S7000, or the Canon Digital Rebel, what are some good (not overly expensive) lenses (wide angle, etc.)?
Logan
The S7000 has a fixed lens.
I think both Canon and Nikon have some decent consumer-quality zooms in the 28-200mm range for ~$300 USD. Super-wide lenses are going to run you much more if you want Canon or Nikon branded glass.
I'm having trouble finding the S7000 for the 500 USD reported earlier in the thread. But I'm really having trouble finding a truly competitive Canadian camera retailer. Prices go from bad to ridiculous, and many of the online shops only sell in the US.
The thing about the S7000 versus the Digital Rebel is that they are two entirely different classes of camera.
If you can get an s7000 for 500 USD, it's the best camera (handling and image wise) that you can get for that price, MHO.
The Digital Rebel is a substantial step up from there. It's why you really can't recommend any of the so called "prosumer" cameras (828, A1/2, C8080, Pro1) selling for the equivalent of 899-1099 USD here in Canada. The Rebel and D70 just trounce them, even if you slap a budget 28-200/300 on them, you'd still get better results than anything from the 2/3rds cams.
So really, your last stop in Digital P&S before you really owe it to yourself to just get the DSLR should be something like the S7000, Canon G5, Oly C5060 or 5050, or Nikon 4500 or 5400. All are small but definitely not tiny (the Fuji being the largest), all have 4-6 MP, and a wide range of manual controls. The G5, 5400, and the C5060, go wider about 28-110 (or there abouts), while the S7000 goes a little longer, 35-210. I think the wider lenses could be quite useful, so consider your useage. If you start adding all sorts of converters, you might be better off with the DLSR.
I liked the S6900/602/7000 best (having used the C5050, and handled other spilt body Nikons) but I have big hands, and grew sort of biased to the comfortable operation of the camera.
With 5M cameras headed south of $500 and pro bodies coming out under a grand, how much longer does the consumer film camera market have? Sure you can pick them up for less than $100 (or lots less but you start to get into toys), but then you have to pay for film and processing.
Kodak has announced they will stop making slide projectors. The writing's on the wall.
Okay...I have disposable income, which probably won't happen again for a long time (did some diligent "eBay-ing" this past week -- getting rid of a useless PDA, old cameras). The allure of a new digicam is getting harder to resist, especially the D70 with the 18-70 lens package. This little camera seems to be quite the charmer of many pros and amateurs alike -- and Nikon finally got their flash system in order at the same time (on the digital end I mean -- balanced fill with the F5/F100 has always been wonderful).
Assuming I bought the Fuji FinePix S7000, or the Canon Digital Rebel, what are some good (not overly expensive) lenses (wide angle, etc.)?
Logan
A good and not overly expensive lens. Something we all hope for. The problem is that you can't shop for lenses just on the paper specs. You need to either try them yourselves or find a site that tests them thoroughly.
If you google a particular lens you can sometimes find sites that have reviewed them. I haven't seen a really good site which compares a wide range of lenses.
Zoom lenses are particularly hard to evaluate because they have to be tested across a range of focal lengths and apertures. Some manufacturers publish MTF curves which helps.
For the Digital Rebel the Canon 28-135mm IS is a very good lens. Price is about $500.
Woo-hoo!! Just got the D70 with 18-70 AF-S lens kit for $1269 (with ground shipping)!! If anyone else is looking for these, don't seek the prize at eBay. I can't believe these people trying to pawn off these things for over $1300. I'll say where I got mine as soon as I get shipping confirmation , but for those looking -- CDW is supposed to have them in stock beginning today for under $1299.
Reading all the reviews and complaints and lauds about this body, I think it will serve well for a long time depending on how well Nikon physically constructed it compared to the F5-based D1s. I think it will be a perfect travel camera for the trip to Germany next fall, though.
Woo-hoo!! Just got the D70 with 18-70 AF-S lens kit for $1269 (with ground shipping)!! If anyone else is looking for these, don't seek the prize at eBay. I can't believe these people trying to pawn off these things for over $1300. I'll say where I got mine as soon as I get shipping confirmation , but for those looking -- CDW is supposed to have them in stock beginning today for under $1299.
Reading all the reviews and complaints and lauds about this body, I think it will serve well for a long time depending on how well Nikon physically constructed it compared to the F5-based D1s. I think it will be a perfect travel camera for the trip to Germany next fall, though.
So where did you get it? I'm still struggling with the d70/digital rebel dilemma. Right now, the digital rebel is about $900 with lens. Unfortunately, it's from Circuit City, who I hate, and I'd have to pay tax. blah. I think I'd be very happy with either one but I need to decide.....
Bad comparison Eugene. In size perhaps, but Canon at the contrary of Nikon is a very innovative company : Image Stabilisation, CMOS sensor ( i don't say it's beter than CCD, just they go their way), first appearance of USM in consumer lenses, fluorite lenses, diffractive optics ...
Anyway the D70 is a fine camera. The moire is more important than the one of the Drebel, but not a real issue in 99 % of the shots. This is a real nice camera.
The Drebel will be produced in black for the japonese market.
Anyway i just recieved my canon 10D : i love it. Stil waiting for my 24-70 2,8 L zoom, and for my 70-300 DO ( i dont expect to recieve this one soon)
Bad comparison Eugene. In size perhaps, but Canon at the contrary of Nikon is a very innovative company : Image Stabilisation, CMOS sensor ( i don't say it's beter than CCD, just they go their way), first appearance of USM in consumer lenses, fluorite lenses, diffractive optics ...
Are you saying Microsoft isn't innovative?
It's a perfectly valid comparison. The fact is Canon chooses volume over quality. Look at their Powershot line-up and how frequently they turn-over with new models.
what does interpolated mean in a digital camera? I saw a digital camer that had a 3.3 megapixel rating, but it takes 6.6 megapixel pictures when interpolated.
That's probably Fuji and their "Super CCD." Supposedly, because of the shape of each pixel....I don't know. It's nonsense. You would be best to use the camera in the standard, downsampled mode. The pictures at the interpolated levels stink.
Just a heads up for people following this thread: the canon digital rebel has dropped to $899 on amazon (including the lens). I'm going to get it once my bankone amazon gift certificates get here....
BTW, if you don't already have one, you should definitely get one of these cards. You get $30 off your first amazon purchase plus $25 amazon g.c's for every $2500 you spend. Amazon purchases get you triple points. So, you'd effectively get this camera with lens for $845 ($30 off plus a $25 gift certificate down the road just from this purchase). Not a bad deal and a great card to have if you use amazon often (like I do).
Comments
Originally posted by Dave Abrey
torifile,
How about the Canon 300D / Digital Rebel?
<snip>
Unfortunately I don't know how it compares with the Nikon D70 in terms of features though - perhaps Eugene might chip in, as he knows a lot about these things
Dave.
Pro-Nikon:
-ISO 800 and 1600 noise looks more like classic film grain than the splotchy noise patterns you get with the Digital Rebel.
-It's built better.
-It has more 'pro' features like a 1/500s flash sync and 1005 pixel metering system.
-It's not silver.
-Nikon is the Apple to Canon's Microsoft.
Con-Nikon:
-It's slightly more expensive.
-It has some kinks like the 'maze' moire artifacts that show up in the occasional everyday photo. This is not a big deal, but it bothers me a little. Also the color cast at high shutter speeds.
-It doesn't have an optional vertical grip...not very important unless you're a PJ.
-Nikon lenses are more expensive in general.
Best thing to do is rent both from a pro shop and test them yourself. Or if you can't afford the $70-100/day rental fee, then just go to the shop with your own memory card, snap photos on each and look at the results.
Sorry for the dumb question but I'm curious.
YES, you can use it.
Logan
Originally posted by Logan
Assuming I bought the Fuji FinePix S7000, or the Canon Digital Rebel, what are some good (not overly expensive) lenses (wide angle, etc.)?
Logan
The S7000 has a fixed lens.
I think both Canon and Nikon have some decent consumer-quality zooms in the 28-200mm range for ~$300 USD. Super-wide lenses are going to run you much more if you want Canon or Nikon branded glass.
The thing about the S7000 versus the Digital Rebel is that they are two entirely different classes of camera.
If you can get an s7000 for 500 USD, it's the best camera (handling and image wise) that you can get for that price, MHO.
The Digital Rebel is a substantial step up from there. It's why you really can't recommend any of the so called "prosumer" cameras (828, A1/2, C8080, Pro1) selling for the equivalent of 899-1099 USD here in Canada. The Rebel and D70 just trounce them, even if you slap a budget 28-200/300 on them, you'd still get better results than anything from the 2/3rds cams.
So really, your last stop in Digital P&S before you really owe it to yourself to just get the DSLR should be something like the S7000, Canon G5, Oly C5060 or 5050, or Nikon 4500 or 5400. All are small but definitely not tiny (the Fuji being the largest), all have 4-6 MP, and a wide range of manual controls. The G5, 5400, and the C5060, go wider about 28-110 (or there abouts), while the S7000 goes a little longer, 35-210. I think the wider lenses could be quite useful, so consider your useage. If you start adding all sorts of converters, you might be better off with the DLSR.
I liked the S6900/602/7000 best (having used the C5050, and handled other spilt body Nikons) but I have big hands, and grew sort of biased to the comfortable operation of the camera.
With 5M cameras headed south of $500 and pro bodies coming out under a grand, how much longer does the consumer film camera market have? Sure you can pick them up for less than $100 (or lots less but you start to get into toys), but then you have to pay for film and processing.
Kodak has announced they will stop making slide projectors. The writing's on the wall.
Has anybody seen these in stock anywhere?
Originally posted by Logan
Assuming I bought the Fuji FinePix S7000, or the Canon Digital Rebel, what are some good (not overly expensive) lenses (wide angle, etc.)?
Logan
A good and not overly expensive lens. Something we all hope for. The problem is that you can't shop for lenses just on the paper specs. You need to either try them yourselves or find a site that tests them thoroughly.
If you google a particular lens you can sometimes find sites that have reviewed them. I haven't seen a really good site which compares a wide range of lenses.
Zoom lenses are particularly hard to evaluate because they have to be tested across a range of focal lengths and apertures. Some manufacturers publish MTF curves which helps.
For the Digital Rebel the Canon 28-135mm IS is a very good lens. Price is about $500.
Reading all the reviews and complaints and lauds about this body, I think it will serve well for a long time depending on how well Nikon physically constructed it compared to the F5-based D1s. I think it will be a perfect travel camera for the trip to Germany next fall, though.
Originally posted by fred_lj
Woo-hoo!! Just got the D70 with 18-70 AF-S lens kit for $1269 (with ground shipping)!! If anyone else is looking for these, don't seek the prize at eBay. I can't believe these people trying to pawn off these things for over $1300. I'll say where I got mine as soon as I get shipping confirmation
Reading all the reviews and complaints and lauds about this body, I think it will serve well for a long time depending on how well Nikon physically constructed it compared to the F5-based D1s. I think it will be a perfect travel camera for the trip to Germany next fall, though.
So where did you get it? I'm still struggling with the d70/digital rebel dilemma. Right now, the digital rebel is about $900 with lens. Unfortunately, it's from Circuit City, who I hate, and I'd have to pay tax. blah. I think I'd be very happy with either one but I need to decide.....
Originally posted by Eugene
-Nikon is the Apple to Canon's Microsoft.
Bad comparison Eugene. In size perhaps, but Canon at the contrary of Nikon is a very innovative company : Image Stabilisation, CMOS sensor ( i don't say it's beter than CCD, just they go their way), first appearance of USM in consumer lenses, fluorite lenses, diffractive optics ...
Anyway the D70 is a fine camera. The moire is more important than the one of the Drebel, but not a real issue in 99 % of the shots. This is a real nice camera.
The Drebel will be produced in black for the japonese market.
Anyway i just recieved my canon 10D : i love it. Stil waiting for my 24-70 2,8 L zoom, and for my 70-300 DO ( i dont expect to recieve this one soon)
They probably have more in stock, but the owner acted like they were "going fast." A ploy probably nonetheless, but I bought the camera anyway.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Bad comparison Eugene. In size perhaps, but Canon at the contrary of Nikon is a very innovative company : Image Stabilisation, CMOS sensor ( i don't say it's beter than CCD, just they go their way), first appearance of USM in consumer lenses, fluorite lenses, diffractive optics ...
Are you saying Microsoft isn't innovative?
It's a perfectly valid comparison. The fact is Canon chooses volume over quality. Look at their Powershot line-up and how frequently they turn-over with new models.
Originally posted by fred_lj
The pictures at the interpolated levels stink.
All consumer digital cameras (except for a couple) use very drastic interpolation though.
BTW, if you don't already have one, you should definitely get one of these cards. You get $30 off your first amazon purchase plus $25 amazon g.c's for every $2500 you spend. Amazon purchases get you triple points. So, you'd effectively get this camera with lens for $845 ($30 off plus a $25 gift certificate down the road just from this purchase). Not a bad deal and a great card to have if you use amazon often (like I do).