Why aren't the G5s selling?
http://www.drunkenbatman.com/drunken...es/000253.html
The above URL takes you to a very well written article IMO. Perhaps because it expresses some of my own thoughts on the subject. The G5's were supposed to be the saviors of the Apple desktop. Apparently they haven't been. Why?
My opinion, GREED. Apple was banking on the pent up demand for a real performance desktop and they figured they could soak the early adaptors and make a killing. They maybe would have done just that if they could have actually delivered the product when the emotions were high. Apple depends too much on the emotion of the buyer. Emotion is not sustainable. They price products based on the amount of money they want to make rather than what the products are actually worth based on the market. There are not that many people willing to ignore what the product is worth, especially after the emotion has died down. The lack of substantive updates is bad, but the lack of price drops is worse. When they were first released, they were a bit expensive. Four months into it, they were overpriced. Nine months into it, they are outrageous. No matter how much emotion you generate with a product announcement, you must give the customer a genuine reason to buy the product as well as the ability to do it. Otherwise, when the emotion wears off, you end up with a lot of product sitting stagnate in the channel and bulletin boards filled with posts like this.
So tell me, why are the 5's not selling?
The above URL takes you to a very well written article IMO. Perhaps because it expresses some of my own thoughts on the subject. The G5's were supposed to be the saviors of the Apple desktop. Apparently they haven't been. Why?
My opinion, GREED. Apple was banking on the pent up demand for a real performance desktop and they figured they could soak the early adaptors and make a killing. They maybe would have done just that if they could have actually delivered the product when the emotions were high. Apple depends too much on the emotion of the buyer. Emotion is not sustainable. They price products based on the amount of money they want to make rather than what the products are actually worth based on the market. There are not that many people willing to ignore what the product is worth, especially after the emotion has died down. The lack of substantive updates is bad, but the lack of price drops is worse. When they were first released, they were a bit expensive. Four months into it, they were overpriced. Nine months into it, they are outrageous. No matter how much emotion you generate with a product announcement, you must give the customer a genuine reason to buy the product as well as the ability to do it. Otherwise, when the emotion wears off, you end up with a lot of product sitting stagnate in the channel and bulletin boards filled with posts like this.
So tell me, why are the 5's not selling?
Comments
The G5s are selling in the same numbers as the G4 and that is not astonishing to me. Apples run rate on Powermacs seems to be 200+ a qtr initially and then it tapers off. Pent up demand was merely but a hypothesis from speculators.
Pro's will buy what they need, begrudlingly at times, when they have to.
I think the G5s are expensive. But that's in the context of what a consumer thinks. Pro's do not think of purchase prices but rather ROI. Therefore they will most likely purchase as soon as they can justify it financially.
For Apple to increase G5 sales substantially they need to increase marketshare in defined areas. Their best hope is to keep the platform strong in Digital Audio/Video and push into the Enterprise. The only way to increase sales is to increase the amount of users that need your product.
Originally posted by Fluffy
Meh. Much hand ringing, little real substance. The fact is the G5 cost less than an equivalent Dell when it was released..... and it still costs less. The pricing is not outrageous, they are still good deals for what you get. We'll see on wednesday how bad sales were this quarter, but I suspect they were still reasonable despite the lack of updates.
true but the differance, there have been speed bumps on the dells in the past 9 months. not sure how the new ones stack up but they must be closer if not dare i say it past the g5 in high end situations.
Jobs being outsourced/companies buying PCs to cut costs...
Uncertainty? i.e. why buy a new Mac if you aren't sure if you'll still have clients/a job/employees.
G4 Macs are pretty much all a typical user needs?
Some possibilities.
Those are, btw, all my reasons. hell, I never bought G4s either.
People are cheap/frugal or scared.
For me, price isn't the issue. They are reasonably priced to me. However I can eternally find better uses for that cash until I absolutely need to upgrade.
Originally posted by a_greer
true but the differance, there have been speed bumps on the dells in the past 9 months.
Barely. The Xeon was bumped from 3.06 GHz last summer to a 3.2 GHz today... a whopping 5% speed bump. And the older 3.06 is still $800 more expensive than the Dual 2.0 G5.
are they even hurting that bad?
back in the '90s steve returned and brought fourth the real savior of apple...THE IMAC and the forward thinking g3 b&w
what apple needs now is consistancy, keep what they have as a market base and use itunes and ipod to expand it.
but I will state again what I have said before the only way that apple is going to get a huge boost in the lucrative home/home office market is to forget the aio modle of the imac (keep the emac, great for education and libararies) make a reasonable micro or mini tower with a G5 and to cut costs: ram limit == 2 gig and maybe 1 pcix slot and a plactic enclosure unless the metal one is cheaper and throw in a decent AGP graphics card, say a radion 9200, not a smoker but cheap and reasonable for everyday use. and the key element: a base price of <$600
Not everyone wants a pro desktop. Not everyone wants a desktop of any description, now that laptops have hit a sweet spot in price/performance/portability. The G5 is handily beating the PMG4's numbers, reaching into markets that never considered the PMG4, etc. But a lot of professionals who'd have bought PowerMacs a few years ago are looking at PowerBooks. That's a plain fact. Others are looking at iMacs and even eMacs, since those are powerful enough to handle tasks that required PowerMacs only a few years ago, cheaper, and more compact.
There is no evidence that the PMG5 is selling poorly. We'll know for sure when Apple releases their financials in a few days, but so far so good. The sales mix has been consistently skewed toward the high end of the PowerMac range, which completely reverses the trend with the G4 and which deflates your argument about price: The people who bought PMG5s overwhelmingly preferred the most expensive ones. How can that possibly indicate that the line is priced too high? But even if the PowerMac continues to be a strong seller, it's not going to "save Apple." No one product is going to save Apple. They need to have a strong lineup all around, and do as well as they can on as many fronts as they can, to appeal to as many people as they can. That's what should make the next 12 months or so especially interesting. Apple has these new, high-performance architectures to play with, and I'm looking forward to see how they're used to fill out the product line.
Originally posted by a_greer
true but the differance, there have been speed bumps on the dells in the past 9 months. not sure how the new ones stack up but they must be closer if not dare i say it past the g5 in high end situations.
Uh, it'll stay equal until Dell finally moves completely over to AMD64, and then we're in trouble. But remember...Dual 3.0's this summer, probably with pimpin GPU's, and if we get an upgrade in April, we'll be seeing Dual 1.8 G5s for under $2,000. That's an insanely great price.
Originally posted by Placebo
Uh, it'll stay equal until Dell finally moves completely over to AMD64, and then we're in trouble. But remember...Dual 3.0's this summer, probably with pimpin GPU's, and if we get an upgrade in April, we'll be seeing Dual 1.8 G5s for under $2,000. That's an insanely great price.
dual 1.8 for<2000$!! Sign me up, I will tahe the loan please.
A wise British businessman said, some 50 years ago (I can name him if anybody wants to know)
"Costs walk in on two feet".
I agree.
The more people, the more interactions, the more meetings, the slower the decisions, the more risk-averse. Sure you make mistakes but, IMHO, no evidence that mistakes are less likely in a business with more than the minimum of people.
BTW, the number of interactions (and therefore wasted time) rises with people numbers, not linearly but geometrically.
I advise CEO's - if business grows, give your existing people every (proven) productivity-enhancing device you can afford before adding to your payroll. And regularly update their training. Most businesses are cyclic. When downturns come - and they will - the fewer people you have, the less pain and costs of layoffs.
Sounds hard but in the long run better for everyone.
My two cents' worth after more than 50 years in business.
I have worked many years in Switzerland, where these ideas are often applied. A recent poll shows that job satisfaction, across all age levels and job ranges, is higher here than anywhere else in Europe. Cannot speak for the USA but anecdotes have me wondering whether it's as good there. Of course, cultural differences play a large part too.
In case you think I am anti-American, I worked many years for Kimberly-Clark in the UK. One of the most satisfying and challenging periods of my whole carreer.
Peace
eric j
Originally posted by eric j
Re. people and jobs:
A wise British businessman said, some 50 years ago (I can name him if anybody wants to know)
"Costs walk in on two feet".
I agree.
The more people, the more interactions, the more meetings, the slower the decisions, the more risk-averse. Sure you make mistakes but, IMHO, no evidence that mistakes are less likely in a business with more than the minimum of people.
BTW, the number of interactions (and therefore wasted time) rises with people numbers, not linearly but geometrically.
I advise CEO's - if business grows, give your existing people every (proven) productivity-enhancing device you can afford before adding to your payroll. And regularly update their training. Most businesses are cyclic. When downturns come - and they will - the fewer people you have, the less pain and costs of layoffs.
Sounds hard but in the long run better for everyone.
My two cents' worth after more than 50 years in business.
I have worked many years in Switzerland, where these ideas are often applied. A recent poll shows that job satisfaction, across all age levels and job ranges, is higher here than anywhere else in Europe. Cannot speak for the USA but anecdotes have me wondering whether it's as good there. Of course, cultural differences play a large part too.
In case you think I am anti-American, I worked many years for Kimberly-Clark in the UK. One of the most satisfying and challenging periods of my whole carreer.
Peace
eric j
and this related to g5s selling how?
Anyway, I for one am hoping that tomorrows conference call brings some clear indication of where Apple plans to head in the future with the powermacs and the rest of the lineup.
I think this quarter might end up being a bit of a disappointment.
Understand your question.
I was responding to a comment by :
"johnq
Economy sucks? High unemployment/no new jobs?
Jobs being outsourced/companies buying PCs to cut costs...
Uncertainty? i.e. why buy a new Mac if you aren't sure if you'll still have clients/a job/employees."
Peace
eric j
Originally posted by Aquatic
because they are $3000 for a good set up with monitor and the same PC is $400. Consumers want cheap desktops that are NOT all-in-one. Apple has been ****ing this up for almost a decade now. DUUUUH get with the program. The iMac was cool when it was released but we need a CHEAP tower. The G5 blows any PC away but it's too much for most people who want a nice desktop but want to pick their own monitor, mostly to save money. The Cube was a perfect idea but the industrial design sucked (you have to flip it over to plug something in!? Stupid!) and it was priced to high. Now that I think about it, a G5 Cube is a Good Idea?.
Uhm...400 dollars...that is a joke. **** man, I'm a Mac user which means I spent nearly half that already on the iTunes Music Store!
My suggestion: Apple needs to improve it's notebook displays and make a small single-processor G5 desktop.
Fact 1: Apple Japan's revenue and unit sales are slipping.
Fact 2: Japan is (was until recently?) the #2 market for Apple.
Fact 3: Case Size is crucial here. Imagine half of U.S.'s population crammed in an area which is smaller than California and most of that area are mountains with some volcanos.
Fact 4: If you go to any computer store in Tokyo you will notice that 70% of the sales floor are notebooks and the remaining are microtowers (the ones with half-height PCI slots). Apple is the only manufacturer with a full-size tower (aside from the occasional DELL sold in the business area). I don't think it sells well. I noticed that the G5 didn't fit on top of any of the computer desks sold at my local computer store. It was too big.
Fact 5: Notebook sales are increasing every year. Even Steve Jobs admitted that notebooks are the new desktops.
Fact 6: Apple notebooks have the worst LCD displays sold in Japan.
Fact 7: Apple notebooks are the only notebooks in it's price range that does not have a TV tuner and DVR capability built-in. Remember that space is at a premium here. Many people use computers as a TV set as well.
Fact 8: Sherlock is worthless here (no Japan plug-ins). There is no ITMS outside of U.S. None of the phones in Japan support bluetooth so forget about iSync. There is only one calendar download available for iCal at Apple's site. Only recently, have we gained the capability to order prints through iPhoto. The digital hub thing is only partially implemented in this country.
Given the facts mentioned above Apple really needs to rethink it's Japan strategy. In the pre-Jobs days, Apple used to make variations of Macs specifically catered to Japan. I think that it may be time to start doing it again. Unless of course, Steve doesn't care about it's #2 market. Which is a scary thought because if this is how Apple treats its #2 market, how is the rest of the world treated?
If Apple continues to think only in terms of U.S., it is only a matter of time before Apple's worldwide marketshare becomes less than 1%. I'm sure that all the folks posting from within U.S. won't care about what I'm saying. But as long as Apple remains a global company, it needs to address these things.
Here is one possible idea that I have mentioned before with little response: Make a minitower using the Powerbook 12". Essentially a powerbook minus built-in display, keyboard, and battery. Add wireless keyboard and mouse. Price around $1100.00 or even bundle it with 17" Studio Display and price it around 1600.00.
Originally posted by BeigeUser
My suggestion: Apple needs to improve it's notebook displays and make a small single-processor G5 desktop.
Fact 1: Apple Japan's revenue and unit sales are slipping.
Fact 2: Japan is (was until recently?) the #2 market for Apple.
Fact 3: Case Size is crucial here. Imagine half of U.S.'s population crammed in an area which is smaller than California and most of that area are mountains with some volcanos.
Fact 4: If you go to any computer store in Tokyo you will notice that 70% of the sales floor are notebooks and the remaining are microtowers (the ones with half-height PCI slots). Apple is the only manufacturer with a full-size tower (aside from the occasional DELL sold in the business area). I don't think it sells well. I noticed that the G5 didn't fit on top of any of the computer desks sold at my local computer store. It was too big.
Fact 5: Notebook sales are increasing every year. Even Steve Jobs admitted that notebooks are the new desktops.
OK, question: Are AIOs completely out of the running here, despite the fact that they're space efficient? Obviously they are on the PC side, but that's because PC AIOs suck. I don't consider them relevant to the question. But sticking with Apple, and being mindful of the fact that a notebook is an AIO, why would a Japanese consumer prefer a minitower to a desktop AIO?
Fact 6: Apple notebooks have the worst LCD displays sold in Japan.
Ouch. OK, something to work on. Is this in terms of brightness? Contrast ratio? Color fidelity? Viewable angle? All of the above? Per the conference call, LCD prices are down, so Apple has some room to maneuver here.
I'll turn the question around: Who has the best displays? Is it because of a proprietary technology? Does anyone else license that technology?
Fact 7: Apple notebooks are the only notebooks in it's price range that does not have a TV tuner and DVR capability built-in. Remember that space is at a premium here. Many people use computers as a TV set as well.
This is interesting because neither capability would cost much to add. Apple could probably do 90% of the work in software. That would make it easier for them to, say, offer a Japan-specific software bundle instead of a Japan-specific piece of hardware.
Fact 8: Sherlock is worthless here (no Japan plug-ins). There is no ITMS outside of U.S. None of the phones in Japan support bluetooth so forget about iSync. There is only one calendar download available for iCal at Apple's site. Only recently, have we gained the capability to order prints through iPhoto. The digital hub thing is only partially implemented in this country.
A familiar refrain, alas.
Any idea as to why Bluetooth is a non-starter there? BTW, you can use iSync with USB and FireWire as well...
Given the facts mentioned above Apple really needs to rethink it's Japan strategy. In the pre-Jobs days, Apple used to make variations of Macs specifically catered to Japan. I think that it may be time to start doing it again. Unless of course, Steve doesn't care about it's #2 market. Which is a scary thought because if this is how Apple treats its #2 market, how is the rest of the world treated?
Apple lost money on the 2400/2400c, if that's what you're thinking of. They might be holding out for a way to support Japan profitably. One thing to keep in mind is the gulf between #1 and #2 in the rankings here: The US alone accounts for almost 50% of Apple's sales. That dwarfs Japan in terms of sheer size, and sheer size is what actually matters here.
I don't think any of this really accounts for the sudden plunge, though. The last two bullet points in your argument are longstanding issues, not recent developments, and Apple's market share in Japan was actually improving before this quarter. So I guess I'm looking for something a little more acute, like the laptops falling behind.
(I'm aware that Apple Store Ginza sales were not included in the market share report, but if that one store accounted for 20% of Japanese sales I'll eat my hat.)
If Apple continues to think only in terms of U.S., it is only a matter of time before Apple's worldwide marketshare becomes less than 1%. I'm sure that all the folks posting from within U.S. won't care about what I'm saying. But as long as Apple remains a global company, it needs to address these things.
Apple's actually been improving their worldwide presence, which is why the plunge in Japan is so strange. I'm all for a greater international presence. If the US becomes 25% of the market, or less, and Apple's thriving, I'm happy.
Here is one possible idea that I have mentioned before with little response: Make a minitower using the Powerbook 12". Essentially a powerbook minus built-in display, keyboard, and battery. Add wireless keyboard and mouse. Price around $1100.00 or even bundle it with 17" Studio Display and price it around 1600.00.
More directly, could it be that the PowerBook 12" is a bit too pudgy and a bit too weak-screened to take off like it should? I imagine that a thinner, sharper PB 12" would fly off the shelves in Japan.
I know nothing about the Japanese market but I would like to congratulate you on your rational analysis of Apple's position there (even if it's just one person's view, a reasoned argunent like this is a pleasure to read).
Peace
eric j