Kennedy was a Roman Catholic. I'm sure he didn't have Allah in mind when he referred to God.
Well, at least he didn't have the shortsightedness to refer explicitly to the Christian faith.
Quote:
Atheist terrorist? Let's see: Joe Stalin, Pol Pot, Castro, Mao, Lenin, just to name a few.
I asked are there any terrorist atheist groups out there.....all those characters in your list are dead, barring Castro. And as far as I know, he is not listed by the FBI as the leader or member of any terrorist group. The vast majority of terror groups consist of people of faith, or people using terror to promote some (usually fundamentalist) religious cause.
1. It would have been far easier to launch a "Christian States of America" when the Puritans were large and in charge.
Wel...I'm taking a Native American Anthro class and that's kind of what they did... Did you know in King Phillip's War, which you probably aren't familiar with, more Americans were killed than during the Civil War or World Wars? Many times over in fact! Just thousands, that number isn't impressive, but it was the worst war for New England. And it was because Puritans were hypocritical, intolerant, racist, assholes.
Did you know in King Phillip's War, which you probably aren't familiar with, more Americans were killed than during the Civil War or World Wars? Many times over in fact!
I'm going to need a link to believe that. The claim seems unbelievable, knowing the kind of numbers that died in WWII and the US Civil War.
That Kennedy quote does not mention Christianity, the Bible, or Jesus. The sole religious reference is "God"... so nobody of any faith is offended, or left out. And thats the way it should be. For Atheists, the "God" references are excess baggage anyway: the sentiments are no less valid without God.
So you're okay with leaving "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and "In God We Trust" on U.S. money?
Kennedy was a Roman Catholic. I'm sure he didn't have Allah in mind when he referred to God.
Atheist terrorist? Let's see: ... Lenin, just to name a few.
This man was emphatically not a terrorist. Off topic, forgive please, but Lenin wasn't no terrorist. Disagree with him until you're blue in the face but don't diminish him by calling him a terrorist. He wasn't.
Kennedy was a Roman Catholic. I'm sure he didn't have Allah in mind when he referred to God.
Atheist terrorist? ... Castro ...
Come to think of it, this man isn't a terrorist either. Not big on human rights, I grant you. A repressive censor, I admit. But you're stretching it to call the guy a 'terrorist'. I'm trying to compare him to ETA, the IRA, the Tamil Tigers and Hamas, whose actions, aims and methods define what everyone alive on the planet understands by the word 'terrorist', and for the life of me I can't remember the last time he blew up a train, department store or pizza restaurant. He's not militating for the overthrow of anyone or anything but trying to kill and terrify strangers.
So you're okay with leaving "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and "In God We Trust" on U.S. money?
Like you said, nobody should be offended.
Frank, Kennedy's speech was a speech, not the law of the land. The First Amendment implies freedom of religion, which in turn implies freedom FROM religion, which in turn implies that the peoples' representative government is not allied to religion as well.
The Pledge of Allegiance and U.S. money should not have references to God on them. In my view, it's unconstitutional.
Oh yea, here's to the crazy ones. Enough hatred and unatural fear of Christians---this isn't sane.
I only fear people who are trying to impose a Christian agenda on others.
How much of this stuff that I brought up earlier describes you?
Quote:
Public prayer back in public schools? Check.
Religious oaths for public office? Check.
Reinstitute old sodomy laws, and bump up the penalties? Check.
Outlaw abortion, absolutely no exceptions, and sentence doctors who perform abortions to death? Check.
End all stem cell research. Check.
Eliminate all government financial and medical assistance, hoping to make the poor and the elderly rely on religious charities? Check.
Ban evolution from the classroom, maybe even replace it with Creationism. Check.
Bring back anti-porn laws, First Amendment be damned, with a vengeance? Check.
Make blasphemy a crime? Wouldn't put it past them.
If any of this does describe you, especially the more extreme portions, I definitely have reason to fear you gaining enough political clout to implement any of it.
Even if there is insufficient political power to implement such an agenda, it makes me sad and angry that there are people who conflate this sort of agenda with chest-thumping patriotism, while imagining themselves as True Americans and Defenders of Freedom.
Falwell's "Liberty University" is a terribly misnamed institution, an institution which hopes to turn out as many people ready to foist an extreme Christian agenda on the rest of us as it can. Gotta love this quote from their Law School page:
Quote:
In the Middle Ages they had convictions, where we moderns today have only opinions, and it takes more than opinions to build a Gothic cathedral.
-- Heinrich Heine
Ah, the good ol' Middle Ages! Those were the days!
If I were terribly worried, I'd be building myself a bunker rather than planning to remodel my kitchen.
Quote:
Now, if these retrograde mediaevophiles were, say, in Egypt rather than in the U.S.A., and say, Muslim rather than Christian, you'd be hailing them as moderates!
So relax.
I'd rather not have to apply such low standards to obtain comfort. \
I'm really more worried about the occasional stealth nutcase slipping into a position of real power. I sometimes find myself wondering if George Bush is such a person.
The problem is that I'm not sure what to make of Bush's version of Christianity. Is it sincere, or is it pandering? Even if it is pandering, how much will he push the Christian agenda, especially when it comes to appointing judges, to "appeal to his base"?
If he is sincere, is he sincere in a literalist Romans 13 kind of way? If what some people say is correct, Bush actually believes he's God's choice for the job, and that he's there to do God's work. I can't help but find that a bit scary. Remembering the 2000 election, there was something in the way Bush reacted to the first reports that he'd lost Florida that seemed to me like more than mere disappointment or anger, but "No, this isn't the way it's supposed to be!" shock and denial.
I worry about how far Bush might go to keep himself in power if he begins to fear that his position is at risk. This isn't a big worry to me, but I have to confess that such fears enter my mind, and I can't easily dismiss them as totally unfounded.
How much of this stuff that I brought up earlier describes you?
If........I definitely have reason to fear you gaining enough political clout to implement any of it.
Be afriad shetline! The Christians are coming to get you!
Practiced Atheism will not hurt you, self abuse will not hurt you, powermad politicians---beholden to no one--will not hurt you, and heavens! A belief system that inculdes no inherent rights for mankind except what feels right at the end of a gun or cock will not hurt you.
Well, maybe not you....I gotta go, I've got some bathroom pornography to show my 7 year-old daughter.
(porn for my daughter is okay---let's see how okay this photo of a legal act is)
Be afriad shetline! The Christians are coming to get you!
Practiced Atheism will not hurt you, self abuse will not hurt you, powermad politicians---beholden to no one--will not hurt you, and heavens! A belief system that inculdes no inherent rights for mankind except what feels right at the end of a gun or cock will not hurt you.
So, you're telling me that I'm not wrong about what I expect a Christian agenda would be like, that I'm only wrong to worry about it? That I should sit back and relax because, really, it'll be for my own good? Just wait, even hope, for the good, kindly (and certainly not power mad!) Christians to take control, bathing me with God-given rights, delivered by their God-given authority, to make my life better and to save me from myself?
I'm really more worried about the occasional stealth nutcase slipping into a position of real power. I sometimes find myself wondering if George Bush is such a person.
The problem is that I'm not sure what to make of Bush's version of Christianity. Is it sincere, or is it pandering? Even if it is pandering, how much will he push the Christian agenda, especially when it comes to appointing judges, to "appeal to his base"?
But is Bush really a Christian?
here are some issues, courtesy of "religiousleft":
Bush On Public Prayer:
When a California federal appeals court found that including the words "under God" in the Pledge of Alliegance was an unconstitutional endorsement of religion, White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said President Bush believes the ruling is "ridiculous." (CNN.com, June 27, 2002)
( In spite of his secular role in a country with a plurality of religions) By proclamation of Governor George W. Bush, 10 June 2000 was 'Jesus Day' in Texas. (Snopes.com)
Jesus on Public Prayer:
(Matthew 6:4-6) And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
*********
Bush on Forgiveness:
Bush indicated that he was running out of patience. Asked if he planned to set an ultimatum for Saddam's compliance, Bush suggested that would be pointless, like extending "another, another, another last chance." (CBS News, Feb 18, 2003)
Jesus on Forgiveness:
Matthew 18:22) Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
*********
Bush on Mercy:
In an interview with Talk magazine, Bush imitated (Karla Faye) Tucker's appeal for him to spare her life - pursing his lips, squinting his eyes, and in a squeaky voice saying, "Please don't kill me." (Wayne Madsen, CounterPunch.org)
Jesus on Mercy:
(Luke 6) Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
**********
Bush on Good and Evil:
Bush referred to Iran, Iraq and North Korea as an "axis of evil". (State of the Union Address, 2002)
--repeatedly refers to struggle between good and evil, always casting the actions of the United States as "good" "...there's power, wonder-working power, in the goodness and idealism and faith of the American people." (State of the Union Address, 2003)
Jesus on Good and Evil:
(Matthew 7)"Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
( Mark 10:18 ) "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good?except God alone.
**********
Bush on Capital Punishment:
During his tenure as Governor, Bush presided over a record setting 152 executions...The Washington Post's Richard Cohen reported in October 2000 that one of the execution chamber's "tie-down team" members, Fred Allen, had to prepare so many people for lethal injections during 2000, he quit his job in disgust. (Wayne Madsen, CounterPunch.org)
Jesus on Capital Punishment:
(John 8 ) The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
**********
Bush on some humanitarian issues:
5/2003 Bush blocks human rights cases from reaching U.S. courts.
2/2003 Bush cuts federal housing subsidies.
2/2003 Bush cuts aid to the poor in his budget.
1/2003 Bush proposes yet more tax cuts for the rich.
12/2002 Bush kills rule allowing new parents to collect unemployment.
9/2002 Bush proposes a reduction in Medicare payments.
4/2002 Bush considers eliminating requirements for testing children for lead.
4/2001 Bush cuts health programs for uninsured.
Jesus says in return:
(Matthew 25 ) "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
**********
I also don't imagine Jesus Christ throwing his support behind G.W. Bush's latest war in which 11,000 noncombatants have been killed needlessly, for the sake of the bottom lines of big business, much of it owned and managed by people close to, or within his administration. And, I don't think Jesus would be in approval of "Enronomics" or Bush's extremist rightwing law-of-the-jungle capitalism.
If I were terribly worried, I'd be building myself a bunker rather than planning to remodel my kitchen.
If times to be terribly worried arrive, I'd advise for packing and leaving.
Quote:
I'd rather not have to apply such low standards to obtain comfort.
But you wouldn't mind such low standards be applied to people in Egypt?
And if it's about comfort, secular Egyptians can manage roughly the same lifestyle as yours, but not as overtly so.
I apply the same standards to all myself, which is why I find your ?fundamentalists? to be quite on the soft side, and mostly ineffectual.
Quote:
I'm really more worried about the occasional stealth nutcase slipping into a position of real power. I sometimes find myself wondering if George Bush is such a person.
For your fears to materialise you'd need much more than that: an active resolve to advance a clerical state.
Quote:
The problem is that I'm not sure what to make of Bush's version of Christianity. Is it sincere, or is it pandering? Even if it is pandering, how much will he push the Christian agenda, especially when it comes to appointing judges, to "appeal to his base"?
As much as he pushed it until now, that is: paying a lip service to it, it's not like aforementioned ?base? has much of an alternative come election day.
The current administration had showed beyond the shadow of a doubt it is capable of pursuing with resolve policies about issues it really cares about (as some Mid-Easterners now acquiesce). Its lack of action on the so-called Christian agenda shows exactly how much it cares about it.
Quote:
I worry about how far Bush might go to keep himself in power if he begins to fear that his position is at risk. This isn't a big worry to me, but I have to confess that such fears enter my mind, and I can't easily dismiss them as totally unfounded.
As unfounded as the fear expressed by a few people in 1981, that François Mitterrand's Socialist/Communist coalition was a prelude to a communist takover of France; that is: entirely unfounded.
If anything, it's your so-called fundamentalists who should be very worried with the current administration which, now in its fourth year, not only hasn't seriously challenged the prevailing public mores, but also abandoned all pretenses of isolationist leanings or of a weakened state apparatus.
Comments
Originally posted by sammi jo
That Kennedy quote does not mention Christianity, the Bible, or Jesus.
I guess the quote from Romans doesn't count.
Okie-Dokie
(he quotes Isaiah by name later in the speech---the nerve)
Originally posted by Frank777
Of course it's my opinion.
Do you usually reply to internet forums so you can post somebody else's opinions?
No, but I don't usually state my opinions as facts either.
Originally posted by Fangorn
Kennedy was a Roman Catholic. I'm sure he didn't have Allah in mind when he referred to God.
Well, at least he didn't have the shortsightedness to refer explicitly to the Christian faith.
Quote:
Atheist terrorist? Let's see: Joe Stalin, Pol Pot, Castro, Mao, Lenin, just to name a few.
I asked are there any terrorist atheist groups out there.....all those characters in your list are dead, barring Castro. And as far as I know, he is not listed by the FBI as the leader or member of any terrorist group. The vast majority of terror groups consist of people of faith, or people using terror to promote some (usually fundamentalist) religious cause.
1. It would have been far easier to launch a "Christian States of America" when the Puritans were large and in charge.
Wel...I'm taking a Native American Anthro class and that's kind of what they did... Did you know in King Phillip's War, which you probably aren't familiar with, more Americans were killed than during the Civil War or World Wars? Many times over in fact! Just thousands, that number isn't impressive, but it was the worst war for New England. And it was because Puritans were hypocritical, intolerant, racist, assholes.
How about that Billy Boykin?
Originally posted by Aquatic
Did you know in King Phillip's War, which you probably aren't familiar with, more Americans were killed than during the Civil War or World Wars? Many times over in fact!
I'm going to need a link to believe that. The claim seems unbelievable, knowing the kind of numbers that died in WWII and the US Civil War.
Originally posted by Aquatic
...more Americans were killed...
Never mind. I get it now. I was thinking of the total deaths, not just Americans.
Originally posted by sammi jo
That Kennedy quote does not mention Christianity, the Bible, or Jesus. The sole religious reference is "God"... so nobody of any faith is offended, or left out. And thats the way it should be. For Atheists, the "God" references are excess baggage anyway: the sentiments are no less valid without God.
So you're okay with leaving "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and "In God We Trust" on U.S. money?
Like you said, nobody should be offended.
Originally posted by Fangorn
Kennedy was a Roman Catholic. I'm sure he didn't have Allah in mind when he referred to God.
Atheist terrorist? Let's see: ... Lenin, just to name a few.
This man was emphatically not a terrorist. Off topic, forgive please, but Lenin wasn't no terrorist. Disagree with him until you're blue in the face but don't diminish him by calling him a terrorist. He wasn't.
Originally posted by Frank777
Thank God there are people like you to explain to us what Evangelicalism is about.
BTW, Isn't calling an identifyable group "deranged" and suffering from "mass psychosis" a violation of the posting guidelines?
People who don't think like you do have mental problems. Nice.
No, just these people.
Originally posted by Fangorn
Kennedy was a Roman Catholic. I'm sure he didn't have Allah in mind when he referred to God.
Atheist terrorist? Let's see: Joe Stalin, Pol Pot, Castro, Mao, Lenin, just to name a few.
The Crusades, the Inquisition, the IRA, Abortion Clinic Bombers, just to name a few.
What does this mean? People, regardless of their faith or lack thereof, have the capacity for great acts of depravity.
Originally posted by Frank777
So you're okay with leaving "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and "In God We Trust" on U.S. money?
Like you said, nobody should be offended.
She may be but I sure as hell am not for it. god has no place in government. NONE.
Originally posted by Fangorn
Kennedy was a Roman Catholic. I'm sure he didn't have Allah in mind when he referred to God.
Atheist terrorist? ... Castro ...
Come to think of it, this man isn't a terrorist either. Not big on human rights, I grant you. A repressive censor, I admit. But you're stretching it to call the guy a 'terrorist'. I'm trying to compare him to ETA, the IRA, the Tamil Tigers and Hamas, whose actions, aims and methods define what everyone alive on the planet understands by the word 'terrorist', and for the life of me I can't remember the last time he blew up a train, department store or pizza restaurant. He's not militating for the overthrow of anyone or anything but trying to kill and terrify strangers.
Originally posted by Frank777
... of submission to the Almighty rather than choosing godless atheism.
A bit off topic, but why is it always "godless atheism." Isn't that redundant? You never hear "Godful Christianism."
To me it sounds childish. Sort of like calling someone a big, meany poo poo head.
Originally posted by Frank777
So you're okay with leaving "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance and "In God We Trust" on U.S. money?
Like you said, nobody should be offended.
Frank, Kennedy's speech was a speech, not the law of the land. The First Amendment implies freedom of religion, which in turn implies freedom FROM religion, which in turn implies that the peoples' representative government is not allied to religion as well.
The Pledge of Allegiance and U.S. money should not have references to God on them. In my view, it's unconstitutional.
Originally posted by dmz
Oh yea, here's to the crazy ones. Enough hatred and unatural fear of Christians---this isn't sane.
I only fear people who are trying to impose a Christian agenda on others.
How much of this stuff that I brought up earlier describes you?
Public prayer back in public schools? Check.
Religious oaths for public office? Check.
Reinstitute old sodomy laws, and bump up the penalties? Check.
Outlaw abortion, absolutely no exceptions, and sentence doctors who perform abortions to death? Check.
End all stem cell research. Check.
Eliminate all government financial and medical assistance, hoping to make the poor and the elderly rely on religious charities? Check.
Ban evolution from the classroom, maybe even replace it with Creationism. Check.
Bring back anti-porn laws, First Amendment be damned, with a vengeance? Check.
Make blasphemy a crime? Wouldn't put it past them.
If any of this does describe you, especially the more extreme portions, I definitely have reason to fear you gaining enough political clout to implement any of it.
Even if there is insufficient political power to implement such an agenda, it makes me sad and angry that there are people who conflate this sort of agenda with chest-thumping patriotism, while imagining themselves as True Americans and Defenders of Freedom.
Falwell's "Liberty University" is a terribly misnamed institution, an institution which hopes to turn out as many people ready to foist an extreme Christian agenda on the rest of us as it can. Gotta love this quote from their Law School page:
In the Middle Ages they had convictions, where we moderns today have only opinions, and it takes more than opinions to build a Gothic cathedral.
-- Heinrich Heine
Ah, the good ol' Middle Ages! Those were the days!
Originally posted by Immanuel Goldstein
Relax, it'll do you good.
If I were terribly worried, I'd be building myself a bunker rather than planning to remodel my kitchen.
Now, if these retrograde mediaevophiles were, say, in Egypt rather than in the U.S.A., and say, Muslim rather than Christian, you'd be hailing them as moderates!
So relax.
I'd rather not have to apply such low standards to obtain comfort.
I'm really more worried about the occasional stealth nutcase slipping into a position of real power. I sometimes find myself wondering if George Bush is such a person.
The problem is that I'm not sure what to make of Bush's version of Christianity. Is it sincere, or is it pandering? Even if it is pandering, how much will he push the Christian agenda, especially when it comes to appointing judges, to "appeal to his base"?
If he is sincere, is he sincere in a literalist Romans 13 kind of way? If what some people say is correct, Bush actually believes he's God's choice for the job, and that he's there to do God's work. I can't help but find that a bit scary. Remembering the 2000 election, there was something in the way Bush reacted to the first reports that he'd lost Florida that seemed to me like more than mere disappointment or anger, but "No, this isn't the way it's supposed to be!" shock and denial.
I worry about how far Bush might go to keep himself in power if he begins to fear that his position is at risk. This isn't a big worry to me, but I have to confess that such fears enter my mind, and I can't easily dismiss them as totally unfounded.
Originally posted by shetline
How much of this stuff that I brought up earlier describes you?
If........I definitely have reason to fear you gaining enough political clout to implement any of it.
Be afriad shetline! The Christians are coming to get you!
Practiced Atheism will not hurt you, self abuse will not hurt you, powermad politicians---beholden to no one--will not hurt you, and heavens! A belief system that inculdes no inherent rights for mankind except what feels right at the end of a gun or cock will not hurt you.
Well, maybe not you....I gotta go, I've got some bathroom pornography to show my 7 year-old daughter.
(porn for my daughter is okay---let's see how okay this photo of a legal act is)
No one gets hurt?
Originally posted by dmz
Be afriad shetline! The Christians are coming to get you!
Practiced Atheism will not hurt you, self abuse will not hurt you, powermad politicians---beholden to no one--will not hurt you, and heavens! A belief system that inculdes no inherent rights for mankind except what feels right at the end of a gun or cock will not hurt you.
So, you're telling me that I'm not wrong about what I expect a Christian agenda would be like, that I'm only wrong to worry about it? That I should sit back and relax because, really, it'll be for my own good? Just wait, even hope, for the good, kindly (and certainly not power mad!) Christians to take control, bathing me with God-given rights, delivered by their God-given authority, to make my life better and to save me from myself?
I'm really more worried about the occasional stealth nutcase slipping into a position of real power. I sometimes find myself wondering if George Bush is such a person.
The problem is that I'm not sure what to make of Bush's version of Christianity. Is it sincere, or is it pandering? Even if it is pandering, how much will he push the Christian agenda, especially when it comes to appointing judges, to "appeal to his base"?
But is Bush really a Christian?
here are some issues, courtesy of "religiousleft":
Bush On Public Prayer:
When a California federal appeals court found that including the words "under God" in the Pledge of Alliegance was an unconstitutional endorsement of religion, White House press secretary Ari Fleischer said President Bush believes the ruling is "ridiculous." (CNN.com, June 27, 2002)
( In spite of his secular role in a country with a plurality of religions) By proclamation of Governor George W. Bush, 10 June 2000 was 'Jesus Day' in Texas. (Snopes.com)
Jesus on Public Prayer:
(Matthew 6:4-6) And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
*********
Bush on Forgiveness:
Bush indicated that he was running out of patience. Asked if he planned to set an ultimatum for Saddam's compliance, Bush suggested that would be pointless, like extending "another, another, another last chance." (CBS News, Feb 18, 2003)
Jesus on Forgiveness:
Matthew 18:22) Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.
*********
Bush on Mercy:
In an interview with Talk magazine, Bush imitated (Karla Faye) Tucker's appeal for him to spare her life - pursing his lips, squinting his eyes, and in a squeaky voice saying, "Please don't kill me." (Wayne Madsen, CounterPunch.org)
Jesus on Mercy:
(Luke 6) Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
**********
Bush on Good and Evil:
Bush referred to Iran, Iraq and North Korea as an "axis of evil". (State of the Union Address, 2002)
--repeatedly refers to struggle between good and evil, always casting the actions of the United States as "good" "...there's power, wonder-working power, in the goodness and idealism and faith of the American people." (State of the Union Address, 2003)
Jesus on Good and Evil:
(Matthew 7)"Do not judge, or you too will be judged.
( Mark 10:18 ) "Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good?except God alone.
**********
Bush on Capital Punishment:
During his tenure as Governor, Bush presided over a record setting 152 executions...The Washington Post's Richard Cohen reported in October 2000 that one of the execution chamber's "tie-down team" members, Fred Allen, had to prepare so many people for lethal injections during 2000, he quit his job in disgust. (Wayne Madsen, CounterPunch.org)
Jesus on Capital Punishment:
(John 8 ) The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."
**********
Bush on some humanitarian issues:
5/2003 Bush blocks human rights cases from reaching U.S. courts.
2/2003 Bush cuts federal housing subsidies.
2/2003 Bush cuts aid to the poor in his budget.
1/2003 Bush proposes yet more tax cuts for the rich.
12/2002 Bush kills rule allowing new parents to collect unemployment.
9/2002 Bush proposes a reduction in Medicare payments.
4/2002 Bush considers eliminating requirements for testing children for lead.
4/2001 Bush cuts health programs for uninsured.
Jesus says in return:
(Matthew 25 ) "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
**********
I also don't imagine Jesus Christ throwing his support behind G.W. Bush's latest war in which 11,000 noncombatants have been killed needlessly, for the sake of the bottom lines of big business, much of it owned and managed by people close to, or within his administration. And, I don't think Jesus would be in approval of "Enronomics" or Bush's extremist rightwing law-of-the-jungle capitalism.
some related articles at:
http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action...article=030910
and
http://www.middleeastinfo.org/article2136.html
....
Is Bush a Christian? ha!..what a joke.. Sounds more like an "anti-Christian" to me.
Originally posted by shetline
If I were terribly worried, I'd be building myself a bunker rather than planning to remodel my kitchen.
If times to be terribly worried arrive, I'd advise for packing and leaving.
I'd rather not have to apply such low standards to obtain comfort.
But you wouldn't mind such low standards be applied to people in Egypt?
And if it's about comfort, secular Egyptians can manage roughly the same lifestyle as yours, but not as overtly so.
I apply the same standards to all myself, which is why I find your ?fundamentalists? to be quite on the soft side, and mostly ineffectual.
I'm really more worried about the occasional stealth nutcase slipping into a position of real power. I sometimes find myself wondering if George Bush is such a person.
For your fears to materialise you'd need much more than that: an active resolve to advance a clerical state.
The problem is that I'm not sure what to make of Bush's version of Christianity. Is it sincere, or is it pandering? Even if it is pandering, how much will he push the Christian agenda, especially when it comes to appointing judges, to "appeal to his base"?
As much as he pushed it until now, that is: paying a lip service to it, it's not like aforementioned ?base? has much of an alternative come election day.
The current administration had showed beyond the shadow of a doubt it is capable of pursuing with resolve policies about issues it really cares about (as some Mid-Easterners now acquiesce). Its lack of action on the so-called Christian agenda shows exactly how much it cares about it.
I worry about how far Bush might go to keep himself in power if he begins to fear that his position is at risk. This isn't a big worry to me, but I have to confess that such fears enter my mind, and I can't easily dismiss them as totally unfounded.
As unfounded as the fear expressed by a few people in 1981, that François Mitterrand's Socialist/Communist coalition was a prelude to a communist takover of France; that is: entirely unfounded.
If anything, it's your so-called fundamentalists who should be very worried with the current administration which, now in its fourth year, not only hasn't seriously challenged the prevailing public mores, but also abandoned all pretenses of isolationist leanings or of a weakened state apparatus.