A word of advice. Don't max out RAM at the Apple store. Go skimpy on RAM when buying new machines from Apple and buy the RAM online for much cheaper. You will save quite a few bucks there.
yeah, really, 5K for 8GB at apple, as opposed to $2050 at datamem, jeez, what a ripoff.
Buy today's PowerBooks (and iBooks) in confidence, my brothers. And quit worrying about the damn G5. If a G5 PowerBook DID come out today, it would get about 28 minutes of battery life, scorch your scrotum and most of the crap you use day to day probably wouldn't know or care you had a G5.
I've said all along - and even believe MORE so now - that there won't be a G5-based PowerBook in 2004. The EARLIEST I honestly think it'll appear would be MWSF next January.
Jobs tends to overstate and talk big and I don't think it's wise to go through life planning fairly major purchase decisions on high-profile, Keynote-based statements by Captain RDF himself.
the 15" superdrives may have dropped $100, but they also only offer $200 in education discounts on it. it was $2599 before, but apple offered $300 in educational discounts.... tsk tsk
I've said all along - and even believe MORE so now - that there won't be a G5-based PowerBook in 2004. The EARLIEST I honestly think it'll appear would be MWSF next January.
Jobs tends to overstate and talk big and I don't think it's wise to go through life planning fairly major purchase decisions on high-profile, Keynote-based statements by Captain RDF himself.
Don't say I didn't tell you...
I agree completely, knowing how capable the G4 is I could also not even care too much about a G5 PB. Sure it would be awesome if they could just pull a switch and throw a G5 processor in the PB G4 enclosure, but it aint happenin'.
The G4 still has some life left, I would not be surprised if there are one or two more G4 speed bumps to the PowerBooks and the iBook and eMac will be using the G4 for a long time to come.
I predict the iMac and PowerMac will be the only computers using a G5 for about 10 months, til MFSF where we *might* see a PB G5. I think the iMac goes G5 in late June at WWDC.
:::Shakes Magic 8 Ball::: Signs Point To Yes, outlook is good. No complaints here, and while Steve may be captain RDF, I am captain Apple Apologist Apostle Boy (Steve's Wife)...so take what I just said for what it's worth.
Just saw this at MacMinute...and interesting tidbit for anyone being excessively chuckleheaded and "holding out for a G5 PowerBook"...
I agree, but we should get another update around MWSF (8-9months), imagine the awsome update then? 1.5G to 1.7? and only if were lucky that Moto can scale the 7447 to 1.7?, thats not to say that they cant, but these comments from Joswiak is designed to temper our expectations.
Like you said, the G5 does not appear to be incrementally faster at the same clock as the G4?, so I think your right about that (check out bare feats is a great site). Its just that I should have upgraded to the 1.5G PB 12 months ago, but you could only blame moto for that!.
I dont mind, im getting the 1.5G 15" and would only update with a G5 @ 2G or higher, so im expecting 18months of service before even considering updates?.
As soon as someone has seen one of the new 12" PBs in person, I'd love to hear a reaction to the quality of the LCD display.
I went to my local Apple Store, but they didn't have any of the new PowerBooks out on display yet. They did have 12-inchers in stock, but nothing they could/would show me.
I really like my current 12" PB, but I'm slightly disappointed with the display quality. It's just not as bright, and doesn't have as good a level of contrast, as my previous 15" PB. Even side by side with a friend's 12" iBook, the iBook's display looked better than my PB.
I was hoping to see one of the new 12" PBs to see if the display quality is any better than mine. I wouldn't upgrade just to go from 1 GHZ to 1.33, but if I'd also get a better display out of the deal, it might be worth it. I can probably get at least $1000 on eBay for my old PB, which has Airport Extreme, an 80 GB drive, and an extra 512 MB RAM added in.
BTW, expecting and getting an answer of "no", I asked if the people at the Apple Store would swap the 60 GB drive in a new 12" PB with the 80 GB drive I have in my old one. It would have been nice to be able to simply buy an in-stock 12" and not have to pay extra for a larger drive again.
They also said "yes", as I also expected, that I'd void my warranty if I did a drive swap myself.
I went to the Cambridge store yesterday, and played around with some of the portables to see just how bad these screens are. don't get me wrong, I've seen them a million times, and had one of the first TiBooks, but it seems like tons of people are complaining lately, and I wanted to specifically focus on checking out the display.
In the store, I noticed one of the 12"PB's seemed to have an awful display, washed out looking, no contrast. So I took a closer look...someone had calibrated it so poorly, that within 3-5 minutes of re-calibrating, it looked like a whole new screen. I figured I should check out some other displays to see if they too could be improved with calibration. ALL OF THEM were poorly calibrated, and then brightness cranked up too high.
In my highly un-scientific study, I found the LCD in the 12"PB to be great once it was calibrated (yes, I took the extra minute to select "advanced features" or whatever at the beggining of the calibration). Once I had fixed the displays, they all looked quite good to me. The 17" Studio looked the best to me, but even the 15"PB (the least good) was still a pleasure to use. granted, I wasn't typing for hours in front of them, or doing any color sensitive graphic design, but they were all quite good for LCDs.
I assume you've calibrated it. This is surprising because I've read elsewhere that the 12" PowerBook display looked better than the iBook.
We both went through a calibration together just to make sure. Makes me wonder how much unit-to-unit variation there might be, or quality differences due to unannounced changes of LCD panel suppliers.
the 15" superdrives may have dropped $100, but they also only offer $200 in education discounts on it. it was $2599 before, but apple offered $300 in educational discounts.... tsk tsk
Probably because they figured out too many people are cheating on the education program.
Also, did anyone else notice this: the illustrations of the PowerBooks - particularly the 15" - used on Apple's site look really good now.
Just remember, pscates, the illustrations of PowerBooks on Apple's website are just that, illustrations. Because they are renderings of 3D models, not photographs of real product, the illustrations are likely not to reflect what PowerBooks will look like in real life. There is no doubt in my mind that, aside from the serial numbers, the new 15-inch PowerBooks (will) look exactly the same as yours.
And quit worrying about the damn G5. If a G5 PowerBook DID come out today, it would get about 28 minutes of battery life, scorch your scrotum and most of the crap you use day to day probably wouldn't know or care you had a G5.
Second, I bought a 15" superdrive in Jan this year (the day of the keynote infact) and I have nothing bad to say about it. It is my first Mac, and after about 10 years in the windows world it is a refreshing change. I have used Keynote sw fairly heavily and exported presentations as movies for use on a DVD (through iMovie and into iDVD after export) and I have to say the speed has been adequate. Sure I'd like it to be faster, but I think anyone who does anything with video knows they are going to wait. For anything else, I run circles around co-workers P4 2.4ghz notebooks (mine is at 1.25GHz) all day long in regular tasks like web browsing, e-mail, etc. Even if the wait is longer than on some Windows machine (I haven't found one yet!) the Mac experience makes any "percieved" excess wait or slowness more than worth it. I wouldn't trade this PowerBook for a windows Laptop running 3x the speed.
Finally, anyone considering a portable, those new PBs are bad a$$. I would love to have a PM G5 3GHz (when it comes out), but not instead of my PB, in addition to it ; I don't think you can have too many Macs-I want an Xserve too! (yes I do have use for one, money being no object that is). If you need a portable buy it (I recommend the 15"-Didn't think I'd need the extra screen real estate over the 12", but I love it), if you don't need to be that mobile, grab a G5 PM-It'll last a good while, at least till the G5 PB.
WOW, incredible update! You can upgrade to 128MB of VRAM for only 50$? That is a STEAL! I want one, an iBook or a PB or something!!! You people who are able to buy now are SOOO LUCKY!!!Enjoy your new machines when they arrive!!! I will just wait until Apple has laptops out that are 1000% more impressive in every category than their current offerings and then we will see... MWAHAHAHAH....AWWWW....
also, i'm very releived that this update isn't too amazing so my 1.25 15" pbook isn't much different, but the 128 graphics memory would be nice in halo.
I luv my pb, till the day comes that the G5 powerbooks have their rev. B released, which will probably by July 2005.
Also, did anyone else notice this: the illustrations of the PowerBooks - particularly the 15" - used on Apple's site look really good now. They look lighter, sleeker and more clean than before.
Just something that caught my eye this morning, but I attributed it to early morning surprise syndrome. But even now, over 12 hours later, I could swear they look better. The 15" just looks more "metal-y" and a lighter, nicer shade of gray.
It is because you stared for so long at these iPods and Pepsi bottles . You are perhaps right, I don't remember well how the old ones looked.
Just remember, pscates, the illustrations of PowerBooks on Apple's website are just that, illustrations. Because they are renderings of 3D models, not photographs of real product, the illustrations are likely not to reflect what PowerBooks will look like in real life. There is no doubt in my mind that, aside from the serial numbers, the new 15-inch PowerBooks (will) look exactly the same as yours.
Escher
Yeah, I know. I don't expect the actual PowerBooks to look different at all. I was talking strictly about the illustrations, that's all. They just look nicer than before. I know they're not real and I know the real stuff won't look different.
I was just digging on the new reflections and slicker, silver appearance in the product renderings.
I was just digging on the new reflections and slicker, silver appearance in the product renderings.
I guess you're a professional illustrator appreciating another illustrator's work. The reflections and shading on the 15-inch illustration do look better than on the 12-inch illustration to me. But that might also be due to the 12-incher's thicker construction and thus larger "frontal" surface area. Either way, I can't wait to get the real deal in my sweaty little palms.
I think it's not worth it in a laptop, not unless it comes at a minimal price increase, and a minimal battery life decrease. You're much better off with more RAM than a faster internal HDD.
Actually, a coworker of mine held out for a 7200 RPM HD for his work laptop and having the faster hard drive makes an enormous difference. The speed of many operations are I/O based or are based on HD seek time. Having a faster drive really helps out quite a bit in this sense. I think that the speed increase is quite meaningful even if it does consume more battery life, and even if it costs more. Sadly, Apple doesn't offer a faster drive I really wish that it was a BTO option.
Quote:
Originally posted by Matsu
You can always plug in a big fast drive for intensive projects.
True, but it ties you to a desk at home or at the office. It kind of stinks to have your portability limited.
The fast drive is only important when you are doing pro end stuff that the ram can't handle by itself. OSX nowadays does very few page swaps, and only eats that HD speed when working with large files. There is no reason why you can get a high speed HD to sit on your desk, for working on pro projects, and then being happy with the quieter, less power hungry, less heat producing 4K or 5K drives. If you do your professional work on your lap and on the road, it makes me wonder what kind of professional....
The fast drive is only important when you are doing pro end stuff that the ram can't handle by itself. OSX nowadays does very few page swaps, and only eats that HD speed when working with large files.
I disagree. E.g. when you launch an application, your system will pull everything from your HDD, not from RAM. Long application launch times are a major irritant to me, and a fast drive will speed up the launching process, especially with bloatware like MS Office or Adobe Reader.
Do newer higher-RPM drives really use that much more power? What about 4200 v. 5400 and 5400 v. 7200 rpm? Personally, I'll be getting the 80GB 5400rpm BTO drive in my 12-inch PowerBook. Coming from a 10GB 4200rpm drive in my iBook, the improvement will be significant, both because of the drive size/density and rpm and all the other factors like clock and bus speed.
Comments
Originally posted by trowa
A word of advice. Don't max out RAM at the Apple store. Go skimpy on RAM when buying new machines from Apple and buy the RAM online for much cheaper. You will save quite a few bucks there.
yeah, really, 5K for 8GB at apple, as opposed to $2050 at datamem, jeez, what a ripoff.
Pack a lunch, pal
Buy today's PowerBooks (and iBooks) in confidence, my brothers. And quit worrying about the damn G5. If a G5 PowerBook DID come out today, it would get about 28 minutes of battery life, scorch your scrotum and most of the crap you use day to day probably wouldn't know or care you had a G5.
I've said all along - and even believe MORE so now - that there won't be a G5-based PowerBook in 2004. The EARLIEST I honestly think it'll appear would be MWSF next January.
Jobs tends to overstate and talk big and I don't think it's wise to go through life planning fairly major purchase decisions on high-profile, Keynote-based statements by Captain RDF himself.
Don't say I didn't tell you...
Originally posted by pscates
I've said all along - and even believe MORE so now - that there won't be a G5-based PowerBook in 2004. The EARLIEST I honestly think it'll appear would be MWSF next January.
Jobs tends to overstate and talk big and I don't think it's wise to go through life planning fairly major purchase decisions on high-profile, Keynote-based statements by Captain RDF himself.
Don't say I didn't tell you...
I agree completely, knowing how capable the G4 is I could also not even care too much about a G5 PB. Sure it would be awesome if they could just pull a switch and throw a G5 processor in the PB G4 enclosure, but it aint happenin'.
The G4 still has some life left, I would not be surprised if there are one or two more G4 speed bumps to the PowerBooks and the iBook and eMac will be using the G4 for a long time to come.
I predict the iMac and PowerMac will be the only computers using a G5 for about 10 months, til MFSF where we *might* see a PB G5. I think the iMac goes G5 in late June at WWDC.
:::Shakes Magic 8 Ball::: Signs Point To Yes, outlook is good. No complaints here, and while Steve may be captain RDF, I am captain Apple Apologist Apostle Boy (Steve's Wife)...so take what I just said for what it's worth.
Originally posted by pscates
Just saw this at MacMinute...and interesting tidbit for anyone being excessively chuckleheaded and "holding out for a G5 PowerBook"...
I agree, but we should get another update around MWSF (8-9months), imagine the awsome update then? 1.5G to 1.7? and only if were lucky that Moto can scale the 7447 to 1.7?, thats not to say that they cant, but these comments from Joswiak is designed to temper our expectations.
Like you said, the G5 does not appear to be incrementally faster at the same clock as the G4?, so I think your right about that (check out bare feats is a great site). Its just that I should have upgraded to the 1.5G PB 12 months ago, but you could only blame moto for that!.
I dont mind, im getting the 1.5G 15" and would only update with a G5 @ 2G or higher, so im expecting 18months of service before even considering updates?.
Originally posted by shetline
As soon as someone has seen one of the new 12" PBs in person, I'd love to hear a reaction to the quality of the LCD display.
I went to my local Apple Store, but they didn't have any of the new PowerBooks out on display yet. They did have 12-inchers in stock, but nothing they could/would show me.
I really like my current 12" PB, but I'm slightly disappointed with the display quality. It's just not as bright, and doesn't have as good a level of contrast, as my previous 15" PB. Even side by side with a friend's 12" iBook, the iBook's display looked better than my PB.
I was hoping to see one of the new 12" PBs to see if the display quality is any better than mine. I wouldn't upgrade just to go from 1 GHZ to 1.33, but if I'd also get a better display out of the deal, it might be worth it. I can probably get at least $1000 on eBay for my old PB, which has Airport Extreme, an 80 GB drive, and an extra 512 MB RAM added in.
BTW, expecting and getting an answer of "no", I asked if the people at the Apple Store would swap the 60 GB drive in a new 12" PB with the 80 GB drive I have in my old one. It would have been nice to be able to simply buy an in-stock 12" and not have to pay extra for a larger drive again.
They also said "yes", as I also expected, that I'd void my warranty if I did a drive swap myself.
I went to the Cambridge store yesterday, and played around with some of the portables to see just how bad these screens are. don't get me wrong, I've seen them a million times, and had one of the first TiBooks, but it seems like tons of people are complaining lately, and I wanted to specifically focus on checking out the display.
In the store, I noticed one of the 12"PB's seemed to have an awful display, washed out looking, no contrast. So I took a closer look...someone had calibrated it so poorly, that within 3-5 minutes of re-calibrating, it looked like a whole new screen. I figured I should check out some other displays to see if they too could be improved with calibration. ALL OF THEM were poorly calibrated, and then brightness cranked up too high.
In my highly un-scientific study, I found the LCD in the 12"PB to be great once it was calibrated (yes, I took the extra minute to select "advanced features" or whatever at the beggining of the calibration). Once I had fixed the displays, they all looked quite good to me. The 17" Studio looked the best to me, but even the 15"PB (the least good) was still a pleasure to use. granted, I wasn't typing for hours in front of them, or doing any color sensitive graphic design, but they were all quite good for LCDs.
Originally posted by iDave
I assume you've calibrated it. This is surprising because I've read elsewhere that the 12" PowerBook display looked better than the iBook.
We both went through a calibration together just to make sure. Makes me wonder how much unit-to-unit variation there might be, or quality differences due to unannounced changes of LCD panel suppliers.
Originally posted by Mordak
the 15" superdrives may have dropped $100, but they also only offer $200 in education discounts on it. it was $2599 before, but apple offered $300 in educational discounts.... tsk tsk
Probably because they figured out too many people are cheating on the education program.
On the online website, does apple only require your word that you are a member of an educational organization?
Also--are the new PBs shipping right away? Is this a first? Don't people usually wait AT LEAST 2 months?
Originally posted by pscates
Also, did anyone else notice this: the illustrations of the PowerBooks - particularly the 15" - used on Apple's site look really good now.
Just remember, pscates, the illustrations of PowerBooks on Apple's website are just that, illustrations. Because they are renderings of 3D models, not photographs of real product, the illustrations are likely not to reflect what PowerBooks will look like in real life. There is no doubt in my mind that, aside from the serial numbers, the new 15-inch PowerBooks (will) look exactly the same as yours.
Escher
And quit worrying about the damn G5. If a G5 PowerBook DID come out today, it would get about 28 minutes of battery life, scorch your scrotum and most of the crap you use day to day probably wouldn't know or care you had a G5.
Second, I bought a 15" superdrive in Jan this year (the day of the keynote infact) and I have nothing bad to say about it. It is my first Mac, and after about 10 years in the windows world it is a refreshing change. I have used Keynote sw fairly heavily and exported presentations as movies for use on a DVD (through iMovie and into iDVD after export) and I have to say the speed has been adequate. Sure I'd like it to be faster, but I think anyone who does anything with video knows they are going to wait. For anything else, I run circles around co-workers P4 2.4ghz notebooks (mine is at 1.25GHz) all day long in regular tasks like web browsing, e-mail, etc. Even if the wait is longer than on some Windows machine (I haven't found one yet!) the Mac experience makes any "percieved" excess wait or slowness more than worth it. I wouldn't trade this PowerBook for a windows Laptop running 3x the speed.
Finally, anyone considering a portable, those new PBs are bad a$$. I would love to have a PM G5 3GHz (when it comes out), but not instead of my PB, in addition to it
It's not HELPING!!!
I luv my pb, till the day comes that the G5 powerbooks have their rev. B released, which will probably by July 2005.
Originally posted by pscates
Also, did anyone else notice this: the illustrations of the PowerBooks - particularly the 15" - used on Apple's site look really good now. They look lighter, sleeker and more clean than before.
Just something that caught my eye this morning, but I attributed it to early morning surprise syndrome. But even now, over 12 hours later, I could swear they look better. The 15" just looks more "metal-y" and a lighter, nicer shade of gray.
It is because you stared for so long at these iPods and Pepsi bottles
Originally posted by Escher
Just remember, pscates, the illustrations of PowerBooks on Apple's website are just that, illustrations. Because they are renderings of 3D models, not photographs of real product, the illustrations are likely not to reflect what PowerBooks will look like in real life. There is no doubt in my mind that, aside from the serial numbers, the new 15-inch PowerBooks (will) look exactly the same as yours.
Escher
Yeah, I know. I don't expect the actual PowerBooks to look different at all. I was talking strictly about the illustrations, that's all. They just look nicer than before. I know they're not real and I know the real stuff won't look different.
I was just digging on the new reflections and slicker, silver appearance in the product renderings.
Originally posted by pscates
I was just digging on the new reflections and slicker, silver appearance in the product renderings.
I guess you're a professional illustrator appreciating another illustrator's work. The reflections and shading on the 15-inch illustration do look better than on the 12-inch illustration to me. But that might also be due to the 12-incher's thicker construction and thus larger "frontal" surface area. Either way, I can't wait to get the real deal in my sweaty little palms.
Escher
Originally posted by Matsu
As for the faster HDD?
I think it's not worth it in a laptop, not unless it comes at a minimal price increase, and a minimal battery life decrease. You're much better off with more RAM than a faster internal HDD.
Actually, a coworker of mine held out for a 7200 RPM HD for his work laptop and having the faster hard drive makes an enormous difference. The speed of many operations are I/O based or are based on HD seek time. Having a faster drive really helps out quite a bit in this sense. I think that the speed increase is quite meaningful even if it does consume more battery life, and even if it costs more. Sadly, Apple doesn't offer a faster drive
Originally posted by Matsu
You can always plug in a big fast drive for intensive projects.
True, but it ties you to a desk at home or at the office. It kind of stinks to have your portability limited.
Originally posted by Imergingenious
The fast drive is only important when you are doing pro end stuff that the ram can't handle by itself. OSX nowadays does very few page swaps, and only eats that HD speed when working with large files.
I disagree. E.g. when you launch an application, your system will pull everything from your HDD, not from RAM. Long application launch times are a major irritant to me, and a fast drive will speed up the launching process, especially with bloatware like MS Office or Adobe Reader.
Do newer higher-RPM drives really use that much more power? What about 4200 v. 5400 and 5400 v. 7200 rpm? Personally, I'll be getting the 80GB 5400rpm BTO drive in my 12-inch PowerBook. Coming from a 10GB 4200rpm drive in my iBook, the improvement will be significant, both because of the drive size/density and rpm and all the other factors like clock and bus speed.
Escher