...I think they can crank up the G4 till at least 1.7/1.8GHz before they'll put a G5 in the iMac....
The sad reality is that for Apple to be truely competative at the price that the iMac sells for they really need a 1.8-2Ghz chip today. They could probably get away with a 1.6 G5, but not G4 due to other limitations on the processor like DDR support and FSB speed that hamper the design of the computer to what should be unacceptable levels for Apple to accept in their products.
Here are my predictions on the chip upgrades for this year and forwards.
(not based on stuff from a friend from an uncle from an employee of Apple, but purely based on some very logical thinking)
First of all.. expect some stuff in the next ten days. The first anniversary of the ITMS wont go unnoticed. It's highly likely that we will see a new generation iPod with cues takes from the mini. Also iTunes might receive an update along with a launch of the store in some other parts of the world. (not europe)
But now on to the books and desktops. First off the iMac:
I expect the iMac to be updated on or before WWDC. (may or june)
It will NOT get a G5, but will get the 1.5 G4 chip like some other people have mentioned. There's no way Apple will let the iMac have a G5 chip before the powerbook does. Having said that, expect the G5 iMac with a complete new form factor around MWSF '05 or later in that quarter (depending on powerbook G5 update)
Then the Powermac.. WWDC is very likely for an announcement. I'm still on the fence whetether they do a modest 970fx update with speeds around 2.6 gig tops, or jump directly to 3.0 gigahertz with models shiping later this year (september/oktober)
iBooks.. I think we will see a new enclosure pretty soon. The current one (although very good, rugged and functional) is getting old. Expect an updated iBook around november/december for the holidaybuying season. Expect a return of colors. It will very likely use the same 1.5 G5 chip that the current Powerbook uses. I'm 100 % sure we will see a change in enclosure BEFORE a change from G4 to G5 for the iBook. Remember the current enclosure is about 3 years old now.
PowerBooks.. The G5 will be put in the Powerbook at the end of this year or in the first quarter of 2005.. I think thats pretty much a given. There might be another interim G4 update but thats quite unlikely as Motorola doesnt have any faster generation G4's available and wont have later this year. (might be wrong here.)
So thats about it.. We also might see some kind of anniversary mac this year which will very likely be based on the G5. (probably a 1.6 970fx orso)
After analysing Apple's recent upgrades and all the rumors floating around I think these are reasonable predictions about what we will see from Apple in the future. 8)
The current iMacs should be able to handle that easily. I have an 867 PowerMac (with a now pretty crappy 32MB GF2MX gfx card) whose specs are surpassed by the current iMacs, and I have no problems in WC3TFT with any number of folk on BNet. I've played 6 v 6 custom games satisfactorily (ok...slight lagging when people start using starfall and other area effect spells all at once...but if someone uses starfall on you for more than a few seconds, you get whatever you deserve ) So wait a week or so until the iMacs are updated and you'll be happy as a Pandaran Brewmaster. (sorry...geek overload there...)
Personally, I've decided not to upgrade until the PowerBooks go G5, so none of this bothers me one way or the other. I'm still hoping for that before the fall so I can start off the school year with a new toy. But I may have to wait until Xmas and the spring semester.
-DCQ
Imacs are faster... except for a VERY important part... your 1mb l3 cache. My quicksilver 733 (no l3 cache) was creamed by powermac 450's because of that damn l3 cahce. I had a faster bus, better graphics card... but that l3 cache made all the difference. Its a good chance your 867 could keep up with an iMac in some serious # crunching apps.
First of all.. expect some stuff in the next ten days. The first anniversary of the ITMS wont go unnoticed. It's highly likely that we will see a new generation iPod with cues takes from the mini. Also iTunes might receive an update along with a launch of the store in some other parts of the world. (not europe)
You mean like the Mac's 20th anniversary went unnoticed?
I don't see the G5 making it into the iMac anytime soon.
the G5 is the PROcessor and the G4 is (now) the SEMI PROcessor.
I really hope not. Apple can no longer afford to play their market segmentation games considering their lackluster sales on everything but iBooks. They need G5s everywhere as soon as possible, and I refuse to believe they'd sit on a G5 iMac for months until the G5 PB was ready.
Well I can't be certian of anything with respect to where the 970FX will show up next. I can however speculate
Frist; the desktop lines need dramatic updates across the boards. This is a given form the users perspective but as recent conferences with Apple have shown are now a busnes priority.
Second; it is not likely that the 970FX will ever show up in a portable. By the time they have it's process 100% the chip will be competeing with new hardware from IBM and FreeScale.
The 970FX will end up in new IMacs or their replacement becuase this is where they are needed and I suspect that htis is where the 970 was originally targetted for mass production. The fact that the 970FX did not get a cache size increase nor any other major improvements beyond power management tells me that this is the new low end processor. Unfortunately not low power enough for laptops but just aobut right for iMacs and similar machines.
So if there is much more than a couple of weeks wait for the iMac revs I think it is safe to expect a 970 in them. It is needed simply to generate excitement for the model line and revive sales.
Dave
Quote:
Originally posted by ~ufo~
I've said this before:
I don't see the G5 making it into the iMac anytime soon.
the G5 is the PROcessor and the G4 is (now) the SEMI PROcessor.
the G5 is way too fresh to start making it into the consumer devises already.
I think they can crank up the G4 till at least 1.7/1.8GHz before they'll put a G5 in the iMac.
powerbooks would be a while off too I guess, but it will of course get it sooner than the iMac, because the powerbook is a Pro machine, not a consumer machine. It's not a matter of what apple CAN put into their machines, it's a matter of what they SHOULD put in there (from their marketing perspective).
that said, of course it would be KICK ASS to get a G5 into the iMac, but personally I'd be cheering for the complimentary FORM FACTOR CHANGE it would get along with the G5.
Apple needs to get the G5 in the hands of more people and its the processor to truly make OS X shine.
On the other hand, Apple can't sell G5s they don't have. If IBM is just getting around to producing enough for the Xserve, then I think any possible iMac G5 release is not exactly imminent.
Unless the nature of IBM's problem was such that they went from sucking to producing more or less overnight, in which case PMs and iMacs could come out fairly quickly.
Quote:
iMac sales SUCK people.
They have been consistently mediocre since the LCD iMac's first quarter, which was its only good quarter.
Given that, I suspect that the CPU is not the only, or even the primary, concern with the current design.
On the other hand, Apple can't sell G5s they don't have. If IBM is just getting around to producing enough for the Xserve, then I think any possible iMac G5 release is not exactly imminent.
Unless the nature of IBM's problem was such that they went from sucking to producing more or less overnight, in which case PMs and iMacs could come out fairly quickly.
They have been consistently mediocre since the LCD iMac's first quarter, which was its only good quarter.
Given that, I suspect that the CPU is not the only, or even the primary, concern with the current design.
I believe that they are coming as soon as May 1st, and yes I believe that a G5 will be in it. Reason being, I believe that the New iMacs will have a 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 G5 or a combination there of. No, 2.0's cause they need to fill the channel with XServes. These G5 chips are the left overs from the production of 2.0's.
There has to be slower 90 nm chips available, it's just the way the process works. So since we can be relatively sure that chips slower than 2.0 exist, we can be sure that Apple needs a product to put them in.
I believe that the New iMacs will have a 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 G5 or a combination there of.
a 1.4 G5....ha, you can keep that i'll have the new eMac instead. Roughly same speed and more than half the price Apple will want for even the entry level G5 iMac. Go check out xbench, the eMac will score around 130 with its new bus speed and RAM, a single processor 1.8G5 scores 140 with what will be far superior architecture than what will be put into a consumer iMac. I think the 1.5G4 would be a better choice than a 1.4G5 at the moment, Apple needs to come in with fast G5's, not piss about with a 1.4. The iMac would have to be 1.8 and 2.0 to really make an impact.
If the iMac does go G5, it will be a break from the longstanding tradition that the iMac follows the PowerBook.
That wouldn't be a bad thing, and it doesn't mean that Apple won't do it. But an induction over previous updates says that we can expect iMacs with 1.33GHz and 1.5GHz G4s soon.
It might also make sense for Apple to hold off using the 970fx in a consumer machine until IBM is drowning in them. Better to stick with a proven design on a proven fab - or, failing that, the G4.
What about the obvious - the iMac enclosure is much bigger and more roomy than that of the powerbook thus cooling is less of an issue if an issue at all.
On the other hand, Apple can't sell G5s they don't have. If IBM is just getting around to producing enough for the Xserve, then I think any possible iMac G5 release is not exactly imminent.
Unless the nature of IBM's problem was such that they went from sucking to producing more or less overnight, in which case PMs and iMacs could come out fairly quickly.
Well we can always hope for such a screw up. It would not be a surprise to me considering what I've experienced in manufacturing over the years. Atleast as far as the rumoured "glue" issue goes.
What bothers me about the 970FX is the fact that it was released at 2GHz in the XServe and nothing faster. Believe me I've heard all sorts of arguments about that but I still take it as a bad sign.
Quote:
They have been consistently mediocre since the LCD iMac's first quarter, which was its only good quarter.
Given that, I suspect that the CPU is not the only, or even the primary, concern with the current design.
It is a very big concern to me and probally others. The problem is do you really want to spend your hard earned cash on a machine that has such a awfully out dated compute system? That in a nut shell is what breaks the deal for me. Mac OS/X is not that good that it will cause one to over come the rather shocking price premium.
The killer is there is talk about another rev of the iMac to a faster G4! Does anybody out there think that that sort of rev would impact sales positively? The very people that this machine is targetted at expect fast flexible systems sitting on their desk at home. That is not an iMac.
What bothers me about the 970FX is the fact that it was released at 2GHz in the XServe and nothing faster. Believe me I've heard all sorts of arguments about that but I still take it as a bad sign.
I'm not too worried yet. Apple couldn't very well ship the Xserve at 2.5 with the towers still at 2.0; that would immediately kill tower sales until the next revision.
Quote:
The killer is there is talk about another rev of the iMac to a faster G4! Does anybody out there think that that sort of rev would impact sales positively? The very people that this machine is targetted at expect fast flexible systems sitting on their desk at home. That is not an iMac.
Agreed. The iMac is a terrible value unless you *really* like the form factor. A G4 at 1.5GHz won't change that at all.
Not only is the around two GHz needed to impact the market perception of this machine. It is simply needed to deliver a machine that performs acceptably against the Wintel offerings.
Apple and many others on these boards seem to mis an important concept. Consumers will not spend extra dollars over industry norms unless they believe they are getting a good value. Nothing powered by a G4 represents good value agianst what is available in the i86 world. The G5 is a stark admission to this reality. By the time the iMac is reved to G5 technology it will need to be running at atleast 2GHz to do the things that most consumers expect form their PC's.
Quote:
Originally posted by MacGraham
a 1.4 G5....ha, you can keep that i'll have the new eMac instead. Roughly same speed and more than half the price Apple will want for even the entry level G5 iMac. Go check out xbench, the eMac will score around 130 with its new bus speed and RAM, a single processor 1.8G5 scores 140 with what will be far superior architecture than what will be put into a consumer iMac. I think the 1.5G4 would be a better choice than a 1.4G5 at the moment, Apple needs to come in with fast G5's, not piss about with a 1.4. The iMac would have to be 1.8 and 2.0 to really make an impact.
This is precisely what I'm talking about. Has anyone looked at the specs for a XServe, people it doesn't compete with the tower at all.
Besides if there was any basis for this argument then could somebody explain why CURRENT tower sales have tanked? Towers will sell and sell well when they are finally priced right for the performance that one gets out of them. It is rather clear that Apple hasn't gotten this right yet. Besides how many are really aware of the XServe and for that matter what a server even does when they are out shopping for a Mac?
If I sound frustrated it is becuase I want Apple to succeed and it doesn't look like things are going in the right direction if the G4 iMac rev rumored is indeed a fact.
It has recently been stated by Apples management team that they have been chasing revenue over market share. While I understand that revenue is important it does look like Apples management team has the same perception of the market place as the Amiga teams. Apple has to come with an agressive plan to increase market share without going broke. To focus only on revenue is foolish and targets the short term at the expense of sustainable growth.
Quote:
I'm not too worried yet. Apple couldn't very well ship the Xserve at 2.5 with the towers still at 2.0; that would immediately kill tower sales until the next revision.
Agreed. The iMac is a terrible value unless you *really* like the form factor. A G4 at 1.5GHz won't change that at all.
This is precisely what I'm talking about. Has anyone looked at the specs for a XServe, people it doesn't compete with the tower at all.
The issue is not that everyone would immediately run out and get an Xserve instead of a PowerMac. The issue is that as soon as people saw an Xserve at, say, 2.5GHz they'd hold out for the PowerMac update that was obviously right around the corner. Apple played their cards right this time, given that there has not a PM update, months after the Xserve G5 was introduced.
Quote:
Besides if there was any basis for this argument then could somebody explain why CURRENT tower sales have tanked?
Once you factor in channel inventory reduction, PowerMac sales are down maybe 5% this quarter. That's probably because some people are waiting for the traditional early spring refresh, and more likely because Q2 is always Apple's slowest quarter (one analyst expected iPod sales to drop 20% this quarter, to give you some idea).
A 5% drop is not tanking. The Cube's sales tanked. This is just a weak quarter.
Quote:
Towers will sell and sell well when they are finally priced right for the performance that one gets out of them.
But they will never sell that well, because they're big desktops. Those are on their way out of favor. They'll always be around, and Apple will probably sell a couple hundred thousand per quarter - give or take - for a good while yet, but if you want to see where the growth is, look at the portables.
Quote:
If I sound frustrated it is becuase I want Apple to succeed and it doesn't look like things are going in the right direction if the G4 iMac rev rumored is indeed a fact.
The only despairing reviews of the iMac I've seen come from tech-ish forums like this one and (especially) Ars. Federal Computer Week just posted a glowing review of the 20" iMac last week. Perhaps the iMac's greatest obstacle to acceptance is the small but vocal army of Mac and PC technical types (and wanna-bes) who scare people away from the machine. Every review that just sums up what the machine can do, and how well it does, continues to give the iMac high marks. There's a lot more to a computer than a system bus.
Quote:
It has recently been stated by Apples management team that they have been chasing revenue over market share. [...] Apple has to come with an agressive plan to increase market share without going broke. To focus only on revenue is foolish and targets the short term at the expense of sustainable growth.
iPod.
As for focusing on revenue, have you seen Apple's stock lately? The bean-counters were tickled pink by Apple's last quarter. More revenue means more money to spend on R&D. More sources of revenue (software, iPod) means lower overall risk, because Apple doesn't have its eggs in one basket (Mac hardware sales) anymore. It also means more money for Mac hardware R&D. And, of course, for the business-y types who read the financial section of the paper, but don't know a gigahertz from a billion rental cars, this means positive mindshare for Apple in the minds of the people who control the purse strings, which means a better chance that they'll be considered seriously.
Comments
Originally posted by ~ufo~
...I think they can crank up the G4 till at least 1.7/1.8GHz before they'll put a G5 in the iMac....
The sad reality is that for Apple to be truely competative at the price that the iMac sells for they really need a 1.8-2Ghz chip today. They could probably get away with a 1.6 G5, but not G4 due to other limitations on the processor like DDR support and FSB speed that hamper the design of the computer to what should be unacceptable levels for Apple to accept in their products.
Here are my predictions on the chip upgrades for this year and forwards.
(not based on stuff from a friend from an uncle from an employee of Apple, but purely based on some very logical thinking)
First of all.. expect some stuff in the next ten days. The first anniversary of the ITMS wont go unnoticed. It's highly likely that we will see a new generation iPod with cues takes from the mini. Also iTunes might receive an update along with a launch of the store in some other parts of the world. (not europe)
But now on to the books and desktops. First off the iMac:
I expect the iMac to be updated on or before WWDC. (may or june)
It will NOT get a G5, but will get the 1.5 G4 chip like some other people have mentioned. There's no way Apple will let the iMac have a G5 chip before the powerbook does. Having said that, expect the G5 iMac with a complete new form factor around MWSF '05 or later in that quarter (depending on powerbook G5 update)
Then the Powermac.. WWDC is very likely for an announcement. I'm still on the fence whetether they do a modest 970fx update with speeds around 2.6 gig tops, or jump directly to 3.0 gigahertz with models shiping later this year (september/oktober)
iBooks.. I think we will see a new enclosure pretty soon. The current one (although very good, rugged and functional) is getting old. Expect an updated iBook around november/december for the holidaybuying season. Expect a return of colors. It will very likely use the same 1.5 G5 chip that the current Powerbook uses. I'm 100 % sure we will see a change in enclosure BEFORE a change from G4 to G5 for the iBook. Remember the current enclosure is about 3 years old now.
PowerBooks.. The G5 will be put in the Powerbook at the end of this year or in the first quarter of 2005.. I think thats pretty much a given. There might be another interim G4 update but thats quite unlikely as Motorola doesnt have any faster generation G4's available and wont have later this year. (might be wrong here.)
So thats about it.. We also might see some kind of anniversary mac this year which will very likely be based on the G5. (probably a 1.6 970fx orso)
After analysing Apple's recent upgrades and all the rumors floating around I think these are reasonable predictions about what we will see from Apple in the future. 8)
Originally posted by DCQ
The current iMacs should be able to handle that easily. I have an 867 PowerMac (with a now pretty crappy 32MB GF2MX gfx card) whose specs are surpassed by the current iMacs, and I have no problems in WC3TFT with any number of folk on BNet. I've played 6 v 6 custom games satisfactorily (ok...slight lagging when people start using starfall and other area effect spells all at once...but if someone uses starfall on you for more than a few seconds, you get whatever you deserve
Personally, I've decided not to upgrade until the PowerBooks go G5, so none of this bothers me one way or the other. I'm still hoping for that before the fall so I can start off the school year with a new toy. But I may have to wait until Xmas and the spring semester.
-DCQ
Imacs are faster... except for a VERY important part... your 1mb l3 cache. My quicksilver 733 (no l3 cache) was creamed by powermac 450's because of that damn l3 cahce. I had a faster bus, better graphics card... but that l3 cache made all the difference. Its a good chance your 867 could keep up with an iMac in some serious # crunching apps.
Originally posted by /\\ldie
First of all.. expect some stuff in the next ten days. The first anniversary of the ITMS wont go unnoticed. It's highly likely that we will see a new generation iPod with cues takes from the mini. Also iTunes might receive an update along with a launch of the store in some other parts of the world. (not europe)
You mean like the Mac's 20th anniversary went unnoticed?
Originally posted by emig647
You mean like the Mac's 20th anniversary went unnoticed?
just watch.. send your browser to apple.com at the end of this month.
I don't see the G5 making it into the iMac anytime soon.
Apple needs to get the G5 in the hands of more people and its the processor to truly make OS X shine.
It would be a travesty if Apple waited on putting the G5 in the iMac just so it could be in the PB first.
iMac sales SUCK people.
Hello?
Originally posted by ~ufo~
I don't see the G5 making it into the iMac anytime soon.
the G5 is the PROcessor and the G4 is (now) the SEMI PROcessor.
I really hope not. Apple can no longer afford to play their market segmentation games considering their lackluster sales on everything but iBooks. They need G5s everywhere as soon as possible, and I refuse to believe they'd sit on a G5 iMac for months until the G5 PB was ready.
Frist; the desktop lines need dramatic updates across the boards. This is a given form the users perspective but as recent conferences with Apple have shown are now a busnes priority.
Second; it is not likely that the 970FX will ever show up in a portable. By the time they have it's process 100% the chip will be competeing with new hardware from IBM and FreeScale.
The 970FX will end up in new IMacs or their replacement becuase this is where they are needed and I suspect that htis is where the 970 was originally targetted for mass production. The fact that the 970FX did not get a cache size increase nor any other major improvements beyond power management tells me that this is the new low end processor. Unfortunately not low power enough for laptops but just aobut right for iMacs and similar machines.
So if there is much more than a couple of weeks wait for the iMac revs I think it is safe to expect a 970 in them. It is needed simply to generate excitement for the model line and revive sales.
Dave
Originally posted by ~ufo~
I've said this before:
I don't see the G5 making it into the iMac anytime soon.
the G5 is the PROcessor and the G4 is (now) the SEMI PROcessor.
the G5 is way too fresh to start making it into the consumer devises already.
I think they can crank up the G4 till at least 1.7/1.8GHz before they'll put a G5 in the iMac.
powerbooks would be a while off too I guess, but it will of course get it sooner than the iMac, because the powerbook is a Pro machine, not a consumer machine. It's not a matter of what apple CAN put into their machines, it's a matter of what they SHOULD put in there (from their marketing perspective).
that said, of course it would be KICK ASS to get a G5 into the iMac, but personally I'd be cheering for the complimentary FORM FACTOR CHANGE it would get along with the G5.
Originally posted by msantti
Apple needs to get the G5 in the hands of more people and its the processor to truly make OS X shine.
On the other hand, Apple can't sell G5s they don't have. If IBM is just getting around to producing enough for the Xserve, then I think any possible iMac G5 release is not exactly imminent.
Unless the nature of IBM's problem was such that they went from sucking to producing more or less overnight, in which case PMs and iMacs could come out fairly quickly.
iMac sales SUCK people.
They have been consistently mediocre since the LCD iMac's first quarter, which was its only good quarter.
Given that, I suspect that the CPU is not the only, or even the primary, concern with the current design.
Originally posted by Amorph
On the other hand, Apple can't sell G5s they don't have. If IBM is just getting around to producing enough for the Xserve, then I think any possible iMac G5 release is not exactly imminent.
Unless the nature of IBM's problem was such that they went from sucking to producing more or less overnight, in which case PMs and iMacs could come out fairly quickly.
They have been consistently mediocre since the LCD iMac's first quarter, which was its only good quarter.
Given that, I suspect that the CPU is not the only, or even the primary, concern with the current design.
I believe that they are coming as soon as May 1st, and yes I believe that a G5 will be in it. Reason being, I believe that the New iMacs will have a 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 G5 or a combination there of. No, 2.0's cause they need to fill the channel with XServes. These G5 chips are the left overs from the production of 2.0's.
There has to be slower 90 nm chips available, it's just the way the process works. So since we can be relatively sure that chips slower than 2.0 exist, we can be sure that Apple needs a product to put them in.
Originally posted by oldmacfan
I believe that the New iMacs will have a 1.4, 1.6, 1.8 G5 or a combination there of.
a 1.4 G5....ha, you can keep that i'll have the new eMac instead. Roughly same speed and more than half the price Apple will want for even the entry level G5 iMac. Go check out xbench, the eMac will score around 130 with its new bus speed and RAM, a single processor 1.8G5 scores 140 with what will be far superior architecture than what will be put into a consumer iMac. I think the 1.5G4 would be a better choice than a 1.4G5 at the moment, Apple needs to come in with fast G5's, not piss about with a 1.4. The iMac would have to be 1.8 and 2.0 to really make an impact.
Originally posted by msantti
Apple needs to get the G5 in the hands of more people and its the processor to truly make OS X shine.
It would be a travesty if Apple waited on putting the G5 in the iMac just so it could be in the PB first.
iMac sales SUCK people.
Hello?
that's just because the Imacs suck.....
has little to do with its bloody processor, the G4 is a great processor for consumers. I wish peeps would stop whinging about it.
I'm still on a 450MHz CRT iMac for my internet and such, running panther with very few complaints about it.
The LCD iMac could just never live up to the impact the original iMac made.
The current iMac is an interesting prototype, and it could have stayed just that.
I wouldn't mind owning one, but I don't WANNA buy one. That's where it's lacking.
iBook ditto.
PLEASE IVE GUY: open your i and bring some colour back into our lives!
cos your i is just not for I anymore
Originally posted by Amorph
If the iMac does go G5, it will be a break from the longstanding tradition that the iMac follows the PowerBook.
That wouldn't be a bad thing, and it doesn't mean that Apple won't do it. But an induction over previous updates says that we can expect iMacs with 1.33GHz and 1.5GHz G4s soon.
It might also make sense for Apple to hold off using the 970fx in a consumer machine until IBM is drowning in them. Better to stick with a proven design on a proven fab - or, failing that, the G4.
What about the obvious - the iMac enclosure is much bigger and more roomy than that of the powerbook thus cooling is less of an issue if an issue at all.
Originally posted by Amorph
On the other hand, Apple can't sell G5s they don't have. If IBM is just getting around to producing enough for the Xserve, then I think any possible iMac G5 release is not exactly imminent.
Unless the nature of IBM's problem was such that they went from sucking to producing more or less overnight, in which case PMs and iMacs could come out fairly quickly.
Well we can always hope for such a screw up. It would not be a surprise to me considering what I've experienced in manufacturing over the years. Atleast as far as the rumoured "glue" issue goes.
What bothers me about the 970FX is the fact that it was released at 2GHz in the XServe and nothing faster. Believe me I've heard all sorts of arguments about that but I still take it as a bad sign.
Quote:
They have been consistently mediocre since the LCD iMac's first quarter, which was its only good quarter.
Given that, I suspect that the CPU is not the only, or even the primary, concern with the current design.
It is a very big concern to me and probally others. The problem is do you really want to spend your hard earned cash on a machine that has such a awfully out dated compute system? That in a nut shell is what breaks the deal for me. Mac OS/X is not that good that it will cause one to over come the rather shocking price premium.
The killer is there is talk about another rev of the iMac to a faster G4! Does anybody out there think that that sort of rev would impact sales positively? The very people that this machine is targetted at expect fast flexible systems sitting on their desk at home. That is not an iMac.
Quote:
Originally posted by ~ufo~
the G4 is a great processor for consumers.
No, it isn't. It may be adequate for most tasks but by no means is it "great".
Originally posted by wizard69
What bothers me about the 970FX is the fact that it was released at 2GHz in the XServe and nothing faster. Believe me I've heard all sorts of arguments about that but I still take it as a bad sign.
I'm not too worried yet. Apple couldn't very well ship the Xserve at 2.5 with the towers still at 2.0; that would immediately kill tower sales until the next revision.
The killer is there is talk about another rev of the iMac to a faster G4! Does anybody out there think that that sort of rev would impact sales positively? The very people that this machine is targetted at expect fast flexible systems sitting on their desk at home. That is not an iMac.
Agreed. The iMac is a terrible value unless you *really* like the form factor. A G4 at 1.5GHz won't change that at all.
Apple and many others on these boards seem to mis an important concept. Consumers will not spend extra dollars over industry norms unless they believe they are getting a good value. Nothing powered by a G4 represents good value agianst what is available in the i86 world. The G5 is a stark admission to this reality. By the time the iMac is reved to G5 technology it will need to be running at atleast 2GHz to do the things that most consumers expect form their PC's.
Originally posted by MacGraham
a 1.4 G5....ha, you can keep that i'll have the new eMac instead. Roughly same speed and more than half the price Apple will want for even the entry level G5 iMac. Go check out xbench, the eMac will score around 130 with its new bus speed and RAM, a single processor 1.8G5 scores 140 with what will be far superior architecture than what will be put into a consumer iMac. I think the 1.5G4 would be a better choice than a 1.4G5 at the moment, Apple needs to come in with fast G5's, not piss about with a 1.4. The iMac would have to be 1.8 and 2.0 to really make an impact.
Originally posted by 3.1416
This is precisely what I'm talking about. Has anyone looked at the specs for a XServe, people it doesn't compete with the tower at all.
Besides if there was any basis for this argument then could somebody explain why CURRENT tower sales have tanked? Towers will sell and sell well when they are finally priced right for the performance that one gets out of them. It is rather clear that Apple hasn't gotten this right yet. Besides how many are really aware of the XServe and for that matter what a server even does when they are out shopping for a Mac?
If I sound frustrated it is becuase I want Apple to succeed and it doesn't look like things are going in the right direction if the G4 iMac rev rumored is indeed a fact.
It has recently been stated by Apples management team that they have been chasing revenue over market share. While I understand that revenue is important it does look like Apples management team has the same perception of the market place as the Amiga teams. Apple has to come with an agressive plan to increase market share without going broke. To focus only on revenue is foolish and targets the short term at the expense of sustainable growth.
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I'm not too worried yet. Apple couldn't very well ship the Xserve at 2.5 with the towers still at 2.0; that would immediately kill tower sales until the next revision.
Agreed. The iMac is a terrible value unless you *really* like the form factor. A G4 at 1.5GHz won't change that at all.
Originally posted by wizard69
This is precisely what I'm talking about. Has anyone looked at the specs for a XServe, people it doesn't compete with the tower at all.
The issue is not that everyone would immediately run out and get an Xserve instead of a PowerMac. The issue is that as soon as people saw an Xserve at, say, 2.5GHz they'd hold out for the PowerMac update that was obviously right around the corner. Apple played their cards right this time, given that there has not a PM update, months after the Xserve G5 was introduced.
Besides if there was any basis for this argument then could somebody explain why CURRENT tower sales have tanked?
Once you factor in channel inventory reduction, PowerMac sales are down maybe 5% this quarter. That's probably because some people are waiting for the traditional early spring refresh, and more likely because Q2 is always Apple's slowest quarter (one analyst expected iPod sales to drop 20% this quarter, to give you some idea).
A 5% drop is not tanking. The Cube's sales tanked. This is just a weak quarter.
Towers will sell and sell well when they are finally priced right for the performance that one gets out of them.
But they will never sell that well, because they're big desktops. Those are on their way out of favor. They'll always be around, and Apple will probably sell a couple hundred thousand per quarter - give or take - for a good while yet, but if you want to see where the growth is, look at the portables.
If I sound frustrated it is becuase I want Apple to succeed and it doesn't look like things are going in the right direction if the G4 iMac rev rumored is indeed a fact.
The only despairing reviews of the iMac I've seen come from tech-ish forums like this one and (especially) Ars. Federal Computer Week just posted a glowing review of the 20" iMac last week. Perhaps the iMac's greatest obstacle to acceptance is the small but vocal army of Mac and PC technical types (and wanna-bes) who scare people away from the machine. Every review that just sums up what the machine can do, and how well it does, continues to give the iMac high marks. There's a lot more to a computer than a system bus.
It has recently been stated by Apples management team that they have been chasing revenue over market share. [...] Apple has to come with an agressive plan to increase market share without going broke. To focus only on revenue is foolish and targets the short term at the expense of sustainable growth.
iPod.
As for focusing on revenue, have you seen Apple's stock lately? The bean-counters were tickled pink by Apple's last quarter. More revenue means more money to spend on R&D. More sources of revenue (software, iPod) means lower overall risk, because Apple doesn't have its eggs in one basket (Mac hardware sales) anymore. It also means more money for Mac hardware R&D. And, of course, for the business-y types who read the financial section of the paper, but don't know a gigahertz from a billion rental cars, this means positive mindshare for Apple in the minds of the people who control the purse strings, which means a better chance that they'll be considered seriously.