Al-Qaeda suicide bomb plot foiled in UK...

Posted:
in General Discussion edited January 2014
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Quote:

A SUICIDE bomb plot to kill thousands of soccer fans at Saturday?s Manchester United-Liverpool match was dramatically foiled yesterday.



Armed cops seized ten terror suspects in dawn raids.



Intelligence chiefs believe al-Qaeda fanatics planned to blow themselves up amid 67,000 unsuspecting supporters. A source said: ?The target was Old Trafford.?



The Islamic fanatics planned to sit all around the ground to cause maximum carnage.







I just have to wonder how public opinion would have been in the UK if this had succeeded. The War on Terror has gone global, indeed- US, Israel, Spain, Japan, Africa, now the UK.



I am sure that someone is going to make this Blair's fault for standing with the United States. (pfflam- are you there? )



People who want to do things like this must be eliminated or imprisoned. How can anyone bargain with people who would do such a thing?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 31
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Jubelum

    I am sure that someone is going to make this Blair's fault for standing with the United States. (pfflam- are you there?



    Did pfflam make that kind of argument somewhere?
  • Reply 2 of 31
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Jubelum

    People who want to do things like this must be eliminated or imprisoned. How can anyone bargain with people who would do such a thing?



    There can be no bargaining with cowards who kill innocents and call themselves terrorists...



    The problem is that the UK and the US are getting on to the hate list of more people by the day due to their foreign policies. There are plenty of idiots joining these organizations everyday due to their hatred for a nation / government. As a result of the near sighted policies in the middle east, many people there consider western governments to be their enemies; making it a breeding ground for more terrorists. In the cops and robbers game, the cops can catch the robbers only so many times... You need to stop painting yourself as a target.
  • Reply 3 of 31
    jubelumjubelum Posts: 4,490member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by talksense101

    There can be no bargaining with cowards who kill innocents and call themselves terrorists...



    The problem is that the UK and the US are getting on to the hate list of more people by the day due to their foreign policies. There are plenty of idiots joining these organizations everyday due to their hatred for a nation / government. As a result of the near sighted policies in the middle east, many people there consider western governments to be their enemies; making it a breeding ground for more terrorists. In the cops and robbers game, the cops can catch the robbers only so many times... You need to stop painting yourself as a target.




    So basically it IS our fault?



    I would like to hear some ideas of how we can get on Al-Q's "good" side.
  • Reply 4 of 31
    jubelumjubelum Posts: 4,490member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by giant

    Did pfflam make that kind of argument somewhere?



    Not directly, but if I throw some chum in the water (a chance to blame GWB for something) he'll usually show up with his characteristically pointed thrust.
  • Reply 5 of 31
    Read my post again to answer your question.



    You need to destroy organizations like Al-Q. The only way you can do that is by stopping the rapid growth of its numbers and eliminating public sympathy/support for it. There will always be few disgruntled idiots joining these outfits, but the current situation makes it worse for the war against these outfits.
  • Reply 6 of 31
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    The war on terrorism is two-fold as are all wars. There is the physical assault and there is the psychological aspect. We are losing the psychological war. Our goal in the middle east and elsewhere should be to show that the claims the terrorists make are patently false. That simply hasn't been done. In fact, we have done the opposite. So yes, we are to be blamed in having a failed strategy for this "war".
  • Reply 7 of 31
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Jubelum

    Not directly, but if I throw some chum in the water



    So your method of discourse is to knowingly misrepresent positions. Got it.
  • Reply 8 of 31
    jubelumjubelum Posts: 4,490member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by billybobsky

    The war on terrorism is two-fold as are all wars. There is the physical assault and there is the psychological aspect. We are losing the psychological war. Our goal in the middle east and elsewhere should be to show that the claims the terrorists make are patently false. That simply hasn't been done. In fact, we have done the opposite. So yes, we are to be blamed in having a failed strategy for this "war".



    Those are excellent points. I just wonder if the psychological battle is as much as failure as the media is showing. Surely there is some Iraqi happy somewhere that we are rebuilding and freeing Iraq.



    Much in the spirit of the excellent Segovius "Fundies" thread, can logic counter religious passion? - that is "To hell with the facts, we are serving God/Allah/etc"



    The US needs some PR. And quick. Al Jazeera, the house organ of the entire Muslim Terrorist complex, should have better competition from outlets that show the US position.
  • Reply 9 of 31
    jubelumjubelum Posts: 4,490member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by giant

    So your method of discourse is to knowingly misrepresent positions. Got it.



    I did not "knowingly misrepresent" his position.

    He's a big boy- let him post or PM me himself.



    Do you have anything to say on this topic, or are you just here to assail me?

    If so, I am humbled. Truly humbled.



  • Reply 10 of 31
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    Had they carried this out, the villains would have been al Qaeda. There is no excuse for killing innocents. Hateful, horrible people. Scum.



    We (the US and UK) are, however, creating more and more and more hatred and planting more and more seeds of suicide bombers. Our policies are creating more suicide bombers.



    See what I did there?



    And, incidentally, we've killed tens of thousands of civilian Iraqis (don't believe me? Google yourself a figure and share it with us).



    The ones left feel as bad as orphaned or widowed Americans or Spanish or British. Let's say 3 x WTC.



    They hate us, don't believe our motives for invading, hate the way that post 'independence' every governmental decision will have to be checked by the "US Embassy," and hate the way that they won't be able to ask US forces to leave. What kind of independence is that?
  • Reply 11 of 31
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Jubelum

    I did not "knowingly misrepresent" his position.

    He's a big boy- let him post or PM me himself.




    You made a trolling statement on an open forum. If you want to continue to knowingly misrepresent positions in order to get a reaction from a particular person, you and keep it to PM. Otherwise, it's part of the overall conversation, especially when it was addressed to everyone:

    Quote:

    I am sure that someone is going to make this Blair's fault for standing with the United States.



    Ah, look at that. You even misrepresented your own statement. That sure looks like a pre-emptive attempt to address a strawman. Nice.



    Have fun playing with your imagination and starting a thread just to troll.
  • Reply 12 of 31
    haraldharald Posts: 2,152member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Jubelum

    The US needs some PR. And quick. Al Jazeera, the house organ of the entire Muslim Terrorist complex, should have better competition from outlets that show the US position.



    Dude, it doesn't need PR. It needs to stop making OBL a very happy man through its actions.
  • Reply 13 of 31
    Well, I will try to bring you nearer the islamic perspective in this war on terror.



    The whole arabic world was colonized by England and France, then after worldwar2 puppet-regimes were installed and the colonies were let out into independence. These puppet-regimes were and are murderous dictatorships, but they are on the payroll of the USA, which not only finances their military but also trains them on everything from emprisoning to torturing to killing, in short they were trained to keep the country quiet and obient.



    During that the west espescially the US had/has special access to the ressources of these arabic countries, be it oil, gas or other ressources. While the governing dictator-ship or family-dynasty got immensely rich, most of the other people there suffered from extreme poverty, eventhough their country was able to provide them a better life, if the government would use the ressources for the good of its people instead for the good of the western nations.



    Add to that all of the wars the USA fought in the islamic countries, be it in the Iran/Iraq-war, be it in Afghanistan vs Sovietunion (which by the way costed 1.5 million lifes of the Afghans), be it in Lebanon or in Somalia.



    Add to that the fact of the creation of Israel among arabs, which is used as a control-platform in the middleeast, which drove out millions of palestinians from their own land, and which opresses and kills them even in the areas they took refuge in.



    I could go on endlessly with all the crimes committed in the islamic countries, which, weren't it for the endless interventions of the USA, would have become prosperous islamic democracies by now.



    All that and the continuing of all this and more, invokes only two thoughts in the minds and hearts of muslims worldwide and espescially in the islamic countries:

    1. The crimes must somehow be retaliated for.

    2. The west must somehow be stopped.



    But even if the islamic terrorists would do ten times 9/11 in the USA every year, the deaths in the islamic countries caused directly by the USA wouldn't be retaliated or revenged, it would just scratch it.



    The west has developed effective weapons, like planes that carry 1000 kilo-bombs, or jets with rockets, or tanks. The terrorist-groups use instead live humans who carry the bombs themselves and guide it to its destination.



    Civilians in the islamic countries died unnaturaly for the last sixty years in masses in wars of the west, and it still hasn't stopped. But for the first time in history the west is sensing some resistance from the islamic world, and a little bit of revenge.



    Nightcrawler
  • Reply 14 of 31
    wrong robotwrong robot Posts: 3,907member
    Where does the Qur'an fit into that?



    I often hear the argument that "the (sole) reason why islamic extremists want to kill us is because their holy text specifically tells them to(kill unbelievers that is)"



    I could never really buy that, and the reasons nightcrawler outlined make a lot more sense. But that's not to disregard the Qur'an...
  • Reply 15 of 31
    scottscott Posts: 7,431member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Nightcrawler

    Well, I will try to bring you nearer the islamic perspective in this war on terror.



    The whole arabic world was colonized by England and France, then after worldwar2 puppet-regimes were installed and the colonies were let out into independence. These puppet-regimes were and are murderous dictatorships, but they are on the payroll of the USA, which not only finances their military but also trains them on everything from emprisoning to torturing to killing, in short they were trained to keep the country quiet and obient.



    During that the west espescially the US had/has special access to the ressources of these arabic countries, be it oil, gas or other ressources. While the governing dictator-ship or family-dynasty got immensely rich, most of the other people there suffered from extreme poverty, eventhough their country was able to provide them a better life, if the government would use the ressources for the good of its people instead for the good of the western nations.



    Add to that all of the wars the USA fought in the islamic countries, be it in the Iran/Iraq-war, be it in Afghanistan vs Sovietunion (which by the way costed 1.5 million lifes of the Afghans), be it in Lebanon or in Somalia.



    Add to that the fact of the creation of Israel among arabs, which is used as a control-platform in the middleeast, which drove out millions of palestinians from their own land, and which opresses and kills them even in the areas they took refuge in.



    I could go on endlessly with all the crimes committed in the islamic countries, which, weren't it for the endless interventions of the USA, would have become prosperous islamic democracies by now.



    All that and the continuing of all this and more, invokes only two thoughts in the minds and hearts of muslims worldwide and espescially in the islamic countries:

    1. The crimes must somehow be retaliated for.

    2. The west must somehow be stopped.



    But even if the islamic terrorists would do ten times 9/11 in the USA every year, the deaths in the islamic countries caused directly by the USA wouldn't be retaliated or revenged, it would just scratch it.



    The west has developed effective weapons, like planes that carry 1000 kilo-bombs, or jets with rockets, or tanks. The terrorist-groups use instead live humans who carry the bombs themselves and guide it to its destination.



    Civilians in the islamic countries died unnaturaly for the last sixty years in masses in wars of the west, and it still hasn't stopped. But for the first time in history the west is sensing some resistance from the islamic world, and a little bit of revenge.



    Nightcrawler






    This must be the part of the thread where we make it up to fit our own bias.
  • Reply 16 of 31
    wrong robotwrong robot Posts: 3,907member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott

    This must be the part of the thread where we make it up to fit our own bias.





    yeah? care to impart some knowledge then? I am not very well versed in middle east history, but I'm trying to learn.
  • Reply 17 of 31
    Well, wrongrobot,



    the Quran fits in that regard, as it also outlines what to do when the islamic world is in war with another nation:



    1. When the islamic world is attacked, the muslims should defend themselfes. For that purpose the dschihad should be called out, it's like a war-draft.



    2. If civilians are killed by the opponent, retaliation has to be executed, in the form of killing the same amount of civilians of the opponent's people.



    3. If the own people are droven out of their homes and lands, the landthieves should be droven out again.



    4. War should be sustained until the opponent stops his attacks and withdraws.



    5. Never allow another might, be it christian or jewish or atheistic to play the protector for you.



    That is very basically what the Quran has to say to warfare.



    Nightcrawler
  • Reply 18 of 31
    eric jeric j Posts: 43member
    Hi,



    I have a knowledgable friend. He tells me that the most popular postcard among young Arabic people, bought in thousands, depicts Osama Bin Laden. I have no way of verifying this statement, but normally he is a reliable and objective source.



    Apropos democracy:



    In Western Europe and the USA we have a concept, developed over centuries. Today it differs a lot from the early phase. Is it reasonable to expect that other cultures will (or believe it good to), jump vast time spans in a year or two?



    I know some people, young among them, from formerly communist regimes who today say they would trade some civil liberty for safety on the streets and security of an, even modest, income.



    Sometimes, IMHO, we fail to place ourselves in the shoes of the many millions less fortunate than we in the West.



    A plea for empathy with the majority of the World's population.



    Peace



    eric j
  • Reply 19 of 31
    alcimedesalcimedes Posts: 5,486member
    Quote:

    I would like to hear some ideas of how we can get on Al-Q's "good" side.



    blow up isreal?
  • Reply 20 of 31
    frank777frank777 Posts: 5,789member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Nightcrawler

    ...That is very basically what the Quran has to say to warfare.



    Nightcrawler




    Next time, try to quote what the Quran says, when you're trying to say what the Quran says.
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