I think that the thing that is spearheading the attack on Kerry is a missunderstanding of the nature of the 'Winter Soldier' testimony . . . it is a letter that expresses the thoughts and statements of many soldiers, some of whom said that they committed atrocities . . .
plus, someone who kills another person can easily look inward and feel that they have committed an atrocity . . . they may have had to do it as soldiers in war . . . and it wouldn't, in itself merit stating that one had committed an atrocity, but it could reasonably be felt to be one.
plus, someone who kills another person can easily look inward and feel that they have committed an atrocity . . . they may have had to do it as soldiers in war . . . and it wouldn't, in itself merit stating that one had committed an atrocity, but it could reasonably be felt to be one.
Well said, pfflam. The psychological toll being in war takes on the soldiers is one that is often underestimated and only felt by a few.*
-t
*perhaps this is a defense mechanism. Some are "fortunate" enough to be able to use these defense mechanisms very well.
Actually it did answer the question. I don't think it was hard though. Kerry finds it easy to repeat lies to further his political career.
No I asked for evidence that he used the ridiculous language with which it was suggested by trumpterboy earlier in the thread. If you ever find it I would like to see it.
And yes, Kerry is a politician. He like the majority of politicians repeat mistruths to furthere his political career.
Your statement is analogous to saying "A Nascar driver finds it okay to bump the other cars a bit if he ends up crossing the finish line first."
Gosh, Kerry might have gotten his first purple heart in Vietnam, where he fought, for something that thirty year later we find lame. Meanwhle, back at the ranch (where he's on vacation) George W "I was invisible in the 70's" record is sacrosanct. Not to mention Dick "Other Priorities" Cheney.
No I asked for evidence that he used the ridiculous language with which it was suggested by trumpterboy earlier in the thread. If you ever find it I would like to see it.
And yes, Kerry is a politician. He like the majority of politicians repeat mistruths to furthere his political career.
Your statement is analogous to saying "A Nascar driver finds it okay to bump the other cars a bit if he ends up crossing the finish line first."
Thank you captain Obvious.
He posted to it and even linked to it. You ignored it.
Even as a young naval officer he must have at least been thinking about political involvement, as evidenced by his request for an early discharge to work on a political campaign in Massachusetts.
Politicians are like ducks. Even young ones have to ooze a certain oiliness to keep their feathers dry.
Phillips Andover Academy, meet Swiss Boarding School; Yale education, meet Yale education; rich grandson of a Connecticut senator, meet rich son of a foreign service diplomat; Harvard MBA, meet Boston College lawyer.
Like I said, nice link... I suppose you agree with the conclusion as much as I do...
Quote:
But maybe Kerry deserves the benefit of doubt on his first Purple Heart.
He admits the wound was minor and didn't cost him time off duty. He'd probably admit that some men in Vietnam might have had more serious injuries for which they didn't receive a Purple Heart. It happens.
As for the part about the wound not being inflicted by the enemy, in which case the shrapnel's source would have been "friendly fire," that in itself doesn't exclude a Purple Heart. The key circumstance is that the injury occurred while engaged with the enemy, who might be trying to flee and not returning fire.
And if we're to raise an eyebrow at Kerry's requesting the Purple Heart through the proper channels, he would have been neither the first nor the last officer to grub for medals. They look good on the uniform and even better on the resume.
The main thing is, he didn't award it to himself, even if his commanding officer might have approved the request to his "chagrin."
So enough about Kerry and his medals. Turn it over and stick a fork in it already; it's done.
Phillips Andover Academy, meet Swiss Boarding School; Yale education, meet Yale education; rich grandson of a Connecticut senator, meet rich son of a foreign service diplomat; Harvard MBA, meet Boston College lawyer.
God Bless our great democratic process which offers us such a distinctive choice. A Choice, not an Echo - Phyllis Schlafly knew exactly what she was talking about!
Like I said, nice link... I suppose you agree with the conclusion as much as I do...
Oh I have other links that mention the same information but don't come to the same conclusion. However then /Editor-Shawn would spend several dozen posts complaining about the source.
Here this one doesn't give Kerry the benefit of a happy dance. This one digs much deeper into it as well.
God Bless our great democratic process which offers us such a distinctive choice. A Choice, not an Echo - Phyllis Schlafly knew exactly what she was talking about!
Why is there no emoticon for "I can't believe Schlafly and I agree on something"?
Oh I have other links that mention the same information but don't come to the same conclusion. However then /Editor-Shawn would spend several dozen posts complaining about the source.
Backpedal and blame it all on someone else - congratulations, you are learning from your heros.
Quote:
Here this one doesn't give Kerry the benefit of a happy dance. This one digs much deeper into it as well.
Now this link is not nearly so impressive. Bravo, welcome back to form. This is a REACTIONARY, politically-motivated, semi-fringe Clinton-bashing site and publication from way back. I enjoyed reading their current "insights" - their preconceived notions and contorted logic are almost as apparent as yours.
As in the last link, I find the conclusion of this article especially telling...
Quote:
Indeed, Kerry said, he knew men who in Vietnam "had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks and generally ravaged the countryside." Addressing the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 22, 1971, about these and other alleged war crimes, he called on the United States to pay "extensive reparations."
Ah, the final proof of Kerry's traitorous ways. At least the message is consistant... how DARE he follow his conscience instead of keeping his mouth shut!!
He posted to it and even linked to it. You ignored it.
Nick
Wrong again. I read it and responded. (Scroll up the page) Nowhere in the link from the Winter Soldiers testimony did he ever use those words.
I am still waiting for you to answer my question regarding your service in the military. Did you serve? Does that give you the right to criticize soldiers?
The way you constantly attack veterans who survived against incredible odds, disgusts me. As the son of a Vietnam Vet who earned a purple heart, your comments offend me.
Why is there no emoticon for "I can't believe Schlafly and I agree on something"?
What makes this really funny for me, is that I was roommates in college with her nephew who had the same last name. He always made sure to tell people that she was his aunt by marriage, and that she was even more full of crap than you thought she was.
Wrong again. I read it and responded. (Scroll up the page) Nowhere in the link from the Winter Soldiers testimony did he ever use those words.
I am still waiting for you to answer my question regarding your service in the military. Did you serve? Does that give you the right to criticize soldiers?
The way you constantly attack veterans who survived against incredible odds, disgusts me. As the son of a Vietnam Vet who earned a purple heart, your comments offend me.
Judge not lest you be judged Troll.
I had a swim coach when I was in middle and high school (the best and most influential of many coaches I had from 8 to 18 ), who had a Purple Heart for a kneefull of shrapnel from enlisted duty in Vietnam. He absolutely never talked about it, except for once, with a friend's older brother who was doing a high school paper on the war. I read the paper, and saw stories of seeing all but one other guy in his unit get blown to pieces.... hiding in the grass from a VC patrol and using every fiber of being to keep silent while covered from head to toe with ANTS.... losing his knee just before climbing into the extraction copter... shit, it was like a really good movie script, but years before even Deer Hunter or any other Vietnam movie.
None of my relatives in the war, but I think I know where you're coming from, buckeye.
Comments
Originally posted by torifile
So protesting somehow discounts all previous service? ...
No but repeating vicious lies about the people you served with is questionable.
Originally posted by Scott
No but repeating vicious lies about the people you served with is questionable.
And that somehow means he didn't serve or deserve the accolades he received? I'm confused now.
plus, someone who kills another person can easily look inward and feel that they have committed an atrocity . . . they may have had to do it as soldiers in war . . . and it wouldn't, in itself merit stating that one had committed an atrocity, but it could reasonably be felt to be one.
Originally posted by pfflam
plus, someone who kills another person can easily look inward and feel that they have committed an atrocity . . . they may have had to do it as soldiers in war . . . and it wouldn't, in itself merit stating that one had committed an atrocity, but it could reasonably be felt to be one.
Well said, pfflam. The psychological toll being in war takes on the soldiers is one that is often underestimated and only felt by a few.*
-t
*perhaps this is a defense mechanism. Some are "fortunate" enough to be able to use these defense mechanisms very well.
hehe... keep bringing up that Kerry was actually IN Vietnam... it just makes Bush look worse.
Originally posted by Scott
Actually it did answer the question. I don't think it was hard though. Kerry finds it easy to repeat lies to further his political career.
No I asked for evidence that he used the ridiculous language with which it was suggested by trumpterboy earlier in the thread. If you ever find it I would like to see it.
And yes, Kerry is a politician. He like the majority of politicians repeat mistruths to furthere his political career.
Your statement is analogous to saying "A Nascar driver finds it okay to bump the other cars a bit if he ends up crossing the finish line first."
Thank you captain Obvious.
Originally posted by ShawnJ
This is not general knowledge; therefore, you should cite it. <---I know it hasn't been that long since you wrote your last college paper!
</editor>
Dear editor,
Learn to use google. All the kids nowadays can. If you don't want your job shipped to India, I suggest you start updating your skill set.
General May I
Nick
Spare me.
Originally posted by buckeye
No I asked for evidence that he used the ridiculous language with which it was suggested by trumpterboy earlier in the thread. If you ever find it I would like to see it.
And yes, Kerry is a politician. He like the majority of politicians repeat mistruths to furthere his political career.
Your statement is analogous to saying "A Nascar driver finds it okay to bump the other cars a bit if he ends up crossing the finish line first."
Thank you captain Obvious.
He posted to it and even linked to it. You ignored it.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
General May I
nice link
Even as a young naval officer he must have at least been thinking about political involvement, as evidenced by his request for an early discharge to work on a political campaign in Massachusetts.
Politicians are like ducks. Even young ones have to ooze a certain oiliness to keep their feathers dry.
George, meet John. Alabama, meet Massachusetts. Pot, meet Kettle.
Originally posted by FormerLurker
nice link
George, meet John. Alabama, meet Massachusetts. Pot, meet Kettle.
Phillips Andover Academy, meet Swiss Boarding School; Yale education, meet Yale education; rich grandson of a Connecticut senator, meet rich son of a foreign service diplomat; Harvard MBA, meet Boston College lawyer.
But maybe Kerry deserves the benefit of doubt on his first Purple Heart.
He admits the wound was minor and didn't cost him time off duty. He'd probably admit that some men in Vietnam might have had more serious injuries for which they didn't receive a Purple Heart. It happens.
As for the part about the wound not being inflicted by the enemy, in which case the shrapnel's source would have been "friendly fire," that in itself doesn't exclude a Purple Heart. The key circumstance is that the injury occurred while engaged with the enemy, who might be trying to flee and not returning fire.
And if we're to raise an eyebrow at Kerry's requesting the Purple Heart through the proper channels, he would have been neither the first nor the last officer to grub for medals. They look good on the uniform and even better on the resume.
The main thing is, he didn't award it to himself, even if his commanding officer might have approved the request to his "chagrin."
So enough about Kerry and his medals. Turn it over and stick a fork in it already; it's done.
Originally posted by midwinter
Phillips Andover Academy, meet Swiss Boarding School; Yale education, meet Yale education; rich grandson of a Connecticut senator, meet rich son of a foreign service diplomat; Harvard MBA, meet Boston College lawyer.
God Bless our great democratic process which offers us such a distinctive choice. A Choice, not an Echo - Phyllis Schlafly knew exactly what she was talking about!
Originally posted by FormerLurker
George, meet John. Alabama, meet Massachusetts. Pot, meet Kettle.
And it just makes you wonder who these guys are going to vote for if this makes kerry unelectable to them, since clearly Bush is not an option.
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Like I said, nice link... I suppose you agree with the conclusion as much as I do...
Oh I have other links that mention the same information but don't come to the same conclusion. However then /Editor-Shawn would spend several dozen posts complaining about the source.
Here this one doesn't give Kerry the benefit of a happy dance. This one digs much deeper into it as well.
Nick
Originally posted by FormerLurker
God Bless our great democratic process which offers us such a distinctive choice. A Choice, not an Echo - Phyllis Schlafly knew exactly what she was talking about!
Why is there no emoticon for "I can't believe Schlafly and I agree on something"?
Originally posted by trumptman
Oh I have other links that mention the same information but don't come to the same conclusion. However then /Editor-Shawn would spend several dozen posts complaining about the source.
Backpedal and blame it all on someone else - congratulations, you are learning from your heros.
Here this one doesn't give Kerry the benefit of a happy dance. This one digs much deeper into it as well.
Now this link is not nearly so impressive. Bravo, welcome back to form. This is a REACTIONARY, politically-motivated, semi-fringe Clinton-bashing site and publication from way back. I enjoyed reading their current "insights" - their preconceived notions and contorted logic are almost as apparent as yours.
As in the last link, I find the conclusion of this article especially telling...
Indeed, Kerry said, he knew men who in Vietnam "had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks and generally ravaged the countryside." Addressing the Senate Foreign Relations Committee on April 22, 1971, about these and other alleged war crimes, he called on the United States to pay "extensive reparations."
Ah, the final proof of Kerry's traitorous ways. At least the message is consistant... how DARE he follow his conscience instead of keeping his mouth shut!!
Originally posted by trumptman
He posted to it and even linked to it. You ignored it.
Nick
Wrong again. I read it and responded. (Scroll up the page) Nowhere in the link from the Winter Soldiers testimony did he ever use those words.
I am still waiting for you to answer my question regarding your service in the military. Did you serve? Does that give you the right to criticize soldiers?
The way you constantly attack veterans who survived against incredible odds, disgusts me. As the son of a Vietnam Vet who earned a purple heart, your comments offend me.
Judge not lest you be judged Troll.
Originally posted by midwinter
Why is there no emoticon for "I can't believe Schlafly and I agree on something"?
What makes this really funny for me, is that I was roommates in college with her nephew who had the same last name. He always made sure to tell people that she was his aunt by marriage, and that she was even more full of crap than you thought she was.
Originally posted by buckeye
Wrong again. I read it and responded. (Scroll up the page) Nowhere in the link from the Winter Soldiers testimony did he ever use those words.
I am still waiting for you to answer my question regarding your service in the military. Did you serve? Does that give you the right to criticize soldiers?
The way you constantly attack veterans who survived against incredible odds, disgusts me. As the son of a Vietnam Vet who earned a purple heart, your comments offend me.
Judge not lest you be judged Troll.
I had a swim coach when I was in middle and high school (the best and most influential of many coaches I had from 8 to 18 ), who had a Purple Heart for a kneefull of shrapnel from enlisted duty in Vietnam. He absolutely never talked about it, except for once, with a friend's older brother who was doing a high school paper on the war. I read the paper, and saw stories of seeing all but one other guy in his unit get blown to pieces.... hiding in the grass from a VC patrol and using every fiber of being to keep silent while covered from head to toe with ANTS.... losing his knee just before climbing into the extraction copter... shit, it was like a really good movie script, but years before even Deer Hunter or any other Vietnam movie.
None of my relatives in the war, but I think I know where you're coming from, buckeye.