Political wars on AO

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  • Reply 21 of 68
    dviantdviant Posts: 483member
    Like or dislike the particular posters viewpoints there's always some interesting read or issue that AO brings up to me. Political discussions will always have a tendency to degenerate to us vs them, nature of the game. Think its worth wading through the bs to be more informed/aware of current events.
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  • Reply 22 of 68
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by dviant

    us vs them



    But most political discussions here at AO are on national security issues and foreign policy. The "us vs. them" model is just an illusion. We've seen in multiple threads that folks identify with a wide variety of political ideologies. There really are no clear-cut lines.



    For example, is there even a kerry camp here? Look at shawn's sig, and he's probably as far to the left as we get here on AO. But the people wanting bush out come from all over the political spectrum. Hell, if things keep continuing as they are, we will probably have a record number of repubs voting for the democratic candidate.

    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    A lot of people on here seem to either be students or young enough in their life that they haven't left the service sector grind yet.



    First, as billybobsky said, education is about as pure service as you can get.



    Edit: Found a great sevice-good continuum graphic on wikipedia:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:S..._continuum.png



    Second, I see a totally different picture of AO. I see a large number of individuals with graduate degrees, a number of people that have served in the military, a number of people with kids and a obviously a very large number of individuals already situated in career paths. The other big group seems to be college students (and apparently pretty ambitious and skilled ones, at that) with a minority of younger individuals mixed in.
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  • Reply 23 of 68
    dviantdviant Posts: 483member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by giant

    [B]But most political discussions here at AO are on national security issues and foreign policy. The "us vs. them" model is just an illusion. We've seen in multiple threads that folks identify with a wide variety of political ideologies. There really are no clear-cut lines.



    Not in the broad sense necessarily, but a lot of our threads degenerate into two sides be it down party lines or simple for/against an issue. Political dodgeball match where the teams are usually the same but now and then someone switches to the other side. Sometimes people don't want to play either, but mostly we join teams.
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  • Reply 24 of 68
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by billybobsky

    Nick, you are assuming that people here will lose their sense of their connection to other humans. You mock the service sector of which as an educator you are part of. This revelation isn't a shock really, but do you even care if your students learn anything? I am not trying to attack you, I just want to know why you consider the service sector a grind, and if it is a grind, why are you in it? Some of us, in particular me, actually see a great deal of good in a service sector job be it a physician or a teacher.



    I think you are mistaking my definition. Just as there are blue collar and white collar jobs when it comes other areas of the economy, this is true in services as well.



    I meant services like working retail, working fast food, things of that nature. I thought that was pretty clear from the McJobs reference.



    Nick
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  • Reply 25 of 68
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    I think you are mistaking my definition. Just as there are blue collar and white collar jobs when it comes other areas of the economy, this is true in services as well.



    I meant services like working retail, working fast food, things of that nature. I thought that was pretty clear from the McJobs reference.



    Nick




    Sorry, no it wasn't. The standard definition of the service sector covers all of what you just mentioned, education and health as well as a few other areas where direct contact with people is a requirement of the job... Its ok... I take back my challenge but be careful the next time using the term...
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  • Reply 26 of 68
    giantgiant Posts: 6,041member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    A lot of people on here seem to either be students or young enough in their life that they haven't left the service sector grind yet. In some ways, the nature of their world makes it easy for them to disagree with me...



    I meant services like working retail, working fast food, things of that nature.




    If anyone wants to know how 'disagreements' start, it's when people post stuff like the above.



    You know what would be real interesting? To go through your last locked thread and note the age, academic level and profession of each of the posters.



    It's pretty clear that the vast majority of posters in that thread are or have at least one of the following: your age or older, higher level of formal education and/or militrary experience than you, higher income.



    Your characterization above is grossly inaccurate.
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  • Reply 27 of 68
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by billybobsky

    Sorry, no it wasn't. The standard definition of the service sector covers all of what you just mentioned, education and health as well as a few other areas where direct contact with people is a requirement of the job... Its ok... I take back my challenge but be careful the next time using the term...



    See below..



    Services sector Based on the North American Industry Classification System this includes trade; transportation and warehousing; finance, insurance, real estate and leasing; professional, scientific and technical services; management, administrative and other support; educational services; health care and social assistance; information, culture and recreation; accommodation and food services; other services (e.g., laundry, repair, civic organizations); and public administration. Also referred to as the Service Producing Industries.



    Note the words food services...



    It's a broad definition, but industry standard. If you don't feel they are part of the service sector, state where you think McJobs go. Construction? Manufacturing? Farming?



    I don't mind the challenge. I don't even mind being wrong if that ends up being the case. Just back it up with info and not insults.



    Nick
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  • Reply 28 of 68
    addaboxaddabox Posts: 12,665member
    Now I know ya'll ain't gonna succumb to the far to obvious irony of letting this thread get overheated.....
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  • Reply 29 of 68
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by giant

    If anyone wants to know how 'disagreements' start, it's when people post stuff like the above.



    You know what would be real interesting? To go through your last locked thread and note the age, academic level and profession of each of the posters.



    It's pretty clear that the vast majority of posters in that thread are or have at least one of the following: your age or older, higher level of formal education and/or militrary experience than you, higher income.



    Your characterization above is grossly inaccurate.




    Actually your own post is a perfect example of how threads go down into flames.



    Your post is

    1 part parsing (I don't like your word, thread title, source)

    1 part asserting something with no backing

    5-7 parts personal insults.



    As for assertions about age, income, education, etc. Feel free to back them. You can start with yourself.



    Nick
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  • Reply 30 of 68
    powerdocpowerdoc Posts: 8,123member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by addabox

    Now I know ya'll ain't gonna succumb to the far to obvious irony of letting this thread get overheated.....



    And you did not have to use a christal ball to guess this one.



    I don't know if I should laugh or if I should cry ? \
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  • Reply 31 of 68
    dviantdviant Posts: 483member
    Let the dodgeball teams commence...



    PICK ME! PICK ME!
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  • Reply 32 of 68
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    See below..



    Services sector Based on the North American Industry Classification System this includes trade; transportation and warehousing; finance, insurance, real estate and leasing; professional, scientific and technical services; management, administrative and other support; educational services; health care and social assistance; information, culture and recreation; accommodation and food services; other services (e.g., laundry, repair, civic organizations); and public administration. Also referred to as the Service Producing Industries.



    Note the words food services...



    It's a broad definition, but industry standard. If you don't feel they are part of the service sector, state where you think McJobs go. Construction? Manufacturing? Farming?



    I don't mind the challenge. I don't even mind being wrong if that ends up being the case. Just back it up with info and not insults.



    Nick




    Huh? I said McJobs are service sector... but the definition included more than that...
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  • Reply 33 of 68
    cosmonutcosmonut Posts: 4,872member
    And the pissing goes on. Have fun proving this thread's point by making complete fools of yourselves, guys.



    What IS it with you people?
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  • Reply 34 of 68
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by addabox

    Now I know ya'll ain't gonna succumb to the far to obvious irony of letting this thread get overheated.....



    I'm not overheated, but I'm still glad it happened. Maybe now we can show the mods clearly what is happening around here. People are personalizing disagreements to the point that ll they can do is demonize and attack each other.



    Quote:

    Originally posted by Powerdoc

    And you did not have to use a christal ball to guess this one.



    I don't know if I should laugh or if I should cry ? \




    You don't have to laugh or cry. Some temp bans should clear up this problem quite well lets look at it up close.



    Here is what I said that was specifically disagreed with.



    Quote:

    A lot of people on here seem to either be students or young enough in their life that they haven't left the service sector grind yet.



    I was referring to entry level jobs. I call them McJobs.



    Now regardless of how well my intent was communicated, if someone was concerned about the intent, they could just ask for clarification. Instead we get this...



    Quote:

    Nick, you are assuming that people here will lose their sense of their connection to other humans. You mock the service sector of which as an educator you are part of. This revelation isn't a shock really, but do you even care if your students learn anything? I am not trying to attack you, I just want to know why you consider the service sector a grind, and if it is a grind, why are you in it? Some of us, in particular me, actually see a great deal of good in a service sector job be it a physician or a teacher.



    I mean this is nothing but accusations. First I am suggesting that people will basically become dehumanized. I mock an entire sector of the economy. It isn?t a shock because Billy already knows I am secretly Satan. Lastly I can?t possibly care about my job or my students.



    I mean is it really so hard to say ?Nick, did you mean stockbrokers, real estate agents, teachers and so forth or just cashiers, fast food cooks and so on.? Why the vitrol?



    Then we have giant.



    Quote:

    To go through your last locked thread and note the age, academic level and profession of each of the posters.



    It's pretty clear that the vast majority of posters in that thread are or have at least one of the following: your age or older, higher level of formal education and/or militrary experience than you, higher income.



    Your characterization above is grossly inaccurate.





    Now the last sentence, that is permissable when people are having a discussion. However is it necessary to claim that I must be uneducated and poor just because my service sector statement doesn?t meet his tastes?



    I said who I was speaking to and I didn?t claim to be everyone on this board. Yet the level of personal attack was quickly elevated. Instead of a clarification we get ?You are dehumanizing, mock thousands, hate your job, and students, are secretly Satan, immature, stupid and of course poor.? All in two posts.



    Those types of posts should get people warned and then temp banned. Not agreeing with an idea, even strongly, does not require personally disparaging the poster.



    Nick
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  • Reply 35 of 68
    quagmirequagmire Posts: 558member
    My train of thought for the presidential race is ABB(anybody but Bush). I don't care if kerry or nader wins. Just get Bush out. I really prefer Kerry, but if somehow Nader makes a strong come back from behind win I will be ok.
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  • Reply 36 of 68
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    1) I don't mind the heat and the debate is fun.

    2) This is an election year, and however popular the president is at the moment, his election polarized the country

    3) The real problem with a lot of the heat is that there are people here (myself included) who will argue with a brick wall.



    Cheers

    Scott
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  • Reply 37 of 68
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    I'm not overheated, but I'm still glad it happened. Maybe now we can show the mods clearly what is happening around here. People are personalizing disagreements to the point that ll they can do is demonize and attack each other.



    Nick




    Nick, I wasn't insulting you if you weren't insulting McJobs. I asked those questions because I wanted to know the answers and not engage in a battle about your misuse of the term service sector.
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  • Reply 38 of 68
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by midwinter

    1) I don't mind the heat and the debate is fun.

    2) This is an election year, and however popular the president is at the moment, his election polarized the country

    3) The real problem with a lot of the heat is that there are people here (myself included) who will argue with a brick wall.



    Cheers

    Scott








    No you won't.





    Nick
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  • Reply 39 of 68
    trumptmantrumptman Posts: 16,464member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by billybobsky

    Nick, I wasn't insulting you if you weren't insulting McJobs. I asked those questions because I wanted to know the answers and not engage in a battle about your misuse of the term service sector.



    Then do me the favor of just asking the question. The statements about my nature and how it must be evil, uncaring, etc. are unnecessary.



    Nick
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  • Reply 40 of 68
    billybobskybillybobsky Posts: 1,914member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by trumptman

    Then do me the favor of just asking the question. The statements about my nature and how it must be evil, uncaring, etc. are unnecessary.



    Nick




    I didn't say your nature was evil. :/...



    I really didn't mean to offend at all.. I am a nice guy (at times)...
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