Not a bad machine, I personally would've went with a slower Athlon XP and a better graphics card, but we all have our preferences. Anyways, hope you enjoy the PC. Come back to the mac soon!
I use both XP and 2000 extensively at work and at home and can't quite agree with that. XP uses the same core as 2000. If you do not like the GUI of XP, it can easily be turned off so you cannot tell the difference bwteen w2k and XP.
I say if your really going to settle on a mac then find an old DP tower like a dual 800 or if you can afford it then go for the dual 1Ghz and get a CRT simply because I like them better
[quote]I use both XP and 2000 extensively at work and at home and can't quite agree with that. XP uses the same core as 2000.<hr></blockquote>
i'm a sys admin at a large university. i help out a few hundred professors to keep their machines up and running. (they get hand holding big time)
i can tell you right now that i have seen a wide variety of problems in XP that i've never seen in win2k. some of the worst are related to either older scientific hardware, or multiple user accounts. (a friend's C: drive is now a warcraft cd. he can't get his C: back, it really thinks it's supposed to be warcraft. that his brother installed on another account, so he can't make changes to it anyway)
in any case, i have seen dozens of problems with XP that just never cropped up on win2k machines. as for the GUI, i couldn't care less.
I think the OS, just like anything else in the computer market, is just a personal opinion. Win98 may be better than XP for some, and XP may be better than 2000 for others, and so on. Basically, it all depends upon the tasks that are being done and who is using it.
Note - And of course Mac is for everyone because it is better than all of 'em.
I have no doubt that your experience is valid. XP is pickier re its hardware requirement. The multiple user feature that allows an user to logon without requiring another to log off is not present in w2k (or Mac for that matter - I wish does!) so it's really unfair to pick on XP for that.
As for GUI, I just mentioned that so if people want XP but want it to look like w2k - there is that option.
Nice new system man. Agreed on the graphics -- I did the same thing you did. Bought a cheap video card when I built my computer in anticipation of the GeForce 4's release. My GF4 is in the mail now.
Nice new system man. Agreed on the graphics -- I did the same thing you did. Bought a cheap video card when I built my computer in anticipation of the GeForce 4's release. My GF4 is in the mail now.
The Radeon 9700 will kick ass.
What kind of motherboard did you get?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Way to go on the GF4. I'll decide around Christmas what way I'm going with the video card.
The chipset is QDI Kudoz 7A. Kinda a no-name, but these guys have built a lot of systems and have had trouble with some of the better board makers, and have about 1% problems with this board.
I'd really, really stress you go for a name brand mobo and a chipset that people have heard of. Via, nVidia, SiS, and ALi all make some good chipsets.
Do you have a link to said chipset?
EDIT: Ahh, I see, that's not the chipset, it's the mobo. Still, why get a no name mobo with a vanilla KT266A when there are plenty of excellent choices for the same price?
I love the show, and was watching an episode hosted by adam sessler(of extended play fame) and megan . at anyrate the shohis episode. and one of the things they had was(the coolest thing ever)
a large PC tower with a gamecube, a PS2, an xbox...and a cpu running some Windows(I saw a front panel to a high end soundblaster card...most likely there was a high end video card in there as well....at any rate...this guy Yoshi who is the screen savers hardware guru...built this monster box...and if you ask me...it is the ultimate gaming solution....all three next gen systems in one box...and a gaming pc to boot(not that you want a PC)
but since thats not a real option....DEFINATLY go for the tower....if the iMac had BTO geforce4(not mx) then I wouldn't be as sure.
but since a gamer needs three things, ram, expandability and games....a tower is the only way to go...but wait till the new powermacs are revealed...cause they will be more powerful...and rumours have it they will support more max amounts of ram
I know what u said in your post, and i'm sure i'll get flamed for this one but here goes, If all you are going to do is play games on ur computer, just buy a pc. It's about the only thing that they are good for. If you buy quality parts, XP is leaps ahead of 98 for stability, it's no OsX but you can get an encredibly cool gaming box for cheap, run more games, and won't have to wait a couple months to buy new games. Just buy the parts and build one yourself.
Yes, i know i'm supporting wintel and should burn in hell for it, but i could never justify paying the bucks just for playing games.
Oh btw, i bought neverwinter nights 3 weeks ago and already beat it, IMHO it's way over rated and lame, you can only get to lvl 20. The game is easy, and the plot is pretty straight forward. However, it does have a pretty good game engine.
<strong>What I would've done is gone on smalldog or somewhere and looked for a dual 800 G4 w/GeForce 3 card. I think you can get those cheap now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Um not by my definition of cheap you can't. I couldn't see one on small dog or at Red Tag, but on E-bay there's an auction closing 31 July for "Apple MAC G4 DUAL 800 800mhz/768/80 Superdrve
$2,136.00" (No monitor and that's not necessarily the final bid). And that's with the GF 2 MX, not the Ti 3.
Thats, oh, $450-$500 US more than I paid for my new system. And dude, I guarantee you that Dualie could hold a candle to this Athlon XP 2100+. And hey, mines under warranty. The dualie 800 would be costing you out of pocker for repairs, etc.
Frankly, the story for Apple gets worse and worse as I use the system. Windows XP isn't bad to use. Not too clunky, and no more complicated to optimize than OSX (not much more complicated that 8.6, what I was regularly using). With the kind of computing power you can buy on the PC side, you can buy enough RAM to make up for the memory hoggishness of Windows. Not that Apple can talk anyways, the memory requirements for OSX are way beyond what they were supposed to be 4 years ago when they said the iMac rev. A would run OSX.
Anyway, I hope Apple gets themselves together this year, cuz otherwise their marketshare is only going to get smaller and smaller. They are fascist nasties, but AMD/Intel/M$ sure are giving value for the dollar at the moment.
Wilson's 'case' seems to summarise alot of the 'bleeding' from the Mac platform...at all price points.
Yeesh. It irks me that Apple doesn't have an expandable machine under £1,350 inc Vat.
It's ludicrous. They are losing sales this way.
And these sales matter because Dell ARE selling loads of PCs still in a saturated market.
Apple should have a cheap tower under £1,000.
It's ridiculous that they don't. Their business model is too rigid. You're either an eMac, an iMac or a 'power'Mac. Two of which aren't expandable. I'm a Mac fan...but I can't defend such 'narrowness'. If you're this 'narrow' you ARE going to lose sales against a divergent PC market.
Cept...the 'power'Macs...aren't that 'power'ful.
For a gaming system...you should be able to drop £1000 on Apple's lap...and go and upgrade the video card if you want to. But...you can't.
Nobody is paying £2000 for computers these days. The average buy is £1000. Apple better wake up and smell the coffee on this one.
Now...Wilson. I've been with Windows 2K for just almost two years now. I can tell you this.
I...hate...it. I bought for exactly the reasons (amongst others...it was a mandatory purchase for a course I was doing...) you did. I don't enjoy working on it. I have more fun on my wife's iBook. Sure..the speed was nice to begin with and I even upgraded it. But...
Now? I'm waiting to 'go back to Mac'.
I'm desperately hanging on for a 7500 dual 'G5' Mac on Rio with a Radeon or Nvidia card. I may be waiting for another 'year' at this rate of going.
Surprised you didn't consider the widescreen iMac.
Nice machine. The boosted Geforce 4Mx offers performance 'just behind' the Geforce 3 in many benches. Go look at the front page of Tomshardware.com and click on the graphic card comparisons. You'll be surprised to find that in many cases it offers 70% ish of the performance for much less £. Still...on yer Athlon...you're getting a processor that kicks the crap out of the 800G4 and it's flimsy 100mhz bus...and less ram...
You'll enjoy the speed for a while...but when the 'Hammers' hit next year...you'll be less enamoured with your system. And the 'speed'/spec' drug will kick in. Cos...after months...years of W2K...that's all you've got left. Oh...and the 'games' I guess.
After the next year of 'power'Macs...I think the performance and gaming questions will be moot.
It's looking like next year...Apple will pull it together. Whether they sort out their pricing and market rigidness is another thing...
Comments
if he got winxp, he'll be back in the fold within 6-9 months tops.
windows 2000 and he could last up to a year and a half.
-alcimedes
i'm a sys admin at a large university. i help out a few hundred professors to keep their machines up and running. (they get hand holding big time)
i can tell you right now that i have seen a wide variety of problems in XP that i've never seen in win2k. some of the worst are related to either older scientific hardware, or multiple user accounts. (a friend's C: drive is now a warcraft cd. he can't get his C: back, it really thinks it's supposed to be warcraft. that his brother installed on another account, so he can't make changes to it anyway)
in any case, i have seen dozens of problems with XP that just never cropped up on win2k machines. as for the GUI, i couldn't care less.
Note - And of course Mac is for everyone because it is better than all of 'em.
I have no doubt that your experience is valid. XP is pickier re its hardware requirement. The multiple user feature that allows an user to logon without requiring another to log off is not present in w2k (or Mac for that matter - I wish does!) so it's really unfair to pick on XP for that.
As for GUI, I just mentioned that so if people want XP but want it to look like w2k - there is that option.
Nice new system man. Agreed on the graphics -- I did the same thing you did. Bought a cheap video card when I built my computer in anticipation of the GeForce 4's release. My GF4 is in the mail now.
The Radeon 9700 will kick ass.
What kind of motherboard did you get?
<strong>I dunno. XP Home is fine for me.
Nice new system man. Agreed on the graphics -- I did the same thing you did. Bought a cheap video card when I built my computer in anticipation of the GeForce 4's release. My GF4 is in the mail now.
The Radeon 9700 will kick ass.
What kind of motherboard did you get?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Way to go on the GF4. I'll decide around Christmas what way I'm going with the video card.
The chipset is QDI Kudoz 7A. Kinda a no-name, but these guys have built a lot of systems and have had trouble with some of the better board makers, and have about 1% problems with this board.
Alert alert alert! What is that?
I'd really, really stress you go for a name brand mobo and a chipset that people have heard of. Via, nVidia, SiS, and ALi all make some good chipsets.
Do you have a link to said chipset?
EDIT: Ahh, I see, that's not the chipset, it's the mobo. Still, why get a no name mobo with a vanilla KT266A when there are plenty of excellent choices for the same price?
[ 07-26-2002: Message edited by: radar1503 ]</p>
I love the show, and was watching an episode hosted by adam sessler(of extended play fame) and megan . at anyrate the shohis episode. and one of the things they had was(the coolest thing ever)
a large PC tower with a gamecube, a PS2, an xbox...and a cpu running some Windows(I saw a front panel to a high end soundblaster card...most likely there was a high end video card in there as well....at any rate...this guy Yoshi who is the screen savers hardware guru...built this monster box...and if you ask me...it is the ultimate gaming solution....all three next gen systems in one box...and a gaming pc to boot(not that you want a PC)
but since thats not a real option....DEFINATLY go for the tower....if the iMac had BTO geforce4(not mx) then I wouldn't be as sure.
but since a gamer needs three things, ram, expandability and games....a tower is the only way to go...but wait till the new powermacs are revealed...cause they will be more powerful...and rumours have it they will support more max amounts of ram
Yes, i know i'm supporting wintel and should burn in hell for it, but i could never justify paying the bucks just for playing games.
Oh btw, i bought neverwinter nights 3 weeks ago and already beat it, IMHO it's way over rated and lame, you can only get to lvl 20. The game is easy, and the plot is pretty straight forward. However, it does have a pretty good game engine.
<strong>What I would've done is gone on smalldog or somewhere and looked for a dual 800 G4 w/GeForce 3 card. I think you can get those cheap now.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Um not by my definition of cheap you can't. I couldn't see one on small dog or at Red Tag, but on E-bay there's an auction closing 31 July for "Apple MAC G4 DUAL 800 800mhz/768/80 Superdrve
$2,136.00" (No monitor and that's not necessarily the final bid). And that's with the GF 2 MX, not the Ti 3.
Thats, oh, $450-$500 US more than I paid for my new system. And dude, I guarantee you that Dualie could hold a candle to this Athlon XP 2100+. And hey, mines under warranty. The dualie 800 would be costing you out of pocker for repairs, etc.
Frankly, the story for Apple gets worse and worse as I use the system. Windows XP isn't bad to use. Not too clunky, and no more complicated to optimize than OSX (not much more complicated that 8.6, what I was regularly using). With the kind of computing power you can buy on the PC side, you can buy enough RAM to make up for the memory hoggishness of Windows. Not that Apple can talk anyways, the memory requirements for OSX are way beyond what they were supposed to be 4 years ago when they said the iMac rev. A would run OSX.
Anyway, I hope Apple gets themselves together this year, cuz otherwise their marketshare is only going to get smaller and smaller. They are fascist nasties, but AMD/Intel/M$ sure are giving value for the dollar at the moment.
Yeesh. It irks me that Apple doesn't have an expandable machine under £1,350 inc Vat.
It's ludicrous. They are losing sales this way.
And these sales matter because Dell ARE selling loads of PCs still in a saturated market.
Apple should have a cheap tower under £1,000.
It's ridiculous that they don't. Their business model is too rigid. You're either an eMac, an iMac or a 'power'Mac. Two of which aren't expandable. I'm a Mac fan...but I can't defend such 'narrowness'. If you're this 'narrow' you ARE going to lose sales against a divergent PC market.
Cept...the 'power'Macs...aren't that 'power'ful.
For a gaming system...you should be able to drop £1000 on Apple's lap...and go and upgrade the video card if you want to. But...you can't.
Nobody is paying £2000 for computers these days. The average buy is £1000. Apple better wake up and smell the coffee on this one.
Now...Wilson. I've been with Windows 2K for just almost two years now. I can tell you this.
I...hate...it. I bought for exactly the reasons (amongst others...it was a mandatory purchase for a course I was doing...) you did. I don't enjoy working on it. I have more fun on my wife's iBook. Sure..the speed was nice to begin with and I even upgraded it. But...
Now? I'm waiting to 'go back to Mac'.
I'm desperately hanging on for a 7500 dual 'G5' Mac on Rio with a Radeon or Nvidia card. I may be waiting for another 'year' at this rate of going.
Surprised you didn't consider the widescreen iMac.
Nice machine. The boosted Geforce 4Mx offers performance 'just behind' the Geforce 3 in many benches. Go look at the front page of Tomshardware.com and click on the graphic card comparisons. You'll be surprised to find that in many cases it offers 70% ish of the performance for much less £. Still...on yer Athlon...you're getting a processor that kicks the crap out of the 800G4 and it's flimsy 100mhz bus...and less ram...
You'll enjoy the speed for a while...but when the 'Hammers' hit next year...you'll be less enamoured with your system. And the 'speed'/spec' drug will kick in. Cos...after months...years of W2K...that's all you've got left. Oh...and the 'games' I guess.
After the next year of 'power'Macs...I think the performance and gaming questions will be moot.
It's looking like next year...Apple will pull it together. Whether they sort out their pricing and market rigidness is another thing...
Lemon Bon Bon