Since you're quoting Rush as proof he's not a playa hata, perhaps you could provide quotes that show Moore to be one. Hey, do you remember the Chelsea Clinton "new White House dog" joke that Rush did a while back? Not hateful, huh?
Personally, I don't see much if any difference in attitude and approach between them. How exactly is Rush "sarcastic and silly" while Moore is "hateful"?
This is not a "defense" of Moore, just a callout on what appears to be a double-standard. I would expect a defense of Moore from a hard-core liberal, much like the defense given by you of Rush suggests a strong bias in his favor because you agree with his opinions.
Even if I agreed with moore, he in the interviews and talkshow situations that I have seen or read, he just seems bitter, not like a guy who wants to promote his own beliefs, but a man who is bitter about the outcome of Florida in 2000
The key differance that I see between limbaugh and moore is that Moore does what he does out of a persona of hate, he has this unhealthy hatered thing that limbaugh doesnt, rush may be a "blowhard" but he is much more successfull than moore because, while being sarcastic and just plain out silly sometimes, he is rarely if ever hatefull, he is pationate, but at the end of the day he doesnt "hate" his opponents, he has said numorous times that Bill Clinton would be a fun partner for golf, or great fun to go with to "pick up babes (his words not mine)", he just doesnt trust him leading the world.
as contrasted to Moore who simply hates bush in the worst way, who says conservatives dont see nuance
I'm not a fan of Moore, but at least the libs now have someone with some media pull, to counteract the relentless flow of slurry and hypocrisy from the O'Reillys, the Limbaughs, the Hannitys, the Coulters, the Savages (!), the Scarboroughs, and a plague of other extremist media cephalophages. To his credit, at least (Moore) is not being investigated for dealing narcotics, as is Limbaugh.., and I am not aware that anyone discovered a dead body in Moore's office, and as far as I know, Moore is not a member of any wacko cult.
Here's what the darling of the right, arch-hypocrite Limbaugh says about others' drug abuse:
Quote:
Rush Limbaugh Show, 9-23-93
> LIMBAUGH: (Voiceover) He says that, I know every expert in
> the world will disagree with me, but I don't buy into the
> disease part of drug abuse. The first time you reach for a
> substance you are making a choice. Every time you go back,
> you're making a personal choice. I feel very strongly about
> that.'
>
> What he's saying is that if there's a line of cocaine here, I
> have to make the choice to go down and sniff it. And I don't
> know how--how to do it, but if I was going to do it, I'd do
> it. If there were a gun here, it wouldn't fire itself. I've
> got to reach for it and--and pull the trigger. And his point
> is that we are rationalizing all this irresponsibility and
> all the choices people are making and we're blaming not them,
> but society for it. All these Hollywood celebrities say the
> reason they're weird and bizarre is because they were abused
> by their parents. So we're going to pay for that kind of
> rehab, too, and we shouldn't. It's not our responsibility.
>
> Rush Limbaugh Show, 1-15-96
> In fact, I'm reminded--I had this story about three weeks
> ag--maybe it was before Christmas, maybe it was as far back
> as November--but there were a couple of drug convictions out
> in--I think it was a Colorado court. And these guys had--had
> done some really bad stuff, and there were mandated federal
> sentences for the crimes they had committed. And the judge
> apologized to the criminals while sentencing them because he
> thought it was too severe. He apologized and the com--the
> community was outraged. So we've gone from a judge sentencing
> a mother who makes her child beg six months in jail, to
> judges apologizing for getting dope dealers and crack dealers
> and drug salesmen off the streets with too severe a sentence.
>
> Rush Limbaugh Show, 10-13-95
> Now get this: Bob Johnson, drunk, driving around Minneapolis,
> threatening to shoot himself with a BB gun--Wonder where Al
> Cowlings was this night?--was drunk and calling people on the
> phone. Lis--listen to this. Bob Johnson was once listed in
> legislative directories as a school social worker, quote,
> "recognized for work in fields of youth and family problems
> and alcohol drug prevention."'
> Another Democrat--another--folks, these people are taking it
> really hard, you know, these
>
>
> Democrats, threatening to kill themselves with a BB gun,
> getting drunk. Here--a guy who had been cited, who had been
> recognized for his great work in alcohol and drug abuse is
> drunk on the highways. This is just--it's tragic, but it's
> just--it's outrageously funny. And he is just the latest in a
> series of Democratic legislators in Minnesota accused of
> crimes including shoplifting, spouse abuse and insurance
> fraud. Conflict resolution, Democrats and all their good
> social works, and still, look at what ha--it just--it's--it's
> hypocrisy. ...
>
> Rush Limbaugh Show, December 16, 1994
> So we're not going to get on--we don't fault these animals
> for a lack of discipline, but we get on human beings who are
> fat for lack of discipline and you know it and I know it. But
> here's the thing that struck me about this. We have
> alcoholics and drug addicts in our society, don't we? And
> what do we say about them? Well, they can't help it. Why,
> it's genetic. Why, they have a disease. Why, put one
> thimbleful of scotch in front of them and they can die.'
>
> We totally exempt them from any control over their lives, do
> we not? Some athlete will spend two years snorting lines of
> coke. He can't help it.' You know, it's--it's just--it's
> not--it's--it's genetic. These people--they're predisposed to
> having this addictive syndrome. They--they can't help--yeah,
> like that line of cocaine just happened to march into the
> hotel, go up to the athlete's room and put itself right there
> in front of him on his blotter.
Michael Moore may be a windbag and twist some facts to political advantage (who doesn't?)....but Limbaugh is a lying, hypocritical, doublespeaking ?¢£?´?
Nice post Sammi. What a hypocrite that idiot Limbaugh is. I listen to him sometimes while switching stations while in the car. It makes me feel sane.
I can't believe people actually glorify that dopehead. I hope he ends up in jail with the "irresponsible" dopeheads he used to blast not too long go. Talkabout poetic justice.
Nice post Sammi. What a hypocrite that idiot Limbaugh is. I listen to him sometimes while switching stations while in the car. It makes me feel sane.
I can't believe people actually glorify that dopehead. I hope he ends up in jail with the "irresponsible" dopeheads he used to blast not too long go. Talkabout poetic justice.
even as a limbaugh fan, i have to say that would be humorously ironic.
Heh. Some people are still pissed about that Pete Rose ovation at the World Series presentation in 1999...
Seems that sports figures rank at the top...go figger. I was hoping someone with talent or class...but this is a whole new generation.
I can't wait for Moore's doc(schlock?)umentary. Even though he flings facts, fiction and imagery in the mix...there must be some juicy stuff here. Take him for what you will...liberals need him to balance out the heavy handed bullshit that comes out the right end of things.
French-shmench...Cannes is an INTERNATIONAL film exibition. I think that all the acclaim comes from the fact that the rest of the world HAS SEEN everything (news and media) and we here in the States only get homoginized see and sound bites, edited for television...and mouthbreathers.
I get the feeling that this work by Moore will cause a media/political shitstorm. Thank God.
right on Artman. I forgot to comment on how the crowd who gave Moore such an ovation was hardly all-French. However the Limbaugh crowd would not waste an opportunity to bash the French or anyone who doesn't support their views for that matter. The "with us or against us" BS in other words.
The one bright spot that I can see in terms of our current situation with most of the world hating America is that most of that hate is directed at Bush personally. If we can manage to get rid of the guy and implement more reasonable policies then we might be able to get back to actually fighting terrorism instead of furthering some neocon agenda. Of course if he gets reelected then the rest of the world will really believe us to be a nation of idiots.
I don't know particulary the Cannes event and who applauded.
I just know that by tradition people involved with movies in France are mostly belonging to the left.
Moore has been popular here for having supporting the Intermittents du Spectacle (people who works in the show busisness in an occasional way, but who benefited of a great system of welfare in period of unemployement). The new governement has trying to change this welfare who cost a fortune (you work 4 months and you are paid one year), but you can bet that these peoples react strongly.
Naturally Moore take position for them, and all the Intermittens supporter where delighted.
It's not a secret that Bush is unpopular in France, and in fact it may be the most unpopular US president of US history ( I never heard so many complains with Bush senior or even Reagan), but 15 minutes of the ovation is certainly belonging to internal french politic and has very few to do with the Bush thing.
Segovius : it's interesting to have an outside advice about France.
Funny to see that you consider France to be right winged. The Le Pen vote exist and is constant (15-20%). The man is a fascist, but not discribe him as a nazi. For me is more a populo-fascist ( someone saying what people want to hear : more easy to blame foreign people, than to say that France sucks because french people sucks).
Curiously even some arab voted him during the presidential elections. This demonstrate, that you can reduce the Le Pen phenomena to a simple Nazi. A nazi party in France would never work for two reasons :
- it's forbidden
- many old french people have experienced what nazis where, and have transmitted this hate to their childrens. Only a bunch of youngsters who totally ignore history, politic and WW2, who love violence and sadism are belonging to neo-nazis groups (secrets groups).
I think that compared to US France, is more a socialist countrie, because people are valuing the culture of welfare at any cost. Sentances like " acquis social" are very important in France, and backpedalling (revoking some social privileges) is almost impossible (see the intermittents du spectacle thing).
Petit bourgeois why not : BTW most french people who will deny this : Bourgeois is considered like an insult in France : tu n'est qu'un petit bourgois, tu n'est qu'un sale bourgeois ...Petit bourgeois, who refer to the middle class implicate a conservative spirit, a lack of innovation and originality.
You should notice that the Petit Bourgeois thing is essentially a commie wording, very popular twenty years ago, at the great era of Georges Marchais and his famous : "c'est un scandale".
For the TV : I agree with you at 100 % . It sucks, TV shows like the farm are an horror and i refuse to see a single image of it. I watch some series on Canal Sattelite, and spent most of my time on Internet (much better than watching TV). The interesting US series are on Canal Jimmy.
For the americanisation : yes, France is not that different from US. The biggest difference is the food, and the way towns are built : the urbanisation is different.
I will say that France is an occidental countrie, not that different from US, but who differ in a political point of vue, with a great love of welfare and a certain taste for the petit bourgeois confort.
Your example Segovius is a perfect resume of the french way of thinking.
But if protecting yourself from professional pressure is good, there is backwards :
- you are not encouraged to work, because it does not make difference
- the world is open, weither people like it or not. The competition is there, and if you are not competitive you die.
However it protect against extreme anxiety, especially in the case of white collars. I hate, when boss ask their salaries to do 20 % more contracts, or cut the price of 10 % without having checked if it's possible. They make objectives out of nothing, and blame their collaborators when it fail.
I stay somewhere in the middle, I like competition but only if I go in it by my own will. That's why I am my own boss.
As an artist in France, if you work a certain amount of hours and then become unemployed you are entitled to 80% of what you earned in the last year. Every artist/actor is entitled to this I believe - even someone like Depardieu for instance, although I guess he wouldn't be out of work much.
This is what the strikes are about at Cannes and those which disrupted the festivals last year - the government wants to increase the hours you have to work to get this entitlement. I think it's fair enough in a way - I know some people on 1000? or so a month at the moment for doing not very much at all.
You can have our flat if you like - we're off to Madrid in a month
As an artist in France, if you work a certain amount of hours and then become unemployed you are entitled to 80% of what you earned in the last year. Every artist/actor is entitled to this I believe - even someone like Depardieu for instance, although I guess he wouldn't be out of work much.
And I doubt he'd be in need of such assistance even if he were. All in all, a waste of public monies, and while I tend to favour the principle of a welfare-state but la connerie Ã* ce point-lÃ*, moi, jÂ?dis quÂ?ça devient gênant.
Quote:
This is what the strikes are about at Cannes and those which disrupted the festivals last year - the government wants to increase the hours you have to work to get this entitlement. I think it's fair enough in a way - I know some people on 1000Â? or so a month at the moment for doing not very much at all.
They could find alternative jobs in the mean time, like plongeurs, public writers, office cleaners, construction workers, and whatnot.
Quote:
You can have our flat if you like - we're off to Madrid in a month
Actually, my family connections in Paris could easily arrange a very comfortable spacious flat in the Seizième for me, not quite the artistic setting (unless one goes for the whole outrageously overspending bohemian thing).
And anyway same family connections inform me that alas, the atmosphere there is still far from being as Â?rabidly pro-IsraeliÂ? (Allah yustur_! someone at Arte might have hinted that Israel's existence might not be the worst crime evar, perhaps that Adler fellow again) as is acceptable by my standards.
For as can be guessed, I am veeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrry rabidly so.
[Edit: for some reason, the non-breaking space registers as an underscore. Perhaps Safari is to blame]
And I doubt he'd be in need of such assistance even if he were. All in all, a waste of public monies, and while I tend to favour the principle of a welfare-state but la connerie Ã* ce point-lÃ*, moi, jÂ?dis quÂ?ça devient gênant.
They could find alternative jobs in the mean time, like plongeurs, public writers, office cleaners, construction workers, and whatnot.
Actually, my family connections in Paris could easily arrange a very comfortable spacious flat in the Seizième for me, not quite the artistic setting (unless one goes for the whole outrageously overspending bohemian thing).
And anyway same family connections inform me that alas, the atmosphere there is still far from being as Â?rabidly pro-IsraeliÂ? (Allah yustur_! someone at Arte might have hinted that Israel's existence might not be the worst crime evar, perhaps that Adler fellow again) as is acceptable by my standards.
For as can be guessed, I am veeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrry rabidly so.
[Edit: for some reason, the non-breaking space registers as an underscore. Perhaps Safari is to blame]
For the first point you are right (for the others my connections to Paris are very small). Unfortunately not so many people think like you. Even if I am for a welfare state, I am not for a parental state.
I loved the geopolitical TV emissions that presented Alexandre Adler some years ago : brillant and didactic . If my memory was correct it was called " les dessous des cartes".
Comments
Originally posted by FormerLurker
Since you're quoting Rush as proof he's not a playa hata, perhaps you could provide quotes that show Moore to be one. Hey, do you remember the Chelsea Clinton "new White House dog" joke that Rush did a while back? Not hateful, huh?
Personally, I don't see much if any difference in attitude and approach between them. How exactly is Rush "sarcastic and silly" while Moore is "hateful"?
This is not a "defense" of Moore, just a callout on what appears to be a double-standard. I would expect a defense of Moore from a hard-core liberal, much like the defense given by you of Rush suggests a strong bias in his favor because you agree with his opinions.
Even if I agreed with moore, he in the interviews and talkshow situations that I have seen or read, he just seems bitter, not like a guy who wants to promote his own beliefs, but a man who is bitter about the outcome of Florida in 2000
Originally posted by a_greer
The key differance that I see between limbaugh and moore is that Moore does what he does out of a persona of hate, he has this unhealthy hatered thing that limbaugh doesnt, rush may be a "blowhard" but he is much more successfull than moore because, while being sarcastic and just plain out silly sometimes, he is rarely if ever hatefull, he is pationate, but at the end of the day he doesnt "hate" his opponents, he has said numorous times that Bill Clinton would be a fun partner for golf, or great fun to go with to "pick up babes (his words not mine)", he just doesnt trust him leading the world.
as contrasted to Moore who simply hates bush in the worst way, who says conservatives dont see nuance
I'm not a fan of Moore, but at least the libs now have someone with some media pull, to counteract the relentless flow of slurry and hypocrisy from the O'Reillys, the Limbaughs, the Hannitys, the Coulters, the Savages (!), the Scarboroughs, and a plague of other extremist media cephalophages. To his credit, at least (Moore) is not being investigated for dealing narcotics, as is Limbaugh.., and I am not aware that anyone discovered a dead body in Moore's office, and as far as I know, Moore is not a member of any wacko cult.
Here's what the darling of the right, arch-hypocrite Limbaugh says about others' drug abuse:
Rush Limbaugh Show, 9-23-93
> LIMBAUGH: (Voiceover) He says that, I know every expert in
> the world will disagree with me, but I don't buy into the
> disease part of drug abuse. The first time you reach for a
> substance you are making a choice. Every time you go back,
> you're making a personal choice. I feel very strongly about
> that.'
>
> What he's saying is that if there's a line of cocaine here, I
> have to make the choice to go down and sniff it. And I don't
> know how--how to do it, but if I was going to do it, I'd do
> it. If there were a gun here, it wouldn't fire itself. I've
> got to reach for it and--and pull the trigger. And his point
> is that we are rationalizing all this irresponsibility and
> all the choices people are making and we're blaming not them,
> but society for it. All these Hollywood celebrities say the
> reason they're weird and bizarre is because they were abused
> by their parents. So we're going to pay for that kind of
> rehab, too, and we shouldn't. It's not our responsibility.
>
> Rush Limbaugh Show, 1-15-96
> In fact, I'm reminded--I had this story about three weeks
> ag--maybe it was before Christmas, maybe it was as far back
> as November--but there were a couple of drug convictions out
> in--I think it was a Colorado court. And these guys had--had
> done some really bad stuff, and there were mandated federal
> sentences for the crimes they had committed. And the judge
> apologized to the criminals while sentencing them because he
> thought it was too severe. He apologized and the com--the
> community was outraged. So we've gone from a judge sentencing
> a mother who makes her child beg six months in jail, to
> judges apologizing for getting dope dealers and crack dealers
> and drug salesmen off the streets with too severe a sentence.
>
> Rush Limbaugh Show, 10-13-95
> Now get this: Bob Johnson, drunk, driving around Minneapolis,
> threatening to shoot himself with a BB gun--Wonder where Al
> Cowlings was this night?--was drunk and calling people on the
> phone. Lis--listen to this. Bob Johnson was once listed in
> legislative directories as a school social worker, quote,
> "recognized for work in fields of youth and family problems
> and alcohol drug prevention."'
> Another Democrat--another--folks, these people are taking it
> really hard, you know, these
>
>
> Democrats, threatening to kill themselves with a BB gun,
> getting drunk. Here--a guy who had been cited, who had been
> recognized for his great work in alcohol and drug abuse is
> drunk on the highways. This is just--it's tragic, but it's
> just--it's outrageously funny. And he is just the latest in a
> series of Democratic legislators in Minnesota accused of
> crimes including shoplifting, spouse abuse and insurance
> fraud. Conflict resolution, Democrats and all their good
> social works, and still, look at what ha--it just--it's--it's
> hypocrisy. ...
>
> Rush Limbaugh Show, December 16, 1994
> So we're not going to get on--we don't fault these animals
> for a lack of discipline, but we get on human beings who are
> fat for lack of discipline and you know it and I know it. But
> here's the thing that struck me about this. We have
> alcoholics and drug addicts in our society, don't we? And
> what do we say about them? Well, they can't help it. Why,
> it's genetic. Why, they have a disease. Why, put one
> thimbleful of scotch in front of them and they can die.'
>
> We totally exempt them from any control over their lives, do
> we not? Some athlete will spend two years snorting lines of
> coke. He can't help it.' You know, it's--it's just--it's
> not--it's--it's genetic. These people--they're predisposed to
> having this addictive syndrome. They--they can't help--yeah,
> like that line of cocaine just happened to march into the
> hotel, go up to the athlete's room and put itself right there
> in front of him on his blotter.
Michael Moore may be a windbag and twist some facts to political advantage (who doesn't?)....but Limbaugh is a lying, hypocritical, doublespeaking ?¢£?´?
Originally posted by Gilsch
... could find someone better for that...but Limbaugh?
A Drudge and Limbaugh fan. Some combo there.
If it softens the blow, I cant stand Hannity or most of FNC for that matter
I can't believe people actually glorify that dopehead. I hope he ends up in jail with the "irresponsible" dopeheads he used to blast not too long go. Talkabout poetic justice.
Originally posted by Gilsch
Nice post Sammi. What a hypocrite that idiot Limbaugh is. I listen to him sometimes while switching stations while in the car. It makes me feel sane.
I can't believe people actually glorify that dopehead. I hope he ends up in jail with the "irresponsible" dopeheads he used to blast not too long go. Talkabout poetic justice.
even as a limbaugh fan, i have to say that would be humorously ironic.
I expected a nutso hatchet job, but instead got a fairly even-handed look at the past fiftyish years.
Results...
Heh. Some people are still pissed about that Pete Rose ovation at the World Series presentation in 1999...
Seems that sports figures rank at the top...go figger. I was hoping someone with talent or class...but this is a whole new generation.
I can't wait for Moore's doc(schlock?)umentary. Even though he flings facts, fiction and imagery in the mix...there must be some juicy stuff here. Take him for what you will...liberals need him to balance out the heavy handed bullshit that comes out the right end of things.
French-shmench...Cannes is an INTERNATIONAL film exibition. I think that all the acclaim comes from the fact that the rest of the world HAS SEEN everything (news and media) and we here in the States only get homoginized see and sound bites, edited for television...and mouthbreathers.
I get the feeling that this work by Moore will cause a media/political shitstorm. Thank God.
I just know that by tradition people involved with movies in France are mostly belonging to the left.
Moore has been popular here for having supporting the Intermittents du Spectacle (people who works in the show busisness in an occasional way, but who benefited of a great system of welfare in period of unemployement). The new governement has trying to change this welfare who cost a fortune (you work 4 months and you are paid one year), but you can bet that these peoples react strongly.
Naturally Moore take position for them, and all the Intermittens supporter where delighted.
It's not a secret that Bush is unpopular in France, and in fact it may be the most unpopular US president of US history ( I never heard so many complains with Bush senior or even Reagan), but 15 minutes of the ovation is certainly belonging to internal french politic and has very few to do with the Bush thing.
Funny to see that you consider France to be right winged. The Le Pen vote exist and is constant (15-20%). The man is a fascist, but not discribe him as a nazi. For me is more a populo-fascist ( someone saying what people want to hear : more easy to blame foreign people, than to say that France sucks because french people sucks).
Curiously even some arab voted him during the presidential elections. This demonstrate, that you can reduce the Le Pen phenomena to a simple Nazi. A nazi party in France would never work for two reasons :
- it's forbidden
- many old french people have experienced what nazis where, and have transmitted this hate to their childrens. Only a bunch of youngsters who totally ignore history, politic and WW2, who love violence and sadism are belonging to neo-nazis groups (secrets groups).
I think that compared to US France, is more a socialist countrie, because people are valuing the culture of welfare at any cost. Sentances like " acquis social" are very important in France, and backpedalling (revoking some social privileges) is almost impossible (see the intermittents du spectacle thing).
Petit bourgeois why not : BTW most french people who will deny this : Bourgeois is considered like an insult in France : tu n'est qu'un petit bourgois, tu n'est qu'un sale bourgeois ...Petit bourgeois, who refer to the middle class implicate a conservative spirit, a lack of innovation and originality.
You should notice that the Petit Bourgeois thing is essentially a commie wording, very popular twenty years ago, at the great era of Georges Marchais and his famous : "c'est un scandale".
For the TV : I agree with you at 100 % . It sucks, TV shows like the farm are an horror and i refuse to see a single image of it. I watch some series on Canal Sattelite, and spent most of my time on Internet (much better than watching TV). The interesting US series are on Canal Jimmy.
For the americanisation : yes, France is not that different from US. The biggest difference is the food, and the way towns are built : the urbanisation is different.
I will say that France is an occidental countrie, not that different from US, but who differ in a political point of vue, with a great love of welfare and a certain taste for the petit bourgeois confort.
But if protecting yourself from professional pressure is good, there is backwards :
- you are not encouraged to work, because it does not make difference
- the world is open, weither people like it or not. The competition is there, and if you are not competitive you die.
However it protect against extreme anxiety, especially in the case of white collars. I hate, when boss ask their salaries to do 20 % more contracts, or cut the price of 10 % without having checked if it's possible. They make objectives out of nothing, and blame their collaborators when it fail.
I stay somewhere in the middle, I like competition but only if I go in it by my own will. That's why I am my own boss.
Originally posted by tonton
The whole world already does think we are a nation of idiots.
"America's funniest home videos"
"America's wildest police videos"
"TNA Wrestling"
"Titus"
And hundreds of other examples of America's total and complete lack of dignity and taste are broadcast all over the world.
But I do agree with you that once we get rid of Bush we might be given a second look. Even by the Muslims. Just not the French.
who watches those shows, I havnt even heard of "Titus", and what about "American A-HOLe er...uh Idol"?
ah-ah-ah, dont talk about the French, lest someonme be offended.
Originally posted by rageous
Looking to trade? Moore for Limbaugh? They're both ideological blowhards who care far more for themselves than any cause they pretend to fight for.
Both ideological blowhards? Really? Thanks for letting me know. Hey rageous: water makes things wet.
Now I see why limbaugh is still around.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
The new governement has trying to change this welfare who cost a fortune (you work 4 months and you are paid one year)
Let me re-read that:
?you work 4 months and you are paid one year?
Damn!
That's almost as profitable as being the Sultan of Brunei's court jester, and a hell of lot safer.
Perhaps I should brush up my Corneille and look for a small flat around the rue Mouffetard (although I assume it's more expensive than it used to be).
Originally posted by segovius
As an artist in France, if you work a certain amount of hours and then become unemployed you are entitled to 80% of what you earned in the last year. Every artist/actor is entitled to this I believe - even someone like Depardieu for instance, although I guess he wouldn't be out of work much.
This is what the strikes are about at Cannes and those which disrupted the festivals last year - the government wants to increase the hours you have to work to get this entitlement. I think it's fair enough in a way - I know some people on 1000? or so a month at the moment for doing not very much at all.
You can have our flat if you like - we're off to Madrid in a month
Don't eat too many tapas
Originally posted by Immanuel Goldstein
Let me re-read that:
?you work 4 months and you are paid one year?
Damn!
That's almost as profitable as being the Sultan of Brunei's court jester, and a hell of lot safer.
Perhaps I should brush up my Corneille and look for a small flat around the rue Mouffetard (although I assume it's more expensive than it used to be).
It's a short cut, but it's how it worked. I think that this kind of things can only happen in France
Originally posted by segovius
As an artist in France, if you work a certain amount of hours and then become unemployed you are entitled to 80% of what you earned in the last year. Every artist/actor is entitled to this I believe - even someone like Depardieu for instance, although I guess he wouldn't be out of work much.
And I doubt he'd be in need of such assistance even if he were. All in all, a waste of public monies, and while I tend to favour the principle of a welfare-state but la connerie Ã* ce point-lÃ*, moi, jÂ?dis quÂ?ça devient gênant.
This is what the strikes are about at Cannes and those which disrupted the festivals last year - the government wants to increase the hours you have to work to get this entitlement. I think it's fair enough in a way - I know some people on 1000Â? or so a month at the moment for doing not very much at all.
They could find alternative jobs in the mean time, like plongeurs, public writers, office cleaners, construction workers, and whatnot.
You can have our flat if you like - we're off to Madrid in a month
Actually, my family connections in Paris could easily arrange a very comfortable spacious flat in the Seizième for me, not quite the artistic setting (unless one goes for the whole outrageously overspending bohemian thing).
And anyway same family connections inform me that alas, the atmosphere there is still far from being as Â?rabidly pro-IsraeliÂ? (Allah yustur_! someone at Arte might have hinted that Israel's existence might not be the worst crime evar, perhaps that Adler fellow again) as is acceptable by my standards.
For as can be guessed, I am veeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrry rabidly so.
[Edit: for some reason, the non-breaking space registers as an underscore. Perhaps Safari is to blame]
Originally posted by Immanuel Goldstein
And I doubt he'd be in need of such assistance even if he were. All in all, a waste of public monies, and while I tend to favour the principle of a welfare-state but la connerie Ã* ce point-lÃ*, moi, jÂ?dis quÂ?ça devient gênant.
They could find alternative jobs in the mean time, like plongeurs, public writers, office cleaners, construction workers, and whatnot.
Actually, my family connections in Paris could easily arrange a very comfortable spacious flat in the Seizième for me, not quite the artistic setting (unless one goes for the whole outrageously overspending bohemian thing).
And anyway same family connections inform me that alas, the atmosphere there is still far from being as Â?rabidly pro-IsraeliÂ? (Allah yustur_! someone at Arte might have hinted that Israel's existence might not be the worst crime evar, perhaps that Adler fellow again) as is acceptable by my standards.
For as can be guessed, I am veeeeeeeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrry rabidly so.
[Edit: for some reason, the non-breaking space registers as an underscore. Perhaps Safari is to blame]
For the first point you are right (for the others my connections to Paris are very small). Unfortunately not so many people think like you. Even if I am for a welfare state, I am not for a parental state.
I loved the geopolitical TV emissions that presented Alexandre Adler some years ago : brillant and didactic . If my memory was correct it was called " les dessous des cartes".