There is a need for a 30" Apple LCD
This article explains the benefits of HD Monitoring using LCD tech
The pertinent info is this
As more and more material is mastered in an HD format, (usually taken to mean a picture comprising 1920 pixels horizontally, and 1080 lines vertically), the more obvious are the limitations of existing display technology, even in demanding professional post or broadcast installations. The dirty little secret of HD is that very few people have ever seen a full-resolution HD picture, and the $30,000 to $40,000-plus broadcast monitors that are currently used every day to critically view finished HD product can barely display half the available resolution of a 1920x1080 HD picture.
Ok so "Shadow Mask" technology sucks when moving into the realm of HD video on CRT. I know that Apple's Cinema Display has HD resolution of 1920x1200 so what's the big deal??
The combination of high resolution and manageable size and weight is an attractive proposition for use as an HD monitor, and this has piqued the interest of several manufacturers to design devices to display digital HD signals on LCD panels. Almost all designs, however, are based on chips designed for home theatre applications that downsample the HD picture to a lower resolution. Among other problems, these low-cost chips add interlace to progressive HD images, producing an annoying (and incorrect!) "twitter" between lines on the display.
Aha! So while my Cinema Display can show full Resolution for issue of bandwidth it's forced to receive an interlaced picture cutting my resolution.
Enter the EDP100
For $8 grand you can pixel map every precious pixel of your HD video to the Cinema Display or Sony LCD and finally see the glorious picture you paid for but aren't getting. Don't think it makes a difference check this pic out
http://www.ecinemasys.com/products/e...0Composite.jpg
Look at the detail in the planes window and the fact that you can see the Co-Pilot on the Apple Cinema Display. Realize that the Sony CRT being compared here would run you $400 a day just to rent it.
Ok ok. I know you love this HD stuff on LCD but there's no way you're paying $8000 for this. Well Blackmagic to the rescue.
HDlink for just $1295 to the rescue!
The future looks bright. I suppose this technology will eventually but put right into future LCDs. Once OLED displays get cheaper to manufactur in large sizes things will only get better. Looks like the CRTs day is numbered.
Thus it may not be overkill at all for Apple to ship a 30" LCD. Since HD is taking off there is an opportunity to sell larger LCDs not just for general use but low cost high quality HD monitoring.
The pertinent info is this
As more and more material is mastered in an HD format, (usually taken to mean a picture comprising 1920 pixels horizontally, and 1080 lines vertically), the more obvious are the limitations of existing display technology, even in demanding professional post or broadcast installations. The dirty little secret of HD is that very few people have ever seen a full-resolution HD picture, and the $30,000 to $40,000-plus broadcast monitors that are currently used every day to critically view finished HD product can barely display half the available resolution of a 1920x1080 HD picture.
Ok so "Shadow Mask" technology sucks when moving into the realm of HD video on CRT. I know that Apple's Cinema Display has HD resolution of 1920x1200 so what's the big deal??
The combination of high resolution and manageable size and weight is an attractive proposition for use as an HD monitor, and this has piqued the interest of several manufacturers to design devices to display digital HD signals on LCD panels. Almost all designs, however, are based on chips designed for home theatre applications that downsample the HD picture to a lower resolution. Among other problems, these low-cost chips add interlace to progressive HD images, producing an annoying (and incorrect!) "twitter" between lines on the display.
Aha! So while my Cinema Display can show full Resolution for issue of bandwidth it's forced to receive an interlaced picture cutting my resolution.
Enter the EDP100
For $8 grand you can pixel map every precious pixel of your HD video to the Cinema Display or Sony LCD and finally see the glorious picture you paid for but aren't getting. Don't think it makes a difference check this pic out
http://www.ecinemasys.com/products/e...0Composite.jpg
Look at the detail in the planes window and the fact that you can see the Co-Pilot on the Apple Cinema Display. Realize that the Sony CRT being compared here would run you $400 a day just to rent it.
Ok ok. I know you love this HD stuff on LCD but there's no way you're paying $8000 for this. Well Blackmagic to the rescue.
HDlink for just $1295 to the rescue!
The future looks bright. I suppose this technology will eventually but put right into future LCDs. Once OLED displays get cheaper to manufactur in large sizes things will only get better. Looks like the CRTs day is numbered.
Thus it may not be overkill at all for Apple to ship a 30" LCD. Since HD is taking off there is an opportunity to sell larger LCDs not just for general use but low cost high quality HD monitoring.
Comments
If you had 1080P material on your G5, it should play, no problem on the ACD-HD.
As for bigger screens, I think, yes, there is definitely room for bigger displays.
30" is certainly within the realm of current production methods, but only at high-end prices, which is to be expected.
I think some of the micro-mirror device (DMD/DLP) and reflective liquid crystal (LCoS) technology that's just making it into consumer devices now, will allow for some very big/inexpensive displays in a few years.
Intel has already developed a 2048x1536 LCoS chip. Judging by the quality of early 1 chip 720P DMD sets at 40-56", a 1080p or greater 3 chip device in the 30-40" range ought to be stunning. Even these big earlt sets are only 12-16" deep. A smaller set should be possible at 8-9" deep, or less!
http://www.creativemac.com/articles/...e.jsp?id=25772
However the W-XGA resolution of 1366 x 768 is not cool.
If there's a 30" 1920x1200 LCD Monitor I can't find it. I guess 23" will have to suffice for now.
Funny I've actually heard some people say the Apple 23" is expensive but the Sony with the same LCD is $200 more.
I'm putting together an HD 24P post-production suite budget for an upcoming project and the big question has been "shell out the 30K for Sony's CineAlta monitor or use the Blackmagic/Cinema Display solution." Even though there are still some issues with black level on LCDs, the savings alone negate those issues.
Discuss...
;^p
I think projection technologies will provide a very nice alternative for big screen consumer displays, and professional proofing monitors. DLP and LCoS look very very good in terms of bang for buck potential.
I don't really see the need for this in the computer space. And there is too much competition in the TV space. Apple isn't a Gateway so they wouldn't make a 30" and sell it as a TV. As for HTPC you can find much bigger and cheaper alternatives.
That's what I thought to before reading this article. The typical computer user is not going to see a need nor will this sound groundbreaking. However those Professionals who have purchased 300lb Pro CRT monitors which must be calibrated endlessly and eventually discarded will think otherwise. This is the first compelling application for LCDs in a Pro monitoring environment. OLED technology has the potential to do even better because it isn't as weak as LCDs in displaying deep blacks. The detail in the photos linked is just amazing. Those people who are editing in HD are looking forward to saying goodbye to CRTs. We're almost there!
I'm putting together an HD 24P post-production suite budget for an upcoming project and the big question has been "shell out the 30K for Sony's CineAlta monitor or use the Blackmagic/Cinema Display solution." Even though there are still some issues with black level on LCDs, the savings alone negate those issues.
Northgate your post succinctly illustrates why Pros are Pros and consumers are consumers. 30k for a CineAlta monitor. Amazing. Over at the Blackmagic board on Creative Cow I did read one guy using the HDlink now and loving it. I'm sure you'd love to recoup $26,500 and use that in others areas like maybe a larger raid or hell even another station.
I doubt that a 30" would have 3200x2000 resolution. As this article already suggest even 1920x1200 isn't being displayed to the full extent because of the interlacing. 3200x2000 would just exacerbate that situation. A 30" at 1920x1200 would be just fine as well. Larger picture means better visibility when monitoring.
I agree with Matsu however. Lcos right now seems to offer the most potential for large flat screens. It's contrast ratio is excellent. I'm still searching for reports on it's black level. It's main drawback? Expense. Intel is claiming it can make lcos affordable ..that remains to be seen. OLED will find a home regardless. There are plenty of small devices that need it's ultrathin tech and it's power savings. Not to mention it's faster than LCD in response. The future is definitely flat for a change.
Imagine what the future could bring: huge flat screen computer monitors that will replace TVs in the living room or anywhere else in the house. These screens could all be linked to one computer (this could almost be possible right now)...the OS would have to support multiple users and computer would have to be powerful enough to dish out multiple GUI environments to all the screens in the house. The hardware isn't quite there yet (multiple video cards and a really fast processor would be needed if we wanted to do this today...it's possible but not realistic at the moment...OS X could handle this if it wanted to) but if 30"+ monitors existed, this would be the purpose for them...replace TVs. Computers can do all of this. All you'd need is some good bluetooth peripherals to go with it and you could have computer/tv terminals in many rooms.
A resolution independent UI would be needed so that people could easily sit far away and have a clear, crisp image.
So...the demand might still be very low today but in a few years, I think this would be a groundbreaking idea that Apple should move towards.
Where now a consumer delineates between computer monitor and Television in the digital future the two will have merged. Now they will look at that $2000 investment in a whole new light. Not only will the monitor serve up tasty High Definition delight but it will equally handle computer display chores with aplomb.
I predict that in 5 years most tvs will no longer have their auxillary inputs labled as "Video" but rather configurable to whatever the needs may be. Being that LCDs are digital in nature I see the ability to "Jack into" the home network and display whatever data you want from whatever capable computer.
As Matsu says..the only hangup is having playback/recorder devices that can kick out 1080P. They're coming though. We have yet to see what HD can really do.
LCOS is years off. Phillips has one, it sucks. Intel is making the chip, yet no manufacturing company has been slated to pick it up. Once one does it could be a year or longer before a TV comes to market. So don't hold your breathe on LCOS, even so, they would also need to show it be be a better technology.
OLED does have great potential. However it may well be 10 years before we see the results of that potential.
DLPs are the best option for limited budgets. LCDs are the best option for under 37" or so, plasma for sizes larger then that. LCDs are supposed to hit a mark this summer with larger sizes and better manufacturing techniques which should also lower coats. If I could have my 23" ACD quality at a 42" or 50" size at current DLP prices, plasmas are done and I'd be in heaven.
Seriously, the computer and TV may merge in the future, but I hope not. Computing is a rather personal, up close experience, and I really cannot see interacting with a screen across the room while sitting on a couch with a (presumably) wireless keyboard and mouse. Too clumsy. While the keyboard and mouse exist, I really think the computer will have to stay more "intimate".
Originally posted by hmurchison
I doubt that a 30" would have 3200x2000 resolution. As this article already suggest even 1920x1200 isn't being displayed to the full extend because of the interlacing. 3200x2000 would just exacerbate that situation. A 30" at 1920x21200 would be just fine as well. Larger picture means better visibility when monitoring.
I really really really really really really really hope thats a typo.
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
I really really really really really really really hope thats a typo.
Me too - a 20" x 223" display ain't my bag....that's 1ft-8in wide by 18ft-7in tall. Hmmmmm.
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
I really really really really really really really hope thats a typo.
1920x21200? That's just the PSX video standard - Portrait Mode eXtreme.
LCDs do not have an issue with black levels, RPTV LCDs do
All LCDs have issues with black levels due to the backlighting that's needed. OLED doesn't require a backlight thus they can be made thinner and smaller and more power efficient. Of course things obviously change where projection is involved.
really hope thats a typo
Well the "extend" part is. I meant extent
So let me expand by saying that I wouldn't mind seeing a hirez LCD 30" but it would be unsuitable for HD monitoring.
Oops damn I just saw my "other" typos. Dammit my eyes are failing. Thanks T.E.K
If you look at price point positions there is room for a 30" and that may well be the determining factor. That and the potential attraction it would have when on display in a store - especially for those that bought the most expensive iPod for Windows use and get hit with the "wow" factor of 30".
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
Just got two Dell 21 FPs. They BETTER not come out with one NOW. (which means of course they will....)
Make that three 21 FPs. The price was just TOO good and the quality superb.
Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself
Make that three 21 FPs. The price was just TOO good and the quality superb.
Damn. That's great. How many computers are these monitors going on?