Ok. I've had enough...

135

Comments

  • Reply 41 of 97
    gilschgilsch Posts: 1,995member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Common Man

    The left and the elite have so much hate for George W Bush and for America! Here is something you all should read.



    The "Elite"? Is that you Rush? More of the "with us or against us" bvllshit. Brilliant!



    So tell us what "Elite" means....if you know...which I get the feeling you don't. And could you try to explain why a millionaire, from an old money family, somehow isn't part of the "Elite"?
  • Reply 42 of 97
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gilsch

    The "Elite"? Is that you Rush? More of the "with us or against us" bvllshit. Brilliant!



    So tell us what "Elite" means....if you know...which I get the feeling you don't. And could you try to explain why a millionaire, from an old money family, somehow isn't part of the "Elite"?




    Oh come on! He's not a millionaire! He only claimed something like $822,126 on his taxes last year!



    Now Cheney...Cheney's rich as hell. Seriously. That dude is totally loaded.
  • Reply 43 of 97
    common mancommon man Posts: 522member
    I'm talking about the media elites and the left wing comiwood elites who think they know more than the common man. I'm not talking about money. Folks with means need not be elites. M. Moore is the perfect example of a comiwood elite. These people shove the "America is evil. Bush is evil "mantra down the throats of Americans all day everyday, November will be a referendum for freedom and values and for Christianity. The elites will see that they have failed. America will reelect our President by a land slide and reject the negative liberal agenda. We support our President and the war on terror. .
  • Reply 44 of 97
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,018member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jimmac

    You must get your news from Whitehouse press releases.



    Here's the real picutre of our economy for example. It's better in some ways but not what I would call stellar :



    Consumer confidence Bumpy Growth June 29

    Retail sales Rebound slowing June 14

    Leading Economic Indicators Bumpy Growth June 17

    Manufacturing Activity (ISM) Bumpy Growth June 1

    Industrial Production Weak Growth May 14

    Jobs Growth Rebounding Growth June 4

    Inflation (CPI) Heating up June 15









    You still don't get it do you? People aren't buying this anymore. Also they haven't for some time now.




    Here we go again. Let me guess: CNN Money? Care to provide a link?
  • Reply 45 of 97
    sdw2001sdw2001 Posts: 18,018member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by faust9

    1. They will have a complete transitional government in charge on June 30th.

    A puppet government... Kudos.



    2. AQ has been decimated across the globe. 70% of its leadership is gone. Doing nothing would have also increased recruitment.

    Jesus damn man this is an organization that relied on the fact that central leadership is not important. This organization has expanded, reorganized, and strengthend sice we decided to invade Iraq. Nice F'ing job. Col. David Hackworth and many other career military analysist have said Bush f'ed up the war on AQ.



    3. They got medicare passed. The Dems didn't for 40 years. This is one large ass entitlement...one would think the libs would be thrilled.

    Its a fucking handout program!!!! Seniors don't want it. Young people don't want to pay for it!!!



    4. The NCLBA is not underfunded. The dept. of ed. budget has increased 48% since 2001. Federal Title 1 reading program funding has exploded. But by all means...keep repeating this trash.

    Read what I said!!! Oh that's right I qualified it using the word seen. Why is it when something is explained to one pro-Bush the same thing has to be explained to another.



    5. The 9/11 commision is bullshit. It's a fucking waste of time.

    Hmmmm discovering why is bullshit...



    6. They have crushed many terror cells. What was done BEFORE Bush? Nothing.

    Name one



    7. Deficits--we'll have to wait and see. Deficits are not always bad.

    Again, read what I said. Qualifier 'seen'. I know defecits may/maynot be bad but dollars to doughnuts says most of America don't



    8. Job growth. Jesus Christ. Job growth is getting back on track.

    U-6. People wont accept job growth until U-6 improves. Its like talking to wall. Read the long post above.



    It's going to be a long four years for you.




    1. Considering our first choice for the job of President was not selected, your statement would seem false. What would you do differently?



    2. OK..."how" exactly did he "f-ck it up? Saddam is gone. A new government is coming to power. There will be elections. We're building schools and infastructure.



    3. I don't support the medicare bill either. However, the bill is exactly what liberals have been screaming for....for forty years. Now, when it's said and done, it's all about Big, Evil Republicans supporting the Bigger, Way "Eviler" Drug Companies.



    4. Repost what you said. I don't have time to go back and read it now, but were you arguing the {i]perception[/i] was that NCLB was underfunded?



    5. Could you use a coherent sentence please?



    6. Terror Cells: You're just playing games now. I will not debate an issue with someone that is intellectually dishonest.



    7. Deficits: Again...if perception is your point, then you may be right. The question is whether or not that will matter to the average voter. I'm not sure it will...or even if many understand what a deficit is.



    8. U-6:





    Quote:

    The U-6 catagory is the actual number of people upset with their current job situation. Not the 5.6% we hear on the news now is it? U-6 has gone down by .5% pver the last year I will admit; however, 9.6% of the labor force is unemployed or employed in a manner which does not suit them.



    Oh, OK. Because in this country everyone should be guaranteed the job that meets his/her needs, right? I put ZERO stock in numbers that refer to the "stopped looking" or "underemployed" factor. Those are subjective.



    Look Faust, the overall economic picture is what matters, and that picture points to robust growth. From GDP to manufacturing data to unemployment...it's all positive. And BTW...inflation coming back up is actually....wait for it...a GOOD sign. Politically speaking, what's important is the unemployment number because it's all most people see or know about.



    You'd see this is true if you'd listen to the Democrats talk about John Kerry. It's not about the economy anymore...now they're targeting Iraq. If the economy was in bad shape, you can bet Kerry would be talking more about it.

    Kerry is desperately trying to define himself (which he STILL has not done) and desperately looking for an issue. Right now, he's trying to capitalize on Iraq. A few months ago I said that the economy was the only thing the Dems had left to run on from a political standpoint (read: things people will vote on). That last issue has now become Iraq.
  • Reply 46 of 97
    common mancommon man Posts: 522member
    The Bush-hating leftists can not admit the good that has been done is Iraq, Yes it is ugly. It is a war and wars are ugly. Sometimes war, with all of its ugliness, is a necessary step to bring about needed change. The left would rather leave a growing tumor in the gut than risk removing it.
  • Reply 47 of 97
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Common Man

    {snip)These people shove the "America is evil. Bush is evil "mantra down the throats of Americans all day everyday, November will be a referendum for freedom and values and for Christianity. The elites will see that they have failed. America will reelect our President by a land slide and reject the negative liberal agenda. We support our President and the war on terror. .



    I'll have you know that you can love America without loving Bush. Along those lines, I'd LOVE to see you take your religious hands out of MY White house. It's an OFFICE not a pulpit. The only Elites who are going to fail will be Bush and the rest of his cronies. He hasn't a prayer for re-election. Negative liberal agenda? How much more negative can Bush's agenda be? HE is the one wrecking the world, and taking names. As for your last part, there is no contradiction in saying I support the war on terror, and *uck the president. There is a difference in fighting terrorism, and preventing terrorism. He doing a great job at NEITHER. I've never seen more anti-american sentiment in the world then I do today. Way to go Bush! Glad my children get to grow up in a world where they might get kidnapped or murdered if they travel abroad.
  • Reply 48 of 97
    formerlurkerformerlurker Posts: 2,686member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself

    He hasn't a prayer for re-election.



    Good post. That sentence in particular gets the Irony Award of the day, though.
  • Reply 49 of 97
    formerlurkerformerlurker Posts: 2,686member
    Quote:

    Col. David Hackworth and many other career military analysist have said Bush f'ed up the war on AQ.

    Quote:

    OK..."how" exactly did he "f-ck it up? Saddam is gone. A new government is coming to power. There will be elections. We're building schools and infastructure.





    Well Done! You have answered a criticism of the failure of the war on AQ, with an answer about Saddam and the war in Iraq. Your neo-con overlords would be very, very proud.



    Question, though - are you an instrument of the right-wing brainwashing, or just a product of it?
  • Reply 50 of 97
    smirclesmircle Posts: 1,035member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Common Man

    The left would rather leave a growing tumor in the gut than risk removing it.



    Uhm the left is proposing to get rid of the tumor that has been growing in Americas bowels for some time now...
  • Reply 51 of 97
    burningwheelburningwheel Posts: 1,827member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Artman @_@



    Now, to fuel the flames again...



    Happy Memorial Day.







    so wha'ts your point? it's a terrible shame but i do think we we had every right to attack Afghanistan
  • Reply 52 of 97
    naplesxnaplesx Posts: 3,743member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by burningwheel

    so wha'ts your point? it's a terrible shame but i do think we we had every right to attack Afghanistan



    Don't you think that these elite soldiers train for friendly fire situations and that they know that it can happen. So therefor they know the risks.



    If you accept those facts what is the big deal?
  • Reply 53 of 97
    faust9faust9 Posts: 1,335member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    1. Considering our first choice for the job of President was not selected, your statement would seem false. What would you do differently?



    2. OK..."how" exactly did he "f-ck it up? Saddam is gone. A new government is coming to power. There will be elections. We're building schools and infrastructure.



    3. I don't support the medicare bill either. However, the bill is exactly what liberals have been screaming for....for forty years. Now, when it's said and done, it's all about Big, Evil Republicans supporting the Bigger, Way "Eviler" Drug Companies.



    4. Repost what you said. I don't have time to go back and read it now, but were you arguing the {i]perception[/i] was that NCLB was underfunded?



    5. Could you use a coherent sentence please?



    6. Terror Cells: You're just playing games now. I will not debate an issue with someone that is intellectually dishonest.



    7. Deficits: Again...if perception is your point, then you may be right. The question is whether or not that will matter to the average voter. I'm not sure it will...or even if many understand what a deficit is.



    8. U-6:









    Oh, OK. Because in this country everyone should be guaranteed the job that meets his/her needs, right? I put ZERO stock in numbers that refer to the "stopped looking" or "underemployed" factor. Those are subjective.



    Look Faust, the overall economic picture is what matters, and that picture points to robust growth. From GDP to manufacturing data to unemployment...it's all positive. And BTW...inflation coming back up is actually....wait for it...a GOOD sign. Politically speaking, what's important is the unemployment number because it's all most people see or know about.



    You'd see this is true if you'd listen to the Democrats talk about John Kerry. It's not about the economy anymore...now they're targeting Iraq. If the economy was in bad shape, you can bet Kerry would be talking more about it.

    Kerry is desperately trying to define himself (which he STILL has not done) and desperately looking for an issue. Right now, he's trying to capitalize on Iraq. A few months ago I said that the economy was the only thing the Dems had left to run on from a political standpoint (read: things people will vote on). That last issue has now become Iraq.




    1. It's still a puppet government. The "president" was installed. He was not elected. He is a dictator as is Musharif. I would have made reconstruction contract concession in order to get NATO into Iraq. I would have admitted an error in judgement early on in order to get NATO to help. I would have sent enough US troops (Rumsfeld has admitted his mistake in this regard) in the first place to ensure security from day one. I would have done a lot of things differentlly to begin with but... My current suggestion though would not be to not put a puppet in charge but rather hold a real election with NATO/UN oversight and install a government that way. Give the new government oversight of key tasks such as control over contracts (competition leads to better price controls thus less expensive for US tax payers). I would suggest the US maintain control of security forces for about the next 5 year with the number of US troops decreasing while the number of Iraqui troops loyal to the protection of the country to to any one person increasing over that time (i.e. well trained troops and police). This is what we did in Japan following WWII. I would say write an interum constitutution with stipulations that the US may be back it things go astray (as Cuba had following the Spanish/American war). Just a couple of my suggestions though. If they elected their own government then it wouldn't be a puppet regime. It doesn't matter if we give this new government full control because in the end the Iraqui people didn't choose it. It's a puppet government.



    2. How many times do we have to say this? Sahhad does not equal AQ. Number 2 was about AQ not Saddam.



    3. You just sank your own argument. Republicans on the street don't support medicare reform because it's a huge handout program. Democrats on the street don't support it because its a handout to big business. Old folks don't support it because its confusing and there are multiple studies showing no benefit for them to enroll. Young people don't like it because they are the ones paying for this handout program.



    4. Yes NCLB has been throughly abused in the media whether that is the case or not is inconsequential. Most Americans have hear this teacher complain about underfunding, or that union official saying it is underfunded. Most Americans "know" a billion was alloted for the program but Bush chose not to use the entire amount thus the perception is it is underfunded. As long as that perception is there Bush won't be able to use this program as a stump speech kicker.



    5. Discovering where, why and how 911 occurred is very important. You might not have ever held a government job but I have. All government jobs are exceedingly bureaucratic and doesn't like to change. I've see failuers (some significant some not) investigated and the results usually boil down to the lowest common donomenator being the root cause not with only the lowest people taking the blame. Systematic causes are rarely looked into because that would mean change and government employees doesn't like change. 911 commission is there to find root causes and offer suggestions for repairing these causes. It might have been more effective had the admin not sandbagged for so long about its creation, releasing papers, and offering face time.



    6. You said we have crushed many terror cell not me. Are you reffering to the Buffalo 6? Well they were not a terrorist cell. Who then are you reffering to? I said they blew the opportunity to crush the terrorist organization (not just one or two cells) because prior to Iraq we had the world behind us. We could/should have hunted UBL and Muhlah Omar down but we've let them roam and plot and decentralize more. The terrorist organizations have been able to enlist more followers into their cause since we invaded Iraq. We should have concentrated all of our efforts to catching UBL a year and a half ago but we diverted. Now UBL's popularity is on the rise again. If we capture him now it will insight more to join terrorist organizations because UBL's popularity has increase significantly over the last 1.5 years.



    7. Yep, perception is reality for most.



    8. I've never said the economy wasn't picking up. This is another perception point because like it or not U-6 is a significant measure. U-6 accounts for partime employees who are seeking fulltime employment for economic reasons, the unemployed, and the marginally attached. U-6 shows 9.6% of the population is dissatisfied with their current level of employment thus until this numer goes down Bush can't tout his economic recovery. Kerry can't either, but second term presidential races are endictments on the encumbent.



    As far as interest rates go we are in agreement. I never said interest rate increases were bad. Bush doesn't want them going up anytime soon because it means his stimulus package has finally run its course, but generally interest rate increases should be expected and are a sign of economic growth.
  • Reply 54 of 97
    naplesxnaplesx Posts: 3,743member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by faust9

    1. It's still a puppet government. The "president" was installed. He was not elected. He is a dictator as is Musharif. I would have made reconstruction contract concession in order to get NATO into Iraq. I would have admitted an error in judgement early on in order to get NATO to help. I would have sent enough US troops (Rumsfeld has admitted his mistake in this regard) in the first place to ensure security from day one. I would have done a lot of things differentlly to begin with but... My current suggestion though would not be to not put a puppet in charge but rather hold a real election with NATO/UN oversight and install a government that way. Give the new government oversight of key tasks such as control over contracts (competition leads to better price controls thus less expensive for US tax payers). I would suggest the US maintain control of security forces for about the next 5 year with the number of US troops decreasing while the number of Iraqui troops loyal to the protection of the country to to any one person increasing over that time (i.e. well trained troops and police). This is what we did in Japan following WWII. I would say write an interum constitutution with stipulations that the US may be back it things go astray (as Cuba had following the Spanish/American war). Just a couple of my suggestions though. If they elected their own government then it wouldn't be a puppet regime. It doesn't matter if we give this new government full control because in the end the Iraqui people didn't choose it. It's a puppet government.



    2. How many times do we have to say this? Sahhad does not equal AQ. Number 2 was about AQ not Saddam.



    3. You just sank your own argument. Republicans on the street don't support medicare reform because it's a huge handout program. Democrats on the street don't support it because its a handout to big business. Old folks don't support it because its confusing and there are multiple studies showing no benefit for them to enroll. Young people don't like it because they are the ones paying for this handout program.



    4. Yes NCLB has been throughly abused in the media whether that is the case or not is inconsequential. Most Americans have hear this teacher complain about underfunding, or that union official saying it is underfunded. Most Americans "know" a billion was alloted for the program but Bush chose not to use the entire amount thus the perception is it is underfunded. As long as that perception is there Bush won't be able to use this program as a stump speech kicker.



    5. Discovering where, why and how 911 occurred is very important. You might not have ever held a government job but I have. All government jobs are exceedingly bureaucratic and doesn't like to change. I've see failuers (some significant some not) investigated and the results usually boil down to the lowest common donomenator being the root cause not with only the lowest people taking the blame. Systematic causes are rarely looked into because that would mean change and government employees doesn't like change. 911 commission is there to find root causes and offer suggestions for repairing these causes. It might have been more effective had the admin not sandbagged for so long about its creation, releasing papers, and offering face time.



    6. You said we have crushed many terror cell not me. Are you reffering to the Buffalo 6? Well they were not a terrorist cell. Who then are you reffering to? I said they blew the opportunity to crush the terrorist organization (not just one or two cells) because prior to Iraq we had the world behind us. We could/should have hunted UBL and Muhlah Omar down but we've let them roam and plot and decentralize more. The terrorist organizations have been able to enlist more followers into their cause since we invaded Iraq. We should have concentrated all of our efforts to catching UBL a year and a half ago but we diverted. Now UBL's popularity is on the rise again. If we capture him now it will insight more to join terrorist organizations because UBL's popularity has increase significantly over the last 1.5 years.



    7. Yep, perception is reality for most.



    8. I've never said the economy wasn't picking up. This is another perception point because like it or not U-6 is a significant measure. U-6 accounts for partime employees who are seeking fulltime employment for economic reasons, the unemployed, and the marginally attached. U-6 shows 9.6% of the population is dissatisfied with their current level of employment thus until this numer goes down Bush can't tout his economic recovery. Kerry can't either, but second term presidential races are endictments on the encumbent.



    As far as interest rates go we are in agreement. I never said interest rate increases were bad. Bush doesn't want them going up anytime soon because it means his stimulus package has finally run its course, but generally interest rate increases should be expected and are a sign of economic growth.




    Dude, the problem, I think is that you (not just you) are focusing solely on negative, bad news. It is like you (not just you) are in lock step with the major media that focuses on just that aspect of the news.



    As far as the puppet government thing, the "puppet" government made of Iraqis picked the new government that will then govern until the general election when the Iraqi people will pick the new Iraqi government. So, yeah technically you're right. But it will not be that way for long, which is what Bush said he wanted.



    So what is your problem?
  • Reply 55 of 97
    faust9faust9 Posts: 1,335member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by NaplesX

    So what is your problem?



    My problem is "I" feel the current level of government spending will have a negative effect on the economy in the long term. My problem is an unjustified war. My problem is using tax dollars for religious charitable organizations instead of letting me decide which organization I want to support. My problem is the decreasing of environmental standards under this pres (I'm a Michigan hunter so the environment is very important). My problem is the diversion from the war on terror to the war in Iraq. My problem "is" the medicare reform bill. My problem is the tax cuts during a war (McCain balks at this too). My problem is the endemic incompetence surrounding the pres (Rice, Rummy, Wolfowitz). My problem is the Iraq war (needed to be said twice). Those are just some of my problems.
  • Reply 56 of 97
    jimmacjimmac Posts: 11,898member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    Here we go again. Let me guess: CNN Money? Care to provide a link?



    Why bother? You already named the source and it's a lot better than the rags you come up with ( or is it your own speculation? ).



    You always complain about CNN but you never say why. Oh! Let me guess they're out to get Bush!



    As a matter of fact I'd guess with you anyone who reports bad news about Bush is out to get him.





    OUT THE DOOR IN 2004!
  • Reply 57 of 97
    jimmacjimmac Posts: 11,898member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by SDW2001

    1. Considering our first choice for the job of President was not selected, your statement would seem false. What would you do differently?



    2. OK..."how" exactly did he "f-ck it up? Saddam is gone. A new government is coming to power. There will be elections. We're building schools and infastructure.



    3. I don't support the medicare bill either. However, the bill is exactly what liberals have been screaming for....for forty years. Now, when it's said and done, it's all about Big, Evil Republicans supporting the Bigger, Way "Eviler" Drug Companies.



    4. Repost what you said. I don't have time to go back and read it now, but were you arguing the {i]perception[/i] was that NCLB was underfunded?



    5. Could you use a coherent sentence please?



    6. Terror Cells: You're just playing games now. I will not debate an issue with someone that is intellectually dishonest.



    7. Deficits: Again...if perception is your point, then you may be right. The question is whether or not that will matter to the average voter. I'm not sure it will...or even if many understand what a deficit is.



    8. U-6:









    Oh, OK. Because in this country everyone should be guaranteed the job that meets his/her needs, right? I put ZERO stock in numbers that refer to the "stopped looking" or "underemployed" factor. Those are subjective.



    Look Faust, the overall economic picture is what matters, and that picture points to robust growth. From GDP to manufacturing data to unemployment...it's all positive. And BTW...inflation coming back up is actually....wait for it...a GOOD sign. Politically speaking, what's important is the unemployment number because it's all most people see or know about.



    You'd see this is true if you'd listen to the Democrats talk about John Kerry. It's not about the economy anymore...now they're targeting Iraq. If the economy was in bad shape, you can bet Kerry would be talking more about it.

    Kerry is desperately trying to define himself (which he STILL has not done) and desperately looking for an issue. Right now, he's trying to capitalize on Iraq. A few months ago I said that the economy was the only thing the Dems had left to run on from a political standpoint (read: things people will vote on). That last issue has now become Iraq.






    Hey SDW! Where's those WOMD???????????????



    That's one way he F8ked up. The other's involve our failure to be welcomed with open arms like you've gone on about in the past ( we libererated them yada, yada, yada ). By the way I think average person does know what the deficit is and it's considerable!



    As for your economic dream world......well you read the figures from CNN......



    I have other links from today if you like.



    Bush's goose is cooked, his tender timer's popped, he's done to a turn!



    There's a lot of angry people out there ( and I really don't care what kind of counter reality, republican guard, poll you come up with to say differently ).



    And guess what? They won't be voting for a second term.



    As far as Kerry defining himself he has been.



    I happen to like some of his general direction but really at this point for most of us all he has to say is " I'm not Bush ".



    It's sad but that's how bad things have gotten under Bush.





    OUT THE DOOR IN 2004!
  • Reply 58 of 97
    jimmacjimmac Posts: 11,898member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by NaplesX

    Dude, the problem, I think is that you (not just you) are focusing solely on negative, bad news. It is like you (not just you) are in lock step with the major media that focuses on just that aspect of the news.



    As far as the puppet government thing, the "puppet" government made of Iraqis picked the new government that will then govern until the general election when the Iraqi people will pick the new Iraqi government. So, yeah technically you're right. But it will not be that way for long, which is what Bush said he wanted.



    So what is your problem?






    After the way things have been ( no real reason to be over there, they really don't like us there, the mistreatment of prisoners, no WOMD found, american's dead for the same lack of a good reason, several hundred billion spent and counting ). It's a little difficult not to focus on the negative.
  • Reply 59 of 97
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jimmac

    It's a little difficult not to focus on the negative.



    I'd be curious to see what POSITIVE news someone could come up with about Bush that wouldn't be a product of the echo-machine which is their news source.



    I can sit and mull over what Bush has done for me, my family, my company, and my nation over the last 3 years and his 'positive' list is..... empty, hum, now there's a surprise... Anybody seen a website (that is in some way credible) which lists some GOOD stuff about Bush? (I'd love to read up, maybe if I start searching now by Friday I can get a half dozen together....)
  • Reply 60 of 97
    midwintermidwinter Posts: 10,060member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Not Unlike Myself

    I'd be curious to see what POSITIVE news someone could come up with about Bush that wouldn't be a product of the echo-machine which is their news source.



    I can sit and mull over what Bush has done for me, my family, my company, and my nation over the last 3 years and his 'positive' list is..... empty, hum, now there's a surprise... Anybody seen a website (that is in some way credible) which lists some GOOD stuff about Bush? (I'd love to read up, maybe if I start searching now by Friday I can get a half dozen together....)




    I can see the headlines now:



    "War Going Way Better Than You'd Think"



    "Economy Doesn't Suck As Bad As You Think It Does"



    "Chance That Rest of World Will Hate Us Less by 2005"



    "No Terrorist Attacks Today: Major Victory in War On Terrorism"
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