I don't have to list his statements about the President and the war here as I am sure you are all familiar with the things he has said. He has called Iraq "Bush's VN". He has made comments about the Iraqi torture chambers opening up under "new US management". The list goes on. Many of us here in Texas think that he should be arrested and tried for treason. He is publically critical of the President and the military in times of war. Hence he is aiding the enemy.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
I am a very strong supporter of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and think that Ted Kennedy can say whatever he likes, no matter how much I disagree with him.
I also think that people who want to infringe on our rights of free speech (as will as those who infringe on our rights to bear arms), are un-American and should voluntarily leave this country and find a nice totalitarian regime that better suites their preferred way of life.
Of course, as we all know, the Supreme Court has said that the government can ignore the Constitution just about whenever it wants to, as in the 1919 case of Schenck v. United States, in which Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, wrote:
"Words which, ordinarily and in many places, would be within the freedom of speech protected by the First Amendment may become subject to prohibition when of such a nature and used in such circumstances a to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils which Congress has a right to prevent. The character of every act depends upon the circumstances in which it is done."
Since then hundreds of Americans have be jailed for speaking out against governmental policy.
The founding fathers are spinning in their graves...
Actually, I think there is something to see here. The original poster may only be 16, but the argument he's making is a very, very common one amongst the most rabid members of the right wing right now. What began as Ann Coulter's wrong-headed hyperbolic shock-tactic resounded in the right-wing echo chamber and was quickly picked up by the pundits. Even Rumsfeld uttered something to this effect at one point. On the internet, however, it is pandemic. On blog after blog after blog, you can find sites spewing this kind of hate. Just take a look at the threads on Instapundit or at the insipid website Liberal Scum and you'll see what I mean.
This argument, as much as many here may want to dismiss or ignore it, is serious business. And I am absolutely, 100% serious when I encourage those who use it to really articulate what it is the argument means. It is nothing less than a desire to silence dissent. It is nothing less than a desire to impose a monolithic vision onto America.
It is nothing less than an attempt at a revolution: undermine and control all history (and of course rewrite it); because the history must be controlled and the voice of reasonable dissent is to be quashed, the academics must be either silences or made irrelevant (think about how common it is for a right-wing pundit to describe academics as pointy-headed academics); undermine the constitution's clear respect for dissent; undo the notion of the loyal opposition; divide the nation in two; expose the enemy within; round up the enemy and, in the end, make them silent (just how that happens is made clear by the charge of "treason" itself, which carries a penalty of death.
For my money, it's very clear precisely what this kind of logic and argumentation echo nearly point for point. It is, in no uncertain terms, a call for a night of the long knives.
Note, even, the way the rhetoric focuses entirely on how dissenters hate the man and not the policies. Note how these dissenters must be stopped if the man is to govern properly. Note how the dissenters want to destroy the country. Note how the dissenters must be hunted, exposed, and eradicated. The man must be protected, and if that means rounding up the dissenters, so be it.
Of course, before the rounding up can begin, the dissenters must be clearly identified. It'll probably be something innocuous. Some symbol pinned on the clothing, perhaps, or maybe some kind of permanent mark inked into the skin.
Oh no, people. I take this argument and those who make it with deadly seriousness, and I encourage them to say what they really mean. I encourage them to be much more public about this argument.
They're not wearing nice brown shirts, and unless we encourage them speak loudly and publicly, we'll never be able to tell who they are.
Common Man, you and your "conservative" (a.k.a. totalitarian) buddies are exactly what propel the anti-Texan stereotypes, as if it isn't embarrassing enough knowing Texas created Bush's political career in the first place. Give me a fucking break - and find yourself a copy of the Bill of Rights which affords every American citizen the right (and responsibility) to speak out against our leaders when we believe them to be wrong, regardless of your political ideology or that of the aforementioned leaders. Incarcerating and trying the close-to 50 percent of Americans who denounce the war in Iraq for treason has got to be one of the stupidest things I have ever read. Congratulations.
What we need if for the House of Representatives to put together a group, a committee, to investigate these sorts of treasonous doings, dare I say un-American activities... they could call it... hmmm... The House Committee on Un-American Activities... yeah, that's the ticket!
Ah, but this is not a conservative forum. This is actually more like a Liberal collective.
Don't expect to be treated like any of your ideas are "valid" or "reasonable" or even, gasp, "credible". It won't happen here.
This is definitely Kerry Kountry here. Right leaning thinkers are made fun of and called names ad nausium within AO.
You will be well served to accept that now.
I know I more or less swore off responding to you, but for the love of God, man, think about what you're saying.
You're saying that the idea that Ted Kennedy should be tried for treason isn't getting a fair hearing as "valid" or "reasonable " or "credible" because we're all knee jerk liberals.
Ah, but this is not a conservative forum. This is actually more like a Liberal collective.
Don't expect to be treated like any of your ideas are "valid" or "reasonable" or even, gasp, "credible". It won't happen here.
This is definitely Kerry Kountry here. Right leaning thinkers are made fun of and called names ad nausium within AO.
You will be well served to accept that now.
You astound me with every post. That you, an adult, could consider this a valid idea mystifies me. The heart of conservatism is questioning one's government not bending over simply because the gov't tells you to. Questioning is the reason we have a first amendment!!!
Quote:
From the second greatest document ever written--the first being the constitution
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
This is definitely Kerry Kountry here. Right leaning thinkers are made fun of and called names ad nausium within AO.
Right leaning? Calling for Ted Kennedy to be put on trial for treason is more than leaning.
What I think is very telling is that none of the usual rabid right wingers around here has taken a moment to distance themselves from this treason trial craziness.
We all know freedom isn't absolute, but I'm curious what kind of freedom the treason-trial touters believe in. Freedom to "get with the program, fall in line, or else"?
[Edit: At least a more sane conservative voice, faust9, had stepped in while I was composing my message.]
Questioning is the reason we have a first amendment!!!
Questioning is only valid when liberals are in power. At that time, questioning must in fact be escalated to the point of constant and relentless legal investigation. Loudly critisizing Democratic presidents is the most patriotic thing you can do, and somehow magically doesn't demoralize troops or aid and abet the enemy the same way in does if you dare do such things to God's chosen Republican President.
hark! Common Man is speaking out against an esteemed [] member of government-- a congressman no less! He's undermining the very government which protects us from those dirty terrorists. Let's lynch 'im. or atleast make sure that people like him can't talk so insidiously about the holiest of holies.
When I was a teenager, I got booted out of my (one room) school for opposing the Mexican War. My hand-painted "F(ol)k Polk" sign earned me a crack on the skull. I'm still in litigation with Ron Howard over his theft of my "Sam Houston, we have a problem" slogan. And I've only just scratched the "Don't blame me, I voted for Santa Ana" bumper sticker off my carriage.
In other words, I'm all for messing with Texas.
However, I hope they hold back for the few days it's going to take me to cross the border, visit my friends, and seek Louisiana and East.
As for Teddy: He's an ass, but I hate to see him catch hell for one of the few good things he's ever done.
What's funny is that some members of the Bush administration might actually be guilty of traitorous actions - things like giving national security info to a suspected Iranian spy and revealing the identity of a CIA agent. Bush even got a lawyer yesterday because of that latter one.
Comments
Originally posted by Common Man
I don't have to list his statements about the President and the war here as I am sure you are all familiar with the things he has said. He has called Iraq "Bush's VN". He has made comments about the Iraqi torture chambers opening up under "new US management". The list goes on. Many of us here in Texas think that he should be arrested and tried for treason. He is publically critical of the President and the military in times of war. Hence he is aiding the enemy.
http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/gue.../jm_0517.shtml
God you are way over the top!
If you are serious you're going to be so disappointed in November.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."
I am a very strong supporter of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, and think that Ted Kennedy can say whatever he likes, no matter how much I disagree with him.
I also think that people who want to infringe on our rights of free speech (as will as those who infringe on our rights to bear arms), are un-American and should voluntarily leave this country and find a nice totalitarian regime that better suites their preferred way of life.
Of course, as we all know, the Supreme Court has said that the government can ignore the Constitution just about whenever it wants to, as in the 1919 case of Schenck v. United States, in which Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes, wrote:
"Words which, ordinarily and in many places, would be within the freedom of speech protected by the First Amendment may become subject to prohibition when of such a nature and used in such circumstances a to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils which Congress has a right to prevent. The character of every act depends upon the circumstances in which it is done."
Since then hundreds of Americans have be jailed for speaking out against governmental policy.
The founding fathers are spinning in their graves...
Originally posted by giant
What's 2004 - 1988?
16.
Originally posted by rogue master
16.
see 7 and 8 posts above you
More along, nothing to see here.
This argument, as much as many here may want to dismiss or ignore it, is serious business. And I am absolutely, 100% serious when I encourage those who use it to really articulate what it is the argument means. It is nothing less than a desire to silence dissent. It is nothing less than a desire to impose a monolithic vision onto America.
It is nothing less than an attempt at a revolution: undermine and control all history (and of course rewrite it); because the history must be controlled and the voice of reasonable dissent is to be quashed, the academics must be either silences or made irrelevant (think about how common it is for a right-wing pundit to describe academics as pointy-headed academics); undermine the constitution's clear respect for dissent; undo the notion of the loyal opposition; divide the nation in two; expose the enemy within; round up the enemy and, in the end, make them silent (just how that happens is made clear by the charge of "treason" itself, which carries a penalty of death.
For my money, it's very clear precisely what this kind of logic and argumentation echo nearly point for point. It is, in no uncertain terms, a call for a night of the long knives.
Note, even, the way the rhetoric focuses entirely on how dissenters hate the man and not the policies. Note how these dissenters must be stopped if the man is to govern properly. Note how the dissenters want to destroy the country. Note how the dissenters must be hunted, exposed, and eradicated. The man must be protected, and if that means rounding up the dissenters, so be it.
Of course, before the rounding up can begin, the dissenters must be clearly identified. It'll probably be something innocuous. Some symbol pinned on the clothing, perhaps, or maybe some kind of permanent mark inked into the skin.
Oh no, people. I take this argument and those who make it with deadly seriousness, and I encourage them to say what they really mean. I encourage them to be much more public about this argument.
They're not wearing nice brown shirts, and unless we encourage them speak loudly and publicly, we'll never be able to tell who they are.
Cheers
Scott
Originally posted by Outsider
I think they should make an ULTRA-Patriot act. If you even THINK bad thoughts about the president, you should be charged with treason.
nonono. What we need is the REAL PATRIOT ACT.
Originally posted by midwinter
nonono. What we need is the REAL PATRIOT ACT.
What we need if for the House of Representatives to put together a group, a committee, to investigate these sorts of treasonous doings, dare I say un-American activities... they could call it... hmmm... The House Committee on Un-American Activities... yeah, that's the ticket!
Originally posted by Common Man
You seem to think this is some whack idea I came up with. Many people see this as I do. It is a very active topic amongst conservatives.
Ah, but this is not a conservative forum. This is actually more like a Liberal collective.
Don't expect to be treated like any of your ideas are "valid" or "reasonable" or even, gasp, "credible". It won't happen here.
This is definitely Kerry Kountry here. Right leaning thinkers are made fun of and called names ad nausium within AO.
You will be well served to accept that now.
Originally posted by NaplesX
Ah, but this is not a conservative forum. This is actually more like a Liberal collective.
Don't expect to be treated like any of your ideas are "valid" or "reasonable" or even, gasp, "credible". It won't happen here.
This is definitely Kerry Kountry here. Right leaning thinkers are made fun of and called names ad nausium within AO.
You will be well served to accept that now.
I know I more or less swore off responding to you, but for the love of God, man, think about what you're saying.
You're saying that the idea that Ted Kennedy should be tried for treason isn't getting a fair hearing as "valid" or "reasonable " or "credible" because we're all knee jerk liberals.
I, I just don't.... ah, fuck it.
Originally posted by NaplesX
Ah, but this is not a conservative forum. This is actually more like a Liberal collective.
Don't expect to be treated like any of your ideas are "valid" or "reasonable" or even, gasp, "credible". It won't happen here.
This is definitely Kerry Kountry here. Right leaning thinkers are made fun of and called names ad nausium within AO.
You will be well served to accept that now.
You astound me with every post. That you, an adult, could consider this a valid idea mystifies me. The heart of conservatism is questioning one's government not bending over simply because the gov't tells you to. Questioning is the reason we have a first amendment!!!
From the second greatest document ever written--the first being the constitution
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.
Originally posted by NaplesX
This is definitely Kerry Kountry here. Right leaning thinkers are made fun of and called names ad nausium within AO.
Right leaning? Calling for Ted Kennedy to be put on trial for treason is more than leaning.
What I think is very telling is that none of the usual rabid right wingers around here has taken a moment to distance themselves from this treason trial craziness.
We all know freedom isn't absolute, but I'm curious what kind of freedom the treason-trial touters believe in. Freedom to "get with the program, fall in line, or else"?
[Edit: At least a more sane conservative voice, faust9, had stepped in while I was composing my message.]
Originally posted by faust9
Questioning is the reason we have a first amendment!!!
Questioning is only valid when liberals are in power. At that time, questioning must in fact be escalated to the point of constant and relentless legal investigation. Loudly critisizing Democratic presidents is the most patriotic thing you can do, and somehow magically doesn't demoralize troops or aid and abet the enemy the same way in does if you dare do such things to God's chosen Republican President.
Honestly this is the dumbest thread/post I've ever seen here, this has to be someone else having fun with a second name.
He didn't lie about uranium from Africa. What he said was true.
What?
In other words, I'm all for messing with Texas.
However, I hope they hold back for the few days it's going to take me to cross the border, visit my friends, and seek Louisiana and East.
As for Teddy: He's an ass, but I hate to see him catch hell for one of the few good things he's ever done.