The Reagan legacy/Reagan not THE Most Popular President :merged
I was born in 1983, about halfway into President Reagan's first term. He left office when I was only 5 years old, so I remember nothing of him first-hand. My first memory of politics has to be Dukasis' defeat in the 88 elections. I just remember watching the television with my dad and feeling sad that our guy didn't win. Anyway-- Ronald Reagan, like most Presidents, left a legacy that historians and pretty much everybody will debate for a long a time. This thread is dedicated to discussing that legacy.
Comments
I'm a little older than you, so I do remember him. I remember watching the 1984 election returns with my family. My memories of Reagan were the mid-eighties, at the height of his popularity and some would say, political power.
5:2
Come on Birdstone!
International reaction: Praise in Europe, blame in some Arab states
Jason Keyser,_ Associated Press
June 6, 2004 COLD0606
LONDON - Former President Ronald Reagan was remembered across Europe for his role in breaking down Cold War divisions and opening the path to independence for Soviet bloc nations. Arab nations recalled the Reagan days as a dark period.
Russians recalled Reagan's tough rhetoric and how he launched a withering arms race with his ``Star Wars'' program that precipitated the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, which Reagan had famously dubbed an ``evil empire.''
Former Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev, who won the Nobel Peace Prize for launching liberal reforms in his country, remembered Reagan as an honest rival and friend.
``Reagan was a statesman who, despite all disagreements that existed between our countries at the time, displayed foresight and determination to meet our proposals halfway and change our relations for the better, stop the nuclear race, start scrapping nuclear weapons, and arrange normal relations between our countries,'' Gorbachev said, according to the Interfax news agency.
``Reagan bolstered the U.S. military might to ruin the Soviet economy, and he achieved his goal,'' said Gennady Gerasimov, who was the top spokesman for the Soviet Foreign Ministry during the 1980s.
Former Soviet republics and other ex-East Bloc nations remembered Reagan as the American president who stared down Moscow and won, clearing the way for their independence and the 1991 Soviet collapse.
``President Ronald Reagan will be remembered in the hearts of all Latvians as a fighter for freedom, liberty and justice worldwide,'' Latvian Pesident Vaira Vike-Freiberga said.
The former U.S. president was not remembered so fondly in many Arab nations. The Reagan years marked the beginning of what Lebanon's culture minister, Ghazi Aridi, called a ``bad era'' of American Mideast policy that he said continues to this day.
Political analyst and former Syrian ambassador to the United Nations Haitham al-Kilani agreed.
``Reagan's role was bad for the Arab-Israeli conflict and was specifically against Syria. He was the victim of the Israeli right wing that was, and still is, dominating the White House,'' al-Kilani said.
Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi said he was sorry that Reagan died without standing trial for 1986 air strikes he ordered that killed Gadhafi's adopted daughter and 36 other people.
Reagan ordered the April 15, 1986, air raid in response to a disco bombing in Berlin allegedly ordered by Gadhafi that killed two U.S. soldiers and a Turkish woman and injured 229 people.
``I express my deep regret because Reagan died before facing justice for his ugly crime that he committed in 1986 against the Libyan children,'' Libya's official JANA news agency quoted Gadhafi as saying Sunday.
Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's office expressed sorrow over Reagan's death, calling him ``a friend of the state of Israel.''
Pope John Paul II learned of Reagan's death with ``sadness'' during a trip to Switzerland and immediately prayed for the ``eternal rest of his soul,'' Vatican spokesman Joaquin Navarro-Valls said. The pope, a native of Poland, also recalled Reagan's contribution to ``historical events that changed the lives of millions of people, mainly Europeans.''
Lech Walesa, the former Solidarity leader and Poland's post-communist president, recalled Reagan as a ``modest'' person whose opposition to communism was firmly rooted in a deeper hatred for inequity.
``When he saw injustice, he wanted to do away with it,'' Walesa told The Associated Press. ``He saw communism, and he wanted to put an end to it.''
In Berlin, Johannes Rau, president of the now-united Germany, said Reagan's challenge to Gorbachev to tear down the Berlin Wall, made in a June 1987 speech before the concrete and barbed wire barrier, will ``remain unforgettable.''
German Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder sent President Bush a letter of condolence.
``His engagement in overcoming the East-West conflict and his vision of a free and united Europe created the conditions for change that in the end made the restoration of German unity possible,'' the chancellor wrote. ``Germany will always have an honored memory of President Reagan because of that.''
Politics aside, many world leaders past and present recalled Reagan's famous sense of humor.
``He was a great president who guided the Cold War toward a victory for freedom against communism,'' said Yasuhiro Nakasone, who served as Japan's prime minister from 1982 to 1987. ``I attended five (Group of Seven) summits with him, and he would use his skillful humor and leadership to steer them to success.''
Former Canadian Prime Minister Brian Mulroney and his wife joined the Reagans in crooning ``When Irish Eyes are Smiling'' at a summit in Quebec in the 1980s.
``He was an absolutely marvelous human being and a great and historic leader who will be remembered very favorably,'' Mulroney said.
Former British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher - Reagan's ideological soul mate and close friend - called Reagan ``a truly great American hero.''
Originally posted by SDW2001
... at the height of his popularity and some would say, political power.
You're wrong.
http://www.pollkatz.homestead.com/fi...0_image001.gif
Originally posted by Existence
You're wrong.
http://www.pollkatz.homestead.com/fi...0_image001.gif
Did you read that graph right? Right around 1984 it shows reagan at about 60-65% with is about the peak for him.
in 81 PATCO, the flight controllers union walked off the job.
president reagan had the FAA come up with an emergency plan for replacing them, they did. so he fired 11,000 flight controllers.
least favorite:
did not retaliate for 241 dead marines killed in their barracks in beirut in 1983. iran was responsible. in fact oliver north ileegally sold them more bombs a few years later.
semper fideles indeed!
Cutting student loans and raising taxes on students.
Bonzo goes to Bittburg, my favorite Ramones song.
Huge deficits
Savings and Loan fiasco
The start of the drug war.
The air traffic controllers thing, death of the labor movement in this country if you ask me.
The start of the rightward tilt that this country has been on and is now peaking.
Nancy consulting astrologers.
Iran Contra
Stealing Carter's campaign notes.
He did give America a kick in the ass and got people's spirits up, which is something that was needed at the time. Didn't like the guy, thought he was misguided, but at least he wasn't pure evil like shrub I and II.
Originally posted by trick fall
The air traffic controllers thing, death of the labor movement in this country if you ask me.
the PATCO strike was illegal, and put the public in danger. they deserved to be fired.
you may be right about it's chilling effect on the labor movement, but there is an ebb and flow to these things.
There's a bit of a debate...
One poll shows he's not even in the top 3.
Or that it was true... but there's been 3 presidents to follow.
Guess which one beats him.
http://www.pollkatz.homestead.com/fi...0_image001.gif
Yup Clinton.
And in a gallup poll conducted last year of America's most popular presidents...
Lincoln #1
Kennedy #2
Clinton #3
Reagan #4
followed by Franklin Roosevelt, George Washington, Harry Truman and Jimmy Carter.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion...-wickham_x.htm
Just keep it in mind when you hear it everywhere... he wasn't the greatest president ever or the most popular... these things are subjective... it's not fact.
shrub I and II.
Cute.
Yet, when the U.S.S.R. was taking a new direction Reagan responded positively to it, and negociated the end of the Cold War with Gorbachev; Reagan showed that after all, he was not the bloodthirsty warmonger so many still believe he was.
Sure, Reagan was a right-wing reactionary with nostalgia to small-town, gold-standard, nineteenth century ways; so what?
With all his flaws, mistakes, and misguided ideas, he was a good man and a great president.
His legacy was higher deficits and bigger government and a bloated military.
He was a good man... and an ok president. He just happened to be on duty when the cold war was ending... he was smart to recognize that Gorbachev was someone we could deal with... despite the protests of many in his cabinet. I don't know why he gets credit for the Fall of the USSR.
That's like giving credit to the relief pitcher at the end of a game when the score was 10-0 when he entered the game in the 8th inning.
Originally posted by chu_bakka
Anyone remember Lebanon? Terrorists blow up the embassy and soon after we pull out like thiefs in the night.
i did about 5 posts back.
the PATCO strike was illegal, and put the public in danger.
I would actually argue that most important strikes are illegal and a danger to the public.
do you want these people managing the nations skies under stress and pissed off? neither did they.
Rather than trying to re-tell the story from scratch, here is part of an account of the events which was published in a Santa Barbara paper in the mid 1990s::
In 1965, UCSB and the surrounding student enclave of Isla Vista were quiet, known more for their seaside location and active Greek system than academics. That image would undergo a radical transformation, as . . . student activism and civil disobedience eroded for a time the party-school reputation the campus continues to grapple with today.
An overwhelmingly white campus, many UCSB students were first exposed to the concept of racial injustice when 16 students occupied a classroom building and the Computer Center to protest the treatment of minority enrollments, and the Black Student Union was formed . . . .
There were many factors contributing to increased awareness and activism, from the continued killing in Vietnam, despite increasing public sentiment against the war, to protests against racial inequality . . . The counter culture was increasingly at odds with a government that sent away young people to fight and die across the globe, while handing out five-year sentences to a person whose only crime was carrying a joint.
Throughout 1969, the growing division between students and the establishment created an isolationist culture in Isla Vista of us against them. Along with this, though, came a focus on social awareness, on student empowerment, and on finding a peaceful end to the continuing war in Vietnam.
In February, thousands of students rallied at the Courthouse to protest the arrest of seven Black Student Union leaders on what they considered trumped-up burglary and drug charges. The same month, radical students took over the University Center and set up the New Free University, which ran for three months, encouraging a free exchange of ideas and student participation in their own education.
In April, 55-year-old custodian Dover Sharp died from wounds inflicted by a bomb that exploded outside the Faculty Club, which had become a source of controversy because students were restricted from the facility. Student activists denounced the bombing, and the perpetrator was never found.
The next school year, 1969-70, would be a year of continual, often violent, protest. The early focal point was the firing of popular assistant anthropology professor Bill Allen. In January, riot-clad police made the first of many appearances that year to break up a rally supporting an open hearing on Allen's dismissal.
The next series of incidents placed Isla Vista on the map, with riots in February, April, and June. In the first, the Isla Vista branch of the Bank of America was burned to the ground, leading to an occupation by the National Guard and to Governor Ronald Reagan's statement, "If it takes a bloodbath, let's get it over with. No more appeasement".
In April, student Kevin Moran was shot and killed by a Santa Barbara police officer as he attempted to put out another fire at the Bank of America's temporary structure.
In June protests erupted after student leaders were indicted for February's bank burning. The subsequent police occupation and resulting cases of police brutality left a strong mark on those who were there. Each incident reinforced the area residents' feeling of isolation from the rest of society.
The most significant of Isla Vista's 1970s civil disorders was a crisis that occurred as the school year neared its end. . . .
On June 3, word leaked out that 17 individuals, most of them well-known campus activists, had been indicted by the county grand jury on charges of burning down the Bank of America. When it became clear that at least two of them . . . were in jail on other charges at the time, the fuse was lit for another civil disorder. After tear-gassings and confrontations with the police, a strict curfew was imposed on Isla Vista . . . and the Los Angeles County sheriffs office sent its notorious Special Enforcement Branch into action on the streets of Isla Vista . . . . Isla Vistans were terrorized, dragged from their homes, beaten and arrested by an alien force of police officers acting with little or no heed to citizens' rights.
At that very dark moment came Isla Vista's finest hour. On Wednesday, June 10, a large group of residents, many of whom had taken no part in previous demonstrations, gathered in an Isla Vista church to organize a peaceful sit in that evening in a vacant area known as Perfect Park. By the time of the curfew, a quiet and determined crowd of some 700 . . had gathered, including UCSB faculty and staff and students of all social and political persuasions.
When the police began arresting them for curfew violations, they reacted with calm non-violent acceptance, . . . in the tradition of Gandhi and Martin Luther King. At 9:20 p.m., waves of masked deputies in riot gear . . . abruptly waded into the crowd, firing pepper gas and swinging their nightsticks. By the end of the night, 667 people had been arrested.
But a crucial moral point had been made. Faced with an ultimatum from university officials, [Gov. Ronald Reagan] agreed to end the curfew and withdraw the L.A. sheriffs. Peace returned to the streets of Isla Vista; the promised bloodbath had been averted.
This story was of significance because the parents of the people I was visiting knew many of the people who were dragged out of their beds in the middle of the night, arrested and beaten up, some severely, courtesy of Gov. Reagan and a bunch of thugs who got completely out of control, drunk on power, and turned their power of authority arbitrarily against sleeping students. This kind of heavy handed politicized policing has not gone out of fashion. The anti-WTO demonstrations in Miami 2003 saw the kind of policing normally associated with the regimes of ... (fill in the blank)....
Just because a national icon has recently died, gnarlier history cannot be suddenly erased in the interests of "good taste".
Clinton, even with his personal faults, was a fine leader who relied on ability, intellect, and charm to great effect.
(off to don my flame-retardant suit...)
Thank god for Nader.
Anyway, here's an interesting figure: