Read the article wrong...my bad - only the 2.5GHz model uses the 90nm fabbed CPUs. Sorry. That would explain the July ship date.
"The new product line does include some new technology in the processor. First introduced in the Xserve, the 2.5GHz G5 now uses the new 90-nanometer processor technology."
"The new product line does include some new technology in the processor. First introduced in the Xserve, the 2.5GHz G5 now uses the new 90-nanometer processor technology."
If the dual 2.5 is using the 970FX and the machine is running this hot, you can kiss goodbye to a dual 3.0GHz anytime soon. I would've thought the 970FX would be running so much cooler than the 970's but alas it would seem that the 90nm fabrication hasn't helped all that much. Is Apple going to have to wait for the 70nm to get a G5 in the PB's?
Finally, PPC's have traditionally ran cooler than the Pentiums but is that no longer the case? From what I know first hand, a Pentium 4 2.8GHz uses a smaller heatsink than a single G4 1.25 so while IBM can give Apple faster processors, Apple is stuck having to work with hotter chips. A tough challenge for sure. IBM needs to get their act together. Maybe, Apple should get Intel to fab the G5
apple was not going to intro a 3ghz processor at this time even if they had one.
so get a grip.
lets wait until WWDC and then reevaluate the stituation then.
steve shouldnt have promised a 3 ghz processor but you never know.
i think apple has something up its sleeve.
im sure the design for the next generation g5's are already done.
the issue is whether ibm can deliever the goods in volume.
in case some of you havent noticed EVERYBODY is having problems at 90nm INCLUDING intel.
with that said im waiting for motorola to show us what its been working on lately.
we will soon see.
and im curious what processor apple will put in the next imac.
probably not a g5 but i could be wrong.
we will see.
when motorola comes out with its next chips which i believe will hit 2 ghz at least,then we will compare them to ibm's g5.
it should be interesting.
hold on to your hats kiddies because to drama for this WWDC just went up a few notches!
Ya, everybody's having a problem but IBM is having a BIGGER problem than Intel. After they let down nvidia, now they're doing it to Apple. It's not typical for IBM to mess up or screw a customer like this especially when it comes to the kind of stuff they've traditionally been strong at. Something's certainly screwy at IBM as they've had more than enough time to improve their yields. How about the fact the current crop of 1.8 and 2.0 are still smoking hot? Why hasn't IBM been able to reduce their heat generation?
And finally, comments like this from someone at IBM is typical of someone who may just get fired.
"We recognize that statement was made a year ago but can't comment on our customers' product and technology plans," said IBM spokesman Chris Andrews.
Like as if customers like Apple would go out on a limb to project something they have no control over. If I were Jobs, I'd get this guy to issue a retraction and an apology.
Truely, this is the G5 you will be buying for the next 6-8 months. Forget some surprise PowerMac at WWDC - the dual 2.5 isn't even shipping until AFTER WWDC.
Although the processors on the models have been upgraded, the Video has not. Could this mean that Apple is making space for a "PowerMac Extreme" with all the goodies at a higher price range?
Had they been 90nm chips, the heat issue wouldn't have required the additional liquid cooling IMO. Could anyone confirm if any of these chips are using 90nm fabrication?
Tnx.
Apparently, IBM's hasn't been able to keep the 90nm chips from wasting as much heat as they hoped.
Ya, everybody's having a problem but IBM is having a BIGGER problem than Intel.
Hang on a second. Intel shitcanned not one, but two processor designs recently. I'm not sure I see how ANY recent IBM screwup rises to that level...
Quote:
Something's certainly screwy at IBM as they've had more than enough time to improve their yields.
...and what are you basing this statement on? Apple's new Powermacs are maybe 4 months late-- in case you hadn't noticed, it took Intel 18 MONTHS to get from 3GHz to 3.6GHz... EVERYBODY (except, perhaps, AMD) is up against the wall right now-- there's really no need to single out IBM.
[Edit-- not that I'm agreeing with geekmeet, mind you. But there's really no reason to blow these problems out of proportion. IBM has had problems going to 90nm. So has everybody else. There's no reason to single them out.]
Well if they can't make 3ghz and they do drop the ADC doesn't that leave open a possible new Supermac to beat all the criticism from the advertising watch dogs.
How about a Quad 2.5ghz with PCi-X and with regular PC video cards, ie the ability to use a standard video card without the need for special firmware. That would make it easier for ATi etc to offer their latest cards for the Mac platform, all they have to do is provide drivers. It seems that Apple has finally excepted that ADC whilst convenient has it's drawbacks and I think the same is true of their video card policy. I know they make money from hardware, but I think it is a real obstacle for certain sections of the market. Deal with the video card issue and it will address a lot of the criticism of the Apple hardware.
Hang on a second. Intel shitcanned not one, but two processor designs recently. I'm not sure I see how ANY recent IBM screwup rises to that level...
...and what are you basing this statement on? Apple's new Powermacs are maybe 4 months late-- in case you hadn't noticed, it took Intel 18 MONTHS to get from 3GHz to 3.6GHz... EVERYBODY (except, perhaps, AMD) is up against the wall right now-- there's really no need to single out IBM.
[Edit-- not that I'm agreeing with geekmeet, mind you. But there's really no reason to blow these problems out of proportion. IBM has had problems going to 90nm. So has everybody else. There's no reason to single them out.]
I'm not singling out IBM per se, just that I expected more from IBM. And what makes you think IBM didn't scrap any almost completed chips? Anyways, as far as we're concerned, Apple is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Personally, I had hoped the high end unit would've been more than 2.5Gigs so that a low end unit with dual 1.8 would've have been more affordable. I also dread these games Apple plays by offering a dual 1.8 with reduced features than the dual 1.8 it seemingly replaces. Why did they remove the PCI-X from the dual 1.8 models?
You all need to chill out a bit, get some liquid cooling in you!
This update is all about shifting out dated stock. We all know that PowerMac sales over the last few months have stagnated. Apple simply have too many bottom of the range mother boards and 970s. This revamp of the line is an attempt to shift as many of them as possible before they can stock pile enough 970fx's. I truly believe that in 3-4 months we'll see the G5 hit 3GHz, along with better graphics cards. Jobs could announce it at WWDC with a 3 month delay in shipping, but I doubt it, he'll probably hold off for a bit.
It's less about the lack of new tech, than about getting rid of what they already have, plus new motherboard designs cost Apple loads. Anyway this time last year we still had only dual 1.4 G4s, the G5s weren't announced until WWDC and the dual 2 GHz didn't ship until much later.
As for the graphics cards, you could expect the new ones to arrive at about the same time as Tiger. By then they will have had plenty of time to prep the PowerMacs, update the drivers and test them to infinity. We've always been late with new graphics cards, why should it change now.
As for the liquid cooling I think Apple were just testing it out in PowerMacs, in preparation for the iMac and even PowerBooks. With it going in those and future PowerMacs it probably just made economical/financial sense to put it in the 2.5. It probably doesn't need it but is an added benefit. And to me says that G5 iMacs are just around the corner.
Well if they can't make 3ghz and they do drop the ADC doesn't that leave open a possible new Supermac to beat all the criticism from the advertising watch dogs.
How about a Quad 2.5ghz with PCi-X and with regular PC video cards, ie the ability to use a standard video card without the need for special firmware. That would make it easier for ATi etc to offer their latest cards for the Mac platform, all they have to do is provide drivers. It seems that Apple has finally excepted that ADC whilst convenient has it's drawbacks and I think the same is true of their video card policy. I know they make money from hardware, but I think it is a real obstacle for certain sections of the market. Deal with the video card issue and it will address a lot of the criticism of the Apple hardware.
Everytime I get into discussions about what Apple should have done to give their customers some freedom of choice or a better choice, I start recalling Apple's commercial of 1984 and wonder in amazement how sometimes Apple appears to act like the Big Brother they confronted. Nobody is forced to buy Apple's products, but for a company that pretends to preach the message in that commercial, I'm astonished how they appear to not listen to their customers who have repeatedly requested more flexibility in some parts especially with video cards. Where are the FireGL or X800and cards for the Mac? If I'm going to pluck down over 3 grand, I want to know I can get the best video card I can.
You all need to chill out a bit, get some liquid cooling in you!
This update is all about shifting out dated stock. We all know that PowerMac sales over the last few months have stagnated. Apple simply have too many bottom of the range mother boards and 970s. This revamp of the line is an attempt to shift as many of them as possible before they can stock pile enough 970fx's. I truly believe that in 3-4 months we'll see the G5 hit 3GHz, along with better graphics cards. Jobs could announce it at WWDC with a 3 month delay in shipping, but I doubt it, he'll probably hold off for a bit.
It's less about the lack of new tech, than about getting rid of what they already have, plus new motherboard designs cost Apple loads. Anyway this time last year we still had only dual 1.4 G4s, the G5s weren't announced until WWDC and the dual 2 GHz didn't ship until much later.
As for the graphics cards, you could expect the new ones to arrive at about the same time as Tiger. By then they will have had plenty of time to prep the PowerMacs, update the drivers and test them to infinity. We've always been late with new graphics cards, why should it change now.
As for the liquid cooling I think Apple were just testing it out in PowerMacs, in preparation for the iMac and even PowerBooks. With it going in those and future PowerMacs it probably just made economical/financial sense to put it in the 2.5. It probably doesn't need it but is an added benefit. And to me says that G5 iMacs are just around the corner.
It?s a fine line between pessimism and optimism!
You know, to be a Mac afficionado, you must bean optmist by nature. With that said, if Jobs wants to hold off on announcing the BIG THING himself, then fine for him but Apple's people today said in several releases there will not be any 3Gigs this year. I can accept that and will trade that for more great software in Tiger. This will give me more time to save the bucks for this dual 2.5GHz, or better later this fall.
So did Apple make the wrong decision? Remember when Intel had discussed losing the Apple bid, and saying that they felt Apple made a mistake. Now that Apple is back to being stuck with poor chip development, did they make the wrong decision?
I truly believe that in 3-4 months we'll see the G5 hit 3GHz, along with better graphics cards. Jobs could announce it at WWDC with a 3 month delay in shipping, but I doubt it, he'll probably hold off for a bit.
Put the bong down K-JIN, Apple already said that it was not going to release a 3.0 Ghz rig anytime soon. The writing is already on the wall that we won't see the next PM refresh until the new year. My early prediction is that the next refresh won't hit 3.0 Ghz either unless it occurs 9+ months away. I really think having an Apple rep speaking up now to downplay expectations is a sign to be heeded. The need for liquid cooling on the top end machine is another. I also suspect we'll see mobo upgrade before we hit 3.0 Ghz.
Quote:
As for the liquid cooling I think Apple were just testing it out in PowerMacs, in preparation for the iMac and even PowerBooks.
Yeah... that's it.
And as far as PCI-E goes, it is just starting to appear on the PC side. I don't expect Apple will incorporate it until the new year either. Hopefully we'll some other improvements as well - onboard RAID, faster HDs, better expansion...
So did Apple make the wrong decision? Remember when Intel had discussed losing the Apple bid, and saying that they felt Apple made a mistake. Now that Apple is back to being stuck with poor chip development, did they make the wrong decision?
No, Apple made the right decision in using the G5, and staying with PPC, but the road was not as kind as they had hoped it would be. Things will be better, and I'm sure they know how to attract some users back now, but until they have the appropriate hardware - sales are not going to be as good as they would like. Apple is going to have to push their other products even harder now to make up for the losses in PowerMac sales. I'm sure they will see a big increase in sales at the upstart, but large #'s of sales they could have had just flew out the window.
I may be just trying to keep hope alive, but what about the difference in the design of the inside? The new 2.5's have the same setup in the 'innards' as the original 1.6, 1.8 & 2.0 G5 models, but what about the new inside design that showed up in the developer manuals that Apple released just recently? Not to mention the new PowerMac 8,1 kernel ?driver? that showed up in the recent update.
Comments
Originally posted by Rhumgod
Read the article wrong...my bad - only the 2.5GHz model uses the 90nm fabbed CPUs. Sorry. That would explain the July ship date.
"The new product line does include some new technology in the processor. First introduced in the Xserve, the 2.5GHz G5 now uses the new 90-nanometer processor technology."
Originally posted by BNOYHTUAWB
"The new product line does include some new technology in the processor. First introduced in the Xserve, the 2.5GHz G5 now uses the new 90-nanometer processor technology."
If the dual 2.5 is using the 970FX and the machine is running this hot, you can kiss goodbye to a dual 3.0GHz anytime soon. I would've thought the 970FX would be running so much cooler than the 970's but alas it would seem that the 90nm fabrication hasn't helped all that much. Is Apple going to have to wait for the 70nm to get a G5 in the PB's?
Finally, PPC's have traditionally ran cooler than the Pentiums but is that no longer the case? From what I know first hand, a Pentium 4 2.8GHz uses a smaller heatsink than a single G4 1.25 so while IBM can give Apple faster processors, Apple is stuck having to work with hotter chips. A tough challenge for sure. IBM needs to get their act together. Maybe, Apple should get Intel to fab the G5
get a grip on your gonads the lot of ya!
apple was not going to intro a 3ghz processor at this time even if they had one.
so get a grip.
lets wait until WWDC and then reevaluate the stituation then.
steve shouldnt have promised a 3 ghz processor but you never know.
i think apple has something up its sleeve.
im sure the design for the next generation g5's are already done.
the issue is whether ibm can deliever the goods in volume.
in case some of you havent noticed EVERYBODY is having problems at 90nm INCLUDING intel.
with that said im waiting for motorola to show us what its been working on lately.
we will soon see.
and im curious what processor apple will put in the next imac.
probably not a g5 but i could be wrong.
we will see.
when motorola comes out with its next chips which i believe will hit 2 ghz at least,then we will compare them to ibm's g5.
it should be interesting.
hold on to your hats kiddies because to drama for this WWDC just went up a few notches!
Originally posted by geekmeet
WAIT A MINUTE!
get a grip on your gonads the lot of ya!
apple was not going to intro a 3ghz processor at this time even if they had one.
so get a grip.
lets wait until WWDC and then reevaluate the stituation then.
steve shouldnt have promised a 3 ghz processor but you never know.
i think apple has something up its sleeve.
im sure the design for the next generation g5's are already done.
the issue is whether ibm can deliever the goods in volume.
in case some of you havent noticed EVERYBODY is having problems at 90nm INCLUDING intel.
with that said im waiting for motorola to show us what its been working on lately.
we will soon see.
and im curious what processor apple will put in the next imac.
probably not a g5 but i could be wrong.
we will see.
when motorola comes out with its next chips which i believe will hit 2 ghz at least,then we will compare them to ibm's g5.
it should be interesting.
hold on to your hats kiddies because to drama for this WWDC just went up a few notches!
keep that dream alive dreamer.
Originally posted by geekmeet
WAIT A MINUTE!
get a grip on your gonads the lot of ya!
apple was not going to intro a 3ghz processor at this time even if they had one.
so get a grip.
lets wait until WWDC and then reevaluate the stituation then.
steve shouldnt have promised a 3 ghz processor but you never know.
i think apple has something up its sleeve.
im sure the design for the next generation g5's are already done.
the issue is whether ibm can deliever the goods in volume.
in case some of you havent noticed EVERYBODY is having problems at 90nm INCLUDING intel.
with that said im waiting for motorola to show us what its been working on lately.
we will soon see.
and im curious what processor apple will put in the next imac.
probably not a g5 but i could be wrong.
we will see.
when motorola comes out with its next chips which i believe will hit 2 ghz at least,then we will compare them to ibm's g5.
it should be interesting.
hold on to your hats kiddies because to drama for this WWDC just went up a few notches!
Ya, everybody's having a problem but IBM is having a BIGGER problem than Intel. After they let down nvidia, now they're doing it to Apple. It's not typical for IBM to mess up or screw a customer like this especially when it comes to the kind of stuff they've traditionally been strong at. Something's certainly screwy at IBM as they've had more than enough time to improve their yields. How about the fact the current crop of 1.8 and 2.0 are still smoking hot? Why hasn't IBM been able to reduce their heat generation?
And finally, comments like this from someone at IBM is typical of someone who may just get fired.
"We recognize that statement was made a year ago but can't comment on our customers' product and technology plans," said IBM spokesman Chris Andrews.
Like as if customers like Apple would go out on a limb to project something they have no control over. If I were Jobs, I'd get this guy to issue a retraction and an apology.
Originally posted by onlooker
keep that dream alive dreamer.
Truely, this is the G5 you will be buying for the next 6-8 months. Forget some surprise PowerMac at WWDC - the dual 2.5 isn't even shipping until AFTER WWDC.
Originally posted by fresco
Although the processors on the models have been upgraded, the Video has not. Could this mean that Apple is making space for a "PowerMac Extreme" with all the goodies at a higher price range?
Dammit. No. You people jsut never give up do you?
Originally posted by DVD_Junkie
Actually, the article says: [i]
Had they been 90nm chips, the heat issue wouldn't have required the additional liquid cooling IMO. Could anyone confirm if any of these chips are using 90nm fabrication?
Tnx.
Apparently, IBM's hasn't been able to keep the 90nm chips from wasting as much heat as they hoped.
Ya, everybody's having a problem but IBM is having a BIGGER problem than Intel.
Hang on a second. Intel shitcanned not one, but two processor designs recently. I'm not sure I see how ANY recent IBM screwup rises to that level...
Something's certainly screwy at IBM as they've had more than enough time to improve their yields.
...and what are you basing this statement on? Apple's new Powermacs are maybe 4 months late-- in case you hadn't noticed, it took Intel 18 MONTHS to get from 3GHz to 3.6GHz... EVERYBODY (except, perhaps, AMD) is up against the wall right now-- there's really no need to single out IBM.
[Edit-- not that I'm agreeing with geekmeet, mind you.
Originally posted by onlooker
I didn't think there would be but, after reading this thread I am convinced there will be nothing at WWDC. We will see no new high end PowerMac.
Probably not. Give us some higher end cards the new LCD monitors and a wicked OSX Tiger and we'll be fine until MWSF.
End the end HW exists to run software and that's where we need to seen a market improvement.
How about a Quad 2.5ghz with PCi-X and with regular PC video cards, ie the ability to use a standard video card without the need for special firmware. That would make it easier for ATi etc to offer their latest cards for the Mac platform, all they have to do is provide drivers. It seems that Apple has finally excepted that ADC whilst convenient has it's drawbacks and I think the same is true of their video card policy. I know they make money from hardware, but I think it is a real obstacle for certain sections of the market. Deal with the video card issue and it will address a lot of the criticism of the Apple hardware.
Originally posted by Gamblor
Hang on a second. Intel shitcanned not one, but two processor designs recently. I'm not sure I see how ANY recent IBM screwup rises to that level...
...and what are you basing this statement on? Apple's new Powermacs are maybe 4 months late-- in case you hadn't noticed, it took Intel 18 MONTHS to get from 3GHz to 3.6GHz... EVERYBODY (except, perhaps, AMD) is up against the wall right now-- there's really no need to single out IBM.
[Edit-- not that I'm agreeing with geekmeet, mind you.
I'm not singling out IBM per se, just that I expected more from IBM. And what makes you think IBM didn't scrap any almost completed chips? Anyways, as far as we're concerned, Apple is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Personally, I had hoped the high end unit would've been more than 2.5Gigs so that a low end unit with dual 1.8 would've have been more affordable. I also dread these games Apple plays by offering a dual 1.8 with reduced features than the dual 1.8 it seemingly replaces. Why did they remove the PCI-X from the dual 1.8 models?
This update is all about shifting out dated stock. We all know that PowerMac sales over the last few months have stagnated. Apple simply have too many bottom of the range mother boards and 970s. This revamp of the line is an attempt to shift as many of them as possible before they can stock pile enough 970fx's. I truly believe that in 3-4 months we'll see the G5 hit 3GHz, along with better graphics cards. Jobs could announce it at WWDC with a 3 month delay in shipping, but I doubt it, he'll probably hold off for a bit.
It's less about the lack of new tech, than about getting rid of what they already have, plus new motherboard designs cost Apple loads. Anyway this time last year we still had only dual 1.4 G4s, the G5s weren't announced until WWDC and the dual 2 GHz didn't ship until much later.
As for the graphics cards, you could expect the new ones to arrive at about the same time as Tiger. By then they will have had plenty of time to prep the PowerMacs, update the drivers and test them to infinity. We've always been late with new graphics cards, why should it change now.
As for the liquid cooling I think Apple were just testing it out in PowerMacs, in preparation for the iMac and even PowerBooks. With it going in those and future PowerMacs it probably just made economical/financial sense to put it in the 2.5. It probably doesn't need it but is an added benefit. And to me says that G5 iMacs are just around the corner.
It?s a fine line between pessimism and optimism!
Originally posted by Addison
Well if they can't make 3ghz and they do drop the ADC doesn't that leave open a possible new Supermac to beat all the criticism from the advertising watch dogs.
How about a Quad 2.5ghz with PCi-X and with regular PC video cards, ie the ability to use a standard video card without the need for special firmware. That would make it easier for ATi etc to offer their latest cards for the Mac platform, all they have to do is provide drivers. It seems that Apple has finally excepted that ADC whilst convenient has it's drawbacks and I think the same is true of their video card policy. I know they make money from hardware, but I think it is a real obstacle for certain sections of the market. Deal with the video card issue and it will address a lot of the criticism of the Apple hardware.
Everytime I get into discussions about what Apple should have done to give their customers some freedom of choice or a better choice, I start recalling Apple's commercial of 1984 and wonder in amazement how sometimes Apple appears to act like the Big Brother they confronted. Nobody is forced to buy Apple's products, but for a company that pretends to preach the message in that commercial, I'm astonished how they appear to not listen to their customers who have repeatedly requested more flexibility in some parts especially with video cards. Where are the FireGL or X800and cards for the Mac? If I'm going to pluck down over 3 grand, I want to know I can get the best video card I can.
Originally posted by K-JIN
You all need to chill out a bit, get some liquid cooling in you!
This update is all about shifting out dated stock. We all know that PowerMac sales over the last few months have stagnated. Apple simply have too many bottom of the range mother boards and 970s. This revamp of the line is an attempt to shift as many of them as possible before they can stock pile enough 970fx's. I truly believe that in 3-4 months we'll see the G5 hit 3GHz, along with better graphics cards. Jobs could announce it at WWDC with a 3 month delay in shipping, but I doubt it, he'll probably hold off for a bit.
It's less about the lack of new tech, than about getting rid of what they already have, plus new motherboard designs cost Apple loads. Anyway this time last year we still had only dual 1.4 G4s, the G5s weren't announced until WWDC and the dual 2 GHz didn't ship until much later.
As for the graphics cards, you could expect the new ones to arrive at about the same time as Tiger. By then they will have had plenty of time to prep the PowerMacs, update the drivers and test them to infinity. We've always been late with new graphics cards, why should it change now.
As for the liquid cooling I think Apple were just testing it out in PowerMacs, in preparation for the iMac and even PowerBooks. With it going in those and future PowerMacs it probably just made economical/financial sense to put it in the 2.5. It probably doesn't need it but is an added benefit. And to me says that G5 iMacs are just around the corner.
It?s a fine line between pessimism and optimism!
You know, to be a Mac afficionado, you must bean optmist by nature. With that said, if Jobs wants to hold off on announcing the BIG THING himself, then fine for him but Apple's people today said in several releases there will not be any 3Gigs this year. I can accept that and will trade that for more great software in Tiger. This will give me more time to save the bucks for this dual 2.5GHz, or better later this fall.
Originally posted by K-JIN:
I truly believe that in 3-4 months we'll see the G5 hit 3GHz, along with better graphics cards. Jobs could announce it at WWDC with a 3 month delay in shipping, but I doubt it, he'll probably hold off for a bit.
Put the bong down K-JIN, Apple already said that it was not going to release a 3.0 Ghz rig anytime soon. The writing is already on the wall that we won't see the next PM refresh until the new year. My early prediction is that the next refresh won't hit 3.0 Ghz either unless it occurs 9+ months away. I really think having an Apple rep speaking up now to downplay expectations is a sign to be heeded. The need for liquid cooling on the top end machine is another. I also suspect we'll see mobo upgrade before we hit 3.0 Ghz.
As for the liquid cooling I think Apple were just testing it out in PowerMacs, in preparation for the iMac and even PowerBooks.
Yeah... that's it.
And as far as PCI-E goes, it is just starting to appear on the PC side. I don't expect Apple will incorporate it until the new year either. Hopefully we'll some other improvements as well - onboard RAID, faster HDs, better expansion...
C.
Originally posted by anand
So did Apple make the wrong decision? Remember when Intel had discussed losing the Apple bid, and saying that they felt Apple made a mistake. Now that Apple is back to being stuck with poor chip development, did they make the wrong decision?
No, Apple made the right decision in using the G5, and staying with PPC, but the road was not as kind as they had hoped it would be. Things will be better, and I'm sure they know how to attract some users back now, but until they have the appropriate hardware - sales are not going to be as good as they would like. Apple is going to have to push their other products even harder now to make up for the losses in PowerMac sales. I'm sure they will see a big increase in sales at the upstart, but large #'s of sales they could have had just flew out the window.
I may be just trying to keep hope alive, but what about the difference in the design of the inside? The new 2.5's have the same setup in the 'innards' as the original 1.6, 1.8 & 2.0 G5 models, but what about the new inside design that showed up in the developer manuals that Apple released just recently? Not to mention the new PowerMac 8,1 kernel ?driver? that showed up in the recent update.
Nope! Too much is keeping my dreams alive...