What isa even stranger is that they updated it about two weeks ago \
PalmSource only mentioned they will not support it (ie, done by PalmSource) for PalmOS 6 (aka BeOS). PalmOS 5 is still supported. palmOne does not say they will not support, and mostly likely will have its own solution (probably bundling 3rd parties software).
PalmOS 6 is not BeOS, nor is it based on Be. According to PalmSource, very little code from BeOS has been used in OS6 (Cobalt). Perhaps future versions of PalmOS will have more Be technology, that is of course if PalmSource manages to survive.
look, the palm with it's 1990 technology is nice. but even a stripped down ipod/phone would capture much more of the mp 3 player market even if it only had 10%of the phone market (for now...) most people have a phone and then an ipod. put the 2 together.......
[B]Jobs stated that he is proud not only of the products Apple has shipped, but also the products Apple has decided not to ship. When asked to elaborate, Jobs replied, "an Apple PDA."
Jobs has long maintained that the PDA was going to be eliminated by multi-function phones. And judging by Sony's retreat from the PDA market, he could be right.
Now, the question is: Does Apple have plans to release a multi-function phone? Steve's answer to that has been that it would be hard to do, and be profitable unless you had your own wireless network.
(Of course, there's always wireless access points and VOIP.... It might be difficult, but it's just the kind of paradigm shifting product Apple loves.)
Wouldn't the phone thing actually be easier to pull off in Europe? At least they've standardized with one protocol -- GSM. Or is GSM widespread enough now in the US for it to be a plausible "one fits all" service? But I think Apple getting into the phone area at all is unlikely.
just remember how totaly unexpected the ipod was. many people thought it was the dumbest thing that Apple could have done. In my opinon the ipod is almost as important as the imac was to Apple. Up until the ipod, not many people could carry their entire musical library with them where ever they went. Basicaly, Apple is just a bunch of really smart people thinking up ways to do something so smart that most people think its stupid but then over time they realise just how implausibly clever it was. If Apple really does release something totally new, I doubt it will be a pda because that just doesn't seem clever enough for them, too expected. They could release something like a pda, and maybe they have been purposely holding off until all of the other major competitors pull out, and then will capture the pda market as well they did the music player market with the ipod. And then we would all think it was pretty dumb to release something new into a dying market, but over time, we would see it slowly start to appear everywhere and become something cool. Everything Apple makes has the "cool factor", its just something inexplicable about certain products, they either have or they don't. Price, speed, and practicality don't factor in the cool factor, and the cool factor just makes you want it. Just look at all of apples products and then at all of their competitors products and its pretty obvious which has the cool factor.
Edit - Before Apple came out with the ipod, did you really want an mp3 player with enough room for you entire music library?
this is easily one of the most insightful if not THE most insightful post ive ever read on this message board.
We've got this Toshiba leak about 60GB drives. We've got this persistent "home on iPod" talk (Tiger marquee feature?), this recent AirTunes/wireless stuff, etc.
60GB does seem excessive for a music player. There must be something more to this next generation iPod
Oh stop it!!! There is no Apple PDA. There isn't going to be an Apple PDA. And why in the name of Franz Ferdinand should Apple even WANT in this market. The PDA market is dead, people don't want them (except for geeks).
Perhaps Jobs' statements regarding Apple's non-release of a PDA (with scaled-down OS) was made because there is now some prospect of putting a full blown OS X into a highly portable unit? Could be a very exciting proposition.
It seems like a natural progression of the ipod to include a fully functional pda. It already includes a calendar that syncs with ical. Plus with addition of "home" on your ipod this seems even more likely. 60GB is a good starting point for this palm held computer.
Given the strong statements in the past about apple not venturing into the mobile phone business, it seems unlikely that a phone would be part of this. The mobile phone business is considerably more competitive than the dying pda market and requires more than just good design and marketing. Expertise in telecommunications is an absolute must and venturing into this industry without that bonafide expertise is suicidal.
There are some people out there walking around with their pockets stuffed with an ipod, cell phone and pda. Reducing the clutter to 2 helps - regardless of which 2 are combined. The average person would need to take a class to figure out how to use one device that had all 3 things. And Apple is all about appealing to the average person in order to gain marketshare.
Wouldn't the phone thing actually be easier to pull off in Europe? At least they've standardized with one protocol -- GSM. Or is GSM widespread enough now in the US for it to be a plausible "one fits all" service? But I think Apple getting into the phone area at all is unlikely.
GSM, or no GSM you can't compete with phone companies that give away phones to sell the service. Do you think Apple wants to become a phone company just to sell a multi-function phone? No.
As much as I would LOVE to have an iPhone, iWalk... whatever you want to call it I seriously doubt that Apple will do it. There are WAAAAAAAY too many well established incumbent phone manufacturers and face it the PDA by itself is dead being replaced by PDA phones like the Treo, Samsung I500, Moto MPx200...Aside from offering OSX on a phone Apple would not be bringing any other value to the market, so they would have to make up for it on price. Apple is not known as a low cost provider. If you think of the features we want: Bluetooth, 802.11/x, OSX, iCal, iSync, GPS, ...; its a phone comprable to the upcoming Moto MPx which is supposed to be at or slightly over $1000 retail. Dont think that Apple can undercut that price, especially since thay have no other place to absorb the development costs. Maybe a partnership as Moto is putting a Linux phone out, so why not an OSX phone. The pure Apple phone thing aint gonna happen as ther are way too many hurdles, just in development and not counting FCC certification, service provider agreements...
If the phone is added to the ipod it wouldn't be too much$ apple could buy from moto the bluetooth/gsm/gprs chips.
If the device is sold unlocked then you could use the phone on anyone's gsm service. put the sim chip into the back of the device and you have a working phone. Go to europe plop another gsm chip into the phone and your phone now has a euopean number. In the US you can't get an unlocked phone.
Some people like me, want a phone where they can use it anyway. Apple just needs to do some education. Teach people how to change gsm/gprs sim chips. Having once done it it is ridiculously easy.
They are selling very cheap phones out there. prob with a manufacturing cost of $20. to add that value to an apple device would make for cost effectiveness and thus eliminate 1 device the phone/music player Apple has bundled into the ipod, to do list the calander and the phonebook. For very little money Apple can get into another market share. even if it is only 5% of it's core business it will draw people to the ipod and itms. They will make the choice for apple. People routinely spend $300+ dollars now to buy locked subsidised phones with aggrivating synch abilities.
This product will work worldwide as it looks like gsm is now approaching the worldwide standard. In the US all of the cell companies except sprint use a gsm that includes T-mobile, Cingular/att wireless, Verizon, In europe it is everywhere with virgin, orange and O2 in england.
what a lot of you fail to realize that this market is a lot like mp3 players, at their inception a whole lot of people thought meh.. BIG DEAL. Stop and realize that it is because we have a lot of PDA's to choose from right now and nobody is buying them because they all suck, not because we don't see the value they would add if something more intuitive would come out.
Phones are also about fashion. Ipods are fashion (hense the 4 week wait for the minis)
apple could change the design every year or so and still keep it's factories chugging out the next revision. If some company wants to bundle the ipod/phone let them do it. As long as I can buy an unlocked one from apple.
Huge sales numbers here the US market is only a tiny piece of the global telecom market. In most countiries now more people have a mobile than a wired phone.
Huge untapped market. Phone companies think like phone companies Apple has a different approach.
Go Steve Go!
The companies are all getting it wrong. They build phones that do other things poorly or they build something that is a phone that does both poorly.
apple can do better.
the Moto/M$ smartphone sux. it takes 3min to boot. and the battery life is too short to be useful.
I will disagree, PDA's do not suck. My Axim is great as are many of the Palm and HP units out there. The reason my Axim is going on eBay is because I am tired of feeling like Bat Man with all the carp on my belt, especially since my phone can now act as a PDA. This, I believe is the downfall of the pure PDA.
TednDi,
Making a phone is not that simple. Nokia, Moto, Samsung have had years to ammortize their tooling and development costs, something that Apple will have to start with from scratch. Remember the price of phones when they first came out??? It has only been in recent years, say last 5-10 that phone prices have become affordable. Someone starting from ground zero would either have to go at a loss until their expenses are paid off or sell REALLY expensive phones to cover the development costs. There is also the issue of acceptance. EVERY phone has to be tested and acredited by the FCC and its bretheren accross the world. This is also paid for by the manufacturer. Once the government beurocrats have acredited the phone the individual service provider also does their own testing and beta field trialing, granted this is usually done in parallel with the governmental testing. The manufacturer supplies the phones, which means production facilities have to be established. Not easy to do when one is strating up and not having any $$ coming in. Then there are also liability issues that we dont want to go into. Want to get sued by JoeBlow cause the E911 system didnt get the correct location out to EMS???
Dont get me wrong, I'd like to see and Apple phone simply cause apple would atleast look a heck of a lot better. There are a LOT of issues with the phone market that make it not easy for first timers to enter. There isnt a huge market for expensive phones out there. People arent generally going to go out and spend $500+ on an unlocked phone and this is the likely price range of any Apple phone, simply to cover development costs.
Also, you cant simply make a phone, grab a SIM and use it. The phone has to be rated for the frequencies being used by the service provider. This is why we have the T610, T616 and so forth replications of the same phones. One operates on 900MHz the other on 1800 MHz or something like that anyway. All this means is that you cant take a T-Mobile phone and operate it on an ATT network. Granted there are multi band phones that cover every currently offered frequency, but they are still only going to function as a basic phone on networks that do not officially support the hardware. Ever try to get an unsupported phone working on a network? Tech service refuses to help for most service providers cause they arent making money off of the phone sale, so its a hackfest to get data service, messaging...
The locked phones that are marketed to the masses here in the US are the same phones being used abroad. Granted there are frequency issues particular to each company but. That is easily solveable using quad band chipsets. I am no tech guy by any stretch of the imagination. however I have a nice little panasonic unlocked quad band phone. It works nicely on my ATT wireless gsm service Before that it worked on cingular. Up untill recently Cingular and T-mobile were in a cross use agreement. Funny thing when I travelled to the west coast I was on the T-mobile network and when I got back to the east coast there Was Cingular. No roaming.
Now with the Purchase of ATT wireless by cingular there is one huge cellular company.
Apple could buy the chips pretested from a supplier like phillips then sell the phonepod to anyone. The only reason that the phones are locked here in the US is that the carriers want to keep you locked into their contracts.
Currently there is a lawsuit in California to compel the wireless carriers to unlock the phones after these contracts are over.
My little panasonic unlocked phone has worked on Cingular, Att wireless, T-mobile, Virgin (in the UK) and Orange (in th UK) It has also allowed me to roam onto Vodaphone and O2 networks using my prepaid sim cards from orange and virgin.
Apple simply has to buy quad band gsm/gprs chipsets and put it together.
The response is nano-computing. The size of a PDA but the power of a computer. 60 GB + PPC + OLED + connection.
With such device, Steve is right when he said that apple will not release a PDA.
I agree. I believe it is a full blown 750GX run OS X based computer that can fit in your shirt pocket. All it needs is a DVI, USB and 4-pin Firewire connectors and you're in business. They already have a Windows XP based micro computer - http://www.oqo.com/hardware/basics/. They could try OLED for a display instead of the transflective LCD.
P.S. This was designed by 4 engineers - 2 of them ex-Apple engineers.
Comments
Originally posted by Arty50
I wonder why Palm announced that future versions of Palm Desktop would not support Mac OS X...
What isa even stranger is that they updated it about two weeks ago
Originally posted by Addison
What isa even stranger is that they updated it about two weeks ago
PalmSource only mentioned they will not support it (ie, done by PalmSource) for PalmOS 6 (aka BeOS). PalmOS 5 is still supported. palmOne does not say they will not support, and mostly likely will have its own solution (probably bundling 3rd parties software).
Originally posted by limtc
PalmOS 6 (aka BeOS)
PalmOS 6 is not BeOS, nor is it based on Be. According to PalmSource, very little code from BeOS has been used in OS6 (Cobalt). Perhaps future versions of PalmOS will have more Be technology, that is of course if PalmSource manages to survive.
soon.
please.....
T
I love my iPod. I love drowning out the world (including phones ringing).
If I had to pause my iPod/music to answer a call, I'd hang my self.
Apple can make a phone...great, I'll buy one. But please God, no iPod with a built-in phone...
Granted, if anyone could make it work it would be Apple...but I'm leery of it.
Originally posted by Chaser
[B]Jobs stated that he is proud not only of the products Apple has shipped, but also the products Apple has decided not to ship. When asked to elaborate, Jobs replied, "an Apple PDA."
Jobs has long maintained that the PDA was going to be eliminated by multi-function phones. And judging by Sony's retreat from the PDA market, he could be right.
Now, the question is: Does Apple have plans to release a multi-function phone? Steve's answer to that has been that it would be hard to do, and be profitable unless you had your own wireless network.
(Of course, there's always wireless access points and VOIP.... It might be difficult, but it's just the kind of paradigm shifting product Apple loves.)
Originally posted by little mouse
just remember how totaly unexpected the ipod was. many people thought it was the dumbest thing that Apple could have done. In my opinon the ipod is almost as important as the imac was to Apple. Up until the ipod, not many people could carry their entire musical library with them where ever they went. Basicaly, Apple is just a bunch of really smart people thinking up ways to do something so smart that most people think its stupid but then over time they realise just how implausibly clever it was. If Apple really does release something totally new, I doubt it will be a pda because that just doesn't seem clever enough for them, too expected. They could release something like a pda, and maybe they have been purposely holding off until all of the other major competitors pull out, and then will capture the pda market as well they did the music player market with the ipod. And then we would all think it was pretty dumb to release something new into a dying market, but over time, we would see it slowly start to appear everywhere and become something cool. Everything Apple makes has the "cool factor", its just something inexplicable about certain products, they either have or they don't. Price, speed, and practicality don't factor in the cool factor, and the cool factor just makes you want it. Just look at all of apples products and then at all of their competitors products and its pretty obvious which has the cool factor.
Edit - Before Apple came out with the ipod, did you really want an mp3 player with enough room for you entire music library?
this is easily one of the most insightful if not THE most insightful post ive ever read on this message board.
your dead on.
Originally posted by pscates
We've got this Toshiba leak about 60GB drives. We've got this persistent "home on iPod" talk (Tiger marquee feature?), this recent AirTunes/wireless stuff, etc.
60GB does seem excessive for a music player. There must be something more to this next generation iPod
Originally posted by Foo Fighter
Oh stop it!!! There is no Apple PDA. There isn't going to be an Apple PDA. And why in the name of Franz Ferdinand should Apple even WANT in this market. The PDA market is dead, people don't want them (except for geeks).
Perhaps Jobs' statements regarding Apple's non-release of a PDA (with scaled-down OS) was made because there is now some prospect of putting a full blown OS X into a highly portable unit? Could be a very exciting proposition.
Given the strong statements in the past about apple not venturing into the mobile phone business, it seems unlikely that a phone would be part of this. The mobile phone business is considerably more competitive than the dying pda market and requires more than just good design and marketing. Expertise in telecommunications is an absolute must and venturing into this industry without that bonafide expertise is suicidal.
There are some people out there walking around with their pockets stuffed with an ipod, cell phone and pda. Reducing the clutter to 2 helps - regardless of which 2 are combined. The average person would need to take a class to figure out how to use one device that had all 3 things. And Apple is all about appealing to the average person in order to gain marketshare.
With such device, Steve is right when he said that apple will not release a PDA.
Originally posted by fred_lj
Wouldn't the phone thing actually be easier to pull off in Europe? At least they've standardized with one protocol -- GSM. Or is GSM widespread enough now in the US for it to be a plausible "one fits all" service? But I think Apple getting into the phone area at all is unlikely.
GSM, or no GSM you can't compete with phone companies that give away phones to sell the service. Do you think Apple wants to become a phone company just to sell a multi-function phone? No.
If the device is sold unlocked then you could use the phone on anyone's gsm service. put the sim chip into the back of the device and you have a working phone. Go to europe plop another gsm chip into the phone and your phone now has a euopean number. In the US you can't get an unlocked phone.
Some people like me, want a phone where they can use it anyway. Apple just needs to do some education. Teach people how to change gsm/gprs sim chips. Having once done it it is ridiculously easy.
They are selling very cheap phones out there. prob with a manufacturing cost of $20. to add that value to an apple device would make for cost effectiveness and thus eliminate 1 device the phone/music player Apple has bundled into the ipod, to do list the calander and the phonebook. For very little money Apple can get into another market share. even if it is only 5% of it's core business it will draw people to the ipod and itms. They will make the choice for apple. People routinely spend $300+ dollars now to buy locked subsidised phones with aggrivating synch abilities.
This product will work worldwide as it looks like gsm is now approaching the worldwide standard. In the US all of the cell companies except sprint use a gsm that includes T-mobile, Cingular/att wireless, Verizon, In europe it is everywhere with virgin, orange and O2 in england.
Perfect tie in with itms. europe.
apple could change the design every year or so and still keep it's factories chugging out the next revision. If some company wants to bundle the ipod/phone let them do it. As long as I can buy an unlocked one from apple.
Huge sales numbers here the US market is only a tiny piece of the global telecom market. In most countiries now more people have a mobile than a wired phone.
Huge untapped market. Phone companies think like phone companies Apple has a different approach.
Go Steve Go!
The companies are all getting it wrong. They build phones that do other things poorly or they build something that is a phone that does both poorly.
apple can do better.
the Moto/M$ smartphone sux. it takes 3min to boot. and the battery life is too short to be useful.
I will disagree, PDA's do not suck. My Axim is great as are many of the Palm and HP units out there. The reason my Axim is going on eBay is because I am tired of feeling like Bat Man with all the carp on my belt, especially since my phone can now act as a PDA. This, I believe is the downfall of the pure PDA.
TednDi,
Making a phone is not that simple. Nokia, Moto, Samsung have had years to ammortize their tooling and development costs, something that Apple will have to start with from scratch. Remember the price of phones when they first came out??? It has only been in recent years, say last 5-10 that phone prices have become affordable. Someone starting from ground zero would either have to go at a loss until their expenses are paid off or sell REALLY expensive phones to cover the development costs. There is also the issue of acceptance. EVERY phone has to be tested and acredited by the FCC and its bretheren accross the world. This is also paid for by the manufacturer. Once the government beurocrats have acredited the phone the individual service provider also does their own testing and beta field trialing, granted this is usually done in parallel with the governmental testing. The manufacturer supplies the phones, which means production facilities have to be established. Not easy to do when one is strating up and not having any $$ coming in. Then there are also liability issues that we dont want to go into. Want to get sued by JoeBlow cause the E911 system didnt get the correct location out to EMS???
Dont get me wrong, I'd like to see and Apple phone simply cause apple would atleast look a heck of a lot better. There are a LOT of issues with the phone market that make it not easy for first timers to enter. There isnt a huge market for expensive phones out there. People arent generally going to go out and spend $500+ on an unlocked phone and this is the likely price range of any Apple phone, simply to cover development costs.
Also, you cant simply make a phone, grab a SIM and use it. The phone has to be rated for the frequencies being used by the service provider. This is why we have the T610, T616 and so forth replications of the same phones. One operates on 900MHz the other on 1800 MHz or something like that anyway. All this means is that you cant take a T-Mobile phone and operate it on an ATT network. Granted there are multi band phones that cover every currently offered frequency, but they are still only going to function as a basic phone on networks that do not officially support the hardware. Ever try to get an unsupported phone working on a network? Tech service refuses to help for most service providers cause they arent making money off of the phone sale, so its a hackfest to get data service, messaging...
http://www.commsdesign.com/new_produ...cleID=16500333
The locked phones that are marketed to the masses here in the US are the same phones being used abroad. Granted there are frequency issues particular to each company but. That is easily solveable using quad band chipsets. I am no tech guy by any stretch of the imagination. however I have a nice little panasonic unlocked quad band phone. It works nicely on my ATT wireless gsm service Before that it worked on cingular. Up untill recently Cingular and T-mobile were in a cross use agreement. Funny thing when I travelled to the west coast I was on the T-mobile network and when I got back to the east coast there Was Cingular. No roaming.
Now with the Purchase of ATT wireless by cingular there is one huge cellular company.
Apple could buy the chips pretested from a supplier like phillips then sell the phonepod to anyone. The only reason that the phones are locked here in the US is that the carriers want to keep you locked into their contracts.
Currently there is a lawsuit in California to compel the wireless carriers to unlock the phones after these contracts are over.
http://www.latimes.com/technology/la...nes-technology
My little panasonic unlocked phone has worked on Cingular, Att wireless, T-mobile, Virgin (in the UK) and Orange (in th UK) It has also allowed me to roam onto Vodaphone and O2 networks using my prepaid sim cards from orange and virgin.
Apple simply has to buy quad band gsm/gprs chipsets and put it together.
Originally posted by therubicon
The response is nano-computing. The size of a PDA but the power of a computer. 60 GB + PPC + OLED + connection.
With such device, Steve is right when he said that apple will not release a PDA.
I agree. I believe it is a full blown 750GX run OS X based computer that can fit in your shirt pocket. All it needs is a DVI, USB and 4-pin Firewire connectors and you're in business. They already have a Windows XP based micro computer - http://www.oqo.com/hardware/basics/. They could try OLED for a display instead of the transflective LCD.
P.S. This was designed by 4 engineers - 2 of them ex-Apple engineers.