For everybody who thinks Apple "owes" them something - since when did Apple become beholden to you? Did you loan them money and they forgot to pay you back? Apple is a business not a charity dammit! It's not their duty to shower you with favors just because you bought a Mac from them once!
And for what will God willing be the last time: If you believe that Apple should have had faster processors in the Macintosh by now... TALK TO MOTOROLA.
Okay, in case you didn't hear that, I'm going to say it again:
TALK TO MOTOROLA.
Any speed complaints with the new Macs should be addressed directly to Motorola. Do not stop at Apple and collect what they "owe" you, go directly to Motorola and bitch to them about their substandard scaling of the G4 chip.
Or just get a PC and stop whinging. Either way, I don't care.
You know, right now, Jobs is in his lair, thinking "yeah, that half-assed DDR will keep everyone off my back for a year or two, damn all these AI crackpots who think we're not doing enough... now we just give them Jagwyre and I'll be in black polo-necks for the rest of my days" ...
Or maybe he's thinking "right, as soon as Jagwyre's out of the door, let's kick some serious ass on the hardware side and reclaim the high ground from Wintel".
Using your skill and judgement, which SJ do you think is more likely?
<strong>For everybody who thinks Apple "owes" them something - since when did Apple become beholden to you? Did you loan them money and they forgot to pay you back? Apple is a business not a charity dammit! It's not their duty to shower you with favors just because you bought a Mac from them once!
And for what will God willing be the last time: If you believe that Apple should have had faster processors in the Macintosh by now... TALK TO MOTOROLA.
Okay, in case you didn't hear that, I'm going to say it again:
TALK TO MOTOROLA.
Any speed complaints with the new Macs should be addressed directly to Motorola. Do not stop at Apple and collect what they "owe" you, go directly to Motorola and bitch to them about their substandard scaling of the G4 chip.
Or just get a PC and stop whinging. Either way, I don't care.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Dude, my point is - we are willing to stick by them and buy their inferior overpriced PMs despite having better hardware options out there - I think they do need to come out and explain what is their long term PM strategy - most other Chip and Computer makers do that ... only Apple are as secretive as hell and expect us to take their boloney only because we love their software .. well it aint gona last much longer if they keep going this way !
<strong>well it aint gona last much longer if they keep going this way !</strong><hr></blockquote>
Okay, clearly I didn't get through to you last time. What part of "talk to Motorola" didn't you understand? I mean come on, it's not that difficult. Surely you must realize by now that Motorola is singly responsible for everything that you believe is wrong with Apple's Powermacs. It's either that or I've given you far too much credit.
Furthermore, what makes you think Apple WANTS to stay behind? No, really - explain why you think Apple is INTENTIONALLY only just now using a 166 MHz bus and not going to a 533 Mhz bus.
What makes you think Apple isn't doing something about it? What exactly is convincing you that Apple hasn't been talking to IBM about putting their new Power 4-based chip into the next gen of Powermacs? To put it another way, why do you believe Apple is content with the current situation? Do you imagine Apple enjoys being sodomized by Motorola?
Please put some thought into what you're saying, and what you believe. Apple is not nearly as stupid as you would have us believe, nor are they ignorant of their current situation. They're doing everything they can possibly do to compensate for Motorola's lack of progress, and that includes working with other chip vendors to come up with something for the next generation of Powermacs so that Apple isn't hamstrung by Motorola any more.
Okay, clearly I didn't get through to you last time. What part of "talk to Motorola" didn't you understand? I mean come on, it's not that difficult. Surely you must realize by now that Motorola is singly responsible for everything that you believe is wrong with Apple's Powermacs. It's either that or I've given you far too much credit.
.........
At least try to place blame where it belongs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I buy my machine from Apple .. who cares about Mot ... If they can't deliver the goods drop them - Apple must have a contingency plan here, and they should publicly spell it out !
get chips from IBM, get them from AMD hell get them from ChipZilla or make them yourself but this is the computer business if your chip's no good .. well, you get my meaning...
I'm not interested in the politics of Apple vs Mot but I do want a fast desktop that is reasonable value for my money and if Apple won't provide one soon then my next box might just be a PC (yikes )
[EDIT] BTW, you ask what makes me think Apple isn't doing anything about this issue - well,I'm sure they are and I'm sure they know or have a reasonable grasp of the mess they are in, but this (Mot's lack of interest and investment in R&D and very slow progress) has been a problem ever since the G4 was released if they would have had any sense they would have started planing for this 2.5 years ago and we wouldent be where we are today.....
LOL so now I have become unholy for dearing to criticize Apple ? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
I really, really dont want a PC - I hate them and I hate Windows but Apple is really getting on my nerves latly, why can't they come out and lay down a plan for fixing their chip problems / every other corporation does it - its called a roadmap ... if they dont people will loose their trust in Apple
I am truly amazed at the reaction of people to Apple's new hardware. I have to admit that I am not 100% up-to-speed on the current Wintel desktop offerings but I am 100% up-to-speed on the server hardware out there.
I just purchased a Dell 2650 server with Dual Xeon 2.4's, 3G RAM, 400Mhz FSB and a maximum of 3.2 G/sec memory throughput.
Just for kicks we installed Windows 2000 Advanced Server on this machine and we were truly disappointed in the performance of windows on it. We only played with Photoshop on it but we didn't see the speed increase that we had anticipated. Now Linux on this machine...that's another story It just flies!
All this crying about the processors aren't fast enough, the memory throughput isn't good enough...these people are NEVER going to be happy. We need to realize that there are people in this world that see a half-full cup and other that see the same cup as being half-empty.
LOL so now I have become unholy for dearing to criticize Apple ?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, that's not what he said at all. It's not that you're daring to criticize Apple. It's that you can't seem to grasp where the problem actually lies, and you whine a lot.
Constructive criticism is one thing, flat out whining is something else entirely. Guess which one you're doing? I'm sure we're all so sorry you're disappointed with the new Powermacs... wait, no we're not. If you can't see that Apple is doing as well as it possibly can given what they have to work with, then there will be no convincing you of anything because you can't see the forest for the trees.
As far as the future, you're whining about that too. Never mind that you're not psychic, try just using some of the available facts at hand rather than assuming Apple is content to do nothing.
It still amazes me that you can whine so much about Powermacs that are easily faster than any Mac you own or use right now. I mean, maybe if Apple had released something SLOWER than existing hardware... but no, apparently a 250 MHz per chip jump in speed in addition to faster bus speeds doesn't cut it any more.
I was one of the biggest whiners about Apple's lack of DDR RAM (true DDR RAM) and was making noises about going Wintel. But then I was "schooled" about a true balanced system, and how all these whiz-bang features we're missing really don't mean squat in real-world performance. The hardware and OS working together are what makes this the best platform, and will continue to be the best.
Trust me, the funk is coming in the form of the new IBM Power4-derivative processor that will be the future of Mac computing. We're gonna have to ride out the G4 for another 6 months to a year, speed bumps along the way, but by next summer's MacWorld SJ and company will light it up. I hate to have to wait that long, but take comfort in the fact that the current hardware is nothing to sneeze at. Is it the max? No. But it's pretty damn good, and anything that runs Jaguar is about to really shine. Make sure your tray tables are in their upright and locked positions, seatbelts are fastened, and then click "Install." Hoo-ah!
[quote]Apple is Motorola's bitch for now, but they're getting out of prison soon.
Building a mobo around the G4 is like putting lipstick on a pig. <hr></blockquote>
JYD, you have such a great way of putting things.
I think most of the worries here are based on the beliefs that a) Apple has no idea that their machines are perceived as being slow and overpriced, or b) they know but don't care, or c) the could do something about it but won't. Come on, you know it frosts Jobs and Apple as much as it does us that peecees are perceived as being such great price/performance values, but they can't just change processor strategies at the drop of a hat. They're paying for their decision to go with the G4 and I'm sure they're going to rectify it as soon as they can. But what are they supposed to do in the meantime? Come out and say "Guys, we know you think these Power Macs suck, but in nine months we're going to move to a processor that will blow everything else into the weeds. But we really need you to keep buying these Power Macs in the meantime, okay?"
Apple will get over this hump. They have been in far worse financial shape than they are now; they aren't going to disappear. They have had breakthrough hardware before and they can have it again. Although I did tell someone today that I want a Power4-based Mac that's so fast it can bend time, so I can actually finish projects before I start them. I hope I'm not expecting too much... :eek:
<strong>From what I'm told, the motherboard is pretty similar to the XServe mobo -- thus, you're looking at a DDR implementation that isn't exactly all it can be.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey Moki. In a thread in the future hardware section, somebody mentioned that the next powermac release may be a stopgap solution. Were you the one who said something to this effect? If so, can you repost what you said?
Hey Moki. In a thread in the future hardware section, somebody mentioned that the next powermac release may be a stopgap solution. Were you the one who said something to this effect? If so, can you repost what you said?
If you not the one, please ignore this.
Thx.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, I'm the one -- I don't recall exactly what I said in that post, but basically, there has been a super-spiffy mobo in the works for a while -- it was actually supposed to ship last year. But it has been plagued with problems because it was so packed with features, and from what I understand, one of the engineers was fired over it.
Ok, enough arguing - Anyone knows if these machines are quieter then the last 2 generation QS PMs ? I really would love to have a quite box in my studio .....
Comments
Worth it to sell my dual GHz for a new one? I dunno.
Oh, and they do owe it to us. We pay top dollar, we want top dollar machines.
And for what will God willing be the last time: If you believe that Apple should have had faster processors in the Macintosh by now... TALK TO MOTOROLA.
Okay, in case you didn't hear that, I'm going to say it again:
TALK TO MOTOROLA.
Any speed complaints with the new Macs should be addressed directly to Motorola. Do not stop at Apple and collect what they "owe" you, go directly to Motorola and bitch to them about their substandard scaling of the G4 chip.
Or just get a PC and stop whinging. Either way, I don't care.
Or maybe he's thinking "right, as soon as Jagwyre's out of the door, let's kick some serious ass on the hardware side and reclaim the high ground from Wintel".
Using your skill and judgement, which SJ do you think is more likely?
<strong>For everybody who thinks Apple "owes" them something - since when did Apple become beholden to you? Did you loan them money and they forgot to pay you back? Apple is a business not a charity dammit! It's not their duty to shower you with favors just because you bought a Mac from them once!
And for what will God willing be the last time: If you believe that Apple should have had faster processors in the Macintosh by now... TALK TO MOTOROLA.
Okay, in case you didn't hear that, I'm going to say it again:
TALK TO MOTOROLA.
Any speed complaints with the new Macs should be addressed directly to Motorola. Do not stop at Apple and collect what they "owe" you, go directly to Motorola and bitch to them about their substandard scaling of the G4 chip.
Or just get a PC and stop whinging. Either way, I don't care.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Dude, my point is - we are willing to stick by them and buy their inferior overpriced PMs despite having better hardware options out there - I think they do need to come out and explain what is their long term PM strategy - most other Chip and Computer makers do that ... only Apple are as secretive as hell and expect us to take their boloney only because we love their software .. well it aint gona last much longer if they keep going this way !
<strong>well it aint gona last much longer if they keep going this way !</strong><hr></blockquote>
Okay, clearly I didn't get through to you last time. What part of "talk to Motorola" didn't you understand? I mean come on, it's not that difficult. Surely you must realize by now that Motorola is singly responsible for everything that you believe is wrong with Apple's Powermacs. It's either that or I've given you far too much credit.
Furthermore, what makes you think Apple WANTS to stay behind? No, really - explain why you think Apple is INTENTIONALLY only just now using a 166 MHz bus and not going to a 533 Mhz bus.
What makes you think Apple isn't doing something about it? What exactly is convincing you that Apple hasn't been talking to IBM about putting their new Power 4-based chip into the next gen of Powermacs? To put it another way, why do you believe Apple is content with the current situation? Do you imagine Apple enjoys being sodomized by Motorola?
Please put some thought into what you're saying, and what you believe. Apple is not nearly as stupid as you would have us believe, nor are they ignorant of their current situation. They're doing everything they can possibly do to compensate for Motorola's lack of progress, and that includes working with other chip vendors to come up with something for the next generation of Powermacs so that Apple isn't hamstrung by Motorola any more.
At least try to place blame where it belongs.
<strong>
Okay, clearly I didn't get through to you last time. What part of "talk to Motorola" didn't you understand? I mean come on, it's not that difficult. Surely you must realize by now that Motorola is singly responsible for everything that you believe is wrong with Apple's Powermacs. It's either that or I've given you far too much credit.
.........
At least try to place blame where it belongs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I buy my machine from Apple .. who cares about Mot ... If they can't deliver the goods drop them - Apple must have a contingency plan here, and they should publicly spell it out !
get chips from IBM, get them from AMD hell get them from ChipZilla or make them yourself but this is the computer business if your chip's no good .. well, you get my meaning...
I'm not interested in the politics of Apple vs Mot but I do want a fast desktop that is reasonable value for my money and if Apple won't provide one soon then my next box might just be a PC (yikes
[EDIT] BTW, you ask what makes me think Apple isn't doing anything about this issue - well,I'm sure they are and I'm sure they know or have a reasonable grasp of the mess they are in, but this (Mot's lack of interest and investment in R&D and very slow progress) has been a problem ever since the G4 was released if they would have had any sense they would have started planing for this 2.5 years ago and we wouldent be where we are today.....
[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: rashumon ]</p>
Sheesh.
Jet
<strong>Go buy a PC and go away.
Sheesh.
Jet</strong><hr></blockquote>
LOL so now I have become unholy for dearing to criticize Apple ? <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />
I really, really dont want a PC - I hate them and I hate Windows but Apple is really getting on my nerves latly, why can't they come out and lay down a plan for fixing their chip problems / every other corporation does it - its called a roadmap ... if they dont people will loose their trust in Apple
<strong>Go buy a PC and go away.
Sheesh.
Jet</strong><hr></blockquote>
this attitude is why Apple can piss on you.... because you'll smile and say: "aw... its warm"
I just purchased a Dell 2650 server with Dual Xeon 2.4's, 3G RAM, 400Mhz FSB and a maximum of 3.2 G/sec memory throughput.
Just for kicks we installed Windows 2000 Advanced Server on this machine and we were truly disappointed in the performance of windows on it. We only played with Photoshop on it but we didn't see the speed increase that we had anticipated. Now Linux on this machine...that's another story
All this crying about the processors aren't fast enough, the memory throughput isn't good enough...these people are NEVER going to be happy. We need to realize that there are people in this world that see a half-full cup and other that see the same cup as being half-empty.
The new machines are GREAT machines.
[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: Mike ]</p>
<strong>
LOL so now I have become unholy for dearing to criticize Apple ?</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, that's not what he said at all. It's not that you're daring to criticize Apple. It's that you can't seem to grasp where the problem actually lies, and you whine a lot.
Constructive criticism is one thing, flat out whining is something else entirely. Guess which one you're doing? I'm sure we're all so sorry you're disappointed with the new Powermacs... wait, no we're not. If you can't see that Apple is doing as well as it possibly can given what they have to work with, then there will be no convincing you of anything because you can't see the forest for the trees.
As far as the future, you're whining about that too. Never mind that you're not psychic, try just using some of the available facts at hand rather than assuming Apple is content to do nothing.
It still amazes me that you can whine so much about Powermacs that are easily faster than any Mac you own or use right now. I mean, maybe if Apple had released something SLOWER than existing hardware... but no, apparently a 250 MHz per chip jump in speed in addition to faster bus speeds doesn't cut it any more.
Trust me, the funk is coming in the form of the new IBM Power4-derivative processor that will be the future of Mac computing. We're gonna have to ride out the G4 for another 6 months to a year, speed bumps along the way, but by next summer's MacWorld SJ and company will light it up. I hate to have to wait that long, but take comfort in the fact that the current hardware is nothing to sneeze at. Is it the max? No. But it's pretty damn good, and anything that runs Jaguar is about to really shine. Make sure your tray tables are in their upright and locked positions, seatbelts are fastened, and then click "Install." Hoo-ah!
Building a mobo around the G4 is like putting lipstick on a pig. <hr></blockquote>
JYD, you have such a great way of putting things.
I think most of the worries here are based on the beliefs that a) Apple has no idea that their machines are perceived as being slow and overpriced, or b) they know but don't care, or c) the could do something about it but won't. Come on, you know it frosts Jobs and Apple as much as it does us that peecees are perceived as being such great price/performance values, but they can't just change processor strategies at the drop of a hat. They're paying for their decision to go with the G4 and I'm sure they're going to rectify it as soon as they can. But what are they supposed to do in the meantime? Come out and say "Guys, we know you think these Power Macs suck, but in nine months we're going to move to a processor that will blow everything else into the weeds. But we really need you to keep buying these Power Macs in the meantime, okay?"
Apple will get over this hump. They have been in far worse financial shape than they are now; they aren't going to disappear. They have had breakthrough hardware before and they can have it again. Although I did tell someone today that I want a Power4-based Mac that's so fast it can bend time, so I can actually finish projects before I start them. I hope I'm not expecting too much... :eek:
<strong>From what I'm told, the motherboard is pretty similar to the XServe mobo -- thus, you're looking at a DDR implementation that isn't exactly all it can be.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hey Moki. In a thread in the future hardware section, somebody mentioned that the next powermac release may be a stopgap solution. Were you the one who said something to this effect? If so, can you repost what you said?
If you not the one, please ignore this.
Thx.
<strong>
Hey Moki. In a thread in the future hardware section, somebody mentioned that the next powermac release may be a stopgap solution. Were you the one who said something to this effect? If so, can you repost what you said?
If you not the one, please ignore this.
Thx.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, I'm the one -- I don't recall exactly what I said in that post, but basically, there has been a super-spiffy mobo in the works for a while -- it was actually supposed to ship last year. But it has been plagued with problems because it was so packed with features, and from what I understand, one of the engineers was fired over it.