I dont believe becuase they have no information about the new ones, when the other PM on the page as everything about it on its page. as I said in the other thread (which shoulda been kept open IMHO) why would Apple let them have the information that the rumor sites have, but not the rest of it? You would think they would give them all the info if they wanted them to update the site.
Agent Cooper: [quote] Enjoy your date with the Dell Dude, Dude. Don't trip over your skirt on the way out....<hr></blockquote>
The point is that should we be content to accept poor performance from an Apple Powermac or should we demanding the best? You may be happy to bend over and kiss Steve's ass whatever he brings out but unless people show their frustration and anger at the situation then nothing will change. Do you think those people who complain about the $100 for .mac should be quiet too???
My point was simple. We have the best OS in the world. OS 10.2 is truely awesome yet we are stil crippled by poor performing Powermacs ( when compared to the best that PC's have to offer). Can you seriously be satisfied that we are stuck at 1.25GHz chips? Dual is great for a few apps and helps the OS along otherwise it does not compensate for chips with half the grunt of a P4.
As others have said those complaining and demanding more are the ones who care most about Apple. When Apple finally shift from Motorola to IBM and the Power4 then we will see the true potential of the best OS in the world at work. Until then I wont be satisfied. As to buying a PC it is a decision that reflects my attitude. of course I will have a Mac also but will forego the expense of a top end 1.25GHz Mac and pick up a cheap dual 1GHz QS instead and wait for the real power to come.
Personally I think that the Superdrive should be an ( affordable) option for those that want it and lower the price for those that don't
<strong>in addition, you could even optimize compiler to increase performance as well. but apple are not doing any of them, at least from what is happening.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple has been working on optimising their compilers. That's where a large part of the performance jump in Jaguar comes from.
Gee, if my car went from 200KW to 250KW and the price was about the same i'd be stoked.
THIS IF TRUE, IS NOT JUST A 250MHz increase at the top, its 2 X 250MHz. Bandwidth may be an issue although i'm sure most professionals will find this MORE than adequate as an upgrade to their dual gig. Equates to something like a 500MHz upgrade per processor if you take the bandwidth pump and proc speedup, DO THE MATH.
And you won't see a "fully implemented DDR" in these models as that would require a REDO on the G4. Won't happen.
<grumbles something about whining fools who WONT even be in the market for a PowerMac even if it was a mythical G5>
"Beyond the rumour sites. Way beyond"<hr></blockquote>
BTW Moonraker, I think you mean "Beyond the rumor sites. Way beyond." which has the American spelling of rumor, not the British. Just thought I'd be a brat about it since you're quoting
The point is that should we be content to accept poor performance from an Apple Powermac or should we demanding the best? You may be happy to bend over and kiss Steve's ass whatever he brings out but unless people show their frustration and anger at the situation then nothing will change. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not Kissing SJs ass, but I'm tired of people spouting off 'I'm switching to PC" everytime they build up unreasonable expectaions and are let down by the real world.
<strong> [quote]Do you think those people who complain about the $100 for .mac should be quiet too???</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, I have no opinion whatsoever on .Mac, and I'm not sure why its assumed I would.
<strong> [quote]
My point was simple. We have the best OS in the world. OS 10.2 is truely awesome </strong><hr></blockquote>
Looks like you're right about that
<strong> [quote]yet we are stil crippled by poor performing Powermacs ( when compared to the best that PC's have to offer). Can you seriously be satisfied that we are stuck at 1.25GHz chips? Dual is great for a few apps and helps the OS along otherwise it does not compensate for chips with half the grunt of a P4.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What I don't understand is why people even compare the chips! I realize apple does not exist in a vacuum, but to be perfectly honest the current line of PowerMacs still kick ass, and no I don't know that a 1.25 GHZ PM will cripple Jaguar, in fact, from what i've heard Jaguar runs fast one some BEIGE machines. The software is where apple needs to focus, more apps to take advantage of AltiVec would be nice - because that side of the processor has only just begun to be utilized - see DVDSP and FCP3. My point is this - Why do we let Intel draw on our insecurities and an bully us into a Mhz Pissing match? Threatening to leave the Mac platform every time our own internal expectations aren't met seems childish.
<strong> [quote]As others have said those complaining and demanding more are the ones who care most about Apple. When Apple finally shift from Motorola to IBM and the Power4 then we will see the true potential of the best OS in the world at work. Until then I wont be satisfied. As to buying a PC it is a decision that reflects my attitude. of course I will have a Mac also but will forego the expense of a top end 1.25GHz Mac and pick up a cheap dual 1GHz QS instead and wait for the real power to come.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am always interested in the next generations to come from Mac, and I'm also infavor of a switch to IBM, and after I see what the specs on the new 1.25Ghz macs are, i may decide to buy a Dual 1Gig QS at cut rate prices as well, but I really don't understand why everyone got so upset at the revalation they weren't getting dual 3Ghz g5s... sure It'd be nice but is it reasonable to get so hyped up on purely imagined specs? besides, I've said it before, switching to PC is not an act of protest - its an act of masochism. I've been there, I've dealt with those machines and I can tell you this much - given the choice between a 50 Mhz mac and a 50Ghz PC - I'd still take the Mac. With a PC, its just more clock cycles for for the OS to screw up.
<strong> [quote]Personally I think that the Superdrive should be an ( affordable) option for those that want it and lower the price for those that don't</strong><hr></blockquote>
[quote] Why do we let Intel draw on our insecurities and an bully us into a Mhz Pissing match? Threatening to leave the Mac platform every time our own internal expectations aren't met seems childish. <hr></blockquote>
I am not aware of 'threatening' to leave the mac platform before mainly because it has not crossed my mind before.
I also don't believe having realisitc expectations of performance from a Powermac is childish. What is so 'unrealistic' about expecting better perfomance from Apple computers? After all the technology is there but Apple are let down a lot by the progress from Motorola.
The reason for mentioning PC performance is to draw comparisons to what is achievable. Nothing more.
[quote] No, I have no opinion whatsoever on .Mac, and I'm not sure why its assumed I would. <hr></blockquote>
The issue was not what you thought about .mac but that mac users have every right to get up and shout about something that pisses them off. For me it is one of the strengths of Apple that they have this expectation from their community. The same reason why people complain about poor performance mainly due to Motorola letting Apple down and hopefully one of the reasons Apple will move soon to another chip provider like IBM or AMD etc.
[quote]..... but I really don't understand why everyone got so upset at the revalation they weren't getting dual 3Ghz......... g5s. <hr></blockquote>
When did I state that ??????? Only the extreme optomist would expect that. Me, I wish for decent and achievable levels of performance. For me personally that would be a similar level to AMD at 1.8 GHz. I would LOVE to have P4 2.45GHz performance in a Powermac but not at the price of having to use Windows everyday.
I think most punters would be happy at 1.6GHz as a realistic level. More than the GHz part though is the motherboard and present lack of 'proper' DDR support let alone no Rambus. These are the parts readily available in a P which just are not there in a Powermac. Perhaps later today we will have pucka DDR support and faster throughout which will go some way to realsing the latent power we already have. The disappointment comes from the figures quoted being below 'reasonable' expectation especially at a time we have Jaguar 10.2 which cries out for decent power.
Comments
heheh.
side note: is appleinsider having server problems and having to constrain Topics to a minimum?
Anyways...I don't believe the flybymicro store, because of it's ineptness.
G-News
<strong>What few understand, is that it's not the machine that makes a good Quaker, it's the skill.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, it sure ain't the dancing!
Thank you. You've been a great audience. Please try the veal.
The point is that should we be content to accept poor performance from an Apple Powermac or should we demanding the best? You may be happy to bend over and kiss Steve's ass whatever he brings out but unless people show their frustration and anger at the situation then nothing will change. Do you think those people who complain about the $100 for .mac should be quiet too???
My point was simple. We have the best OS in the world. OS 10.2 is truely awesome yet we are stil crippled by poor performing Powermacs ( when compared to the best that PC's have to offer). Can you seriously be satisfied that we are stuck at 1.25GHz chips? Dual is great for a few apps and helps the OS along otherwise it does not compensate for chips with half the grunt of a P4.
As others have said those complaining and demanding more are the ones who care most about Apple. When Apple finally shift from Motorola to IBM and the Power4 then we will see the true potential of the best OS in the world at work. Until then I wont be satisfied. As to buying a PC it is a decision that reflects my attitude. of course I will have a Mac also but will forego the expense of a top end 1.25GHz Mac and pick up a cheap dual 1GHz QS instead and wait for the real power to come.
Personally I think that the Superdrive should be an ( affordable) option for those that want it and lower the price for those that don't
<strong>in addition, you could even optimize compiler to increase performance as well. but apple are not doing any of them, at least from what is happening.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Apple has been working on optimising their compilers. That's where a large part of the performance jump in Jaguar comes from.
True.
[quote]Moto and Apple aren't following Moore's law, what you mean is Murphy's law. <hr></blockquote>
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
The powermacs are only hours away. Let's hope.
It's bedtime, and this is my last post here for the night. Goodnight. You too wax.
[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: willywalloo ]
[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: willywalloo ]</p>
Is that 9.5 x 133 MHz = 1263 MHz
Or is it 7.5 x 166 MHz = 1245 MHz
Someone care to speculate?
<a href="http://flymilesmicro.com/browse_by_brand.html?BRAND_ID=199&CATEGORY_ID=12"; target="_blank">http://flymilesmicro.com/browse_by_brand.html?BRAND_ID=199&CATEGORY_ID=12</a>;
Looks like MacMinute called it.
I guess this thread can be locked now and we can continue discussing this in Current Hardware.
THIS IF TRUE, IS NOT JUST A 250MHz increase at the top, its 2 X 250MHz. Bandwidth may be an issue although i'm sure most professionals will find this MORE than adequate as an upgrade to their dual gig. Equates to something like a 500MHz upgrade per processor if you take the bandwidth pump and proc speedup, DO THE MATH.
And you won't see a "fully implemented DDR" in these models as that would require a REDO on the G4. Won't happen.
<grumbles something about whining fools who WONT even be in the market for a PowerMac even if it was a mythical G5>
Have a NICE day.
I believe in Dragons,
Good Men & Other
Fantasy Creatures.
"Beyond the rumour sites. Way beyond"<hr></blockquote>
BTW Moonraker, I think you mean "Beyond the rumor sites. Way beyond." which has the American spelling of rumor, not the British. Just thought I'd be a brat about it since you're quoting
<strong>1.25 GHz? What is that?
Is that 9.5 x 133 MHz = 1263 MHz
Or is it 7.5 x 166 MHz = 1245 MHz
Someone care to speculate?</strong><hr></blockquote>
1.25GHz = 166.66MHz X 7.5
1GHz = 166.66MHz X 6 or 133.33 X 7.5 (Yikes!)
867MHz = 133.33 X 6.5 (Yikes!)
but I suppose we'll all see for certain in just a few hours!
[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: off/lang ]</p>
<a href="http://www.flymilesmicro.com/browse_by_brand.html?BRAND_ID=199&CATEGORY_ID=12"; target="_blank">http://www.flymilesmicro.com/browse_by_brand.html?BRAND_ID=199&CATEGORY_ID=12</a>;
Hope it wasn?t mentioned somewhere else at AI before
Addendum: Just centimeters above me, sorry for that.
-Oli
[ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: oli2000 ]</p>
<strong>Agent Cooper:
The point is that should we be content to accept poor performance from an Apple Powermac or should we demanding the best? You may be happy to bend over and kiss Steve's ass whatever he brings out but unless people show their frustration and anger at the situation then nothing will change. </strong><hr></blockquote>
I'm not Kissing SJs ass, but I'm tired of people spouting off 'I'm switching to PC" everytime they build up unreasonable expectaions and are let down by the real world.
<strong> [quote]Do you think those people who complain about the $100 for .mac should be quiet too???</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, I have no opinion whatsoever on .Mac, and I'm not sure why its assumed I would.
<strong> [quote]
My point was simple. We have the best OS in the world. OS 10.2 is truely awesome </strong><hr></blockquote>
Looks like you're right about that
<strong> [quote]yet we are stil crippled by poor performing Powermacs ( when compared to the best that PC's have to offer). Can you seriously be satisfied that we are stuck at 1.25GHz chips? Dual is great for a few apps and helps the OS along otherwise it does not compensate for chips with half the grunt of a P4.</strong><hr></blockquote>
What I don't understand is why people even compare the chips! I realize apple does not exist in a vacuum, but to be perfectly honest the current line of PowerMacs still kick ass, and no I don't know that a 1.25 GHZ PM will cripple Jaguar, in fact, from what i've heard Jaguar runs fast one some BEIGE machines. The software is where apple needs to focus, more apps to take advantage of AltiVec would be nice - because that side of the processor has only just begun to be utilized - see DVDSP and FCP3. My point is this - Why do we let Intel draw on our insecurities and an bully us into a Mhz Pissing match? Threatening to leave the Mac platform every time our own internal expectations aren't met seems childish.
<strong> [quote]As others have said those complaining and demanding more are the ones who care most about Apple. When Apple finally shift from Motorola to IBM and the Power4 then we will see the true potential of the best OS in the world at work. Until then I wont be satisfied. As to buying a PC it is a decision that reflects my attitude. of course I will have a Mac also but will forego the expense of a top end 1.25GHz Mac and pick up a cheap dual 1GHz QS instead and wait for the real power to come.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I am always interested in the next generations to come from Mac, and I'm also infavor of a switch to IBM, and after I see what the specs on the new 1.25Ghz macs are, i may decide to buy a Dual 1Gig QS at cut rate prices as well, but I really don't understand why everyone got so upset at the revalation they weren't getting dual 3Ghz g5s... sure It'd be nice but is it reasonable to get so hyped up on purely imagined specs? besides, I've said it before, switching to PC is not an act of protest - its an act of masochism. I've been there, I've dealt with those machines and I can tell you this much - given the choice between a 50 Mhz mac and a 50Ghz PC - I'd still take the Mac. With a PC, its just more clock cycles for for the OS to screw up.
<strong> [quote]Personally I think that the Superdrive should be an ( affordable) option for those that want it and lower the price for those that don't</strong><hr></blockquote>
Hear hear!
[quote] Why do we let Intel draw on our insecurities and an bully us into a Mhz Pissing match? Threatening to leave the Mac platform every time our own internal expectations aren't met seems childish. <hr></blockquote>
I am not aware of 'threatening' to leave the mac platform before mainly because it has not crossed my mind before.
I also don't believe having realisitc expectations of performance from a Powermac is childish. What is so 'unrealistic' about expecting better perfomance from Apple computers? After all the technology is there but Apple are let down a lot by the progress from Motorola.
The reason for mentioning PC performance is to draw comparisons to what is achievable. Nothing more.
[quote] No, I have no opinion whatsoever on .Mac, and I'm not sure why its assumed I would. <hr></blockquote>
The issue was not what you thought about .mac but that mac users have every right to get up and shout about something that pisses them off. For me it is one of the strengths of Apple that they have this expectation from their community. The same reason why people complain about poor performance mainly due to Motorola letting Apple down and hopefully one of the reasons Apple will move soon to another chip provider like IBM or AMD etc.
[quote]..... but I really don't understand why everyone got so upset at the revalation they weren't getting dual 3Ghz......... g5s. <hr></blockquote>
When did I state that ??????? Only the extreme optomist would expect that. Me, I wish for decent and achievable levels of performance. For me personally that would be a similar level to AMD at 1.8 GHz. I would LOVE to have P4 2.45GHz performance in a Powermac but not at the price of having to use Windows everyday.
I think most punters would be happy at 1.6GHz as a realistic level. More than the GHz part though is the motherboard and present lack of 'proper' DDR support let alone no Rambus. These are the parts readily available in a P which just are not there in a Powermac. Perhaps later today we will have pucka DDR support and faster throughout which will go some way to realsing the latent power we already have. The disappointment comes from the figures quoted being below 'reasonable' expectation especially at a time we have Jaguar 10.2 which cries out for decent power.