all Tower Duals reveal a desperate move

Posted:
in Current Mac Hardware edited January 2014
..just like when moto was stuck at [email protected], and there was no other way but to put two cpus in the more expensive towers to make people think 2x500=1000 (less than the mhz speed of pcs at that time).

Then apple marketing worked hard to get us believe: "two brains are better than one".

Well, we all know that's not true.

Neither i was it before nor it's going to be this time.

And remember that when moto past the 500mhz Duals disappear from the line? (except for special build to order).





Two processors cost twice than one (obviously), need twice the space, twice the electricity and create a lot of heat, which means more dissipators, fans and noise. If that's the way apple have to compete with wintels they should release a dual titanium, wich is not going to happen.



Hope all this makes way for a strong decision, whatever that be. Since 1984 Apple computers have never been so behind. And it's getting worse everyday.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 75
    Wouldn't say so ...



    In fact the dual cpu layout is IMHO the better solution, if you take in account the overhead modern operating systems put on your hardware, at least you have one cpu available for your real task.



    I call it the sensible approach to parallelism.

    we've should have sticked to this much earlier ...



    I prefer 4-8 cpu's much more than one fast cpu.

    Especially if it's not that multiscalar, as I#d like it to be.



    Cheers



    --> Yeah, Apple is doomed since 1984 :-)
  • Reply 2 of 75
    jindrichjindrich Posts: 120member
    am not saying dual computers are a waist but that having a dual as a base model means you cant build a faster one with just 1 cpu (as there are single and dual AMDs).



    i remember when duals first emerged apple was so annoyed because they were earning much less as a result of fitting 2 $400 cpus instead of one.





    apple hasnt been doomed since 1984. i've been using macs for more than a decade so i still remember when our computers were the f*****ng speed demons.
  • Reply 3 of 75
    aphelionaphelion Posts: 736member
    With the advance of OSX duals, quads, and even eight way designs are not only possible but preferable. Going duals across the current line up will cause serious developers to implement threaded applications to take advantage of this.



    Multiple processors are what make SGI and Sun outstanding performers in their "niche" markets. Pro users are clamoring for quad Macs, A recent poll at Architosh showed that quads are what are wanted by the pro users by a wide margin.



    Although cheered by the release today of duals across the board, I would have liked to see a quad at the "Ultimate" level, even at a $4K price point.



    With the obvious conclusion that the IBM PowerPC will be the fabled "G5" and will most likely be a dual core chip, this was probably the reason a quad G4 was not released at this time. If the PowerPC is not ready by MWSF I would hope that a quad will be the news out of that show.
  • Reply 3 of 75
    matsumatsu Posts: 6,558member
    Apple should make the move to all dual pro machines and STAY THERE, no matter what kind of chip they get in the future.



    That should be the distinction:



    Consumer machines = Singles



    Pro Machines = Duals



    They've got the right OS for it, the advantages are many (real and percieved)



    They've also got the right CPU's for it (PPC's are cheaper, smaller and much cooler)



    There's more than enough margin in even a $1600 dollar PM to make a quite profitable DP867 G4's only cost about 100 bucks @ 800Mhz.



    [ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
  • Reply 5 of 75
    That's right.



    Macs are no longer the speed demons they once were....



    However. They still are IMHO the most progressive and efficient system I used.

    But I like the parallel approach. Which will make life much easier as well as computing.



    It is not a big deal that the G4 can't clock as high as a P4. I just would like to get the bus system on par with the modern PC's ...or get the NumaCC.



    still I would never trade my G4 867 in for a P4 2.5GHz.



    What I wanted to state is, that IMO it is better to have more CPus working with you, than to have only one.



    Therefore I like the idea of being multiple ...



    No flame intended buddy, just a wierd attack of humour.



    Cheers,

    Martin
  • Reply 5 of 75
    xypexype Posts: 672member
    bah, to me the "going all dual" simply means there will be some real differentation between the pro and consumer machines. and as you can say dual means they can't go fast enough with one CPU, I say that dual means power at last and that is good.



    I really prefer a cheaper dual 867 to a uber-expensive single 1.6 (and you can bet your house that a 1.6 ghz G4 _is_ expensive like hell).



    I think it's a very good compromise - hey, at the low end you get a total of 1734 mhz of G4 goodness. if that's not enough then I don't know what is. And just for your information - the Athlon XP at 1733 mhz is rated 2100+.
  • Reply 7 of 75
    eugeneeugene Posts: 8,254member
    [quote]Originally posted by jindrich:

    <strong>am not saying dual computers are a waist but that having a dual as a base model means you cant build a faster one with just 1 cpu (as there are single and dual AMDs).



    i remember when duals first emerged apple was so annoyed because they were earning much less as a result of fitting 2 $400 cpus instead of one.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    What makes you think that? Apple let the dual processor cat out of the bag in 2000, dude. Where's the logic in thinking dual 867 is a desperate move. Faster chips do exist. Would you rather have a single 1000 Mhz or a dual 867? I'll take the dual please.
  • Reply 8 of 75
    dobbydobby Posts: 794member
    Duals are the hit!



    I was hoping to get a single 1.25GHz at the most but now I can get a dual 867 (read 1.7+GHz).



    Excellent.



    Dobby.
  • Reply 9 of 75
    there was only one cpu visable on the leaked pictures though



    [ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: dick tracey ]</p>
  • Reply 10 of 75
    g-newsg-news Posts: 1,107member
    those leaked pics were a prototype at best anyway.



    G-news
  • Reply 11 of 75
    jambojambo Posts: 3,036member
    Moving to Current Hardware...
  • Reply 12 of 75
    scadboyscadboy Posts: 189member
    Want to talk about "desperate?" Look at the wording for Apple's new "Dual Offer" (nee Crystal Clear Promotion).



    <a href="http://www.apple.com/promo/dualoffer/"; target="_blank">click</a>



    [quote]Buy any Power Mac G4 and as many qualifying Apple flat-panel displays as you need between August 13 and September 30, 2002, and get a picture-perfect deal. Save $200 on the...<hr></blockquote>



    Yes, just buy as many as you need at the discounted prices! How many do you need? I know I would love one of those new towers with a pair of HD 23" displays. The offer ends on September 30th, so I don't think we'll be seeing any new displays anytime soon.



    I like the speed holes on the new macs, very classy. And that actually is a headphone jack on the front, not just a programmer's button, go figure.



    ciao,



    michael
  • Reply 13 of 75
    cobracobra Posts: 253member
    When we had dual 500's, only OS 9 was available.



    Pretty much worthless back then.
  • Reply 14 of 75
    [quote]Originally posted by Cobra:

    <strong>When we had dual 500's, only OS 9 was available.



    Pretty much worthless back then.</strong><hr></blockquote>



    With Mac OS X this is a VERY different situation dude.

    The kernel in Mac OS X speads the load of processes across the CPU. In Mac OS 9 you needed special plug-ins in the applications to spread the load.



    Dual CPU support is at the lowest level in OS X rather than the other way around. Besides, Jag has been optimized for dual CPUs right from the start. I'm sure you will see a significant speed increase under Jag. Its already fast in my 600Mhz iBook, I can just imagine how it will be under a dual machine.
  • Reply 15 of 75
    pevepeve Posts: 518member
    i think it's a great move from apple to go dual.

    now we have a os that makes the most out of it.



    dual is the (near)future.
  • Reply 16 of 75
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,132member
    [quote]Originally posted by jindrich:

    <strong>..just like when moto was stuck at [email protected], and there was no other way but to put two cpus in the more expensive towers to make people think 2x500=1000 (less than the mhz speed of pcs at that time).

    Then apple marketing worked hard to get us believe: "two brains are better than one".

    Well, we all know that's not true.

    Neither i was it before nor it's going to be this time.

    And remember that when moto past the 500mhz Duals disappear from the line? (except for special build to order).





    Two processors cost twice than one (obviously), need twice the space, twice the electricity and create a lot of heat, which means more dissipators, fans and noise. If that's the way apple have to compete with wintels they should release a dual titanium, wich is not going to happen.



    Hope all this makes way for a strong decision, whatever that be. Since 1984 Apple computers have never been so behind. And it's getting worse everyday.</strong><hr></blockquote>





    FUD!



    Man give me dual procs!! I'm the kind of user that wants to be doing multiple things and multitasking. I don't wait for webpages to download I move on the the next thing. In this context Dual Procs help a user like me more than the monolithic CPU running at high speed. I honestly think the entry level unit kicks arse. Say what you want about the bus speed but if it uses DDR at least you can take that ddr and put it in a faster machine someday hopefully. Kudos to Apple.



    I was thinking last night that the G4 may have longer life than we are thinking. I think you'll see it become the "Pentium4 to the IBM procs Xeon" if you catch my drift. Apple needs a much more reliable way to differentiate their pro machines and a G4/G5 strategy could help them increase their profits. You heard it here first.
  • Reply 17 of 75
    sc_marktsc_markt Posts: 1,393member
    Could be a desperate move. But, it could also be Apple's way of easing the jump from lower performance dual G4's to the much higher performance G5's. This way, the delta in cpu power from old to new machines won't be so drastic.



    [ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: sc_markt ]</p>
  • Reply 18 of 75
    i'm sorry but i just can't get convinced by all this arguments.



    Had Apple had a G5 running at 2ghz have'd we seen dual towers? i doubt so. Anyhow, that dual thing is not going to fit inside a titanium. Apple laptops used to be the fastest notebooks ever. they no longer are.



    apple (moto) has a cpu problem. i dont mind if it's mhz or bitwide related, it's a problem anyway. this is a fact.



    the duals are just another smoke curtain, for the second time.





    Why dont we have duals/quads G5 instead of the same old 2-3 year old tecnology?

    Why didnt Apple announce the new towers at the expo? because everybody expected more (new generation mobo and cpu).



    [ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: jindrich ]</p>
  • Reply 19 of 75
    murbotmurbot Posts: 5,261member
    They can't win. We have been crying for ages "they should have duals across the board!!", and when they do it... people flock here to cry about it.



    Just think for a second. The bottom end PowerMac has dual freakin' processors!! I think that machine is a fantastic deal.



    Matsu's right - I hope they keep duals in the PowerMacs no matter what. That's a nice waty to differentiate between pro and consumer machines.
  • Reply 20 of 75
    [quote] Want to talk about "desperate?" Look at the wording for Apple's new "Dual Offer" (nee Crystal Clear Promotion).

    Buy any Power Mac G4 and as many qualifying Apple flat-panel displays as you need between August 13 and September 30, 2002, and get a picture-perfect deal. Save $200 on the... <hr></blockquote>



    ok, my birthday is september 14th. you're on time to buy me some of this (i'll send you my icebook to thank you )



    [ 08-13-2002: Message edited by: jindrich ]</p>
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