"PowerScreens" leading to "iMonitors" & Headless iMac?

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Comments

  • Reply 21 of 36
    davegeedavegee Posts: 2,765member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Amorph

    Finally there'll be enough bandwidth to get rid of a lot of wires, and a lot of mutually incompatible and variously lossy plugs and jacks.



    A moment of silence for Monster Cables Inc. and the thousands of Radio Shack "Blister Pack Filled Cable Walls".
  • Reply 22 of 36
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    The tablet idea has taken quite a beating in a few other threads but here are a few points:



    Pen input + large screen = horrible computing experience



    Pen input only works on small screens. Your arm will not appreciate being dragged all over a 17" or 20" screen. It is a ergonomic problem of having to move the pen to all parts of the screen as it can't be accelerated like a mouse can.



    Pen input sucks unless you are cradling the device in your arm or have it in your lap. Both of these points now sort of force you to use a small screen.



    In order for it to be something you would actually feel like toting around the house it would have to be a rather smallish screen (15" tops) and it needs to be light. Then when it's docked you have a rather mediocre sized screen for what would be a rather expensive desktop computer.



    Other have said it already and I agree. The iMac *needs* power and value and not random gadgetyness. This "tablety" idea will not attract people and will cause a lot of expense and headaches.
  • Reply 23 of 36
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Bancho

    The tablet idea has taken quite a beating in a few other threads but here are a few points:



    Pen input + large screen = horrible computing experience



    Pen input only works on small screens. Your arm will not appreciate being dragged all over a 17" or 20" screen. It is a ergonomic problem of having to move the pen to all parts of the screen as it can't be accelerated like a mouse can.



    Pen input sucks unless you are cradling the device in your arm or have it in your lap. Both of these points now sort of force you to use a small screen.



    In order for it to be something you would actually feel like toting around the house it would have to be a rather smallish screen (15" tops) and it needs to be light. Then when it's docked you have a rather mediocre sized screen for what would be a rather expensive desktop computer.



    Other have said it already and I agree. The iMac *needs* power and value and not random gadgetyness. This "tablety" idea will not attract people and will cause a lot of expense and headaches.






    I completely agree...but, why do the two have to be mutually exclusive? In other words, couldn't Apple release a wireless-based tablet that is basically nothing but another desktop for your existing machine? So, I've got a nice new iMac G5 sitting on my desk, it has a nice 17" LCD, wired keyboard and mouse, etc. But I watch to go work in the living room while I'm watching some TV. So I pick up my 12" diagonal tablet with pen-based input and go sit on the couch. I have desktop access to all my files, programs, etc, and as much functionality as a pen-based input will allow. (which should be quite a lot if well engineered)



    oh yeah, about your comment that pens suck for big screens, it took me all of 1/2 a second to think of a great way to deal with that... you have a modifier key that let's use treat the pen as a trackpad in that the cursor isn't directly under the pen, but rather it moves with the movements of the pen. so you have the pen in your right hand, in the bottom right corner. normally the cursor would also be in the bottom right, directly under the tip of the pen. but you hold down ctrl (or whatever you define, ctrl might not work too well) and as you move the pen up and to the left (only an inch or so) the cursor moves up and to the left two inches, and remains there. you pick up the pen, and return it to the bottom right corner, but the cursor is still where you left it. get it? and the beauty of the system would be that as soon as you release the modifier key, the cursor snaps back to the pen location! obviously, the details of what modifier keys, how much acceleration, etc. should be user defined to get the most out of it.
  • Reply 24 of 36
    banchobancho Posts: 1,517member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by concentricity

    I completely agree...but, why do the two have to be mutually exclusive? In other words, couldn't Apple release a wireless-based tablet that is basically nothing but another desktop for your existing machine? So, I've got a nice new iMac G5 sitting on my desk, it has a nice 17" LCD, wired keyboard and mouse, etc. But I watch to go work in the living room while I'm watching some TV. So I pick up my 12" diagonal tablet with pen-based input and go sit on the couch. I have desktop access to all my files, programs, etc, and as much functionality as a pen-based input will allow. (which should be quite a lot if well engineered)



    oh yeah, about your comment that pens suck for big screens, it took me all of 1/2 a second to think of a great way to deal with that... you have a modifier key that let's use treat the pen as a trackpad in that the cursor isn't directly under the pen, but rather it moves with the movements of the pen. so you have the pen in your right hand, in the bottom right corner. normally the cursor would also be in the bottom right, directly under the tip of the pen. but you hold down ctrl (or whatever you define, ctrl might not work too well) and as you move the pen up and to the left (only an inch or so) the cursor moves up and to the left two inches, and remains there. you pick up the pen, and return it to the bottom right corner, but the cursor is still where you left it. get it? and the beauty of the system would be that as soon as you release the modifier key, the cursor snaps back to the pen location! obviously, the details of what modifier keys, how much acceleration, etc. should be user defined to get the most out of it.




    An iBook with a remote desktop app would be a simpler solution (and almost definitely cheaper).



    Pen input does not really excel the way you think it would. It gets tedious fast. The only way for a tablet style device to work is if it's cheap and marketed as an accesory to your existing computer. I do not think the cost of components will ever reach a point where it could compete with just getting a small laptop to complement the existing machine. The small laptop is also a fully functioning autonomous machine which scores points in its favor.



    I don't want to dredge all the arguments from the other thread so I'll stop here.
  • Reply 25 of 36
    rickagrickag Posts: 1,626member
    It's kind of funny that the lack of an updated 17" monitor can be used to prove both

    ..... the new iMacs will be monitorless.

    ..... the new iMacs must be AIO.



    monitorless

    Since Apple has stated they planned on introducing the new iMacs already and they have been delayed, they couldn't introduce new smaller monitors for consumers because something in the design might tip their hand on the new monitorless design(re: ad pictures revealed the adapter plate and new arm for attaching to the new iMac or whatever). They would have plastic housing like the current iMac and would look out of place alongside the aluminum wonders.



    AIO

    The new iMacs are AIO and Apple decided there was no need to offer a new improved 17" monitor. By using aluminum cost was prohibative and pros need the size anyway.



    footnote: I fully expect the new iMacs to be AIO, unfortunately. Steve Jobs seems really hung up on the appliance theory of computers.
  • Reply 26 of 36
    Quote:

    Originally posted by rickag

    footnote: I fully expect the new iMacs to be AIO, unfortunately. Steve Jobs seems really hung up on the appliance theory of computers.



    He always was, even from the beginning. He wanted a computer as ubiquitous as a toaster.
  • Reply 27 of 36
    iMAC's have been an all-in-one pc. I don't think they are going to change it. Your idea works, just not based on the iMAC idea.
  • Reply 28 of 36
    stecsstecs Posts: 43member
    A tablet is an alternative input device, not an alternative output device.



    This means you need a tablet and a monitor...
  • Reply 29 of 36
    lemon bon bonlemon bon bon Posts: 2,383member
    I think I saw a brilliant adept post by 'insider's very own PSCATES ('2.0' as he's known on some other boards...)



    He said that if Apple make a headless. It can be called 'The Mac'.



    If fills the space betweent he eMac and low end tower.



    It offers power, price, some expandability and graphics slot.



    He then said that the eMac can be dumped and rebranded the iMac. Ergo: the iMac returns to its value, power and price mandate.



    I think he was spot on.



    Apple are using the wrong semantics.



    It doesn't really matter if Apple loses some tower sales to a properly implemented 'Cube' 'The Mac' headless concept.



    They'll pick up more than they lose this way.



    The eMac is the ugly step child of Apple's line right now.



    I can't believe that's the best Apple and Ives can do.



    The best value Mac though...?



    (Not if you count the brilliant entry level iBook it's not...)



    Apple need to brush up their semantics and offer more flexibility in the middle of their grid (remember that?) desktop equation...



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 30 of 36
    lemon bon bonlemon bon bon Posts: 2,383member
    PowerScreens and iMonitors.



    Nice concept.



    I was struck, suddenly, by an amazing idea.



    IF the iMac 3G is all in the monitor. You have a monitor!



    (Yes, no, stay with me...)



    You have the perfect switcher machine?



    ((Sorry, we're still not with you Lemon...))



    Well, think. \



    Every PC tower owner could buy a stunning LCD monitor for their PC.



    (Erm, yes...and...?)



    They plug their PC into their 'Mac' monitor...



    ((Light dawns...))



    And they've got a monitor!!!



    ((?))



    Yes. But it's also a Mac!!! They can run both a Mac and a PC off the same amount of space.



    *((What??!))



    Yep. No extra tower. No extra monitor. No extra cables.



    You've got...



    (AHA! Two computers in the space of one!!!)



    You've got it! Whewhoo! PC owners can try the Mac experience or just run it as a straight 'sexy alu' monitor!!!



    Enterprise just plonks one of these 15 or 17 or 20 inch wonders on their desks.



    Zero clutter! Zero extra cables. Zero fuss.



    You've got a Mac, or a monitor. In case of emergency, eg the latest rentakill virus takes down hole system...the Mac can PROVE its reliability in the business space! It can email, it can print, it can scan...it can database...it can do all the things the PC can't do because it's down with a virus!!!



    The Mac waits...like a real Trojan Horse...ready and waiting to storm Troy!



    If Apple can get these prices REALLY low...ie eMac territory and upwards...



    (You've got a shockwave chain reaction on the go! Thanks 'Bon Bon...you're brill'....)



    Don't mention it Johnny...



    Lemon Bon Bon
  • Reply 31 of 36
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Lemon Bon Bon

    PowerScreens and iMonitors.



    Nice concept.



    I was struck, suddenly, by an amazing idea.



    IF the iMac 3G is all in the monitor. You have a monitor!



    (Yes, no, stay with me...)



    You have the perfect switcher machine?



    ((Sorry, we're still not with you Lemon...))



    Well, think. \



    Every PC tower owner could buy a stunning LCD monitor for their PC.



    (Erm, yes...and...?)



    They plug their PC into their 'Mac' monitor...



    ((Light dawns...))



    And they've got a monitor!!!



    ((?))



    Yes. But it's also a Mac!!! They can run both a Mac and a PC off the same amount of space.



    *((What??!))



    Yep. No extra tower. No extra monitor. No extra cables.



    You've got...



    (AHA! Two computers in the space of one!!!)



    You've got it! Whewhoo! PC owners can try the Mac experience or just run it as a straight 'sexy alu' monitor!!!



    Enterprise just plonks one of these 15 or 17 or 20 inch wonders on their desks.



    Zero clutter! Zero extra cables. Zero fuss.



    You've got a Mac, or a monitor. In case of emergency, eg the latest rentakill virus takes down hole system...the Mac can PROVE its reliability in the business space! It can email, it can print, it can scan...it can database...it can do all the things the PC can't do because it's down with a virus!!!



    The Mac waits...like a real Trojan Horse...ready and waiting to storm Troy!



    If Apple can get these prices REALLY low...ie eMac territory and upwards...



    (You've got a shockwave chain reaction on the go! Thanks 'Bon Bon...you're brill'....)



    Don't mention it Johnny...



    Lemon Bon Bon




    You have excercised some really good thinking here. Well done!



    The overall question in this equation: Price !



    ???
  • Reply 32 of 36
    the headless wireless imac

  • Reply 33 of 36
    Wow LBB, that is an incredibly cool idea...seriously, that could work if price werent the only drawback.
  • Reply 34 of 36
    mmmpiemmmpie Posts: 628member
    Ive been thinking on the role of the Mac/Monitor for some time.



    In particular it encourages the idea of progressive upgrades. You can buy an AIO now, and in a year you can buy a tower/cube and plug it into your AIO.



    To achieve this what the AIO needs is a DVI connector. It would be a real shame to have DVI in, and not out, so the DVI connector needs to fulfill both duties. It has to auto detect what is plugged into and assume the correct role. I would not make the AIO accesible except by remote desktop ( or plugging in a mouse/keyboard ).



    The problem with this idea is the feasibility of auto detectin whether a monitor or computer is plugged into the DVI port. Perhaps it is analog out, digital in. PCs have a new tech in their sound cards called the versa jack. The versa jack examines the impedance of the attached device and tries to guess what it is. So you can just plug your microphone and speakers into any sound jacks, and they auto configure.





    Whether or not Apple implement this for the iMac, I will be implementing it for my eMac when I get a replacement desktop.
  • Reply 35 of 36
    here it is without the dock
  • Reply 36 of 36
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Chromeus

    the headless wireless imac





    What ever Apple does, I remember Steve Jobs HIGHLIGHTING how the FP iMac didn't have all the CD-Rom and Harddrive plastered on the back, because they learned from the Cube that this meant it all had to spinn slower?



    What would be really cool I think is if everything except the monitor was in the "Dock" - wireless display.



    We'll have 10 times as fast wireless in 2007 I think it was (can't remember the URL) - maybe Apple is on the forefront once again and have put it in the new iMac....? Probably not, but here's to dreaming
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