And by the way. Courts in scandinavia, especially in lower courts, have very little freedom on their decisions. Their rulings are bound by the law and not as influenced by subjective interpretation and english common law as I sense US courts are. Judges are public servants, not elected by the people. So if any blame should be put on anyone it should be the voters who elected politicians that make the laws.
I guess if you don't like their laws you could always move to Sweden, take Swedish citizenship, run for public office and campaign for another constitutional amendment so bigots could hide behind God when they wanted to go fag bashing.
Or the US could just bomb the crap out of them and install an interim government. That usually works out pretty well.
Maybe we need a new term for certain kinds of hate speech. It is important that people be allowed to speak freely, even if their speech is hate-filled. But there is an difference when the speech is intended to make those who listen to and agree with it feel like they should take action against the people being spoken about.
Im not an expert on the United States code, but free speech does get a little complicated when dealing with members of the military and the President (the Commander in Chief of our military).
These two are federal employees and its not specified which "reserve" they belong too but quite possibly a military reserve. Also if military members were present during the rally, they could be in violation of Section 2387 and Section 2388.
During the Clinton scandal, a Marine Corps Colonel was relieved because of his comments (published in a newspaper) about Clinton.
These laws do not only apply to military members but to my knowledge it is not common for the government to enforce them against non military.
Freedom of Speech? Freedom of assembly? Under Bush, forget it.
Totalitarianism R US
Yes and it was terrible how right after he was dismissed he was tossed in jail for two years where he underwent psychological conditioning to love all things Bush.
Where did I say anything about Sweden not being part of Europe?
Nick
Her point was less about geographical location than about the social norms of the continent's society-- which the Swedish case you cited evidently proves otherwise (to an extent). Gia, you lost me on this one.
Shawn, what I meant is .. in Europe all discrimination is allowed. No matter whether you are in Ireland, Italy, Sweden ..
I happen to be where ever I am, or wrong sex, skin color, wrong nationality, even wrong religion etc. What can I say? Except I'm getting home sick. But that's off topic.
Sweden is in many senses a very advanced society - thus I could consider it being more free of the old continents bad habits. Like all the discriminations. But it is not ..
Yes and it was terrible how right after he was dismissed he was tossed in jail for two years where he underwent psychological conditioning to love all things Bush.
Nick
Trumptman...before making a total idiot of yourself, real the article. the parks police chief is a WOMAN
Freedom of Speech? Freedom of assembly? Under Bush, forget it.
Totalitarianism R US
That is a disturbing article
That really needs to be known and seen . . . especially after seeing the segment in F-911 about the huge force of Federal agents assigned to protecting the entire state of Oregon . . . . less than one hand's worth!!!
Trumptman, you should really look at that article and let go of your knees for a second.
from the article:
Quote:
"The American people should be afraid of this kind of silencing of professionals in any field," she said. "We should be very concerned as American citizens that people who are experts in their field either can't speak up, or, as we're seeing now in the parks service, won't speak up."
That really needs to be known and seen . . . especially after seeing the segment in F-911 about the huge force of Federal agents assigned to protecting the entire state of Oregon . . . . less than one hand's worth!!!
Trumptman, you should really look at that article and let go of your knees for a second.
from the article:
For those familier with the civil service, its not as disturbing. In my previous work in local government the management made it clear that all press relations were to be routed through the City Manager's office and there would be no politicing of Council members around the management chain of command.
After checking with union I found out this was enforceable. Employees may politic 'on matters of public concern' without management approval unless it is on behalf of themselves, their jobs, or their areas of responsibility.
I do think its a heavyhanded for some supervisor to suspend and fire her if it was inadvertent and not willful disregard of the rules...obviously a verbal warning or written admonishment would have been more appropriate.
But this kind of crap goes on in government all the time - lots of them have broomsticks up their arses.
For those familier with the civil service, its not as disturbing. In my previous work in local government the management made it clear that all press relations were to be routed through the City Manager's office and there would be no politicing of Council members around the management chain of command.
After checking with union I found out this was enforceable. Employees may politic 'on matters of public concern' without management approval unless it is on behalf of themselves, their jobs, or their areas of responsibility.
I do think its a heavyhanded for some supervisor to suspend and fire her if it was inadvertent and not willful disregard of the rules...obviously a verbal warning or written admonishment would have been more appropriate.
But this kind of crap goes on in government all the time - lots of them have broomsticks up their arses.
But in this case it isn't just heavy handed it is also about a national security failure that is, and has been repeatedly ignored.
Trumptman...before making a total idiot of yourself, real the article. the parks police chief is a WOMAN
Only you would entirely miss the point. Free speech is not free of consequences from all of regular life. If I say I boss is a stupid idiot, she or he might fire me. However I am not tossed in jail for my thoughts. You ignore the fact that the people supposedly repressed in these articles are not in fact going to jail for what they have said, regardless of gender.
Comments
Originally posted by kneelbeforezod
I guess if you don't like their laws you could always move to Sweden, take Swedish citizenship, run for public office and campaign for another constitutional amendment so bigots could hide behind God when they wanted to go fag bashing.
Or the US could just bomb the crap out of them and install an interim government. That usually works out pretty well.
Originally posted by Scott
Ummmm? They weren't arrested for wearing T-shirts? But you'd have to be a person not blinded by anti-Bush hatred to see that.
Perhaps, but at least I don't fuck children.
It's a thin line though...
Im not an expert on the United States code, but free speech does get a little complicated when dealing with members of the military and the President (the Commander in Chief of our military).
Heres a link to Part of Title 18 of the US Code.
United States Code, Title 18, Chapter 115
These two are federal employees and its not specified which "reserve" they belong too but quite possibly a military reserve. Also if military members were present during the rally, they could be in violation of Section 2387 and Section 2388.
During the Clinton scandal, a Marine Corps Colonel was relieved because of his comments (published in a newspaper) about Clinton.
These laws do not only apply to military members but to my knowledge it is not common for the government to enforce them against non military.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/07/10/par...ief/index.html
Freedom of Speech? Freedom of assembly? Under Bush, forget it.
Totalitarianism R US
Originally posted by sammi jo
This is getting unreal....even senior police personnel are getting fired for disagreeing with the Bush Administration. See headline on CNN here:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/07/10/par...ief/index.html
Freedom of Speech? Freedom of assembly? Under Bush, forget it.
Totalitarianism R US
Yes and it was terrible how right after he was dismissed he was tossed in jail for two years where he underwent psychological conditioning to love all things Bush.
Nick
In Europe it is all right to discriminate people in base of their nationalities, sex, sexual orientation, skin color, religion etc etc.
I'm sick of Europe...
Originally posted by Giaguara
trumptman, i'm sorry but Sweden is in Europe.
In Europe it is all right to discriminate people in base of their nationalities, sex, sexual orientation, skin color, religion etc etc.
I'm sick of Europe...
Where did I say anything about Sweden not being part of Europe?
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
Where did I say anything about Sweden not being part of Europe?
Nick
Her point was less about geographical location than about the social norms of the continent's society-- which the Swedish case you cited evidently proves otherwise (to an extent).
I happen to be where ever I am, or wrong sex, skin color, wrong nationality, even wrong religion etc. What can I say? Except I'm getting home sick. But that's off topic.
Sweden is in many senses a very advanced society - thus I could consider it being more free of the old continents bad habits. Like all the discriminations. But it is not ..
Originally posted by trumptman
Yes and it was terrible how right after he was dismissed he was tossed in jail for two years where he underwent psychological conditioning to love all things Bush.
Nick
Trumptman...before making a total idiot of yourself, real the article. the parks police chief is a WOMAN
Originally posted by sammi jo
This is getting unreal....even senior police personnel are getting fired for disagreeing with the Bush Administration. See headline on CNN here:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/07/10/par...ief/index.html
Freedom of Speech? Freedom of assembly? Under Bush, forget it.
Totalitarianism R US
That is a disturbing article
That really needs to be known and seen . . . especially after seeing the segment in F-911 about the huge force of Federal agents assigned to protecting the entire state of Oregon . . . . less than one hand's worth!!!
Trumptman, you should really look at that article and let go of your knees for a second.
from the article:
"The American people should be afraid of this kind of silencing of professionals in any field," she said. "We should be very concerned as American citizens that people who are experts in their field either can't speak up, or, as we're seeing now in the parks service, won't speak up."
Originally posted by pfflam
That is a disturbing article
That really needs to be known and seen . . . especially after seeing the segment in F-911 about the huge force of Federal agents assigned to protecting the entire state of Oregon . . . . less than one hand's worth!!!
Trumptman, you should really look at that article and let go of your knees for a second.
from the article:
For those familier with the civil service, its not as disturbing. In my previous work in local government the management made it clear that all press relations were to be routed through the City Manager's office and there would be no politicing of Council members around the management chain of command.
After checking with union I found out this was enforceable. Employees may politic 'on matters of public concern' without management approval unless it is on behalf of themselves, their jobs, or their areas of responsibility.
I do think its a heavyhanded for some supervisor to suspend and fire her if it was inadvertent and not willful disregard of the rules...obviously a verbal warning or written admonishment would have been more appropriate.
But this kind of crap goes on in government all the time - lots of them have broomsticks up their arses.
Originally posted by MaxParrish
For those familier with the civil service, its not as disturbing. In my previous work in local government the management made it clear that all press relations were to be routed through the City Manager's office and there would be no politicing of Council members around the management chain of command.
After checking with union I found out this was enforceable. Employees may politic 'on matters of public concern' without management approval unless it is on behalf of themselves, their jobs, or their areas of responsibility.
I do think its a heavyhanded for some supervisor to suspend and fire her if it was inadvertent and not willful disregard of the rules...obviously a verbal warning or written admonishment would have been more appropriate.
But this kind of crap goes on in government all the time - lots of them have broomsticks up their arses.
But in this case it isn't just heavy handed it is also about a national security failure that is, and has been repeatedly ignored.
Originally posted by sammi jo
Trumptman...before making a total idiot of yourself, real the article. the parks police chief is a WOMAN
Only you would entirely miss the point. Free speech is not free of consequences from all of regular life. If I say I boss is a stupid idiot, she or he might fire me. However I am not tossed in jail for my thoughts. You ignore the fact that the people supposedly repressed in these articles are not in fact going to jail for what they have said, regardless of gender.
Wise up and realize the difference.
Nick