Steve is getting closer to Sony, but the iMac needs...

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
This certainly is not a whining thread about Apple mistakes, but I think with HP entering the home entertain/computing market, then the consumer focused iMac needs to go abit farther than this iteration.



To design the iMac around the iPod is genius and the design is growing on me faster than the iMac2 did (though now I'm almost nostalgic for lcd on the armature). I finally got to see a new aluminum display and I really was impressed with the size and manueverablility/stability of the thing so this iMac physically should be a keeper, even if does use an already defined form.



My concern is that with HP trying to become the next Sony and Sony slowly evolving its own ecosystem, Apple needs to do a few things.



First this new iMac which they encourage you to move from room to room, needs to have a TV tuner. They are cheap and that is what people still want to have in the living room, dorm room and (lord) the kitchen. I would hate to see HP's new consumer ventures seem more creative than Apple's.



All of the switchers need to see this iMac as the "iPod for the rest of their lives" and THAT should be the real marketing push. That means it needs to be simpler at integration with other devices in the home. It should be sold with a "digital home" bundle with Airport Express and an iPod mini.



The price and performance should be absolutely spot on for consumers!! I think they got that right, though a $1k version would make it a slam-dunk, but hey maybe the iPod marketing will naturally evolve to the iMac Mini, in 5 colors! Smaller hardrive, cheaper cpu and graphics for those who want a cheap one for the kitchen to check emails and streaming music.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 29
    jcgjcg Posts: 777member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacGregor

    ...First this new iMac which they encourage you to move from room to room, needs to have a TV tuner. They are cheap and that is what people still want to have in the living room, dorm room and (lord) the kitchen...



    I think that a lot of people would agree with you, though Steve might not. The question is which TV tuner do you put in the thing, traditional broadcast/Cable (non-digital), HDTV Broadcast, digital Cable, or Digtial Satelite?
  • Reply 2 of 29
    I hate to be the one to break it to ya, but TV and computers don't mix...







    ..or so says the anti-technologists here at AppleInsider.



    http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...&highlight=DVD



    I for one would embrace TV tuners in computers. My vision of the future is cheap iMac 3-like computers that can be hung on walls of every room in the house and merge things like TV, phone, whatever.



    You'd be able to watch TV anywhere in the house, or play music anywhere in the house, or video conference from anywhere in the house (well, assuming you buy iSights or other video cameras for each computer.
  • Reply 3 of 29
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JCG

    I think that a lot of people would agree with you, though Steve might not. The question is which TV tuner do you put in the thing, traditional broadcast/Cable (non-digital), HDTV Broadcast, digital Cable, or Digtial Satelite?



    not a problem. put a coaxal jack for analog cable and over the air antennas....and put component jacks for HD.
  • Reply 4 of 29
    jcgjcg Posts: 777member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by applenut

    not a problem. put a coaxal jack for analog cable and over the air antennas....and put component jacks for HD.



    It may be different today, but as I recall there is a difference in the signal and circuitry between all of these major formats. At one time the bandwidth was a problem with Cable providers, they did not want to support full bandwidth HDTV, and since they are not covered under broadcast regulations they were not compelled to by the same regulations covering broadcast stations. You will note that most cable companies call their service digital and not HDTV. I also believe there is a difference between Cable and Satellite tuners. Of course the traditional analog Cable and OTA tuners are different than all the others....so again the questions comes to mind, which ones will you put in the system. Given that HDTV tuners are still well over $100 and who knows how much digital cable tuners are I think that it would cost prohibitive to include all the tuners yet to maintain computer control over the signal (for choosing channels) you need to have the tuner linked in some way to the computer and not just video in, so which to use?
  • Reply 5 of 29
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,354member
    Apple should be at CES every year from now on. That's Consumer Electronics Show for those unaware. Products like the iPod and its accessories, Airport Express and new products should be hyped at this show.



    I still think Tivo is a good buy. Great name recognition. Easy entry into the STB/HD market and a great product to build in more services. Not to mention 1.6 million subscribers and growing. Imagine the buzz that Apple would get from this aquisition. Apple's component buying power and suppliers could massage this device into the "must have" uber box of this decade.



    HP does ok. Gateway does ok but their companies are not platform vendors. They must move at the pace the MS does. Apple can marry the SW and HW together is very appealing ways that consumers are rapidly becoming keen on. No the TV is not converging with the computer. It's the proliferation of the "Home Network" that is going to tie these components together. HDTV resolution is more akin to computer monitors. Small DSP chips are being announced every week that will crunch the necessary data to handle todays media types.



    Apple doesn't need to create DVD or CD players or amplifiers. They will do well to make sure these technologies can be saved in digital form and viewed where necessary. We don't need a digital "hub" we need digital "hubs". I should be able to finish editing the family vacation trip in Final Cut Express or iMovie and instantly send the completed video to the Tivo STB for playback when we want. Ditto for photos or music.



    We have the money Apple. We want power and accessability and usability. No one is providing this to us...first that does makes a killing.
  • Reply 6 of 29
    murkmurk Posts: 935member
    The different types of tuners are the problem. If it doesn't tune all the channels on my digital cable, why would I want it? That's the problem with all the third party products out there now. I'm thinking it would be better to have a separate Tivo-like device that works with the Mac. I know this would be more expensive, but it also would be more powerful.
  • Reply 7 of 29
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacGregor

    This certainly is not a whining thread about Apple mistakes, but I think with HP entering the home entertain/computing market, then the consumer focused iMac needs to go abit farther than this iteration.



    To design the iMac around the iPod is genius and the design is growing on me faster than the iMac2 did (though now I'm almost nostalgic for lcd on the armature). I finally got to see a new aluminum display and I really was impressed with the size and manueverablility/stability of the thing so this iMac physically should be a keeper, even if does use an already defined form.



    My concern is that with HP trying to become the next Sony and Sony slowly evolving its own ecosystem, Apple needs to do a few things.



    First this new iMac which they encourage you to move from room to room, needs to have a TV tuner. They are cheap and that is what people still want to have in the living room, dorm room and (lord) the kitchen. I would hate to see HP's new consumer ventures seem more creative than Apple's.



    All of the switchers need to see this iMac as the "iPod for the rest of their lives" and THAT should be the real marketing push. That means it needs to be simpler at integration with other devices in the home. It should be sold with a "digital home" bundle with Airport Express and an iPod mini.



    The price and performance should be absolutely spot on for consumers!! I think they got that right, though a $1k version would make it a slam-dunk, but hey maybe the iPod marketing will naturally evolve to the iMac Mini, in 5 colors! Smaller hardrive, cheaper cpu and graphics for those who want a cheap one for the kitchen to check emails and streaming music.




    Have you ever put your hands on a Sony computer? Take it from me, the owner of three Sony TV sets, Sony consumer electronics are way overrated. They are physically solid and sexy as h3ll. Sony has mastered its visceral appeal to American technology geeks who are willing to premium prices for its products. However, other Japanese brands are much more reliable. As overrated as I find Sony consumer electronics, its computers do not even reach that level. They look great but when you touch them, Sony computers turn out to be flimsy Wintel crap. By comparison, Macs are rock-solid.
  • Reply 8 of 29
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JCG

    It may be different today, but as I recall there is a difference in the signal and circuitry between all of these major formats. At one time the bandwidth was a problem with Cable providers, they did not want to support full bandwidth HDTV, and since they are not covered under broadcast regulations they were not compelled to by the same regulations covering broadcast stations. You will note that most cable companies call their service digital and not HDTV. I also believe there is a difference between Cable and Satellite tuners. Of course the traditional analog Cable and OTA tuners are different than all the others....so again the questions comes to mind, which ones will you put in the system. Given that HDTV tuners are still well over $100 and who knows how much digital cable tuners are I think that it would cost prohibitive to include all the tuners yet to maintain computer control over the signal (for choosing channels) you need to have the tuner linked in some way to the computer and not just video in, so which to use?



    hence the component input. let the user use an external tuner.
  • Reply 9 of 29
    "First this new iMac which they encourage you to move from room to room, needs to have a TV tuner. They are cheap and that is what people still want to have in the living room, dorm room and (lord) the kitchen. I would hate to see HP's new consumer ventures seem more creative than Apple's."





    Since when is hacking a TV tuner into a computer creative?
  • Reply 10 of 29
    Quote:

    Originally posted by applenut

    hence the component input. let the user use an external tuner.



    How about Firewire for HDTV?
  • Reply 11 of 29
    applenutapplenut Posts: 5,768member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by TWinbrook46636

    How about Firewire for HDTV?



    apple doesn't support that as far as i know, and i dont think many tuners are coming equipped with it either. component just offers more flexibility







    apple shipped tv tuners in their consumer macs in the mid 90s. if it was creative then it would be a nice feature now.
  • Reply 12 of 29
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by kim kap sol

    I hate to be the one to break it to ya, but TV and computers don't mix...



    Tell that to my PC friends in small apartments and dorm rooms....tell that to the folks buying home theater projectors (HD and DVD) ... tell that to the iMovie folks making iDVD's for their summer vacations .... tell that to those watching music videos and movie trailers on Apples own iTMS site!!!



    Why the heck is QT (and MacOS for that matter) becoming so scaleable if it can't run all media on everthing from cellphones to 30" displays?!?! TV's are just going to be another resolution of display.



    Content is probably what Jobs keeps refering to ... yeah maybe he doesn't want to watch Survivor on the same screen he used Photoshop, but why not make it possible (and a default setting) for the rest of us?!?! The tuner cards can be just as interchangeable as Airport cards for any format you want. How hard is that?
  • Reply 13 of 29
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    Apple should be at CES every year from now on.



    I still think Tivo is a good buy. Great name recognition. Easy entry into the STB/HD market and a great product to build in more services.



    No the TV is not converging with the computer. It's the proliferation of the "Home Network" that is going to tie these components together. HDTV resolution is more akin to computer monitors.



    Apple doesn't need to create DVD or CD players or amplifiers. They will do well to make sure these technologies can be saved in digital form and viewed where necessary. We don't need a digital "hub" we need digital "hubs". I should be able to finish editing the family vacation trip in Final Cut Express or iMovie and instantly send the completed video to the Tivo STB for playback when we want. Ditto for photos or music.



    We have the money Apple. We want power and accessability and usability. No one is providing this to us...first that does makes a killing.




    Yes, that is part of it. With 20" monitors becoming the norm, lots of folks will watch TV on them. More people will use the standard TV monitor, than would use the standard bluetooth or even airport.
  • Reply 14 of 29
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by CheapFrag



    Since when is hacking a TV tuner into a computer creative?




    Since when is making a small hardrive into a digital music player creative? It is all in the packaging and user experience!!



    My folks have 200 channels to choose from and I sit there and either watch them ignore 197 of them, or they spend 15 minutes trying to find where one show is.



    So design "iTV" with SmartChannels based on content and ratings. Smart searches allow you to instantly find every John Wayne movie in the next month and gives you a list with times, duration, channels and one-click ability to record. And for those worried about digital rights, just have port in the back that controls a VCR or DVD burner. Yeah maybe it is a little overkill, but it integrates the computer into the visual media hub, not just digital hub.



    In 10 years everything will be digital and no one will know why the digital hub is even called "digital." It will be just "the hub."



    My reference to HP has to do with the fact that HP has such a great channel into the retail stores that they can set up home theaters in every shopping mall in the country, once they package things well. That is creative marketing if not creative computing.
  • Reply 15 of 29
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. Me

    Have you ever put your hands on a Sony computer? Take it from me, the owner of three Sony TV sets, Sony consumer electronics are way overrated. They are physically solid and sexy as h3ll. Sony has mastered its visceral appeal to American technology geeks who are willing to premium prices for its products. However, other Japanese brands are much more reliable. As overrated as I find Sony consumer electronics, its computers do not even reach that level. They look great but when you touch them, Sony computers turn out to be flimsy Wintel crap. By comparison, Macs are rock-solid.



    Sony is overrated with respect to particular boxes and devices. But Sony Vaio's are doing VERY well and even with the 3.4 billion different devices that they make, Sony gives you the "feeling" that everything integrates well. The memory sticks are a part of that which I thought were not very good, but they are gaining market share slowly, I believe, 'a la MS.



    Apple shouldn't replicate the Sony corporate model, but there is more to study than just the Walkman.
  • Reply 16 of 29
    mmmpiemmmpie Posts: 628member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacGregor

    Tell that to my PC friends in small apartments and dorm rooms....tell that to the folks buying home theater projectors (HD and DVD) ... tell that to the iMovie folks making iDVD's for their summer vacations .... tell that to those watching music videos and movie trailers on Apples own iTMS site!!!



    People in limited space environments are an exceptional market. Anyone living alone is a target for an integrated computer/tv. People using iMovie arent watching tv, they are engaged in the act of editing, quite a different experience. Watching a 5 minute trailer or 3 isnt watching tv either. You'll notice the Macs have pretty good support for watching dvds as well. That also isnt the tv experience.



    Quote:

    TV's are just going to be another resolution of display.



    absolutely, but you dont want to do much else on that device, play video games, watch sllide shows.



    Quote:



    Content is probably what Jobs keeps refering to ... yeah maybe he doesn't want to watch Survivor on the same screen he used Photoshop, but why not make it possible (and a default setting) for the rest of us?!?! The tuner cards can be just as interchangeable as Airport cards for any format you want. How hard is that?




    Although we are fixated on the current experience of watching tv ( and you can go and buy a firewire or usb tv tuner, or get a firewire cable box ) IMHO tv delivery is about to be radically changed. Tivo and Netflix are going to partner to deliver content directly to your tivo. Cable companies are going to have to respond. We may just see the online'isation of TV in the next few years. Im looking forward to a tivo like experience for all tv watching. Just the shows I want, when I want. If Apple is smart they will get in on the ground floor.



    Video On Demand baby.
  • Reply 17 of 29
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by applenut

    apple doesn't support that as far as i know, and i dont think many tuners are coming equipped with it either. component just offers more flexibility



    And is another niche input of questionable mass market appeal. Heck, why not just include a full MIDI port on it, since they ship GarageBand? :P



    FireWire is *STILL* the preferred all-in-one input jack for HDTV according to the FCC... even HDI is a stop gap technology that will be supplanted by 2007, methinks, when HDTV becomes a standard tech shipping on all TVs.



    Face it, plopping component inputs on there is a step backwards. There's already the right jack on there, and when the various tuner and component manufacturers get their silly heads out of their collective posteriors, and can finally agree on signalling standards, you'll see a fast move in the Mac world to embrace it, even if it isn't from Apple. (Although considering they ship a nifty little demo app with the developer tools for playing with FireWire digital video streams...)
  • Reply 18 of 29
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by mmmpie

    Although we are fixated on the current experience of watching tv ( and you can go and buy a firewire or usb tv tuner, or get a firewire cable box ) IMHO tv delivery is about to be radically changed. Tivo and Netflix are going to partner to deliver content directly to your tivo. Cable companies are going to have to respond. We may just see the online'isation of TV in the next few years. Im looking forward to a tivo like experience for all tv watching. Just the shows I want, when I want. If Apple is smart they will get in on the ground floor.



    Video On Demand baby.




    And looky there! Nothing needed but an Ethernet jack! Will wonders never frickin' cease...
  • Reply 19 of 29
    macgregormacgregor Posts: 1,434member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    And looky there! Nothing needed but an Ethernet jack! Will wonders never frickin' cease...



    It seems to me, though (without any tech knowledge about it), that people will have a slow ethernet jack in the form of cablemodem internet. It won't be HD, but it should pass TV resolutions and at somepoint it should download a movie at about the speed that a song downloads in iTunes AND with QT-like ability to begin playing before the download is complete - most people would be satisfied with the "on demand -like" experience.



    The front end and the iVid Movie Store are all that is needed.



    mmmpie: Okay, I guess I know alot of lonely, eremetic people who live in small places .... what does that say about me?!?! but again, even if they are MAKING iMovies on their macs, they are going to show them on TV's.



    You are right. TV will be morphing big time in the next few years. That is why Apple needs to be partnering with TiVo and Netflix-like companies and standardizing the software so that Apple once again leads the best integrations and solutions. As such, it needs to play around with the technology of television, just like it did with mp3's and pdf's!
  • Reply 20 of 29
    Quote:

    Originally posted by MacGregor

    So design "iTV" with SmartChannels based on content and ratings. Smart searches allow you to instantly find every John Wayne movie in the next month and gives you a list with times, duration, channels and one-click ability to record.



    I do all that with TiVo right now.



    I wonder if it'll make it into OS X anytime soon, however. Isn't Jobs's dislike of TV/computer convergence well known?
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