Punk 'came of age' in 1984 with the Butthole Surfers.
Something came of age then . . . and I was AT the very show where it happened: BSurfers Mabuhay Gardens . . .
But realy, tis true 'punk' was long into 'post' by that time . . . I think the BSurfers exemplified a kind of noisy neo-decadent apolitical alloof strain that sort of leads straight to the likes of the SunCity Girls . . . and comes from a mix of Sonic Youth, Sun Ra, Eugene Chadbourne and Elvis
But those 'post' days were truly better than todays 'post' days . . .
I, actually was too young to catch the full on 'punk' emergence of the late seventies and just caught its dying days in the early eighties, so I really was more immersed in the transition music, the list of 'poster-p' in my first post -Circle Jerks, X, Sonic Youth, Flipper etc, and, if you can believe it, coming from California, outside jazz: Ornette Coleman, Coltrane Air etc . . . anyway blah blah . . . but my favorite at the time wa actually from Australia:
Hey Chrazychester, did you ever see the Birthday Party in Australia? (I guess they were probably in London . . .did you see them there? or at all?). . . or, the Boys Next Door?
I was lucky enough to have an older brother that was friends with some kids older than him. I remember spray painting the Exploited mohawked skull all over the place. Sorry, all over all sorts of legal places....
This thread is just a carefully orchestrated plot to make me feel old.
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
Hey Chrazychester, did you ever see the Birthday Party in Australia? (I guess they were probably in London . . .did you see them there? or at all?). . . or, the Boys Next Door?
I have a vague memory of planning on seeing them when they toured in the eighties but the show was cancelled (something not unknown to them!)
I grew up in Sydney and BND got their start in Melbourne in the 70's. Never played Sydney much. I must ask my old man if he ever played with them. He used to fill in for other band's drummers and was a Melbourne boy originally. By the time the 80's rolled round, they'd already moved OS. Never been a big fan of Nick Cave tho' my best friend from high school days loves him. The Germans seem pretty keen on him too.
The Saints were more my style - another band that went OS and forgot to come home. The late 70's/early 80's were a particularly vibrant time in Oz music. Before the pub music scene got killed off.
Quote:
Originally posted by pfflam
One thing that people now don't understand about that time was that it was the LAST time (with two notable exeptions (sort-of)) where music and culture made real changes in the zeitgeist, in the spirit of the times . . . it was the last time where a cultural form, (music style art) took a shape that seemed to have a relevant reflection of the times and carried that reflection in a critical way.
This is so true. I may have said it before but it's worth repeating......
Record label execs - first against the wall come the Revolution!
Blondie was definitely a punk band. If you don't believe me listen to rip her to shreds or go see them even now. Not only do they not play all their hits, they throw in at least a couple of Ramones covers and maybe a Television song or a Stooges tune.
But people like pfflam remember "Heart of Glass" and don't even realize that there was more to Blondie than just the Pop stuff.
You're joking right?!
My whole speil was based on Blondie pre-pop! But they were still 'pop'-ish . . . in the same way that the Ramones were 'punk-pop' . . short aggressive songs with catchy melodies.
Right I just mean that New Wave is more of an umbrella term. So it's not like if you call them New Wave you are dissing/ignoring their Punk or Reggae efforts, for instance, because they are covered under New Wave.
Pop, Punk, Reggae, Disco, (proto) Rap, Rock 'n' Roll all fit nicely under New Wave, although to me New Wave also holds a heavy, specific time period connotation that cannot be used for later/modern/future acts with any kind of legitimacy. Less a genre and more a fixed time period. Similar to "Renaissance" or other such titles.
--
By the way, I loved Blondie and had them on 8 track and 12" vinyl back in the day. I just think the cigs and booze and God knows what else have all taken their toll on her physically, in a way that depresses me. But hey, that's just my opinion. Also liking Blondie doesn't mean you must therefore hate Gwen Stefani. Times change, enjoyment can be had in many ways, many genres. I don't treat my music like a PC vs. Mac, Star Wars vs. Star Trek, Marvel vs. D.C., Coke vs. Pepsi binary decision.
The way I remember it; Blondie started as a punk band- back in the day at CBGB's. Because Debbie was gorgeous, and some lucky breaks, Blondie got a record deal and some airplay. Then they got a gig to record their lyrics to Giorgio Moroder's theme to "American Gigolo" (at the time Giorgio was a big deal in films), and later the same deal with dePalma's "Scarface". The thing I liked about them was that they refused to "go with the formula". They used the fact that they had airplay to introduce Reggae to the top 40 with "The Tide is High" and rap with "Rapture". The band broke up partly because of the media's attention to Debbie, rather than the band, but mostly because Chris Stein became seriously and chronically ill (at the time, we all thought it may be AIDS), and Debbie basically dropped out of sight to care for him. For good or bad, without Debbie Harry, I seriously doubt we'd have Madonna or Gwen. Oh, and in her heyday, Debbie made both of them look like 4's
"New Wave" was what people said they listened to so as to avoid getting beat up for liking punk rock
But...in my recollection...New Wavers weren't exempt either.
It's true that being punk or even liking it could get you killed back then. We're talking like 5-10 AC-DC loving biker kids coming after you with baseball bats and chains Warriors style. Gotta love those old school 70's gangs.
This was back when "punk" meant (as Wiki puts it) "a male who is treated as a sexual submissive" aka "sissy/bitch/faggot/etc". Still certainly true today although far less so. Most homeboys/gangsta wannabes just chuckle and crack up at seeing a punk as opposed to like, stabbing them.
There was a small window where the term had any kind of good connotation. Now we're at the point where "punk" means self-important, trite, capitalist, pseudo-political, hypocrite poseur. Well, mostly.
But just as today's so-called hippies aren't true hippies, same for today's punks. It's all just playing dressup in daddy's closet.
But just as today's so-called hippies aren't true hippies, same for today's punks. It's all just playing dressup in daddy's closet.
Well, today's dressed-up punks are just playing dressup, but luckily punk was an attitude and not an outfit. Punk still exist and by definition can practically never die.
But...in my recollection...New Wavers weren't exempt either.
It's true that being punk or even liking it could get you killed back then. We're talking like 5-10 AC-DC loving biker kids coming after you with baseball bats and chains Warriors style. Gotta love those old school 70's gangs.
I seem to remember it coming from jocks and izod wearing BMW driver types
Perhaps you misunderstood me: those types would call you a punk and threaten you if you so much as looked remotely 'punker' or even 'New Wave' early in the late 70s early 80s.
Style was not as mixed up and ubiquitous as it is now . . . much more homogenous, part of the punk attitude was to 'be different' . . . . today being 'different' is an advertisement for Apple and is well nigh impossible via your tried and true so called 'counter-cultural' means.
Comments
Originally posted by bunge
Punk 'came of age' in 1984 with the Butthole Surfers.
Something came of age then . . . and I was AT the very show where it happened: BSurfers Mabuhay Gardens . . .
But realy, tis true 'punk' was long into 'post' by that time . . . I think the BSurfers exemplified a kind of noisy neo-decadent apolitical alloof strain that sort of leads straight to the likes of the SunCity Girls . . . and comes from a mix of Sonic Youth, Sun Ra, Eugene Chadbourne and Elvis
But those 'post' days were truly better than todays 'post' days . . .
I, actually was too young to catch the full on 'punk' emergence of the late seventies and just caught its dying days in the early eighties, so I really was more immersed in the transition music, the list of 'poster-p' in my first post -Circle Jerks, X, Sonic Youth, Flipper etc, and, if you can believe it, coming from California, outside jazz: Ornette Coleman, Coltrane Air etc . . . anyway blah blah . . . but my favorite at the time wa actually from Australia:
Hey Chrazychester, did you ever see the Birthday Party in Australia? (I guess they were probably in London . . .did you see them there? or at all?). . . or, the Boys Next Door?
Originally posted by pfflam
Hey Chrazychester, did you ever see the Birthday Party in Australia? (I guess they were probably in London . . .did you see them there? or at all?). . . or, the Boys Next Door?
I have a vague memory of planning on seeing them when they toured in the eighties but the show was cancelled (something not unknown to them!)
I grew up in Sydney and BND got their start in Melbourne in the 70's. Never played Sydney much. I must ask my old man if he ever played with them. He used to fill in for other band's drummers and was a Melbourne boy originally. By the time the 80's rolled round, they'd already moved OS. Never been a big fan of Nick Cave tho' my best friend from high school days loves him. The Germans seem pretty keen on him too.
The Saints were more my style - another band that went OS and forgot to come home. The late 70's/early 80's were a particularly vibrant time in Oz music. Before the pub music scene got killed off.
Originally posted by pfflam
One thing that people now don't understand about that time was that it was the LAST time (with two notable exeptions (sort-of)) where music and culture made real changes in the zeitgeist, in the spirit of the times . . . it was the last time where a cultural form, (music style art) took a shape that seemed to have a relevant reflection of the times and carried that reflection in a critical way.
This is so true. I may have said it before but it's worth repeating......
Record label execs - first against the wall come the Revolution!
New Wave is Punk. Some Punk is not New Wave.
Blondie were not Post-Punk, they were New Wave, which is nonetheless Punk.
The open, experimental aspect of New Wave let Blondie be able to mix Pop, Punk, Reggae, Disco, (Rap), Rock as they pleased.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Wave_music
: phew :
Originally posted by tonton
Agreed.
But people like pfflam remember "Heart of Glass" and don't even realize that there was more to Blondie than just the Pop stuff.
You're joking right?!
My whole speil was based on Blondie pre-pop! But they were still 'pop'-ish . . . in the same way that the Ramones were 'punk-pop' . . short aggressive songs with catchy melodies.
And yeah johnq has a good point too
Pop, Punk, Reggae, Disco, (proto) Rap, Rock 'n' Roll all fit nicely under New Wave, although to me New Wave also holds a heavy, specific time period connotation that cannot be used for later/modern/future acts with any kind of legitimacy. Less a genre and more a fixed time period. Similar to "Renaissance" or other such titles.
--
By the way, I loved Blondie and had them on 8 track and 12" vinyl back in the day. I just think the cigs and booze and God knows what else have all taken their toll on her physically, in a way that depresses me.
Originally posted by tonton
"Rapture" was the first single I bought ever.
Blondie was the first white rapper.
hehe, maybe not the first , but anyway, very early, and certainly the first #1 hit with "white rap" in it.
Allthough nobody could ever understand what she was rapping about... :-)
KRS did a very nice remake of rapture a few years back.
Originally posted by NJ Tom
"New Wave" was what people said they listened to so as to avoid getting beat up for liking punk rock
But...in my recollection...New Wavers weren't exempt either.
It's true that being punk or even liking it could get you killed back then. We're talking like 5-10 AC-DC loving biker kids coming after you with baseball bats and chains Warriors style. Gotta love those old school 70's gangs.
This was back when "punk" meant (as Wiki puts it) "a male who is treated as a sexual submissive" aka "sissy/bitch/faggot/etc". Still certainly true today although far less so. Most homeboys/gangsta wannabes just chuckle and crack up at seeing a punk as opposed to like, stabbing them.
There was a small window where the term had any kind of good connotation. Now we're at the point where "punk" means self-important, trite, capitalist, pseudo-political, hypocrite poseur.
But just as today's so-called hippies aren't true hippies, same for today's punks. It's all just playing dressup in daddy's closet.
Originally posted by johnq
But just as today's so-called hippies aren't true hippies, same for today's punks. It's all just playing dressup in daddy's closet.
Well, today's dressed-up punks are just playing dressup, but luckily punk was an attitude and not an outfit. Punk still exist and by definition can practically never die.
Punk's not dead, no it's not!
Originally posted by johnq
But...in my recollection...New Wavers weren't exempt either.
It's true that being punk or even liking it could get you killed back then. We're talking like 5-10 AC-DC loving biker kids coming after you with baseball bats and chains Warriors style. Gotta love those old school 70's gangs.
I seem to remember it coming from jocks and izod wearing BMW driver types
Originally posted by pfflam
I seem to remember it coming from jocks and izod wearing BMW driver types
Well gee, no wonder why I want it to stop.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Well gee, no wonder why I want it to stop.
Perhaps you misunderstood me: those types would call you a punk and threaten you if you so much as looked remotely 'punker' or even 'New Wave' early in the late 70s early 80s.
Style was not as mixed up and ubiquitous as it is now . . . much more homogenous, part of the punk attitude was to 'be different' . . . . today being 'different' is an advertisement for Apple and is well nigh impossible via your tried and true so called 'counter-cultural' means.