I think the better way to suggest how a $999 headless Mac could be done is to take a $1299 17" G5 iMac, subtract the display and add DVI out. Done. There is no question Apple could do it, and profitably. I think they're just worried no one will buy Power Macs anymore. Problem is, people like me won't buy Power Macs anyway.
Isn't the whole point about the "headless iMac" whiners that you don't HAVE to buy a display from Apple?
No, it's that they only have to buy one display once, rather than paying for a new display every time they upgrade their machine.
People who bought a 15" iMac G4 might well be put off buying a new model if they feel that they are paying for a new screen on top of the cost of the computer, when really all they want is a faster machine and they are quite happy with the screen as it is.
Hurdle how? No requirement to buy them with a PM. Buy something else if the ACDs are a "hurdle". Isn't that the whole point of the "headless" Mac?
You are, of course, correct. However, I would prefer to buy an Apple monitor with my Apple system, just like I would prefer a Dell monitor with my Dell system, etc. My point is simply that I think Apple should consider lower-cost monitors as an option.
You are, of course, correct. However, I would prefer to buy an Apple monitor with my Apple system, just like I would prefer a Dell monitor with my Dell system, etc. My point is simply that I think Apple should consider lower-cost monitors as an option.
I suspect after Apple has milked the early adopters of the 20" aluminum Cinema Display, the price will probably come down closer to $1000. It kinda looks like that's the best we can hope for from them. \
I don't know why Apple decided to stick with the same case for the single processor PowerMac model. I think they should have made the case smaller if it has less fans and less components inside. They could have made a mini tower for it.
I don't know why Apple decided to stick with the same case for the single processor PowerMac model. I think they should have made the case smaller if it has less fans and less components inside. They could have made a mini tower for it.
The reason is cost issue : the current tower case have been already developped, and the economy of scale is also an important issue. A special case for the single G5 tower will cost more than the current one. That's weird, but it's how the industry works.
The reason is cost issue : the current tower case have been already developped, and the economy of scale is also an important issue. A special case for the single G5 tower will cost more than the current one. That's weird, but it's how the industry works.
Economies of scale would make sense if the case was a comodity item, but it's not. Only Apple makes it so the only thing they would have to invest in was designing and engineering a smaller case & motherboard. Now weighing this against the material costs of the case (lots of aluminum) and the PCB board, I think the cost savings would lean torwards making the smaller case.
Now there's one reason I see why they went with the normal case. It's a quicker way to get a special config out on the market. That could mean they are testing the waters again (remember that this config isn't really special, only the price is) and if this single processor system does well, this gives the greenlight to engineer a better suited line of single processor headless G5s. It's not the only reason but it's just as likely as any other.
Now there's one reason I see why they went with the normal case. It's a quicker way to get a special config out on the market. That could mean they are testing the waters again (remember that this config isn't really special, only the price is) and if this single processor system does well, this gives the greenlight to engineer a better suited line of single processor headless G5s. It's not the only reason but it's just as likely as any other.
That sounds reasonable. Now y'all go out and buy those suckers so the rest of us can get a G5 headless in a smaller case. 'K?
Economies of scale would make sense if the case was a comodity item, but it's not. Only Apple makes it so the only thing they would have to invest in was designing and engineering a smaller case & motherboard. Now weighing this against the material costs of the case (lots of aluminum) and the PCB board, I think the cost savings would lean torwards making the smaller case.
Now there's one reason I see why they went with the normal case. It's a quicker way to get a special config out on the market. That could mean they are testing the waters again (remember that this config isn't really special, only the price is) and if this single processor system does well, this gives the greenlight to engineer a better suited line of single processor headless G5s. It's not the only reason but it's just as likely as any other.
It depends :
- if the single G5 is a success, a smaller case is like you said a good investissement
- if the single G5 is not a success, it would have been foolish to create dedicated assembly lines, for a case that have no customers.
I just saw an article on hardmac.com claiming the 1.8 single tower has a soldered processor.If thats true I feel for anyone who has ordered this thing-thinking it will be a better investment than a imac.Apple should be ashamed.
I just saw an article on hardmac.com claiming the 1.8 single tower has a soldered processor.If thats true I feel for anyone who has ordered this thing-thinking it will be a better investment than a imac.Apple should be ashamed.
Well its a better investment as far as I/O an video longevity is concerned. In my Digital Audio Power Mac other then an M-Audio sound card there is an SATA card, Multi-channel PATA Card with USB2 and an upgraded Video card. Even if I couldn't upgraded the processor the video would be faster (Quartz Extreme, Core*) the drives larger and faster (128GB+ Drives, and WD Raptor) and faster I/O (USB2).
With that said 3rd party processor upgrades haven't even been developed for MDD machines yet. Between the more advanced techniques Apple uses in their new Power Macs when will we see processor upgrades for them? When the time rolls around will it even be worth it? When the new Power Mac G6 machines have 3-4 times the bus and the cost of that 3rd party upgrade is too expensive to go for; you end up buying the new machine anyways.
Wonder if Apple makes each Power Mac a bit more complicated for 3rd parties to create upgrades for?
How much will it cost for a dual processor upgrades that requires a radiator and is larger then a G4 Cube?
I just saw an article on hardmac.com claiming the 1.8 single tower has a soldered processor.If thats true I feel for anyone who has ordered this thing-thinking it will be a better investment than a imac.Apple should be ashamed.
It's not. It's on a daughtercard like the old 1.6 and 1.8 single processor models.
Well its a better investment as far as I/O an video longevity is concerned. In my Digital Audio Power Mac other then an M-Audio sound card there is an SATA card, Multi-channel PATA Card with USB2 and an upgraded Video card. Even if I couldn't upgraded the processor the video would be faster (Quartz Extreme, Core*) the drives larger and faster (128GB+ Drives, and WD Raptor) and faster I/O (USB2).
With that said 3rd party processor upgrades haven't even been developed for MDD machines yet. Between the more advanced techniques Apple uses in their new Power Macs when will we see processor upgrades for them? When the time rolls around will it even be worth it? When the new Power Mac G6 machines have 3-4 times the bus and the cost of that 3rd party upgrade is too expensive to go for; you end up buying the new machine anyways.
Wonder if Apple makes each Power Mac a bit more complicated for 3rd parties to create upgrades for?
How much will it cost for a dual processor upgrades that requires a radiator and is larger then a G4 Cube?
One reason I don't think there are many (or no) upgrades for the MDD machines is because they already have some of the fastest G4 processors. there's not much market yet, they tend to focus on the Sawtooth, Quicksilver models for now. I fully expect to see MDD upgrades in the future. But only after there are 1.6+ G4s. Most MDD Macs are dual processor also so you have to have a pretty compelling upgrade at a reasonable price. i don't think Sonnet or the others can do that yet.
Hmmm. Well, a £1049 PowerMac 1.8 G5 is remarkable. Considering there was a £999 G4 1.25 gig tower a year ago!
You've now got a cpu and the bandwidth to blow it out the water and in a much smarter case with a choice of much better graphic cards.
I hope the demand IS there for it. Specced with a gig of ram and the forthcoming GT, it's the closest thing to a 'headless' Mac. If Apple can keep driving Mac tower prices down...then the 'headless' argument is redundant, no?
With the next cpu progession in the next nine months, the low end tower could end up looking really attractive.
Love to see the 2.5 cpu grade in their in a years time! Or an MP!
Yes, the single cpu option with the same tower and the iMac bus speed was the sensible option over another case design. The 'Shredder' case is gorgeous.
Apple are proving they CAN sell towers cheaper. Remember the price of the 1.6 gig G5 tower when it first came out? The price of the first single 1.8? Now the 'low end' single G5 looks like a bargain compared to those!
From a UK point of view, I'd love to see Apple break the 1K barrier and go £995.
I'd like to see the 1.8 G5 benched with the pending GT card.
I'm starting to come around to liking the idea of this machine but I doubt I'll get one; because it's too darned big and because Apple slowed the bus to the speed of an iMac (no doubt to encourage higher-end Power Mac sales).
It does however have an AGP slot, PCI slots and an extra drive bay. These are all things the iMac doesn't have and for those people who have been clamoring for a cheaper expandable Mac, I think it's pretty nice.
I agree with nowayout11 that it isn't such a great bargain compared to last year's machine, but the price isn't too bad.
Comments
Originally posted by allan
However, I agree that the Cinema Displays are a major hurdle that need to be dealt with.
Hurdle how? No requirement to buy them with a PM. Buy something else if the ACDs are a "hurdle". Isn't that the whole point of the "headless" Mac?
Originally posted by hmurchison
The headless mac at $999 is merely a geeks wet dream. Perhaps that dream becomes reality but it won't be anytime soon IMO.
This is weird, cosidering that for just $900 more, they'll give me a $1200 screen and a larger hard disk to boot.
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Isn't the whole point about the "headless iMac" whiners that you don't HAVE to buy a display from Apple?
No, it's that they only have to buy one display once, rather than paying for a new display every time they upgrade their machine.
People who bought a 15" iMac G4 might well be put off buying a new model if they feel that they are paying for a new screen on top of the cost of the computer, when really all they want is a faster machine and they are quite happy with the screen as it is.
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Hurdle how? No requirement to buy them with a PM. Buy something else if the ACDs are a "hurdle". Isn't that the whole point of the "headless" Mac?
You are, of course, correct. However, I would prefer to buy an Apple monitor with my Apple system, just like I would prefer a Dell monitor with my Dell system, etc. My point is simply that I think Apple should consider lower-cost monitors as an option.
Originally posted by allan
You are, of course, correct. However, I would prefer to buy an Apple monitor with my Apple system, just like I would prefer a Dell monitor with my Dell system, etc. My point is simply that I think Apple should consider lower-cost monitors as an option.
I suspect after Apple has milked the early adopters of the 20" aluminum Cinema Display, the price will probably come down closer to $1000. It kinda looks like that's the best we can hope for from them.
This new powermac is a new and simplified design : less fans, less noise (probabily) simplified mobo for a lower cost.
Originally posted by s_sarinana
I don't know why Apple decided to stick with the same case for the single processor PowerMac model. I think they should have made the case smaller if it has less fans and less components inside. They could have made a mini tower for it.
The reason is cost issue : the current tower case have been already developped, and the economy of scale is also an important issue. A special case for the single G5 tower will cost more than the current one. That's weird, but it's how the industry works.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
The reason is cost issue : the current tower case have been already developped, and the economy of scale is also an important issue. A special case for the single G5 tower will cost more than the current one. That's weird, but it's how the industry works.
Economies of scale would make sense if the case was a comodity item, but it's not. Only Apple makes it so the only thing they would have to invest in was designing and engineering a smaller case & motherboard. Now weighing this against the material costs of the case (lots of aluminum) and the PCB board, I think the cost savings would lean torwards making the smaller case.
Now there's one reason I see why they went with the normal case. It's a quicker way to get a special config out on the market. That could mean they are testing the waters again (remember that this config isn't really special, only the price is) and if this single processor system does well, this gives the greenlight to engineer a better suited line of single processor headless G5s. It's not the only reason but it's just as likely as any other.
Originally posted by Outsider
Now there's one reason I see why they went with the normal case. It's a quicker way to get a special config out on the market. That could mean they are testing the waters again (remember that this config isn't really special, only the price is) and if this single processor system does well, this gives the greenlight to engineer a better suited line of single processor headless G5s. It's not the only reason but it's just as likely as any other.
That sounds reasonable. Now y'all go out and buy those suckers so the rest of us can get a G5 headless in a smaller case. 'K?
Originally posted by Outsider
Economies of scale would make sense if the case was a comodity item, but it's not. Only Apple makes it so the only thing they would have to invest in was designing and engineering a smaller case & motherboard. Now weighing this against the material costs of the case (lots of aluminum) and the PCB board, I think the cost savings would lean torwards making the smaller case.
Now there's one reason I see why they went with the normal case. It's a quicker way to get a special config out on the market. That could mean they are testing the waters again (remember that this config isn't really special, only the price is) and if this single processor system does well, this gives the greenlight to engineer a better suited line of single processor headless G5s. It's not the only reason but it's just as likely as any other.
It depends :
- if the single G5 is a success, a smaller case is like you said a good investissement
- if the single G5 is not a success, it would have been foolish to create dedicated assembly lines, for a case that have no customers.
Originally posted by cuneglasus
I just saw an article on hardmac.com claiming the 1.8 single tower has a soldered processor.If thats true I feel for anyone who has ordered this thing-thinking it will be a better investment than a imac.Apple should be ashamed.
Well its a better investment as far as I/O an video longevity is concerned. In my Digital Audio Power Mac other then an M-Audio sound card there is an SATA card, Multi-channel PATA Card with USB2 and an upgraded Video card. Even if I couldn't upgraded the processor the video would be faster (Quartz Extreme, Core*) the drives larger and faster (128GB+ Drives, and WD Raptor) and faster I/O (USB2).
With that said 3rd party processor upgrades haven't even been developed for MDD machines yet. Between the more advanced techniques Apple uses in their new Power Macs when will we see processor upgrades for them? When the time rolls around will it even be worth it? When the new Power Mac G6 machines have 3-4 times the bus and the cost of that 3rd party upgrade is too expensive to go for; you end up buying the new machine anyways.
Wonder if Apple makes each Power Mac a bit more complicated for 3rd parties to create upgrades for?
How much will it cost for a dual processor upgrades that requires a radiator and is larger then a G4 Cube?
Originally posted by cuneglasus
I just saw an article on hardmac.com claiming the 1.8 single tower has a soldered processor.If thats true I feel for anyone who has ordered this thing-thinking it will be a better investment than a imac.Apple should be ashamed.
It's not. It's on a daughtercard like the old 1.6 and 1.8 single processor models.
Originally posted by IonYz
Well its a better investment as far as I/O an video longevity is concerned. In my Digital Audio Power Mac other then an M-Audio sound card there is an SATA card, Multi-channel PATA Card with USB2 and an upgraded Video card. Even if I couldn't upgraded the processor the video would be faster (Quartz Extreme, Core*) the drives larger and faster (128GB+ Drives, and WD Raptor) and faster I/O (USB2).
With that said 3rd party processor upgrades haven't even been developed for MDD machines yet. Between the more advanced techniques Apple uses in their new Power Macs when will we see processor upgrades for them? When the time rolls around will it even be worth it? When the new Power Mac G6 machines have 3-4 times the bus and the cost of that 3rd party upgrade is too expensive to go for; you end up buying the new machine anyways.
Wonder if Apple makes each Power Mac a bit more complicated for 3rd parties to create upgrades for?
How much will it cost for a dual processor upgrades that requires a radiator and is larger then a G4 Cube?
One reason I don't think there are many (or no) upgrades for the MDD machines is because they already have some of the fastest G4 processors. there's not much market yet, they tend to focus on the Sawtooth, Quicksilver models for now. I fully expect to see MDD upgrades in the future. But only after there are 1.6+ G4s. Most MDD Macs are dual processor also so you have to have a pretty compelling upgrade at a reasonable price. i don't think Sonnet or the others can do that yet.
You've now got a cpu and the bandwidth to blow it out the water and in a much smarter case with a choice of much better graphic cards.
I hope the demand IS there for it. Specced with a gig of ram and the forthcoming GT, it's the closest thing to a 'headless' Mac. If Apple can keep driving Mac tower prices down...then the 'headless' argument is redundant, no?
With the next cpu progession in the next nine months, the low end tower could end up looking really attractive.
Love to see the 2.5 cpu grade in their in a years time! Or an MP!
Yes, the single cpu option with the same tower and the iMac bus speed was the sensible option over another case design. The 'Shredder' case is gorgeous.
Apple are proving they CAN sell towers cheaper. Remember the price of the 1.6 gig G5 tower when it first came out? The price of the first single 1.8? Now the 'low end' single G5 looks like a bargain compared to those!
From a UK point of view, I'd love to see Apple break the 1K barrier and go £995.
I'd like to see the 1.8 G5 benched with the pending GT card.
Cool.
Lemon Bon Bon
It does however have an AGP slot, PCI slots and an extra drive bay. These are all things the iMac doesn't have and for those people who have been clamoring for a cheaper expandable Mac, I think it's pretty nice.
I agree with nowayout11 that it isn't such a great bargain compared to last year's machine, but the price isn't too bad.