You see what I mean? You're an advanced user who would tap a dual for all it's worth. The ram is not moot, because there are people with budgets. The dual is out of range for a lot of people, and that's what the single is for.
I'm sorry that I quoted your full message, when I just intended to respond to the "No way is it minus 50% computing power" claim. My bad.
For people on a budget that needs or wants a PowerMac, this is indeed a great addition. It is not optimal however, but as I've said earlier -- a decent addition to a lacking lineup.
I knew when I bought my new iMac that Apple would release this. At least they didn't totally gut me and put it out in some kind of mini-tower, as I really did buy the new iMac to reduce my computing space footprint.
I know its a dumb question, but is it possible to put a second processor in this machine at a later time? I'm on a really tight budget for a G5, but would like to have the ability to bump it up to dual-proc in the future.
I know its a dumb question, but is it possible to put a second processor in this machine at a later time? I'm on a really tight budget for a G5, but would like to have the ability to bump it up to dual-proc in the future.
IMO, they should have shipped the single proc with the same board as in the dual model. But, Apple is not for selling their chips individually; not usually atleast.
Now i'm torn; but in a way, I'm glad that i havent' been able to sell my PC yet and buy the iMac... 1299 for teh 20" display + 1400 for PowerPC is a pretty sweet deal BUT, the dual proc setup is soo much more effecient.
For under 2k, i can get 20" and nearly the same useability as the SProc G5. Looking at the benchmarks, the MP 1.8 and 2.0 are the only setups worth playing high-end video games, no thanks to nice g.card which will run an additional ~400$.
This is WHY PC is better for gaming. For $300 9700 pro on a $150 mobo/proc combo (AMD3.0 FSB333) I got upwards for 80 FPS. LOL.
So, for those interested in gaming. 20 fps on a SP 1.8 + average g.card is going to be a disappointment IMO; but i'm a picky "pro" gamer (my clan went to CPL:Summer to play 2K4). Doom will tax you even harder than 2k4... HL2, if it's ever ported will tax your SP even moreso (physics = proc demand).
If only that damn iMac has a little stronger g.card i would be sold hands down. If only the SP PowerPC was ~300$ cheaper, i'd be sold hands down.
I've been scrambling to come up with $ to replace my recently deceased smurf. I really wanted the Dual 1.8 refurbed, but it was just out of my price range, plus you can't upgrade the crap GPU to the 9600, as far as I can tell. I think I'm going to have to settle for the SP 1.8 with teh 9600, minus the modem and any other extras. I can toss my pci cards in there, buy some RAM, run dual monitors, and probably get away with the audio work I want to do on there without much problem.
That's mainly what I'm saying. 25% cheaper for only ~50% the computing power.
At least for me, the dual 1.8 seems reasonably priced compared to the rest of the hardware Apple offers. The single 1.8, in the other hand, seems overpriced by a couple of hundred bucks.
If you don't need the extra 50% performance that 25% cheaper is well worthwhile.
For instance I need a new report writing comp that I'll occasionally use for games, Myst IV right now. I was going to get the iMac but the new low end PowerMac will be much nicer, especially since I have a monitor from the old computer still.
Performance improvement to cost is rarely linear in computers. That said if you don't need the extra 50% performance that 25% cheaper is well worthwhile.
For instance I need a new report writing comp that I'll occasionally use for games, Myst IV right now. I was going to get the iMac but the new low end PowerMac will be much nicer, especially since I have a monitor from the old computer still.
Edit: Argh, you bastard, you edited your post while I was responding! :P
While you're correct that performance improvement to cost is rarely linear in computers, I think we have to look for comparison with more than just the other PowerMacs. The 1499 iMac gives you the same basic hardware for the same price, but it doesn't have a huge empty-spaced hull (iow. it isn't unnecessarily huge), and it features a gorgeous LCD panel. So you get more bang/buck for the iMac(!), but very few upgradeability/expansion options.
The value of upgradeability/expansion is variable to everyone, but for me, these options aren't worth, say $300, especially not when the tower is huge and has tons of unusable space.
Again, a step in the right direction, but not perfect.
Some of the recent games are multiprocessor aware.
Not only that, but because of OS X's preemptive multitasking there are always other processes running besides the game you're playing. With a dual, a game can get 100% of one processor while the second handles these other tasks. With a single, the game has to share the processor.
I think lots of people are underestimating the benefit of duals. Improved performance in MP-aware apps is nice, but the real gain is in overall responsiveness. It's the same concept; you can effectively have one processor dedicated to user interaction, while the other takes care of any background activities.
The value of upgradeability/expansion is variable to everyone, but for me, these options aren't worth, say $300, especially not when the tower is huge and has tons of unusable space.
Right. With any single G5 tower, you're paying for the engineering to support duals, like the complex cooling system which isn't needed, and the huge case which is a negative. For me to consider the single 1.8, it would have to be priced at around $1200, or have a more appropriate form factor. Still, I agree it's a step in the right direction.
I wouldn't mind paying for the huge case if I actually could use the space for something useful like extra hard-drives, memory sticks, extra optical drive(s) or more.
I wouldn't mind paying for the huge case if I actually could use the space for something useful like extra hard-drives, memory sticks, extra optical drive(s) or more.
Yeah, they do, but last I checked, it wasn't free. IMHO being able to utilize empty space in an already expensive tower should be free.
It's not easy to be a demand-full customer.
Edit: And it still isn't free. It actually costs $400 for just the Wiebetech mount, the controller and the cables. 400! (And I'm almost tempted to use a second exclamation mark.)
Edit: Argh, you bastard, you edited your post while I was responding! :P
While you're correct that performance improvement to cost is rarely linear in computers, I think we have to look for comparison with more than just the other PowerMacs. The 1499 iMac gives you the same basic hardware for the same price, but it doesn't have a huge empty-spaced hull (iow. it isn't unnecessarily huge), and it features a gorgeous LCD panel. So you get more bang/buck for the iMac(!), but very few upgradeability/expansion options.
The value of upgradeability/expansion is variable to everyone, but for me, these options aren't worth, say $300, especially not when the tower is huge and has tons of unusable space.
Again, a step in the right direction, but not perfect.
Then again, the tower gives you a better likelihood that your computer can last longer. Not only the fact that you can change the display when you want (and not worry about dumping the computer if the LCD dies), but you can increase memory to 4GB, add two, faster, larger drives, stick in add-on cards for who know's what coming down the line, etc.
I'm not saying its just as good as a dual, but $500 is a lot of money. Hell, you could get a SP G5 and a new spanking video iPod for the price of a dual, and you have the option of getting a nice 30" display to hook up to it when that inheritance comes in...
On the other hand, if you want/need the space, and you're not the "let's pop in a new card in this sucker" kind of person, the iMac would do you well.
Not really sure why people are complaining about the machine. Its an option that wasn't there last week. And aren't more options better than less?
I'm not trying to express that "OH NOES THIS MACHINE IS SHIT AND DOESN'T BELONG IN THE LINEUP!!!1111" or anything in that direction. I hope you've read my posts. I've quite clearly expressed that it is a definite step in the right direction, but it is not perfect.
Wouldn't you also complain if they released a quad G5 3GHz for the just price of $2000000? Even if it wasn't there the day before? Even if this is a very extreme example, it expresses my right to complain about something -- even if there is something good about it.
I'm in the market for a cheap mac tower to replace my trusty DP450.
However, I'd choose a refurb over the new SP G5 tower. $1200 for a 1.6 or $1700 for a DP 1.8. (USD)
Somehow, this would seem like a much better deal if the case were half the size. The monstrous case seems to accent the cheaper machine's limitation rather than compliment them.
Comments
Originally posted by the cool gut
You see what I mean? You're an advanced user who would tap a dual for all it's worth. The ram is not moot, because there are people with budgets. The dual is out of range for a lot of people, and that's what the single is for.
I'm sorry that I quoted your full message, when I just intended to respond to the "No way is it minus 50% computing power" claim. My bad.
For people on a budget that needs or wants a PowerMac, this is indeed a great addition. It is not optimal however, but as I've said earlier -- a decent addition to a lacking lineup.
Originally posted by Betelgeuse
I know its a dumb question, but is it possible to put a second processor in this machine at a later time? I'm on a really tight budget for a G5, but would like to have the ability to bump it up to dual-proc in the future.
Sorry no.
Now i'm torn; but in a way, I'm glad that i havent' been able to sell my PC yet and buy the iMac... 1299 for teh 20" display + 1400 for PowerPC is a pretty sweet deal BUT, the dual proc setup is soo much more effecient.
For under 2k, i can get 20" and nearly the same useability as the SProc G5. Looking at the benchmarks, the MP 1.8 and 2.0 are the only setups worth playing high-end video games, no thanks to nice g.card which will run an additional ~400$.
This is WHY PC is better for gaming. For $300 9700 pro on a $150 mobo/proc combo (AMD3.0 FSB333) I got upwards for 80 FPS. LOL.
So, for those interested in gaming. 20 fps on a SP 1.8 + average g.card is going to be a disappointment IMO; but i'm a picky "pro" gamer (my clan went to CPL:Summer to play 2K4). Doom will tax you even harder than 2k4... HL2, if it's ever ported will tax your SP even moreso (physics = proc demand).
If only that damn iMac has a little stronger g.card i would be sold hands down. If only the SP PowerPC was ~300$ cheaper, i'd be sold hands down.
Torn... torn...
:colin
Originally posted by Zapchud
That's mainly what I'm saying. 25% cheaper for only ~50% the computing power.
At least for me, the dual 1.8 seems reasonably priced compared to the rest of the hardware Apple offers. The single 1.8, in the other hand, seems overpriced by a couple of hundred bucks.
If you don't need the extra 50% performance that 25% cheaper is well worthwhile.
For instance I need a new report writing comp that I'll occasionally use for games, Myst IV right now. I was going to get the iMac but the new low end PowerMac will be much nicer, especially since I have a monitor from the old computer still.
Originally posted by Telomar
Performance improvement to cost is rarely linear in computers. That said if you don't need the extra 50% performance that 25% cheaper is well worthwhile.
For instance I need a new report writing comp that I'll occasionally use for games, Myst IV right now. I was going to get the iMac but the new low end PowerMac will be much nicer, especially since I have a monitor from the old computer still.
Edit: Argh, you bastard, you edited your post while I was responding! :P
While you're correct that performance improvement to cost is rarely linear in computers, I think we have to look for comparison with more than just the other PowerMacs. The 1499 iMac gives you the same basic hardware for the same price, but it doesn't have a huge empty-spaced hull (iow. it isn't unnecessarily huge), and it features a gorgeous LCD panel. So you get more bang/buck for the iMac(!), but very few upgradeability/expansion options.
The value of upgradeability/expansion is variable to everyone, but for me, these options aren't worth, say $300, especially not when the tower is huge and has tons of unusable space.
Again, a step in the right direction, but not perfect.
Originally posted by PB
Some of the recent games are multiprocessor aware.
Not only that, but because of OS X's preemptive multitasking there are always other processes running besides the game you're playing. With a dual, a game can get 100% of one processor while the second handles these other tasks. With a single, the game has to share the processor.
I think lots of people are underestimating the benefit of duals. Improved performance in MP-aware apps is nice, but the real gain is in overall responsiveness. It's the same concept; you can effectively have one processor dedicated to user interaction, while the other takes care of any background activities.
Originally posted by Zapchud
The value of upgradeability/expansion is variable to everyone, but for me, these options aren't worth, say $300, especially not when the tower is huge and has tons of unusable space.
Right. With any single G5 tower, you're paying for the engineering to support duals, like the complex cooling system which isn't needed, and the huge case which is a negative. For me to consider the single 1.8, it would have to be priced at around $1200, or have a more appropriate form factor. Still, I agree it's a step in the right direction.
Originally posted by Zapchud
I wouldn't mind paying for the huge case if I actually could use the space for something useful like extra hard-drives, memory sticks, extra optical drive(s) or more.
Wiebetech and others offers extra drive mounts
Originally posted by hmurchison
Wiebetech and others offers extra drive mounts
Yeah, they do, but last I checked, it wasn't free. IMHO being able to utilize empty space in an already expensive tower should be free.
It's not easy to be a demand-full customer.
Edit: And it still isn't free. It actually costs $400 for just the Wiebetech mount, the controller and the cables. 400! (And I'm almost tempted to use a second exclamation mark.)
Originally posted by Zapchud
Edit: Argh, you bastard, you edited your post while I was responding! :P
You bastard you replied while I was editting
Originally posted by Telomar
You bastard you replied while I was editting
Originally posted by Zapchud
Edit: Argh, you bastard, you edited your post while I was responding! :P
While you're correct that performance improvement to cost is rarely linear in computers, I think we have to look for comparison with more than just the other PowerMacs. The 1499 iMac gives you the same basic hardware for the same price, but it doesn't have a huge empty-spaced hull (iow. it isn't unnecessarily huge), and it features a gorgeous LCD panel. So you get more bang/buck for the iMac(!), but very few upgradeability/expansion options.
The value of upgradeability/expansion is variable to everyone, but for me, these options aren't worth, say $300, especially not when the tower is huge and has tons of unusable space.
Again, a step in the right direction, but not perfect.
Then again, the tower gives you a better likelihood that your computer can last longer. Not only the fact that you can change the display when you want (and not worry about dumping the computer if the LCD dies), but you can increase memory to 4GB, add two, faster, larger drives, stick in add-on cards for who know's what coming down the line, etc.
I'm not saying its just as good as a dual, but $500 is a lot of money. Hell, you could get a SP G5 and a new spanking video iPod for the price of a dual, and you have the option of getting a nice 30" display to hook up to it when that inheritance comes in...
On the other hand, if you want/need the space, and you're not the "let's pop in a new card in this sucker" kind of person, the iMac would do you well.
Not really sure why people are complaining about the machine. Its an option that wasn't there last week. And aren't more options better than less?
Wouldn't you also complain if they released a quad G5 3GHz for the just price of $2000000? Even if it wasn't there the day before? Even if this is a very extreme example, it expresses my right to complain about something -- even if there is something good about it.
However, I'd choose a refurb over the new SP G5 tower. $1200 for a 1.6 or $1700 for a DP 1.8. (USD)
Somehow, this would seem like a much better deal if the case were half the size. The monstrous case seems to accent the cheaper machine's limitation rather than compliment them.