Er. That's exactly what the Finder does NOW... haven't used it, I take it?
Currently the Finder creates a hidden disk image, so when you drag items to the disc to be burned you are actually copying the file to a disk image, so you have to wait for the copy of the file to complete before you can burn. I always found that annoying.
Also the inability to erase CD-RWs from the Finder is a pain, hell.. we had that in OS 9. Thats one thing I would really like added back into the Finder.
Now onto these 'burnable folders', I find them a very interesting addition and a good way of collecting a bunch of files around your drive (or multiple drives) that may need to be burned on a regular basis.
I don't think you get it. There are several more elegant ways Apple could have done this.
Prove it. Name one that will stand up to scrutiny.
Quote:
Making a special 'Burnable Folder' is just the simple (or Microsftian) way out of a more complex problem.
Then come up with something better.
Quote:
Any folder should be burnable.
Any folder is. We covered that.
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There are ways to warn the user before burn (during normal usage of folders) and when the burn is about to be initiated...Apple just needs to put in subtle warnings that don't disrupt workflow.
Like what? I have (checks really quickly) looks like about 14,000 folders on my drive right now. Seems like a lot of waste when I can guarantee you that >13,990 of those are likely to never be burned to optical media.
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Really...a special Burnable Folder is a joke...it's no surprise that Apple comes up with half-baked solutions at the rate they're introducing new features. They should slow down and plan their shit.
So take your time, and come back with a better plan. We'll wait.
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At the very least, one should be able to make his normal folders burnable without creating a new 'Burnable Folder' for this whole thing to be taken seriously. [/B]
Currently the Finder creates a hidden disk image, so when you drag items to the disc to be burned you are actually copying the file to a disk image, so you have to wait for the copy of the file to complete before you can burn. I always found that annoying.
Ack, you're right. My bad.
Quote:
Also the inability to erase CD-RWs from the Finder is a pain, hell.. we had that in OS 9. Thats one thing I would really like added back into the Finder.
Prove it. Name one that will stand up to scrutiny.
Then come up with something better.
Any folder is. We covered that.
Like what? I have (checks really quickly) looks like about 14,000 folders on my drive right now. Seems like a lot of waste when I can guarantee you that >13,990 of those are likely to never be burned to optical media.
So take your time, and come back with a better plan. We'll wait.
Oh please. Been covered.
All folders could have a 'prepare for burning' icon that would ready it for burning and warn the user if it's exceeded the media's capacity. It could be left on or not depending on the user's wishes. Then, when they want to burn the content, they can simply click the burn icon.
Having a new option to create a 'Burnable Folder' and not being able to switch between Burnable and Normal Folder is a stupid solution. Why segregate the two? If someone created a folder that he suddenly wants to burn but realizes it wasn't created as a burnable folder, what does he do? Create a new 'Burnable Folder' and move the contents into it? That's a ridiculous solution. You may like it but it proves you're not thinking about better solutions and taking whatever Apple serves you as if it were on a silver platter.
That wasn't hard now was it? Didn't take much time either. Apple could spend a hundred times as much time as I did (one minute) and even come up with something better.
As of right now, is there a way to have Burnable Smart Folders? No? Didn't think so. My solution wouldn't discrimate between normal and smart folders.
Anyways...they're still dev builds and 10.4 is subject to change before it's final, so I still have hope that Apple will clean up the mess it's making.
It's also inconceivable that 'New Smart Folders' is absent from the File menu when Smart Whatever is available in every other app that can create Smart objects and that 'New Burnable Folder' is...but...that's right, dev build. I'm sure it'll turn up eventually.
Er. That's exactly what the Finder does NOW... haven't used it, I take it?
I'm not using Panther, but Jaguar. Doesn't Jaguar actually move a duplicate copy of the file to "the hidden folder" and then burn the CD, taking way too long? If this has changed in Panther then I would be unaware of the change.
Edit: Didn't see ChrisG's, and your follow up, before posting. Someone get a permanent marker and write this on the calendar. I WAS CORRECT, I CORRECT! Boston wins the World Series, and I'm correct. When does hell freeze over?
I'm not running the Tiger dev version, so I'm just going on what is being reported:
Currently it works like this:
* A temporary disk image,folder, is created when a blank CD is inserted into your machine - it has a CD icon
* You can copy files to the disk image
* You click on it and burn it
In Tiger:
* You don't need to insert a blank CD anymore
* A special type of folder with a burn icon is created instead of the CD icon
* Only aliases to the original file are copied into the burnable folder
* You click on it and burn it
* I assume that a temporary disk image is created when you do burn the folder
So the main difference between the two is the first burns a copy of the files as they are when you drag them to the CD icon and the second burns a copy of the files as are when you click burn.
I can see myself using this mostly for my weekly manual backups for projects. Create a smart folder of only the stuff that I want backed up in the project directory and then copy that smart folder to a burnable folder. Nothing major, just a convenience.
I'm not running the Tiger dev version, so I'm just going on what is being reported:
Currently it works like this:
* A temporary disk image,folder, is created when a blank CD is inserted into your machine - it has a CD icon
* You can copy files to the disk image
* You click on it and burn it
In Tiger:
* You don't need to insert a blank CD anymore
* A special type of folder with a burn icon is created instead of the CD icon
* Only aliases to the original file are copied into the burnable folder
* You click on it and burn it
* I assume that a temporary disk image is created when you do burn the folder
So the main difference between the two is the first burns a copy of the files as they are when you drag them to the CD icon and the second burns a copy of the files as are when you click burn.
I can see myself using this mostly for my weekly manual backups for projects. Create a smart folder of only the stuff that I want backed up in the project directory and then copy that smart folder to a burnable folder. Nothing major, just a convenience.
Did you mean to say inconvenience?
I can see two problems:
1) it would simply be easier to burn the smart folder directly than to copy it to a burnable folder and then burn that
2) as of right now, smart folders are treated as query files...I don't know if this is going to change but I hope it does...if it doesn't, you'll just be burning a query file instead the actual files that you wanted to burn that were returned by the query
First Apple rips of Karelia for Watson, now this. Why does Apple go through all the trouble of courting developers if they are just going to rip them off?
I hope the guy was at least compensated for this....
Louzer seems to be one of the few people here who really GET what the burnable folder does. If you make a normal folder burnable, you're just burning the files physically inside this folder on the disk!
From what I can tell, a burnable folder keeps aliases for files all over the disk. You're not duplicating the files so there's no wait or wasted space. Then when you burn, unlike a normal folder, it resolves the aliases and makes your gathered backup. A normal folder would burn the stupid aliases, cuz that's what u asked it to do.
You also don't have to rearrange your file structure to make sure all the things you want to back up are in the same normal folder so u can back it up all at once. And changes to the original files are reflected in each later burn. Think of it as a data disc compilation document in Toast, but it's right in the Finder.
All folders could have a 'prepare for burning' icon that would ready it for burning and warn the user if it's exceeded the media's capacity. It could be left on or not depending on the user's wishes. Then, when they want to burn the content, they can simply click the burn icon.
Having a new option to create a 'Burnable Folder' and not being able to switch between Burnable and Normal Folder is a stupid solution. Why segregate the two? If someone created a folder that he suddenly wants to burn but realizes it wasn't created as a burnable folder, what does he do? Create a new 'Burnable Folder' and move the contents into it? That's a ridiculous solution. You may like it but it proves you're not thinking about better solutions and taking whatever Apple serves you as if it were on a silver platter.
That wasn't hard now was it? Didn't take much time either. Apple could spend a hundred times as much time as I did (one minute) and even come up with something better.
As of right now, is there a way to have Burnable Smart Folders? No? Didn't think so. My solution wouldn't discrimate between normal and smart folders.
Anyways...they're still dev builds and 10.4 is subject to change before it's final, so I still have hope that Apple will clean up the mess it's making.
It's also inconceivable that 'New Smart Folders' is absent from the File menu when Smart Whatever is available in every other app that can create Smart objects and that 'New Burnable Folder' is...but...that's right, dev build. I'm sure it'll turn up eventually.
I think you have been confused by the name. When I saw this, I did not think that you could only burn this or that folder. I saw, "Hey great! I can finally now save off my backup set!" I.e., when I want to backup my pics, email, docs or whatever, I don't have to insert a blank media, and remember what items I want to back up. I just create a new "backup set" or "burnable folder", browse to it, click burn, insert blank, and the data gets backed up.
Maybe you did see this too, but, from your comments, it does not sound to me to be the case. I think others have been confused as well. I think it is just a bad name, or a matter of getting used to a new name for backup set, which, some people might not understand either anyway :-)
I just want it to say, "please insert disk 2", when disk 1 gets filled up, instead of just saying "can't fit all of the information onto the disk".
I think you have been confused by the name. When I saw this, I did not think that you could only burn this or that folder. I saw, "Hey great! I can finally now save off my backup set!" I.e., when I want to backup my pics, email, docs or whatever, I don't have to insert a blank media, and remember what items I want to back up. I just create a new "backup set" or "burnable folder", browse to it, click burn, insert blank, and the data gets backed up.
Maybe you did see this too, but, from your comments, it does not sound to me to be the case. I think others have been confused as well. I think it is just a bad name, or a matter of getting used to a new name for backup set, which, some people might not understand either anyway :-)
I just want it to say, "please insert disk 2", when disk 1 gets filled up, instead of just saying "can't fit all of the information onto the disk".
I get what you're saying just fine...and there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to just hit burn from any folder.
Smart Folders can be thought of 'aliases' to files...why is it excluded from being burnable in the 'Burnable Folder' implementation we see in 8A294
Having a new option to create a 'Burnable Folder' and not being able to switch between Burnable and Normal Folder is a stupid solution. Why segregate the two?
Because one is designed for backing up files (burnable folder), and one is not. One contains anything (file, folder, alias), and one contains just aliases of files that need to be backed-up to a CD/DVD on a regular basis.
I would bet that most Tiger users don't use burnable folders, because they don't back up their files, and won't start. They might, however, continue to burn disks the way they do today.
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If someone created a folder that he suddenly wants to burn but realizes it wasn't created as a burnable folder, what does he do? Create a new 'Burnable Folder' and move the contents into it? That's a ridiculous solution.
You're right about that. A burnable folder is a ridiculous solution for someone who "suddenly realizes" that they want to burn a particular folder once, as opposed to setting up a backup that will be done more than once. No one, after all, has said that the current way of burning files from the Finder is going away, unless I missed something.
However, I think it's more likely that some people don't really understand what a burnable folder is designed to be, and think it is replacing the existing way of burning CD/DVDs.
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That wasn't hard now was it? Didn't take much time either. Apple could spend a hundred times as much time as I did (one minute) and even come up with something better.
No argument. More to the point, they did.
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It's also inconceivable that 'New Smart Folders' is absent from the File menu when Smart Whatever is available in every other app that can create Smart objects and that 'New Burnable Folder' is...but...that's right, dev build. I'm sure it'll turn up eventually.
Aren't smart folders created from the search function in the Finder? Why would you want to create a smart folder that had no criteria for searching? You search, and if you want to save the search so it's always available, you turn it into a smart folder. Simplicity itself.
Ah, yes, now I remember this is an issue I've always had with smart folders...
As long as I can easily add metadata to a file - like tagging it with keyword or whatever then all this is fine. Like "collect all files with keyword: burn2003".
OK. Take iTunes. You have the library (real files), playlists (aliases of dragged files) and smart playlists (aliases of files collected by search query). Now what we really need to be able to do is *combine* the playlists and smart playlists metaphores into a new "very smart playlist" collection type.
Theoretically the smart folders wouldn't 'need' keywords as they'd be able to search the content of the files (searchlight search). But keywords would be quite helpful.
However, one problem with iTunes is that a single file can only belong to one album. If you have the same song in several albums, you have to have several copies, because the song info is stored in the file as a single entry. You should be able to enter more than one set of album data on a file so you can have a true break from the underlying files and your MP3 player's organization.
Actually I am very happy with the burn folder as it is.
It allows me to set up a nightly backup folder at work, which includes files from various folders, including 2 accounting data files and several docs, minimum. It does save time and allows me to take a critical backup home with me each night.
My real issue is can I first "burn" it to my local external HD and then burn it to, say, a USB memory dongle? I don't always need to use a full CD ffor critical backups.
For those with other desires the thing to do is to define it fully & clearly and send it to Apple as a suggestion or feature request. (Be nice about it - bitching comments tend to end in the trash at a lot of companies.)
It's a great idea and will delay the introduction of Longhorn another month . . .
I get what you're saying just fine...and there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to just hit burn from any folder.
Smart Folders can be thought of 'aliases' to files...why is it excluded from being burnable in the 'Burnable Folder' implementation we see in 8A294
It's the first version of Burnable Folders, so I'd imagine it will evolve some before Tiger is released. A few things I'd like to see are some more details in that yellow bar, showing how many CD's/DVD's you'll need to back up the files, and also some way of doing the same thing with Smart Folders. That way you can save off these lists of files to be burned that are generated either manually or automatically (just like you can burn regular playlists or smart playlists in iTunes).
Because one is designed for backing up files (burnable folder), and one is not. One contains anything (file, folder, alias), and one contains just aliases of files that need to be backed-up to a CD/DVD on a regular basis.
I would bet that most Tiger users don't use burnable folders, because they don't back up their files, and won't start. They might, however, continue to burn disks the way they do today.
You're right about that. A burnable folder is a ridiculous solution for someone who "suddenly realizes" that they want to burn a particular folder once, as opposed to setting up a backup that will be done more than once. No one, after all, has said that the current way of burning files from the Finder is going away, unless I missed something.
However, I think it's more likely that some people don't really understand what a burnable folder is designed to be, and think it is replacing the existing way of burning CD/DVDs.
No argument. More to the point, they did.
Aren't smart folders created from the search function in the Finder? Why would you want to create a smart folder that had no criteria for searching? You search, and if you want to save the search so it's always available, you turn it into a smart folder. Simplicity itself.
You don't seem to understand anything I've been saying...but I'll address the last part which I haven't really spent much time on.
Address Book smart groups, iPhoto smart groups iTunes smart playlists all have a 'New Smartwhatever' option under File which pops a sheet down so you can enter your criteria. Creating a new smart folder would do just that...ask for the criterias.
I'm not disagreeing that the way it works right now isn't "simplicity itself"...it is simple...but the option to create a smart folder without having to first enter a criteria into the search field would be good...especially for those that need to just create a folder of all files with 'Kind' = RockNES Cartridge. If the current implementation doesn't change (Spotlight doesn't find all RockNES cartridges if you type in 'RockNES', the current way of making Smart Folder sucks balls for this type of query.
Oh why do people get so bent out of shape over a feature that may or may not make it into Tiger when its released, or not even make it in there in its current form. There's reasons this stuff is in development: its not done yet. To say you can or can't burn a folder or burn a smart folder is only stating what you know it can or can't do right now, not what its going to do in the final version.
Now, getting onto the subject of this...
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I get what you're saying just fine...and there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to just hit burn from any folder.
Smart Folders can be thought of 'aliases' to files...why is it excluded from being burnable in the 'Burnable Folder' implementation we see in 8A294
First off, creating a special folder has the advantages of (a) containing aliases instead of files, so the originals can be stored anywhere, and (b) allow the user to organize a task by using separate mechanisms ("I want to have a back-up set, hey, here's a folder listing all the files I want to back up.")
Making smart folders burnable doesn't solve the problem that 'burnable folders' address, as you would need to define a smart folder's criteria to find all the files you want to burn (exactly how do you group your Quicken Data file, mail files, Safari Bookmarks, Address Book, iTunes playlists, Excel spreadsheets, Word documents, iChat logs, etc, into a single smart folder?). It would work if you were trying to burn all files "within my home directory that are dated within the last week" and stuff, but not just for a random group of files that you want to make sure you have copies of.
Also, burning every folder doesn't solve this problem, because it assumes (a) all your files are in one place, and/or (b) you want to burn all files within the folder. Maybe you're like that, but my files are all organized under different directories, with some on the server, some in Documents, some in Library, some in other directories both in and out of my Home directory. But I don't want to burn my entire Documents folder. Just certain critical files. So to use the 'burn any folder' philosophy, I'd have to create a new folder, copy the files into the folder, and then burn that, which is exactly what you'd have to do with a burn folder, except they're aliases you create, not copies (unless they set up the burn folder option you want to burn originals, but like I argued previously and you ignored, what if you don't want the originals or realize there is aliases in the folder that would bring over large files or folders?).
So, basically, burn folders DO make sense. Their current implementation may not be the greatest, but I would hope Apple at this point in time is worrying about the functionality working rather than making it pretty first, then getting it to work second.
As to the arguments that any folder, even smart folders, should be burnable, I agree. It would be nice. But that doesn't make the burnable folders option unneeded or unwanted.
I'm not disagreeing that the way it works right now isn't "simplicity itself"...it is simple...but the option to create a smart folder without having to first enter a criteria into the search field would be good...especially for those that need to just create a folder of all files with 'Kind' = RockNES Cartridge. If the current implementation doesn't change (Spotlight doesn't find all RockNES cartridges if you type in 'RockNES', the current way of making Smart Folder sucks balls for this type of query.
Well, being that you seem to be using tiger (based on your quotes, it seems like its firsthand), you should then be submitting feedback to apple on these issues so they can get resolved (then again, being Tiger is 6 months from being released, to think that the way it is now means its how it will be is an iffy proposition). Of course, if you are using Tiger, I don't think you're supposed to be saying anything about it, which then implies you have a 'bootleg' copy, and, as such, Apple won't care what you have to say on the matter.
Ok...stfu everyone and listen carefully before spouting out nonsense.
Why have a Burnable Folder when any folder can act as a Burnable Folder. Burnable Folder shouldn't exist at all if Apple spent a bit more time just refining current folders to allow the aliases or files within to be burned...or tagging files to be burned.
Everything Louzer et al are trying to tell me about Burnable Folder *can* exist with normal folders if Apple took the time to implement it correctly.
There is zero reason to segregate folder and burnable folders.
And I don't know where the confusion is coming from when I'm talking about burnable smart folders. You're burning the content that was returned by the query...is that a difficult concept to grasp?
All I'm asking is Apple to drop the 'New Burnable Folder' nonsense. Make any folder 'preparable for burning' (like iTunes when you click the button and the shutter opens up to show the burn button) or any files taggable for burning and then allow any folder's content to be burned.
Aliases in any folder would find the original file and burn them...so that takes care of the problem some people seem to think would crop up in my scenario. Smart folders would burn the returned files.
You don't see 'Burnable Playlists' in iTunes do you? No. You can burn any playlist.
Comments
Originally posted by Kickaha
Er. That's exactly what the Finder does NOW... haven't used it, I take it?
Currently the Finder creates a hidden disk image, so when you drag items to the disc to be burned you are actually copying the file to a disk image, so you have to wait for the copy of the file to complete before you can burn. I always found that annoying.
Also the inability to erase CD-RWs from the Finder is a pain, hell.. we had that in OS 9. Thats one thing I would really like added back into the Finder.
Now onto these 'burnable folders', I find them a very interesting addition and a good way of collecting a bunch of files around your drive (or multiple drives) that may need to be burned on a regular basis.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
I don't think you get it. There are several more elegant ways Apple could have done this.
Prove it. Name one that will stand up to scrutiny.
Making a special 'Burnable Folder' is just the simple (or Microsftian) way out of a more complex problem.
Then come up with something better.
Any folder should be burnable.
Any folder is. We covered that.
There are ways to warn the user before burn (during normal usage of folders) and when the burn is about to be initiated...Apple just needs to put in subtle warnings that don't disrupt workflow.
Like what? I have (checks really quickly) looks like about 14,000 folders on my drive right now. Seems like a lot of waste when I can guarantee you that >13,990 of those are likely to never be burned to optical media.
Really...a special Burnable Folder is a joke...it's no surprise that Apple comes up with half-baked solutions at the rate they're introducing new features. They should slow down and plan their shit.
So take your time, and come back with a better plan. We'll wait.
At the very least, one should be able to make his normal folders burnable without creating a new 'Burnable Folder' for this whole thing to be taken seriously. [/B]
Oh please. Been covered.
Originally posted by ChrisG
Currently the Finder creates a hidden disk image, so when you drag items to the disc to be burned you are actually copying the file to a disk image, so you have to wait for the copy of the file to complete before you can burn. I always found that annoying.
Ack, you're right. My bad.
Also the inability to erase CD-RWs from the Finder is a pain, hell.. we had that in OS 9. Thats one thing I would really like added back into the Finder.
No arguments there.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Prove it. Name one that will stand up to scrutiny.
Then come up with something better.
Any folder is. We covered that.
Like what? I have (checks really quickly) looks like about 14,000 folders on my drive right now. Seems like a lot of waste when I can guarantee you that >13,990 of those are likely to never be burned to optical media.
So take your time, and come back with a better plan. We'll wait.
Oh please. Been covered.
All folders could have a 'prepare for burning' icon that would ready it for burning and warn the user if it's exceeded the media's capacity. It could be left on or not depending on the user's wishes. Then, when they want to burn the content, they can simply click the burn icon.
Having a new option to create a 'Burnable Folder' and not being able to switch between Burnable and Normal Folder is a stupid solution. Why segregate the two? If someone created a folder that he suddenly wants to burn but realizes it wasn't created as a burnable folder, what does he do? Create a new 'Burnable Folder' and move the contents into it? That's a ridiculous solution. You may like it but it proves you're not thinking about better solutions and taking whatever Apple serves you as if it were on a silver platter.
That wasn't hard now was it? Didn't take much time either. Apple could spend a hundred times as much time as I did (one minute) and even come up with something better.
As of right now, is there a way to have Burnable Smart Folders? No? Didn't think so. My solution wouldn't discrimate between normal and smart folders.
Anyways...they're still dev builds and 10.4 is subject to change before it's final, so I still have hope that Apple will clean up the mess it's making.
It's also inconceivable that 'New Smart Folders' is absent from the File menu when Smart Whatever is available in every other app that can create Smart objects and that 'New Burnable Folder' is...but...that's right, dev build. I'm sure it'll turn up eventually.
Originally posted by Kickaha
Er. That's exactly what the Finder does NOW... haven't used it, I take it?
I'm not using Panther, but Jaguar. Doesn't Jaguar actually move a duplicate copy of the file to "the hidden folder" and then burn the CD, taking way too long? If this has changed in Panther then I would be unaware of the change.
Edit: Didn't see ChrisG's, and your follow up, before posting. Someone get a permanent marker and write this on the calendar. I WAS CORRECT, I CORRECT! Boston wins the World Series, and I'm correct. When does hell freeze over?
Currently it works like this:
* A temporary disk image,folder, is created when a blank CD is inserted into your machine - it has a CD icon
* You can copy files to the disk image
* You click on it and burn it
In Tiger:
* You don't need to insert a blank CD anymore
* A special type of folder with a burn icon is created instead of the CD icon
* Only aliases to the original file are copied into the burnable folder
* You click on it and burn it
* I assume that a temporary disk image is created when you do burn the folder
So the main difference between the two is the first burns a copy of the files as they are when you drag them to the CD icon and the second burns a copy of the files as are when you click burn.
I can see myself using this mostly for my weekly manual backups for projects. Create a smart folder of only the stuff that I want backed up in the project directory and then copy that smart folder to a burnable folder. Nothing major, just a convenience.
Originally posted by Tuttle
I'm not running the Tiger dev version, so I'm just going on what is being reported:
Currently it works like this:
* A temporary disk image,folder, is created when a blank CD is inserted into your machine - it has a CD icon
* You can copy files to the disk image
* You click on it and burn it
In Tiger:
* You don't need to insert a blank CD anymore
* A special type of folder with a burn icon is created instead of the CD icon
* Only aliases to the original file are copied into the burnable folder
* You click on it and burn it
* I assume that a temporary disk image is created when you do burn the folder
So the main difference between the two is the first burns a copy of the files as they are when you drag them to the CD icon and the second burns a copy of the files as are when you click burn.
I can see myself using this mostly for my weekly manual backups for projects. Create a smart folder of only the stuff that I want backed up in the project directory and then copy that smart folder to a burnable folder. Nothing major, just a convenience.
Did you mean to say inconvenience?
I can see two problems:
1) it would simply be easier to burn the smart folder directly than to copy it to a burnable folder and then burn that
2) as of right now, smart folders are treated as query files...I don't know if this is going to change but I hope it does...if it doesn't, you'll just be burning a query file instead the actual files that you wanted to burn that were returned by the query
http://kaisakura.com/index2.html (click on TheHotFolder Reheated)
First Apple rips of Karelia for Watson, now this. Why does Apple go through all the trouble of courting developers if they are just going to rip them off?
I hope the guy was at least compensated for this....
From what I can tell, a burnable folder keeps aliases for files all over the disk. You're not duplicating the files so there's no wait or wasted space. Then when you burn, unlike a normal folder, it resolves the aliases and makes your gathered backup. A normal folder would burn the stupid aliases, cuz that's what u asked it to do.
You also don't have to rearrange your file structure to make sure all the things you want to back up are in the same normal folder so u can back it up all at once. And changes to the original files are reflected in each later burn. Think of it as a data disc compilation document in Toast, but it's right in the Finder.
I think it's a great idea.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
All folders could have a 'prepare for burning' icon that would ready it for burning and warn the user if it's exceeded the media's capacity. It could be left on or not depending on the user's wishes. Then, when they want to burn the content, they can simply click the burn icon.
Having a new option to create a 'Burnable Folder' and not being able to switch between Burnable and Normal Folder is a stupid solution. Why segregate the two? If someone created a folder that he suddenly wants to burn but realizes it wasn't created as a burnable folder, what does he do? Create a new 'Burnable Folder' and move the contents into it? That's a ridiculous solution. You may like it but it proves you're not thinking about better solutions and taking whatever Apple serves you as if it were on a silver platter.
That wasn't hard now was it? Didn't take much time either. Apple could spend a hundred times as much time as I did (one minute) and even come up with something better.
As of right now, is there a way to have Burnable Smart Folders? No? Didn't think so. My solution wouldn't discrimate between normal and smart folders.
Anyways...they're still dev builds and 10.4 is subject to change before it's final, so I still have hope that Apple will clean up the mess it's making.
It's also inconceivable that 'New Smart Folders' is absent from the File menu when Smart Whatever is available in every other app that can create Smart objects and that 'New Burnable Folder' is...but...that's right, dev build. I'm sure it'll turn up eventually.
I think you have been confused by the name. When I saw this, I did not think that you could only burn this or that folder. I saw, "Hey great! I can finally now save off my backup set!" I.e., when I want to backup my pics, email, docs or whatever, I don't have to insert a blank media, and remember what items I want to back up. I just create a new "backup set" or "burnable folder", browse to it, click burn, insert blank, and the data gets backed up.
Maybe you did see this too, but, from your comments, it does not sound to me to be the case. I think others have been confused as well. I think it is just a bad name, or a matter of getting used to a new name for backup set, which, some people might not understand either anyway :-)
I just want it to say, "please insert disk 2", when disk 1 gets filled up, instead of just saying "can't fit all of the information onto the disk".
Originally posted by arougthopher
I think you have been confused by the name. When I saw this, I did not think that you could only burn this or that folder. I saw, "Hey great! I can finally now save off my backup set!" I.e., when I want to backup my pics, email, docs or whatever, I don't have to insert a blank media, and remember what items I want to back up. I just create a new "backup set" or "burnable folder", browse to it, click burn, insert blank, and the data gets backed up.
Maybe you did see this too, but, from your comments, it does not sound to me to be the case. I think others have been confused as well. I think it is just a bad name, or a matter of getting used to a new name for backup set, which, some people might not understand either anyway :-)
I just want it to say, "please insert disk 2", when disk 1 gets filled up, instead of just saying "can't fit all of the information onto the disk".
I get what you're saying just fine...and there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to just hit burn from any folder.
Smart Folders can be thought of 'aliases' to files...why is it excluded from being burnable in the 'Burnable Folder' implementation we see in 8A294
Originally posted by kim kap sol
Having a new option to create a 'Burnable Folder' and not being able to switch between Burnable and Normal Folder is a stupid solution. Why segregate the two?
Because one is designed for backing up files (burnable folder), and one is not. One contains anything (file, folder, alias), and one contains just aliases of files that need to be backed-up to a CD/DVD on a regular basis.
I would bet that most Tiger users don't use burnable folders, because they don't back up their files, and won't start. They might, however, continue to burn disks the way they do today.
If someone created a folder that he suddenly wants to burn but realizes it wasn't created as a burnable folder, what does he do? Create a new 'Burnable Folder' and move the contents into it? That's a ridiculous solution.
You're right about that. A burnable folder is a ridiculous solution for someone who "suddenly realizes" that they want to burn a particular folder once, as opposed to setting up a backup that will be done more than once. No one, after all, has said that the current way of burning files from the Finder is going away, unless I missed something.
However, I think it's more likely that some people don't really understand what a burnable folder is designed to be, and think it is replacing the existing way of burning CD/DVDs.
That wasn't hard now was it? Didn't take much time either. Apple could spend a hundred times as much time as I did (one minute) and even come up with something better.
No argument. More to the point, they did.
It's also inconceivable that 'New Smart Folders' is absent from the File menu when Smart Whatever is available in every other app that can create Smart objects and that 'New Burnable Folder' is...but...that's right, dev build. I'm sure it'll turn up eventually.
Aren't smart folders created from the search function in the Finder? Why would you want to create a smart folder that had no criteria for searching? You search, and if you want to save the search so it's always available, you turn it into a smart folder. Simplicity itself.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
I get what you're saying just fine...and there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to just hit burn from any folder.
Smart Folders can be thought of 'aliases' to files...why is it excluded from being burnable in the 'Burnable Folder' implementation we see in 8A294
yes, but smart folders are for saving off a "search", so the contents are live.
and, afaik, you can insert a cd, and copy the smart folder to it, and get the proper results.
But, if i don't have my search in the smart folder set up properly, i may not back something up under say my documents folder.
And also, do smart folders keep the same folder hierarchy? If not, the backup would not be the same as what is on disk.
Originally posted by dahacouk
Ah, yes, now I remember this is an issue I've always had with smart folders...
As long as I can easily add metadata to a file - like tagging it with keyword or whatever then all this is fine. Like "collect all files with keyword: burn2003".
OK. Take iTunes. You have the library (real files), playlists (aliases of dragged files) and smart playlists (aliases of files collected by search query). Now what we really need to be able to do is *combine* the playlists and smart playlists metaphores into a new "very smart playlist" collection type.
Theoretically the smart folders wouldn't 'need' keywords as they'd be able to search the content of the files (searchlight search). But keywords would be quite helpful.
However, one problem with iTunes is that a single file can only belong to one album. If you have the same song in several albums, you have to have several copies, because the song info is stored in the file as a single entry. You should be able to enter more than one set of album data on a file so you can have a true break from the underlying files and your MP3 player's organization.
but that's my rant...
It allows me to set up a nightly backup folder at work, which includes files from various folders, including 2 accounting data files and several docs, minimum. It does save time and allows me to take a critical backup home with me each night.
My real issue is can I first "burn" it to my local external HD and then burn it to, say, a USB memory dongle? I don't always need to use a full CD ffor critical backups.
For those with other desires the thing to do is to define it fully & clearly and send it to Apple as a suggestion or feature request. (Be nice about it - bitching comments tend to end in the trash at a lot of companies.)
It's a great idea and will delay the introduction of Longhorn another month . . .
Originally posted by kim kap sol
I get what you're saying just fine...and there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to just hit burn from any folder.
Smart Folders can be thought of 'aliases' to files...why is it excluded from being burnable in the 'Burnable Folder' implementation we see in 8A294
It's the first version of Burnable Folders, so I'd imagine it will evolve some before Tiger is released. A few things I'd like to see are some more details in that yellow bar, showing how many CD's/DVD's you'll need to back up the files, and also some way of doing the same thing with Smart Folders. That way you can save off these lists of files to be burned that are generated either manually or automatically (just like you can burn regular playlists or smart playlists in iTunes).
Originally posted by mwalker
Because one is designed for backing up files (burnable folder), and one is not. One contains anything (file, folder, alias), and one contains just aliases of files that need to be backed-up to a CD/DVD on a regular basis.
I would bet that most Tiger users don't use burnable folders, because they don't back up their files, and won't start. They might, however, continue to burn disks the way they do today.
You're right about that. A burnable folder is a ridiculous solution for someone who "suddenly realizes" that they want to burn a particular folder once, as opposed to setting up a backup that will be done more than once. No one, after all, has said that the current way of burning files from the Finder is going away, unless I missed something.
However, I think it's more likely that some people don't really understand what a burnable folder is designed to be, and think it is replacing the existing way of burning CD/DVDs.
No argument. More to the point, they did.
Aren't smart folders created from the search function in the Finder? Why would you want to create a smart folder that had no criteria for searching? You search, and if you want to save the search so it's always available, you turn it into a smart folder. Simplicity itself.
You don't seem to understand anything I've been saying...but I'll address the last part which I haven't really spent much time on.
Address Book smart groups, iPhoto smart groups iTunes smart playlists all have a 'New Smartwhatever' option under File which pops a sheet down so you can enter your criteria. Creating a new smart folder would do just that...ask for the criterias.
I'm not disagreeing that the way it works right now isn't "simplicity itself"...it is simple...but the option to create a smart folder without having to first enter a criteria into the search field would be good...especially for those that need to just create a folder of all files with 'Kind' = RockNES Cartridge. If the current implementation doesn't change (Spotlight doesn't find all RockNES cartridges if you type in 'RockNES', the current way of making Smart Folder sucks balls for this type of query.
Now, getting onto the subject of this...
I get what you're saying just fine...and there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to just hit burn from any folder.
Smart Folders can be thought of 'aliases' to files...why is it excluded from being burnable in the 'Burnable Folder' implementation we see in 8A294
First off, creating a special folder has the advantages of (a) containing aliases instead of files, so the originals can be stored anywhere, and (b) allow the user to organize a task by using separate mechanisms ("I want to have a back-up set, hey, here's a folder listing all the files I want to back up.")
Making smart folders burnable doesn't solve the problem that 'burnable folders' address, as you would need to define a smart folder's criteria to find all the files you want to burn (exactly how do you group your Quicken Data file, mail files, Safari Bookmarks, Address Book, iTunes playlists, Excel spreadsheets, Word documents, iChat logs, etc, into a single smart folder?). It would work if you were trying to burn all files "within my home directory that are dated within the last week" and stuff, but not just for a random group of files that you want to make sure you have copies of.
Also, burning every folder doesn't solve this problem, because it assumes (a) all your files are in one place, and/or (b) you want to burn all files within the folder. Maybe you're like that, but my files are all organized under different directories, with some on the server, some in Documents, some in Library, some in other directories both in and out of my Home directory. But I don't want to burn my entire Documents folder. Just certain critical files. So to use the 'burn any folder' philosophy, I'd have to create a new folder, copy the files into the folder, and then burn that, which is exactly what you'd have to do with a burn folder, except they're aliases you create, not copies (unless they set up the burn folder option you want to burn originals, but like I argued previously and you ignored, what if you don't want the originals or realize there is aliases in the folder that would bring over large files or folders?).
So, basically, burn folders DO make sense. Their current implementation may not be the greatest, but I would hope Apple at this point in time is worrying about the functionality working rather than making it pretty first, then getting it to work second.
As to the arguments that any folder, even smart folders, should be burnable, I agree. It would be nice. But that doesn't make the burnable folders option unneeded or unwanted.
Originally posted by kim kap sol
I'm not disagreeing that the way it works right now isn't "simplicity itself"...it is simple...but the option to create a smart folder without having to first enter a criteria into the search field would be good...especially for those that need to just create a folder of all files with 'Kind' = RockNES Cartridge. If the current implementation doesn't change (Spotlight doesn't find all RockNES cartridges if you type in 'RockNES', the current way of making Smart Folder sucks balls for this type of query.
Well, being that you seem to be using tiger (based on your quotes, it seems like its firsthand), you should then be submitting feedback to apple on these issues so they can get resolved (then again, being Tiger is 6 months from being released, to think that the way it is now means its how it will be is an iffy proposition). Of course, if you are using Tiger, I don't think you're supposed to be saying anything about it, which then implies you have a 'bootleg' copy, and, as such, Apple won't care what you have to say on the matter.
Why have a Burnable Folder when any folder can act as a Burnable Folder. Burnable Folder shouldn't exist at all if Apple spent a bit more time just refining current folders to allow the aliases or files within to be burned...or tagging files to be burned.
Everything Louzer et al are trying to tell me about Burnable Folder *can* exist with normal folders if Apple took the time to implement it correctly.
There is zero reason to segregate folder and burnable folders.
And I don't know where the confusion is coming from when I'm talking about burnable smart folders. You're burning the content that was returned by the query...is that a difficult concept to grasp?
All I'm asking is Apple to drop the 'New Burnable Folder' nonsense. Make any folder 'preparable for burning' (like iTunes when you click the button and the shutter opens up to show the burn button) or any files taggable for burning and then allow any folder's content to be burned.
Aliases in any folder would find the original file and burn them...so that takes care of the problem some people seem to think would crop up in my scenario. Smart folders would burn the returned files.
You don't see 'Burnable Playlists' in iTunes do you? No. You can burn any playlist.