Whew, Applenut, that was waaay over the top. This guy put forth a very good discussion of currently available laptops, listing which criteria were important to him. He doesn't deserve to be called 'stupid'. *deep breath*
Hardhead, I share most of your sentiments regarding the tradeoffs. OS X is why I am on the Mac platform, yet I do get envious of less expensive hardware on the PC side.
I can't offer a recommendation, since I understand exactly why you went around in circles on this decision forever.
The PC definately has the powerbook beat on price, UI responsiveness, and gaming. Yet the powerbook offers many advantages as well. The powerbook's form is significantly better, being of higher quality, size, and weight (once battery is figured in). The powerbook probably has better battery life when under heavy load. Can anyone offer stats on this?
But finaly, for people looking for something that 'just works', the landscape has changed recently. Adware and spyware are now so prevailent that windows becomes a chore to maintain. Within the last year or two things have really gotten out of hand. Most users now need to constantly battle maliciously installed software.
Ok... I take it all back... and recommend the powerbook. OS 10.4 should do amazing things for UI responsiveness. Can you live without the gaming?
applenut, back up and take it easy. Let me first say that I publicly apologize to you for the "speaking out of your ass" comment. That was uncalled for on my part. OK? I was not attacking your physique. I meant that as a light hearted jab at'cha...
I started the thread to share my conclusions with all of you. I always expect mature and intelligent conversation here at AI. I know things can get a bit heated sometimes in the course of discussion. I'm guilty of this.
As a long time Mac and Windows user, I never got into the "us or them" mentality.
Just to reiterate a few points:
I realize that working in a corporate environment no longer requires "Windows only". The thing is, all of my newer software is Windows XP native, namely the two biggies; Photoshop CS and Office 2003.
All of my Mac software is OS 9 native. I know, I can run it in "Classic". C'mon... So the switch would also entail replacing my software. A considerable cost and nothing to sneeze at.
A fair performance benchmark between the two platforms appears to be somewhat tricky. Many more of you know the technical intricacies of this problem better than I. So I'll break it down in my non-tech way. Win XP Pro on the Overam responds "RIGHT NOW". Mac OS X on the Powerbook feels "fairly fast". I know that's an exceedingly simple description. I don't know how else to describe the GUI response for each platform.
Gaming. Particularly online multiplayer. Yes I love it. I admit it. If that makes me a "tool", so be it. Counterstrike is my current favorite. It's awesome. I can more than hold my own against the youngsters. I'm VERY lucky that my lady love also enjoys online gaming.
Graphics. No contest here. 256MB +DX 9 +8x AGP lay the SMACK on 128MB +OpenGL +4x AGP. That's just the reality of the situation.
My main goal was to RID MYSELF of the "tower" factor. The laptop will regularly get moved from the den to the patio under the trees (um yeah...)where I just ran an outside cable line. Once in a while to LAN parties. Hence, the weight will be a non-factor. Yes, it's a big guy. It's a powerful machine.
I had been living with a very powerful PC for the past seven months. You get kinda spoiled with the performance. Compared to this beast the Overam is a big compromise. I can live with that. The Powerbook at first felt positively underpowered. Laptops, no matter the platform, are going to continue to lag behind desktop performance for a few more years to come.
As I stated before, I'll come back to the Mac if Apple release the kind of laptop that I want.
dfiler, the crap that can affect your Windowed machine are never ending it seems. You just try to stay on top of it. I tell friends and clients. Immediately load Spyware and Adware on your PC and use them at least once a week. They work.
How about your Steelers!? Oh, theres another thread for that.
dfiler, the crap that can affect your Windowed machine are never ending it seems. You just try to stay on top of it. I tell friends and clients. Immediately load Spyware and Adware on your PC and use them at least once a week. They work.
How about your Steelers!? Oh, theres another thread for that.
Heheh, tell me about it. My job is mostly coding and maintainance of database software. However, as of late, spyware and such has been consuming much of our time.
We run F-Prot and AdAware on most machines.
This morning, our FedEx machine froze up completely with spyware. Fortunately, I stole the administrative password from our local rep the last time he came in to rid it of malware. Otherwise, we would have had to ship all orders by UPS until a rep could come out and remedy the situation. The machine will only boot straight into the FedEx shipping software. FedEx is also adiment about maintaining their own machines.
Also, AdAware did in one of the computers in our human resources department this week. This computer happens to be the one running ADP, the program responsible for getting our payroll checks printed and mailed to hourly employees. Apparently, AdAware in not compatible with ADP. Fortunately, one of the other IT gimps stayed late to reinstall everything.
dfiler, I'm glad you replied right away. You're describing a situation I just witnessed at a client's office. I'm pointing him at your response! Over and out.
Applenut, I agree with you 100% on the "corporate client" thing but I honestly think that if he's an FPS fan the PC is better for him.
Where'd he talk about your physique? Oh you mean anal verbage ability? Or maybe the phrase "Upon close inspection, it is more solidy built than applenut and to tighter tolerances"?
Tonton...
This is not the same guy who posts on boxing boards is it?
Yes I agree the "thin" thing is dumb. They should come out with a G5 PowerBook that is a desktop replacement (but keep developing the current lines until the G5 can be in a thin case, and then at that point I guess a G6 PowerBook or something in the thick model) Most of the laptops our campus computer store sells are over two inches thick and probably over 7 pounds. They never leave the students' dorm desks. They have 16" or bigger screens. But this is definitely a niche, and a growing one: the Desktop Replacement. Hell I might get one, or an iMac... I don't move my PowerBook as much as I used to.
hardhead, if you are so serious about gaming, there is no much to think about. A Windows based laptop is the obvious way to go. From game availability to gaming hardware. You know already, but just to point it out, look what nVidia offers today and ATI wil offer in two weeks for PC laptops. But when for the Powerbooks, especially if there is one more G4 iteration?
that was a much more reasonable and understandable explanation for the decision than your initial posts.
Although I still don't understand the desire to purchase a laptop for gaming purposes. The graphics will be underpowered by today's standards, are not upgradable and the native resolution of the displays are usually too high to actually play the games at so you must switch to a fuzzy lower resolution. and because you chose this behemoth of a laptop, in 8 months when games come out that exceed your hardware you are left with a 9 pound unportable portable where as with something that was actually portable it would still fullfill a purpose.
Comments
Hardhead, I share most of your sentiments regarding the tradeoffs. OS X is why I am on the Mac platform, yet I do get envious of less expensive hardware on the PC side.
I can't offer a recommendation, since I understand exactly why you went around in circles on this decision forever.
The PC definately has the powerbook beat on price, UI responsiveness, and gaming. Yet the powerbook offers many advantages as well. The powerbook's form is significantly better, being of higher quality, size, and weight (once battery is figured in). The powerbook probably has better battery life when under heavy load. Can anyone offer stats on this?
But finaly, for people looking for something that 'just works', the landscape has changed recently. Adware and spyware are now so prevailent that windows becomes a chore to maintain. Within the last year or two things have really gotten out of hand. Most users now need to constantly battle maliciously installed software.
Ok... I take it all back... and recommend the powerbook. OS 10.4 should do amazing things for UI responsiveness. Can you live without the gaming?
I started the thread to share my conclusions with all of you. I always expect mature and intelligent conversation here at AI. I know things can get a bit heated sometimes in the course of discussion. I'm guilty of this.
As a long time Mac and Windows user, I never got into the "us or them" mentality.
Just to reiterate a few points:
I realize that working in a corporate environment no longer requires "Windows only". The thing is, all of my newer software is Windows XP native, namely the two biggies; Photoshop CS and Office 2003.
All of my Mac software is OS 9 native. I know, I can run it in "Classic". C'mon... So the switch would also entail replacing my software. A considerable cost and nothing to sneeze at.
A fair performance benchmark between the two platforms appears to be somewhat tricky. Many more of you know the technical intricacies of this problem better than I. So I'll break it down in my non-tech way. Win XP Pro on the Overam responds "RIGHT NOW". Mac OS X on the Powerbook feels "fairly fast". I know that's an exceedingly simple description. I don't know how else to describe the GUI response for each platform.
Gaming. Particularly online multiplayer. Yes I love it. I admit it. If that makes me a "tool", so be it. Counterstrike is my current favorite. It's awesome. I can more than hold my own against the youngsters. I'm VERY lucky that my lady love also enjoys online gaming.
Graphics. No contest here. 256MB +DX 9 +8x AGP lay the SMACK on 128MB +OpenGL +4x AGP. That's just the reality of the situation.
My main goal was to RID MYSELF of the "tower" factor. The laptop will regularly get moved from the den to the patio under the trees (um yeah...)where I just ran an outside cable line. Once in a while to LAN parties. Hence, the weight will be a non-factor. Yes, it's a big guy. It's a powerful machine.
I had been living with a very powerful PC for the past seven months. You get kinda spoiled with the performance. Compared to this beast the Overam is a big compromise. I can live with that. The Powerbook at first felt positively underpowered. Laptops, no matter the platform, are going to continue to lag behind desktop performance for a few more years to come.
As I stated before, I'll come back to the Mac if Apple release the kind of laptop that I want.
How about your Steelers!? Oh, theres another thread for that.
Originally posted by hardhead
dfiler, the crap that can affect your Windowed machine are never ending it seems. You just try to stay on top of it. I tell friends and clients. Immediately load Spyware and Adware on your PC and use them at least once a week. They work.
How about your Steelers!? Oh, theres another thread for that.
Heheh, tell me about it. My job is mostly coding and maintainance of database software. However, as of late, spyware and such has been consuming much of our time.
We run F-Prot and AdAware on most machines.
This morning, our FedEx machine froze up completely with spyware. Fortunately, I stole the administrative password from our local rep the last time he came in to rid it of malware. Otherwise, we would have had to ship all orders by UPS until a rep could come out and remedy the situation. The machine will only boot straight into the FedEx shipping software. FedEx is also adiment about maintaining their own machines.
Also, AdAware did in one of the computers in our human resources department this week. This computer happens to be the one running ADP, the program responsible for getting our payroll checks printed and mailed to hourly employees. Apparently, AdAware in not compatible with ADP. Fortunately, one of the other IT gimps stayed late to reinstall everything.
Ahhh... job security.
Originally posted by tonton
Applenut, I agree with you 100% on the "corporate client" thing
Where'd he talk about your physique? Oh you mean anal verbage ability? Or maybe the phrase "Upon close inspection, it is more solidy built than applenut and to tighter tolerances"?
Tonton...
This is not the same guy who posts on boxing boards is it?
Originally posted by hardhead
applenut,......
that was a much more reasonable and understandable explanation for the decision than your initial posts.
Although I still don't understand the desire to purchase a laptop for gaming purposes. The graphics will be underpowered by today's standards, are not upgradable and the native resolution of the displays are usually too high to actually play the games at so you must switch to a fuzzy lower resolution. and because you chose this behemoth of a laptop, in 8 months when games come out that exceed your hardware you are left with a 9 pound unportable portable where as with something that was actually portable it would still fullfill a purpose.