Price Comparison
Just for laughs, I headed over to our competition, Dell, and configured their high-end laptop to closely match the features of our new PowerBook. Dell does not yet offer a DVD-R "SuperDrive."
So here are the results:
Inspiron 8200
This compares quite nicely to the PowerBook G4/1GHz Combo Drive model at $2,799.
Now regarding the Dell itself:
So here are the results:
Inspiron 8200
- Pentium 4M at 2.2 GHz
- 15-inch UltraSharp Display (1600x1200)
- ATI Mobility Radeon 9000 with 64 MB DDR 4x AGP Graphics
- 512 MB DDR RAM
- 60 GB 4200 RPM Hard drive
- No floppy drive
- Windows XP HOME
- Internal 100/10 Ethernet Networking port
- 56K Modem
- 24x CD-RW/DVD Combo Drive with Roxio's EZ CD Creator
- External TrueMobile 1150 PC Card (Wi-Fi)
- Works 2002 w/Money 2002
- Norton Antivirus 2000 90-day intro offer
- MusicMatch
- 1 year limited warranty
- Free additional Battery
- $150 online discount
This compares quite nicely to the PowerBook G4/1GHz Combo Drive model at $2,799.
Now regarding the Dell itself:
- Inspiron 8200 has a 400MHz bus
- 4-pin Firewire port on Dell, as opposed to Apple's 6-pin Firewire port
- Inspiron 8200 is 1.75 inches thick, as opposed to Apple's 1.0 inch thickness on the PowerBook
- Inspiron 8200 is 7.9 pounds, as opposed to Apple's 5.4 pound PowerBook
- Inspiron 8200 uses a 66W Lithium battery for their approximated operating time of 2-3 hours per battery, while Apple's PowerBook G4 uses a 61W Lithium battery for their approximated operating time of up to five hours.
- Wireless networking is not built-in without being forced to purchase an accompanying base station.
Comments
Processor:
Mobile Intel® Pentium® 4 Processor 2.00 GHz2-M Supports Intel® Enhanced SpeedStep? Technology3
Memory:
512 MB SDRAM
Graphics
4X AGP enabled ATI Mobility? RADEON? 7500
32 MB VRAM (128-bit DDR SDRAM)
Dual display support
Hard Drive:
Removable 60 GB4 Hard Drive
LCD Display:
16.1" UXGA (1600x1200) TFT LCD Screen
Optical Drive:
Internal Removable DVD-R/CD-RW Combination Drive (CD-ROM read 24x max; CD-RW read 12x max; CD-R write 16x max; CD-RW write 10x max; DVD-ROM read 8x max; DVD-R/RW read 4x max; DVD-R/RW write 1x max)
Operating System:
Microsoft® Windows® XP Professional
Software:
Microsoft® Word 2002
Battery:
Standard Lithium-Ion Battery
Ethernet
10Base-T/100Base-TX Ethernet with RJ-45 interface
Warranty:
Limited Warranty: One Year Parts and Labor (90 days without registration)5
Accessories:
PCWA-C150S - Sony VAIO® 2.4GHz Wireless LAN PC Card (PCWA-C150S)
Price as configured:
$2989.98
So, I would say that the powerbook is actually a better deal, with the Radeon 9000, for only $10 more.
Also, here are the weight/size specs for the sony:
Size (H x W x D)
1.6-1.8" X 14" X 11.5"
Weight
8.0 lbs.with one battery
8.4 lbs. with battery and optical drive
Estimated Battery Life
Lithium-ion battery, supports dual battery operation
1.5 - 4.5 hours with one battery
3.0 - 9.0 hours with optional second battery
[ 11-09-2002: Message edited by: off/lang ]</p>
Nevertheless, why pretend we are making a fair comparison? For example, Dhagan, why omit Dell's CPU clock speed is 2x that of a Powerbook or that it has DDR RAM, among other things?
Next, you are comparing a just released model to an older model of a laptop.
And for Chych, I do not know about Powerbook but my 700 Mhz iBook also has a speed throttling features just like an Intel mobile chip. What, you type so fast that a reduced speed PIII 1ghz mobile chip can't keep up with you?
[ 11-10-2002: Message edited by: klinux ]</p>
<strong>And for Chych, I do not know about Powerbook but my 700 Mhz iBook also has a speed throttling features just like an Intel mobile chip. What, you type so fast that a reduced speed PIII 1ghz mobile chip can't keep up with you?
I'm guessing that a 1Ghz TiBook would be extremely competitive speed-wise with a throttled 2.2Ghz PIV M - probably faster in many ways.
<strong>The speed throttling is not the same. My understanding is that with smartstep, it is not an option, it is automatic. On my TiBook 800, I have an option to throttle the speed down. (Is that even an option on an iBook?).
I'm guessing that a 1Ghz TiBook would be extremely competitive speed-wise with a throttled 2.2Ghz PIV M - probably faster in many ways.</strong><hr></blockquote>
1. I do believe it is an option. Never used one with it but from what I hear it is on my default but can be turned off
2. I would expect the throttled 2.2 Ghz P4 to still be faster than the 1Ghz G4 in nearly everything.... it's getting to a point where even throttled, the clockspeed difference is just too much to overcome.
I personally was pleasantly surprised by Apple's notebook update and price decrease. I think the new TiBook is an amazing machine and the iBook is a good value. However, as pretty they are and how cool OS X is, in terms of performance (speed) Apple still has a bit of a way to go (IMHO) when it comes to comparing it to the PC side's latest and greatest (price/performance).
Aside from lacking processor speed/performance and bus/memory speed, Apple is still holding back in areas where maybe they don't have to. 5400rpms are becoming the standard for high end notebooks. HD speed has a huge impact on overall system performance (I've seen this first hand). But to be fair, there is a shortage of 60GB 5400rpm HDs as many manufacturers pulled them from their options until they are replenished. Also, there are Apple's optical drive options. In high-end notebooks you'd usually find 16X to 24X CDR speeds with combo drives. Apple still tops out at 8X8 speed and even slower for the SuperDrive. Blame this on the form over function slot loading drive, but the tray loading iBooks have the same limitations (according to Apple's specs).
This past update from Apple is great and is a step in the right direction. But, if you want to do a proper comparison, you'd have to wait until the performance levels have increased (better processors, faster bus and memory speeds, faster CDRW speeds and 5400rpm HDs). Then it will be fair to say that their prices are comparable. For now, there is no need to compare as they are two different beasts. Besides, at the end of the day it's all about what is good for you and which you enjoy best. The new TiBook would be fine for me for what I do, but I'd be pissed when it came time to burn CDs when I am used to 24X burning on the road. If they'd offer a combo drive with at least 16X CDR speeds, I would have ordered one already.
[ 11-10-2002: Message edited by: Patchouli ]</p>
[quote]in battery mode, the CPU runs at half-speed only. The user does not have the option of running the SmartStep on battery at the advertised speed of 2.2GHz at the expense of battery-running time.<hr></blockquote>
And if you don't believe Tom's Hardware, just go to dell.com and look at a smartstep and you'll see this footnote:
[quote]Â*Power management features limit processor speed when running on battery.<hr></blockquote> Doesn't say anything about it being an option.
This may not apply to the specific configuration in this thread, but the fact is there are Dell laptops that cut processor speed in half in battery mode, without any user control.
That's 1.1Ghz rather than 2.2, as Telomar pointed out a few weeks ago. Perhaps a 1.1Ghz PIV is tons faster than a 1Ghz PowerBook - but I doubt it. 1.1 is certainly not "hundred of Mhz" faster than 1 Ghz. And note, Patchouli, that I didn't say "Intel SpeedStep," I said SmartStep, which is a Dell laptop model not an Intel processor technology.
In any event, it's irrelevant as this is not the norm with notebooks at all and is only an option to configure or buy a notebook with a desktop chip in it (most vendors don't even offer it). The SpeedStep technology is a user option in the Mobile P4 chips which now top out at 2.2GHz and is available from all PC notebook makers. That is what I am talking about. A desktop chip is a desktop chip and is completely optional.
I think we'd all agree that one of the advantages of Apple's choice of chips is that it is smaller and cooler and more energy-efficient than the other guys. From what I can tell, Apple is using the same chip in the PowerBook as in the Desktop PowerMac. It even uses L3 cache as of the previous revision. It's not a cut-down laptop version of the chip. (I'm not positive about this - I remember there being 1.3 and 1.6 volt versions of the 7455. But I doubt there's as much difference between desktop and laptop G4s as between desktop and laptop P4s.)
Most of the benchmarks we see with the P4 crushing the G4 involve desktops. Perhaps the mobile P4 takes much more of a performance hit than the G4 in the PowerBook, and we're not giving enough credit where credit is due.
BTW, I don't think SpeedStep is an option. From what I gather, SpeedStep is a PIII technology, not a P4. At least, they don't seem to use that term in the context of the P4. But it automatically makes the processor more efficient - it's not really a processor-throttling like you can do on my Ti800, setting it to 667.
<strong>Also, there are Apple's optical drive options. In high-end notebooks you'd usually find 16X to 24X CDR speeds with combo drives. Apple still tops out at 8X8 speed and even slower for the SuperDrive. Blame this on the form over function slot loading drive, but the tray loading iBooks have the same limitations (according to Apple's specs).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Read those specs again:
? 16x8x8x24x-speed (maximum) Combo drive (DVD-ROM/CD-RW); writes CD-R discs at 16x speed, writes CD-RW discs at 8x speed, reads DVD-ROM discs at 8x speed, reads CD-ROM discs at 24x speed
<strong> (Is that even an option on an iBook?).</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, Energy Saver, options tab.
Why do people who know nothing about PCs continue to make comparisons to Apple and their products? <hr></blockquote>
To be fair, there are also plenty of people (on the PC boards) who know nothing about Macs but still tries to compare Mac and PCs.
For BRussel:
Intel SpeedStep is an option on its mobile chips. I have seen and used enough PC laptops to tell you that its is true. Whether an OEM choose to limit that or not, that is another question. However, to my knowledge, I do not know of ANY laptop manufacturers that disable the Intel Speedstep functionality on their laptops that uses the P-4 mobile chips.
That technology is used in P4-M as well. Read about it: <a href="http://www.intel.com/home/notebook/benefits/battery.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.intel.com/home/notebook/benefits/battery.htm</a>;
<strong>For BRussel:
Intel SpeedStep is an option on its mobile chips. I have seen and used enough PC laptops to tell you that its is true. Whether an OEM choose to limit that or not, that is another question. However, to my knowledge, I do not know of ANY laptop manufacturers that disable the Intel Speedstep functionality on their laptops that uses the P-4 mobile chips.
That technology is used in P4-M as well. Read about it: <a href="http://www.intel.com/home/notebook/benefits/battery.htm"; target="_blank">http://www.intel.com/home/notebook/benefits/battery.htm</a></strong><hr></blockquote>Yeah, you're right. And that Dell is just an anomaly apparently.
However, I still think it's a legit question - how does the 1Ghz G4 compare to the 2.xGhz mobile P4 when it's on reduced processor performance (1.2Ghz), which it is by default on battery. I also wonder what battery life is like on those machines if SpeedStep is turned off.
U run XP on PC laptops and u run OS X on Mac laptops.
So even though PC laptops are cheaper, U can't get to enjoy the beauty of OS X. So wat if the Mac is beautiful, but u cannot enjoy alot of software compatability??
With that said, what if Moto or IBM produced a mobile version of G3/4 chip? Imagine the battery power on those!
Lastly, regarding PC laptops running only XP, remember linux runs just as well on those x86 machines (may not taken advantage of certain OEM-specific hardware, of course).
<strong>With that said, what if Moto or IBM produced a mobile version of G3/4 chip? Imagine the battery power on those!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Those are precisely what Apple is using...low-power G4s in the PowerBooks...
And the PowerPC 750FX in the iBooks is already a low -power chip. The 800 MHz 750FX uses 3.6 watts typical at 1.4V...The iBook is most likely running at closer to 1.2V.
You don't need an Airport basestation: Airport cards are compatible with any 802.11 basestation.