For the frequent overseas business traveller and the overseas cell tech savvy customer, the ability to switch out your sim card upon overseas arrival is critical. The price point difference of the non subsidized and thus unlocked phone would be well worth the difference and would make up for it in the first global roaming bill.
please, por favor, signme
Why do you switch out your SIM card if you're roaming? Over here, it doesn't matter if your phone's unlocked, you just join a partner network. You even get a choice of network. Must be the same for you, no?
(As sad as it is to admit it) I was in an outdoor shop in the hills and there, were white iPhones and Silver Powerphones.Looks like prophecy is a new skill of mine! (We'll see)
Given that Apple couldn't be bothered doing the obvious thing and putting a USB connection into the iPod photo for connecting cameras, the chances of this happening are slim I'd say.
Do you think that's an accurate characterisation of the design process at a $12 billion dollar company with the largest R&D budget in its sector? Or are you just projecting your own failure to do your homework?
Why do you switch out your SIM card if you're roaming? Over here, it doesn't matter if your phone's unlocked, you just join a partner network. You even get a choice of network. Must be the same for you, no?
tonton's reply doesn' t make sense to me.
When roaming in another country you have increased call costs - often 5 times your standard rate. And you pay a hefty fee for any incoming calls too. If someone in the country you are visiting calls you, they pay to call your home country, and you pay the fee for the call to be directed back.
If I plan on doing more than 30 minutes of phone use in a country, I'd grab a local SIM. I then redirect all calls from my home mobile to the new local SIM. I still pay for calls redirected to me, but it's at my cheap international rates, not "roaming" rates which are far more expensive. I can also give out my new 'local' number as a temporary contact. The only problem is people can't SMS me on my normal number.
Greg
ps. The roaming charges are decreasing. Using vodafone NZ chips in vodafone Aus is a good rate. I imagine the deals are reasonable for roaming within the EU too?
Actually, travellers shouldn't roam if they can avoid it. Because as you said, it's really expensive. What I was describing was the alternative to roaming.
Right on, but you pay for the convenience I suppose.
I've been to seven different countries this year, on multiple trips to two of them, and that's a lot of local SIM cards to buy. The cost of the cards would really add up in the end, and taking into account the sheer annoyance of finding somewhere to buy a card when you'd rather go and have a cup of coffee / talk shit / go to bed / get drunk and / or hang out / work when you could be checking your text messages before you're even off the plane... I am a proud roamer!
The roaming charges are decreasing. Using vodafone NZ chips in vodafone Aus is a good rate. I imagine the deals are reasonable for roaming within the EU too?
I don't think they're too bad in the EU, no?and I'm hardly rolling in money.
I didn't think it was too bad in America, either. I'm about to go to South Africa, though, and I'm a bit nervous to even switch my phone on..!
The cost of the cards would really add up in the end, and taking into account the sheer annoyance of finding somewhere to buy a card
The cost of cards isn't an issue as the cost of roaming far exceeds it.
But the convenience is a very good point. How long I'll be in a country, and how easy it is to pick up a prepaid sim, affects what I do (in addition to how much I'll use my phone).
i think a first gen AppMot? phone will suck for power users like us. We will hate it, bitch at it, ask why its missing a ton of standard things we're used to.... but it will be a hit with joe-user (just like the iPod has been).... and then, in late 2005 or early 2006, a 2nd gen AppMot? GSM will come out with 2 or 3 variants to make everyone happy, from basic user to power user.
I am SO looking to change my Nokia 6600 with something new and if there is an AppMot? phone that is good enough, I'll take the bait despite already knowing it'll suck in the first gen.
I am so ready for this phone, if only because it will be set up to sync to my Ibook or Ipod. It's funny, I was going to post on the board that Apple was going to release a phone very soon. I had expected one in time for Christmas, as I was in an Apple store and an employee basically let it slip. She didn't give me any details, but I've been holding off buying the Motorola 630, waiting to see how things would play out. The 630 is a nice phone, as it's got a megapixel video camera, bluetooth, triband GSM AND a swing out KWERTY keyboard. But at $300 it's a bit costly, and then the cable/SW combo that links to the computer is extra.
Then a well known Apple writer confused me by saying Apple would only release a phone when Jobs wanted one-made no sense as I'm sure he uses prototypes for months before the actual product intro, in other words there's little connection between the lives of us mere mortals and the super rich/connected like Jobs.
PS As for GSM unlocking, you can get it done any time; it just takes 24 hours to get the code. (at least you can at T-mobile). And if you forget to do it prior to going abroad, you can get your phone hacked. I was in the West Bank last year and went into local cell store and paid about $10 (50 shekels, I think). Thankk God, because it was much easier finding the local sim card than roaming. (and so much cheaper, as the real cost was in checking messages) The one danger if your phone is unlocked: if you lose it anyone can install a new sim card and it;s good to go.
so, will apple + moto be able to make a mobile with this:
bluetooth + full iSync (and has to work somewhat with PC's as well)
gprs
tripple band (useable in usa and europe) (if not 3G)
colour screeen
1.3 mpixel camera (sync photos with iPhoto?) (if 3G: videocam)
flash-based memory (maybe the price is without flash-cards?)
an MMS-app for mac os x
40 channels polyphonic ringtones (buy ringtones from itunes?)
size as T610
NO ****ING ANTENNA
and not to forget: ichat app, java apps-capable, wap browser, safari-lite browser. one cool thing would be to have the same adapter/plug-in as for ipods... need to charge battery? - plug in as your ipod... need to sync? - bluetooth or firewire/usb 2.
at 300 dollars?
At 300 dollars, one can be sure that it is not 3G, which sounds a bit stupid, given that that would make it faster and so to d/l songs from ITMS. If it is a 3G phone, one would have to include a video-cam instead (useable as a web-cam too!!??)
sounds pretty cheap.
Remember also, it should be easily connected to your mail and stuff at .Mac, software such as Salling clicker should be included.
What about battery-life?
What about games? (and why doesn't Apple add colour-screens to all its iPods, and make it possible to play games on them?)
Other software (iTunes, iPhoto, all the stuff for iSync (iCal-calendar style in the phone!? great!), add .txt-documents visible in the phone (like in iPod)
and then: will it be tied to Vodaphone or something?
A lot of things needs to be achieved to make it a success. Simply putting in a flash-card and have it run with ITMS is not good enough. All things above (w or w/o 3G) is hard to get for 300 dollars...
At 300 dollars, one can be sure that it is not 3G, which sounds a bit stupid, given that that would make it faster and so to d/l songs from ITMS. If it is a 3G phone, one would have to include a video-cam instead (useable as a web-cam too!!??)
Y'what? If you're talking about price on a network, then you can easily get a 3G phone for that. Even if you buy a pay-as-you-go one and just ditch the bundled SIM, you can get one for less than £100 ($200)!
If it's not 3G it'll at least be 2.5G, which isn't bad (like 56k modem speed).
I need a new phone. If it's a proper smartphone I'll probably get this one. I like Nokia's Series 60 phones, but an Apple inspired one would probably encourage me to switch. But if you can't install new programs (and I don't just mean those pathetic java ones) then it's no use to me... unless the bundled apps are very good!
sure, you can get a 3G phone for 1? if you wish... but then it is bundled with a long subscription (1-3 years) and the phone is usually locked to an operator and you still have to pay for your subscription even if you change SIM cards. Moreover, subscription fees are often higher when bundled with a phone (like 10-20 ? more a month... for 12-36 months.
I ment 300 dollars if you just buy the phone with nothing else. ok, there might be phones cheaper than that, but nobody wants them....
sure, it will most likely have GPRS, but as you already know, it is like comparing modem with adsl...
sure, you can get a 3G phone for 1? if you wish... but then it is bundled with a long subscription (1-3 years) and the phone is usually locked to an operator and you still have to pay for your subscription even if you change SIM cards. Moreover, subscription fees are often higher when bundled with a phone (like 10-20 ? more a month... for 12-36 months.
I ment 300 dollars if you just buy the phone with nothing else. ok, there might be phones cheaper than that, but nobody wants them....
sure, it will most likely have GPRS, but as you already know, it is like comparing modem with adsl...
My point about a pay as you go one still stands. Under £100 and no requirement to pay anything in the future. Just ditch the bundled sim card, get it unlocked for about a tenner, and you're set
ok, heard about the unlocking stuff too, about 20-30? is the price here in Sweden.
sure, you have a valid point in that it IS possible to get a 3G phone cheap. but then either it is butt ugly - or you have to deal around a little with services here and there. here phones are sold with a subscritpion that you will have to continue to pay for, irrespective what you do with the SIM card or how you unlock it. You will anyway have to pay 10-30? a month, depening on time perioed and so forth. so, sure, you get it for a small amount, but will have to continue to pay that sum anyway. i can, if i want to, go tomorrow morning and "buy" a 3G phone for 1? and pay 15? a month for 2-3 years. no problems with that... but....
not exactly the apple way
what I ment, and which does not contradict your point, was that it can be difficult to make a 3G phone with a lot of nice things inside and that looks good, is somewhat small and light and price straight from, say, AppleStore without any other fuss (just pop in your SIM card) for 300 dollars can be difficult. but then, if Apple does that.... there goes my (and yours!?) credit card
OK, maybe this is nuts/stupid/unworkable... but I just had a thought about what the iPhone could be, so bear with me.
The iPod remote at the moment does not work fully with the iPod photo, so sense would suggest it needs upgrading or replacing with an iPod photo compatible remote. This new remote together with new headphones could be the iPhone. The guts of the phone (motorola's side of it) would be in the remote control (phones can be very small these days, and without a battery, screen or keypad, it really could be tiny), the speaker and mic would be in the headphones, and the display and data input would be through the iPod screen and click wheel (the remote could also have a small 'caller id' screen).
what I ment, and which does not contradict your point, was that it can be difficult to make a 3G phone with a lot of nice things inside and that looks good, is somewhat small and light and price straight from, say, AppleStore without any other fuss (just pop in your SIM card) for 300 dollars can be difficult. but then, if Apple does that.... there goes my (and yours!?) credit card
8)
8)
Yeah, that's true.
I was trying to point out that, at least in Britain, the cellphone market is very much geared against just selling you a phone... but there are a load of obvious workaround that everyone knows about. I think we're agreeing on the issue really - certainly if Apple did that my card would be out!
I was trying to point out that, at least in Britain, the cellphone market is very much geared against just selling you a phone... but there are a load of obvious workaround that everyone knows about. I think we're agreeing on the issue really - certainly if Apple did that my card would be out!
Amorya
8)
I hope it will be below 300 dollars. the thing is also, i already have a T610, and I am not really very happy with buying a GSM mobile, and the 3G phones available at the moment are not that exciting. Only Ericsson's work with iSync, and Z1010 is too big, the other one V800 is only for Vodaphone... so no real choices so far.
Comments
Originally posted by TednDi
UNLOCKED gsm
PLeAsE!!!
at least as an option.
For the frequent overseas business traveller and the overseas cell tech savvy customer, the ability to switch out your sim card upon overseas arrival is critical. The price point difference of the non subsidized and thus unlocked phone would be well worth the difference and would make up for it in the first global roaming bill.
please, por favor, signme
Why do you switch out your SIM card if you're roaming? Over here, it doesn't matter if your phone's unlocked, you just join a partner network. You even get a choice of network. Must be the same for you, no?
(As sad as it is to admit it) I was in an outdoor shop in the hills and there, were white iPhones and Silver Powerphones.Looks like prophecy is a new skill of mine! (We'll see)
Originally posted by G_Warren
Given that Apple couldn't be bothered doing the obvious thing and putting a USB connection into the iPod photo for connecting cameras, the chances of this happening are slim I'd say.
Do you think that's an accurate characterisation of the design process at a $12 billion dollar company with the largest R&D budget in its sector? Or are you just projecting your own failure to do your homework?
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Why do you switch out your SIM card if you're roaming? Over here, it doesn't matter if your phone's unlocked, you just join a partner network. You even get a choice of network. Must be the same for you, no?
tonton's reply doesn' t make sense to me.
When roaming in another country you have increased call costs - often 5 times your standard rate. And you pay a hefty fee for any incoming calls too. If someone in the country you are visiting calls you, they pay to call your home country, and you pay the fee for the call to be directed back.
If I plan on doing more than 30 minutes of phone use in a country, I'd grab a local SIM. I then redirect all calls from my home mobile to the new local SIM. I still pay for calls redirected to me, but it's at my cheap international rates, not "roaming" rates which are far more expensive. I can also give out my new 'local' number as a temporary contact. The only problem is people can't SMS me on my normal number.
Greg
ps. The roaming charges are decreasing. Using vodafone NZ chips in vodafone Aus is a good rate. I imagine the deals are reasonable for roaming within the EU too?
Originally posted by tonton
Sorry, I was confused.
Actually, travellers shouldn't roam if they can avoid it. Because as you said, it's really expensive. What I was describing was the alternative to roaming.
Right on, but you pay for the convenience I suppose.
I've been to seven different countries this year, on multiple trips to two of them, and that's a lot of local SIM cards to buy. The cost of the cards would really add up in the end, and taking into account the sheer annoyance of finding somewhere to buy a card when you'd rather go and have a cup of coffee / talk shit / go to bed / get drunk and / or hang out / work when you could be checking your text messages before you're even off the plane... I am a proud roamer!
Originally posted by GregAlexander
The roaming charges are decreasing. Using vodafone NZ chips in vodafone Aus is a good rate. I imagine the deals are reasonable for roaming within the EU too?
I don't think they're too bad in the EU, no?and I'm hardly rolling in money.
I didn't think it was too bad in America, either. I'm about to go to South Africa, though, and I'm a bit nervous to even switch my phone on..!
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
The cost of the cards would really add up in the end, and taking into account the sheer annoyance of finding somewhere to buy a card
The cost of cards isn't an issue as the cost of roaming far exceeds it.
But the convenience is a very good point. How long I'll be in a country, and how easy it is to pick up a prepaid sim, affects what I do (in addition to how much I'll use my phone).
I am SO looking to change my Nokia 6600 with something new and if there is an AppMot? phone that is good enough, I'll take the bait despite already knowing it'll suck in the first gen.
ZO
however, since the thing i hate most about m is their mechanical look designs, maybe if apple controlled the design it might be ok.
requirements for any fone:
1. 3g: wcdma so that it can be used in japan
2. triband gsm so that it can be used in the usa
3. 1.3 megapixel camera
4. bluetooth to work with iSync for iCard/iCal
5. bluetooth to function as the remote to airport express iTunes
5. iPhoneTunes: even flash based is fine. be able to dial up iTunes store
6. mini USB 2.0 jack for fast iTunes iSyncing
Then a well known Apple writer confused me by saying Apple would only release a phone when Jobs wanted one-made no sense as I'm sure he uses prototypes for months before the actual product intro, in other words there's little connection between the lives of us mere mortals and the super rich/connected like Jobs.
PS As for GSM unlocking, you can get it done any time; it just takes 24 hours to get the code. (at least you can at T-mobile). And if you forget to do it prior to going abroad, you can get your phone hacked. I was in the West Bank last year and went into local cell store and paid about $10 (50 shekels, I think). Thankk God, because it was much easier finding the local sim card than roaming. (and so much cheaper, as the real cost was in checking messages) The one danger if your phone is unlocked: if you lose it anyone can install a new sim card and it;s good to go.
bluetooth + full iSync (and has to work somewhat with PC's as well)
gprs
tripple band (useable in usa and europe) (if not 3G)
colour screeen
1.3 mpixel camera (sync photos with iPhoto?) (if 3G: videocam)
flash-based memory (maybe the price is without flash-cards?)
an MMS-app for mac os x
40 channels polyphonic ringtones (buy ringtones from itunes?)
size as T610
NO ****ING ANTENNA
and not to forget: ichat app, java apps-capable, wap browser, safari-lite browser. one cool thing would be to have the same adapter/plug-in as for ipods... need to charge battery? - plug in as your ipod... need to sync? - bluetooth or firewire/usb 2.
at 300 dollars?
At 300 dollars, one can be sure that it is not 3G, which sounds a bit stupid, given that that would make it faster and so to d/l songs from ITMS. If it is a 3G phone, one would have to include a video-cam instead (useable as a web-cam too!!??)
sounds pretty cheap.
Remember also, it should be easily connected to your mail and stuff at .Mac, software such as Salling clicker should be included.
What about battery-life?
What about games? (and why doesn't Apple add colour-screens to all its iPods, and make it possible to play games on them?)
Other software (iTunes, iPhoto, all the stuff for iSync (iCal-calendar style in the phone!? great!), add .txt-documents visible in the phone (like in iPod)
and then: will it be tied to Vodaphone or something?
A lot of things needs to be achieved to make it a success. Simply putting in a flash-card and have it run with ITMS is not good enough. All things above (w or w/o 3G) is hard to get for 300 dollars...
if they do... well, there goes my credit card...
Originally posted by dividend
at 300 dollars?
At 300 dollars, one can be sure that it is not 3G, which sounds a bit stupid, given that that would make it faster and so to d/l songs from ITMS. If it is a 3G phone, one would have to include a video-cam instead (useable as a web-cam too!!??)
Y'what? If you're talking about price on a network, then you can easily get a 3G phone for that. Even if you buy a pay-as-you-go one and just ditch the bundled SIM, you can get one for less than £100 ($200)!
If it's not 3G it'll at least be 2.5G, which isn't bad (like 56k modem speed).
I need a new phone. If it's a proper smartphone I'll probably get this one. I like Nokia's Series 60 phones, but an Apple inspired one would probably encourage me to switch. But if you can't install new programs (and I don't just mean those pathetic java ones) then it's no use to me... unless the bundled apps are very good!
Amorya
I ment 300 dollars if you just buy the phone with nothing else. ok, there might be phones cheaper than that, but nobody wants them....
sure, it will most likely have GPRS, but as you already know, it is like comparing modem with adsl...
Originally posted by dividend
sure, you can get a 3G phone for 1? if you wish... but then it is bundled with a long subscription (1-3 years) and the phone is usually locked to an operator and you still have to pay for your subscription even if you change SIM cards. Moreover, subscription fees are often higher when bundled with a phone (like 10-20 ? more a month... for 12-36 months.
I ment 300 dollars if you just buy the phone with nothing else. ok, there might be phones cheaper than that, but nobody wants them....
sure, it will most likely have GPRS, but as you already know, it is like comparing modem with adsl...
My point about a pay as you go one still stands. Under £100 and no requirement to pay anything in the future. Just ditch the bundled sim card, get it unlocked for about a tenner, and you're set
Amorya
sure, you have a valid point in that it IS possible to get a 3G phone cheap. but then either it is butt ugly - or you have to deal around a little with services here and there. here phones are sold with a subscritpion that you will have to continue to pay for, irrespective what you do with the SIM card or how you unlock it. You will anyway have to pay 10-30? a month, depening on time perioed and so forth. so, sure, you get it for a small amount, but will have to continue to pay that sum anyway. i can, if i want to, go tomorrow morning and "buy" a 3G phone for 1? and pay 15? a month for 2-3 years. no problems with that... but....
not exactly the apple way
what I ment, and which does not contradict your point, was that it can be difficult to make a 3G phone with a lot of nice things inside and that looks good, is somewhat small and light and price straight from, say, AppleStore without any other fuss (just pop in your SIM card) for 300 dollars can be difficult. but then, if Apple does that.... there goes my (and yours!?) credit card
8)
The iPod remote at the moment does not work fully with the iPod photo, so sense would suggest it needs upgrading or replacing with an iPod photo compatible remote. This new remote together with new headphones could be the iPhone. The guts of the phone (motorola's side of it) would be in the remote control (phones can be very small these days, and without a battery, screen or keypad, it really could be tiny), the speaker and mic would be in the headphones, and the display and data input would be through the iPod screen and click wheel (the remote could also have a small 'caller id' screen).
Just a thought, what do ya think?
Apple needs to concentrate on a new device for the home and not worry about a market with about 1 billion different phones.
I can go with iTunes mobile. Makes sense.
The last thing they need to do is get in the cell phone business IMO.
Originally posted by dividend
what I ment, and which does not contradict your point, was that it can be difficult to make a 3G phone with a lot of nice things inside and that looks good, is somewhat small and light and price straight from, say, AppleStore without any other fuss (just pop in your SIM card) for 300 dollars can be difficult. but then, if Apple does that.... there goes my (and yours!?) credit card
8)
Yeah, that's true.
I was trying to point out that, at least in Britain, the cellphone market is very much geared against just selling you a phone... but there are a load of obvious workaround that everyone knows about. I think we're agreeing on the issue really - certainly if Apple did that my card would be out!
Amorya
Originally posted by Amorya
Yeah, that's true.
I was trying to point out that, at least in Britain, the cellphone market is very much geared against just selling you a phone... but there are a load of obvious workaround that everyone knows about. I think we're agreeing on the issue really - certainly if Apple did that my card would be out!
Amorya
8)
I hope it will be below 300 dollars. the thing is also, i already have a T610, and I am not really very happy with buying a GSM mobile, and the 3G phones available at the moment are not that exciting. Only Ericsson's work with iSync, and Z1010 is too big, the other one V800 is only for Vodaphone... so no real choices so far.