Now in all seriousness there is a bit of naivety going on here.
This Nick Plume character is no hero or great journalist and I can guarantee his site doesn't make anything through advertising. The internet just doesn't work like that anymore. You can't live off the revenue from internet ads. Most people who read tech boards are pretty savvy and probably already have their own favourite place to get hardware etc from. Many others now just filter out ads as they are a nuisance. They really aren't that many clueless internet newbies blindly clicking on ads and making a sale on these kind of niche Mac sites. All in all I would be suprised if his site made more than about 15 bucks a month through ads.
More importantly, thinksecret has been sailing way too close to the wind for some time now. It is by any description a gutter gossip site and Plume is nothing more than an obsessed fan who's taken his personal obsession with Apple way too far, notably through the very seedy 'Got Dirt ?/ Anon voicemail' thing on his site.
Although I for one am usually always on the side of the individual and free speech, and I actually think Apple have sometimes been too heavy handed in the past, I think they are bang on the buck here. I wish them every sucesss in tracking down the individual who leaked the relevant info and if neccessary removing thinksecret once and for all. It is unfortunately part of a handful of sites which has done more harm than good not just to Apple but to Mac users who deserve better.
If he's wrong, and someone is just yanking his chain, then he'll lose credibility and people will just dismiss any story from him as easily as they do stories from macosrumors or Grady's Powerpage.
No, if he's wrong (this time) Apple investors will lose their shirts.
Rubbish.
If he's wrong, all Apple had to do as soon as it hit the press was issue a statement refuting the rumour - as they have done with powerbook g5 and other stories, killing any possible stock rise.
And at any rate, people who have genuinely invested savings into on the basis of one article on a rumour site either
a) are compulsive gamblers
b) have money to burn
c) are deeply stupid and probably deserve to lose their money
WARNING - STOCKS MAY GO DOWN AS WELL AS UP
anyone who doesn't pay heed to this is treading a dangerous path.
Now in all seriousness there is a bit of naivety going on here.
This Nick Plume character is no hero or great journalist and I can guarantee his site doesn't make anything through advertising. The internet just doesn't work like that anymore. You can't live off the revenue from internet ads. Most people who read tech boards are pretty savvy and probably already have their own favourite place to get hardware etc from. Many others now just filter out ads as they are a nuisance. They really aren't that many clueless internet newbies blindly clicking on ads and making a sale on these kind of niche Mac sites. All in all I would be suprised if his site made more than about 15 bucks a month through ads.
More importantly, thinksecret has been sailing way too close to the wind for some time now. It is by any description a gutter gossip site and Plume is nothing more than an obsessed fan who's taken his personal obsession with Apple way too far, notably through the very seedy 'Got Dirt ?/ Anon voicemail' thing on his site.
Although I for one am usually always on the side of the individual and free speech, and I actually think Apple have sometimes been too heavy handed in the past, I think they are bang on the buck here. I wish them every sucesss in tracking down the individual who leaked the relevant info and if neccessary removing thinksecret once and for all. It is unfortunately part of a handful of sites which has done more harm than good not just to Apple but to Mac users who deserve better.
that was my 2c
Well, I think it is pretty good journalism to be honest. He's been on the money time and time again over the past years. A hero - maybe not, but I don't see that he's doing anything worng trechnically or ethically - he's catering to an area which the Mac community and the press as a whole are obviously very interested in. And there's nothing wrong with him making money out of - it's a reward for his skills. How is this any different from national newspapers in Britain and Europe being full of the latest rumour of which soccer player is going to be bought or sold to different clubs?
It's a company's responsibility to maintain it's own trade secrets and to encourage it's employees and partners to do the same. Given that Nick hasn't signed any NDA's and hasn't otherwise illegally obtained the information, he should be in the clear. This is good solid investigative journalism. It's not a gutter site - virtually all the stories he's published in recent memory have proved to be accurate. Now if you were talking about MacOSRumours...
Whether or not it is a good thing for the commiunity or Apple is another matter entirely.
Does anyone else find it strange that people are sticking up for Apple laying the smack down on rumour sites in the forum of a site called AppleInsider, one of the major Mac rumour sites on the web?...
Well, I think it is pretty good journalism to be honest. He's been on the money time and time again over the past years. A hero - maybe not, but I don't see that he's doing anything worng trechnically or ethically - he's catering to an area which the Mac community and the press as a whole are obviously very interested in. And there's nothing wrong with him making money out of - it's a reward for his skills. How is this any different from national newspapers in Britain and Europe being full of the latest rumour of which soccer player is going to be bought or sold to different clubs?
It's a company's responsibility to maintain it's own trade secrets and to encourage it's employees and partners to do the same. Given that Nick hasn't signed any NDA's and hasn't otherwise illegally obtained the information, he should be in the clear. This is good solid investigative journalism. It's not a gutter site - virtually all the stories he's published in recent memory have proved to be accurate. Now if you were talking about MacOSRumours...
Whether or not it is a good thing for the commiunity or Apple is another matter entirely.
Does anyone else find it strange that people are sticking up for Apple laying the smack down on rumour sites in the forum of a site called AppleInsider, one of the major Mac rumour sites on the web?...
Yes, possibly. I was thinking that myself as I wrote that. I've lurked out here a while and think this one of the more laid back/chiled out Mac boards around.
You know I like Apple hardware and guessing what's going to be in the next OS revision etc same as most Mac fans but there is difference between speculation and the insane fever and blood lust over new products whipped up by a couple of the sites out there.
I have to say I think Apple are actually partly responsible for that themselves and maybe that is the ironic part of this.
Anyway, the way thinksecret get it's stories is not too clear. They might be accurate but if they encouraging people to break their NDAs then I would tend to sympathize with Apple. That said, maybe Apple are deliberately leaking the info.
When it comes to scoops and journalism: if it came to light there was some serious employee abuse at a big tech company then that is a different matter, but the neverending drip-drip frenzy of gossip on real but unreleased or in-development products at any cost I really do believe is an unhealthy thing for everybody. Thinksecret and a couple of the others simply have no restraint about what they are doing, and don't seem to care about the consequences. I think that is a shame, I guess Apple does too.
You know I like Apple hardware and guessing what's going to be in the next OS revision etc same as most Mac fans but there is difference between speculation and the insane fever and blood lust over new products whipped up by a couple of the sites out there.
You're not wrong there, but i think that MacOSRumors is the biggest perpertrator of this
Quote:
Originally posted by rockwell_x Anyway, the way thinksecret get it's stories is not too clear. They might be accurate but if they encouraging people to break their NDAs then I would tend to sympathize with Apple. That said, maybe Apple are deliberately leaking the info.
When it comes to scoops and journalism: if it came to light there was some serious employee abuse at a big tech company then that is a different matter, but the neverending drip-drip frenzy of gossip on real but unreleased or in-development products at any cost I really do believe is an unhealthy thing for everybody. Thinksecret and a couple of the others simply have no restraint about what they are doing, and don't seem to care about the consequences. I think that is a shame, I guess Apple does too. [/B]
Well, it probably isn't healthy, but I think it's catering to a desire for information that is fostered by Apple's secrecy (along with the constant rumour mongering by a range of sites).
Really, Apple should be glad for the feverish interest and slavering - the day no one gives two figs about the latest Mac rumours, Apple is in serious trouble. The fanaticism and loyalty of Apple's customers has seen them through some tough times in the past. Yes, Think Secret may be making some money out of this, but I doubt it's a huge amount, and for the most part, what it really is is a fan site - Apple can do without persecuting its biggest supporters.
I believe as long as he obtained the information without breaking into Apple or Apple NDA people's offices either physcially or by hacking, someone else is to blame. The person that gave TS the information is the problem.
I don't believe TS should be forced to give that information up.
Politic and sports talk reporting are no different than what TS does. Rumors circulate all the time from "inside sources". Sometimes national defense is on the line and others it may be the super bowl title.
I believe that TS will come out of this ok and Apple gains no ground with TS.
Maybe Apple should start a white lie and trace the leak from the inside out.
Oh, and cool gut, if i had anything invested in Apple right now, I'd sell out of protest.
Well, slughead, I DO have something invested in Apple and I would sell in protest if they didn't diligently protect our intellectual property.
Given the longstanding tradition of Apple's carefully planned releases of information at regular intervals, Nick dePlume's publication of illegal information just before its probable disclosure does nothing but harm Apple.
All true Mac fans have known for months now that the SteveNote will be on Jan 11 so this dust-up will not generate any further interest among the faithful. It may get some casual "lookie-lou's" to take a look at the news from Jan 11, but that will not generally translate to sales.
I see three scenarios regarding TS's rumors (and let's focus on the "headless Mac") and what will transpire on Tuesday:
1) Think Secret was completely right. Steve's "one more thing" will become an exasperated "and without further ado...". What should be a bombshell, becomes an "I told you so."
2) Think Secret was completely wrong. Apple will be pilloried for being inept, elitist, or for being vindictive if it cancels the release to punish the rumor mill and those of us who read it.
3) Think Secret gets part of it right. Let's say the thing costs $699 or more and what if the capabilities are not as good as rumored. The analysts will bolt and Apple's stock price will plummet.
I'm looking forward to the SteveNote since history has shown that rumor sites are often wrong about things they do predict and miss others completely. Apple is currently benefitting from a wave of positive sentiment driven by the iPod and iTMS (although I am personally a fan of the good ol' Mac computers, I realize the new kids on the block are bringing fresh eyes and minds to consider the company) while Microsoft and the Wintel world is stagnating (and even showing decline), so this could be a turning point in the tech industry.
APPLE WILL RELEASE A 3GHZ G5 WITH A 6800 AND 9 GIGS OF RAM INSIDE OF A 3 INCH CUBE AND WILL SELL IT FOR $45, AT A 99% PROFIT MARGIN.
Please don't sue me if I'm wrong, Apple.
Not exactly, I think your source got the figures in the wrong place. My sources tell me it's actually a 45MHz 68000 based Mac they're releasing. It'll cost $3,000. The "cube" is actually 9", and it'll come with 3 *megs* of RAM.
<P>
The part about the 99% profit margin is correct, however.
Given the longstanding tradition of Apple's carefully planned releases of information at regular intervals, Nick dePlume's publication of illegal information just before its probable disclosure does nothing but harm Apple.
HOW? Are the competitors going to whip up a headless Mac clone, an office suite and a Flash iPod in less than a week?
Or do you mean to the share price? Sensible investors know better than to invest money based on rumor sites on the net.
Quote:
Originally posted by macFanDave
All true Mac fans have known for months now that the SteveNote will be on Jan 11 so this dust-up will not generate any further interest among the faithful. It may get some casual "lookie-lou's" to take a look at the news from Jan 11, but that will not generally translate to sales.
Are you kidding? Firstly, the purpose of these events isn't to preach to the already converted, it's to show off to the wider world what Apple are doing. They regularly receive more press in the mainstream than their 'market share' would have them be worth. Secondly, I can't imagine anything better than this furore to attract press from outside the faithful. Just look at where this story is being covered - The Register, The Telegraph, Reuters, CNet, BBC... That's more than 'some casual lookie-lous'. If Apple marketing can't turn that interest into sales then they need sacking.
Quote:
Originally posted by macFanDave
I see three scenarios regarding TS's rumors (and let's focus on the "headless Mac") and what will transpire on Tuesday:
1) Think Secret was completely right. Steve's "one more thing" will become an exasperated "and without further ado...". What should be a bombshell, becomes an "I told you so."
But that's kind of fleeting anyway. If the product is a bombshell then it'll be a bombshell.
Quote:
Originally posted by macFanDave
2) Think Secret was completely wrong. Apple will be pilloried for being inept, elitist, or for being vindictive if it cancels the release to punish the rumor mill and those of us who read it.
Huh? No, Think Secret will be pilloried for being inept and getting the story wrong. The problem here perhaps is that Apple has as much as admitted the story is true because of it's suit. But in anycase, if you're a rumour site, then unless your rumours turn out to be true, your cred drops dramatically.
Quote:
Originally posted by macFanDave
3) Think Secret gets part of it right. Let's say the thing costs $699 or more and what if the capabilities are not as good as rumored. The analysts will bolt and Apple's stock price will plummet.
If the product is as bad as that, then the stock price may be affected regardless of what a rumour site says. If an analyst is basing their market projections on just what Think Secret says then that's a pretty big gamble. If your analyst is doing that, then I'd change analysts to one that's not based in Las Vegas.
Quote:
Originally posted by macFanDave
I'm looking forward to the SteveNote since history has shown that rumor sites are often wrong about things they do predict and miss others completely. Apple is currently benefitting from a wave of positive sentiment driven by the iPod and iTMS (although I am personally a fan of the good ol' Mac computers, I realize the new kids on the block are bringing fresh eyes and minds to consider the company) while Microsoft and the Wintel world is stagnating (and even showing decline), so this could be a turning point in the tech industry. [/B]
Agreed, You said it - it's about products that people want, regardless of rumours.
3) Think Secret gets part of it right. Let's say the thing costs $699 or more and what if the capabilities are not as good as rumored. The analysts will bolt and Apple's stock price will plummet.
I'm thinking that's what we have here. The price of the device is probably still up in the air, but with a reasonably fast G4 taking up a fair proportion of the supposed $500 price (G5s are supposed to be cheaper than G4s, allegedly), and Apple never being a commodity player, it's hard to see the $500 price point being real.
More to the point, the rumour sites virtually never get the price correct anyway until a day or two before announcement, and when they do get it right more than 48 hours ahead it's because there was obvious logic behind the prices, not because anyone seriously thinks the sites got reliable information. The PowerMac G5 was supposed to cost the same as the G4s it replaced. The iPod Mini was supposed to cost $99 for the 2G model and $149-199 for the 4G model. etc. etc. There's a good reason for this: the people who submit the critical information are rarely going to know what the price is.
Look at this way: a huge number of people in Apple know the exact specs of the headless iMac. There's the people who designed it. There's the marketing people. There's most of the management. There's people in South East Asia who have actually seen the machine because it's coming off their assembly line. They know exactly what's in it.
But the number of people who know the price is tiny. It's Jobs, needless to say, and a group within marketing. And that's assuming the final price has been decided upon.
I think $499 would be a nice price for the new Mac. Realistically, I suspect the real price will be $699, $100 cheaper than the current eMac. If the eMac is to be replaced by a G5 version (or worse, a G5 + LCD combination), the eMac entry price will be raised, and the price of the Headless Mac could rise even higher.
As far as Apple suing TS goes - I don't think they should, I take the attitude "sucks to be Apple" for this. But I can see a million ways in which Apple may feel this damages them, even if the rumour is completely true:
- eMac sales are probably close to zero right now. Other low end products such as the iBook are probably hurting. Apple has been Osbourned.
- Apple's marketing has been screwed up. They wanted to make a big splash, now (as you point out) they're subject to expectations that will either be met (with people saying "Yeah. Great." rather than "Yeah! Great!"), or not.
- Each rumour puts Apple in an awkward legal situation where it is being asked questions that suddenly aquire extra significance. A slip up could mean an investors class-action lawsuit. This also has a deadening affect on marketing.
So I don't exactly blame them for being upset either.
If he's wrong, all Apple had to do as soon as it hit the press was issue a statement refuting the rumour - as they have done with powerbook g5 and other stories, killing any possible stock rise.
That situation was caused by the fact they put a G5 in the iMac, and wanted to make it clear it wasn't that easy for a Powerbook. I'm sure Apple is not interested in having to clean up messes caused by sites like Think Secret.
And at any rate, people who have genuinely invested savings into on the basis of one article on a rumour site either
a) are compulsive gamblers
b) have money to burn
c) are deeply stupid and probably deserve to lose their money
Are you kidding me? The entire market is practically based on speculation and rumour - not long term but short term it;s reality. If there is a rumour about a company, depending on the strength of that rumour the stock will move. Sure it's going to go up and down no matter what, but no one needs rumour sites adding fuel to the fire.
It's seems that the only argument that Apple is in the wrong is because Apple is rich, and Nick is not. I'm sorry- that's pretty weak defence.
So I guess what your saying, is that anyone who publishes something on the net automatically qualifies as a journalist?
...
Bye bye Nick.
Well, He hasn't just published something random on a little blog you know - he has been constantly digging up stories for quite a while - actually he's the closest to an "authority" when it comes to mac rumors. It doesn't take a degree in journalism to be a good journalist, just hard work.
He should be granted the same privileges as any journalist - the right not to disclose his sources, the right not to give in to pressure from the people (and companies) in power, etc.. That he is making money from publishing his stories is pretty normal for journalist you know..
I think $499 would be a nice price for the new Mac
The price seems a little high to me relative to the current eMac that does not sell very well at about $800, ususaly with free shipping. At around the price of an iPod ($250-300) they may have brought some people in but at $500 I think its a mistake.
Well, He hasn't just published something random on a little blog you know - he has been constantly digging up stories for quite a while - actually he's the closest to an "authority" when it comes to mac rumors. It doesn't take a degree in journalism to be a good journalist, just hard work.
He should be granted the same privileges as any journalist - the right not to disclose his sources, the right not to give in to pressure from the people (and companies) in power, etc.. That he is making money from publishing his stories is pretty normal for journalist you know..
That's the bottom line right there. If Reuters released the sub500 mac story things would be way different.
speaking of reuters, nick talked to reuters a few days ago in this article, in case anyone's interested
Well, He hasn't just published something random on a little blog you know - he has been constantly digging up stories for quite a while -
O.K. stop right there. He hasn't published ANY stories. He publishes trade secret information. And whoever said it was right, if it were Reuters who published it, Apple wouldn't do anything to them. But then again, Reuters doesn't have links on their site explaining how you can encrypt your information in order to send it to them and ask people to break their NDA's. That's because a company like Reuters has something called integrity.
O.K. stop right there. He hasn't published ANY stories. He publishes trade secret information.
Totally agree, what I find disconcerting is posts from certain individuals who think journalism, if you can even call it that, equals no responsibility. It makes me sick when individuals move forward with an action, in this case making a company's confidential information publicly known albeit possibly illegally from an employee, and then trying to hide under the shield of "freedom of the press." Mr. Nick made a CHOICE to post this information, so now it's time for him to grow a sack and face the consequences.
For those stating that they won't buy Apple products if Apple goes through with the suit, spare us the "little man" mantra, grow up and realize we live in a capitalistic society where confidential information like this is capital, that is, an asset or an advantage held in Apple's favor. So please, by all means go ahead and boycott Apple products. The least I can say is that it would be your loss.
Totally agree, what I find disconcerting is posts from certain individuals who think journalism, if you can even call it that, equals no responsibility.
(note that this response isn't just directed at you, marzetta)
Excuse me? Journalism is simply the act of writing something down.
You want to talk about responsibility? Integrity?
I've got 3 words for you: WILLIAM RANDOLPH HEARST.
Journalism has NEVER been as idolized as it is now. News papers ALWAYS printed lies, were guilty of libel, selectively reported and prioritized stories based on their own ideology, and committed plagiarism on a day-to-day basis.
Some of the first papers to come out of the printing press were to report propaganda and lies about wars.
Don't believe me? What about press embargoes? There's something that could change your mind. Not exactly a trustworthy practice, is it?
What's the difference between the New York Times and my blog? The medium, the liability, and the readership, my friend.
And further more, Reuters DOES have anonymous sources. ALL big news organizations do. And yes, people call them and violate their NDA's daily.
All that stuff you heard about the tobacco companies? Half of that was from people violating their NDAs and getting away with it. You didn't see the tobacco companies suing ABC for paying the guy to break his NDA, did you?
That doesn't mean that I don't read newspapers, just don't believe everything that gets printed or published.
And finally, and for the last time, upcoming products are NOT intellectual property! Given that the information given to Nick was a trade secret (which it might not be, technically), Nick would STILL not be the person culpable even if it was NOT given to him in good faith.
Mr. DePlume NEVER signed a NDA with Apple, and therefore CANNOT be held liable for the NDA being violated.
The NDA is simply a contract, facilitation of breach of contracts is not a crime.
The price seems a little high to me relative to the current eMac that does not sell very well at about $800, ususaly with free shipping. At around the price of an iPod ($250-300) they may have brought some people in but at $500 I think its a mistake.
The eMac doesn't sell because it comes with a great big monitor. Seriously. I know people who would look at the $800 system if they could slip it under the desk and use whatever monitor they chose (and monitors are things people buy themselves, it isn't a geek thing any more), but really wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole in its current form.
People think Apple put the monitor in as a feature, "It's all in one, no setting up!" It's not. It's the ball and chain.
I think this machine would sell like hot cakes at $500. It will probably actually sell in reasonable numbers at a price closer to $800. As long as we don't get a repeat of the Cube pricing fiasco, there's no reason to believe this will not succeed.
Comments
Now in all seriousness there is a bit of naivety going on here.
This Nick Plume character is no hero or great journalist and I can guarantee his site doesn't make anything through advertising. The internet just doesn't work like that anymore. You can't live off the revenue from internet ads. Most people who read tech boards are pretty savvy and probably already have their own favourite place to get hardware etc from. Many others now just filter out ads as they are a nuisance. They really aren't that many clueless internet newbies blindly clicking on ads and making a sale on these kind of niche Mac sites. All in all I would be suprised if his site made more than about 15 bucks a month through ads.
More importantly, thinksecret has been sailing way too close to the wind for some time now. It is by any description a gutter gossip site and Plume is nothing more than an obsessed fan who's taken his personal obsession with Apple way too far, notably through the very seedy 'Got Dirt ?/ Anon voicemail' thing on his site.
Although I for one am usually always on the side of the individual and free speech, and I actually think Apple have sometimes been too heavy handed in the past, I think they are bang on the buck here. I wish them every sucesss in tracking down the individual who leaked the relevant info and if neccessary removing thinksecret once and for all. It is unfortunately part of a handful of sites which has done more harm than good not just to Apple but to Mac users who deserve better.
that was my 2c
Quote:
How can you possibly know that?
If he's wrong, and someone is just yanking his chain, then he'll lose credibility and people will just dismiss any story from him as easily as they do stories from macosrumors or Grady's Powerpage.
No, if he's wrong (this time) Apple investors will lose their shirts.
Rubbish.
If he's wrong, all Apple had to do as soon as it hit the press was issue a statement refuting the rumour - as they have done with powerbook g5 and other stories, killing any possible stock rise.
And at any rate, people who have genuinely invested savings into on the basis of one article on a rumour site either
a) are compulsive gamblers
b) have money to burn
c) are deeply stupid and probably deserve to lose their money
WARNING - STOCKS MAY GO DOWN AS WELL AS UP
anyone who doesn't pay heed to this is treading a dangerous path.
Originally posted by rockwell_x
Hey Slughead that was pretty funny.
Now in all seriousness there is a bit of naivety going on here.
This Nick Plume character is no hero or great journalist and I can guarantee his site doesn't make anything through advertising. The internet just doesn't work like that anymore. You can't live off the revenue from internet ads. Most people who read tech boards are pretty savvy and probably already have their own favourite place to get hardware etc from. Many others now just filter out ads as they are a nuisance. They really aren't that many clueless internet newbies blindly clicking on ads and making a sale on these kind of niche Mac sites. All in all I would be suprised if his site made more than about 15 bucks a month through ads.
More importantly, thinksecret has been sailing way too close to the wind for some time now. It is by any description a gutter gossip site and Plume is nothing more than an obsessed fan who's taken his personal obsession with Apple way too far, notably through the very seedy 'Got Dirt ?/ Anon voicemail' thing on his site.
Although I for one am usually always on the side of the individual and free speech, and I actually think Apple have sometimes been too heavy handed in the past, I think they are bang on the buck here. I wish them every sucesss in tracking down the individual who leaked the relevant info and if neccessary removing thinksecret once and for all. It is unfortunately part of a handful of sites which has done more harm than good not just to Apple but to Mac users who deserve better.
that was my 2c
Well, I think it is pretty good journalism to be honest. He's been on the money time and time again over the past years. A hero - maybe not, but I don't see that he's doing anything worng trechnically or ethically - he's catering to an area which the Mac community and the press as a whole are obviously very interested in. And there's nothing wrong with him making money out of - it's a reward for his skills. How is this any different from national newspapers in Britain and Europe being full of the latest rumour of which soccer player is going to be bought or sold to different clubs?
It's a company's responsibility to maintain it's own trade secrets and to encourage it's employees and partners to do the same. Given that Nick hasn't signed any NDA's and hasn't otherwise illegally obtained the information, he should be in the clear. This is good solid investigative journalism. It's not a gutter site - virtually all the stories he's published in recent memory have proved to be accurate. Now if you were talking about MacOSRumours...
Whether or not it is a good thing for the commiunity or Apple is another matter entirely.
Does anyone else find it strange that people are sticking up for Apple laying the smack down on rumour sites in the forum of a site called AppleInsider, one of the major Mac rumour sites on the web?...
Originally posted by mortigi tempo
Well, I think it is pretty good journalism to be honest. He's been on the money time and time again over the past years. A hero - maybe not, but I don't see that he's doing anything worng trechnically or ethically - he's catering to an area which the Mac community and the press as a whole are obviously very interested in. And there's nothing wrong with him making money out of - it's a reward for his skills. How is this any different from national newspapers in Britain and Europe being full of the latest rumour of which soccer player is going to be bought or sold to different clubs?
It's a company's responsibility to maintain it's own trade secrets and to encourage it's employees and partners to do the same. Given that Nick hasn't signed any NDA's and hasn't otherwise illegally obtained the information, he should be in the clear. This is good solid investigative journalism. It's not a gutter site - virtually all the stories he's published in recent memory have proved to be accurate. Now if you were talking about MacOSRumours...
Whether or not it is a good thing for the commiunity or Apple is another matter entirely.
Does anyone else find it strange that people are sticking up for Apple laying the smack down on rumour sites in the forum of a site called AppleInsider, one of the major Mac rumour sites on the web?...
Yes, possibly. I was thinking that myself as I wrote that. I've lurked out here a while and think this one of the more laid back/chiled out Mac boards around.
You know I like Apple hardware and guessing what's going to be in the next OS revision etc same as most Mac fans but there is difference between speculation and the insane fever and blood lust over new products whipped up by a couple of the sites out there.
I have to say I think Apple are actually partly responsible for that themselves and maybe that is the ironic part of this.
Anyway, the way thinksecret get it's stories is not too clear. They might be accurate but if they encouraging people to break their NDAs then I would tend to sympathize with Apple. That said, maybe Apple are deliberately leaking the info.
When it comes to scoops and journalism: if it came to light there was some serious employee abuse at a big tech company then that is a different matter, but the neverending drip-drip frenzy of gossip on real but unreleased or in-development products at any cost I really do believe is an unhealthy thing for everybody. Thinksecret and a couple of the others simply have no restraint about what they are doing, and don't seem to care about the consequences. I think that is a shame, I guess Apple does too.
Originally posted by rockwell_x
You know I like Apple hardware and guessing what's going to be in the next OS revision etc same as most Mac fans but there is difference between speculation and the insane fever and blood lust over new products whipped up by a couple of the sites out there.
You're not wrong there, but i think that MacOSRumors is the biggest perpertrator of this
Originally posted by rockwell_x Anyway, the way thinksecret get it's stories is not too clear. They might be accurate but if they encouraging people to break their NDAs then I would tend to sympathize with Apple. That said, maybe Apple are deliberately leaking the info.
When it comes to scoops and journalism: if it came to light there was some serious employee abuse at a big tech company then that is a different matter, but the neverending drip-drip frenzy of gossip on real but unreleased or in-development products at any cost I really do believe is an unhealthy thing for everybody. Thinksecret and a couple of the others simply have no restraint about what they are doing, and don't seem to care about the consequences. I think that is a shame, I guess Apple does too. [/B]
Well, it probably isn't healthy, but I think it's catering to a desire for information that is fostered by Apple's secrecy (along with the constant rumour mongering by a range of sites).
Really, Apple should be glad for the feverish interest and slavering - the day no one gives two figs about the latest Mac rumours, Apple is in serious trouble. The fanaticism and loyalty of Apple's customers has seen them through some tough times in the past. Yes, Think Secret may be making some money out of this, but I doubt it's a huge amount, and for the most part, what it really is is a fan site - Apple can do without persecuting its biggest supporters.
I don't believe TS should be forced to give that information up.
Politic and sports talk reporting are no different than what TS does. Rumors circulate all the time from "inside sources". Sometimes national defense is on the line and others it may be the super bowl title.
I believe that TS will come out of this ok and Apple gains no ground with TS.
Maybe Apple should start a white lie and trace the leak from the inside out.
Eric
Originally posted by slughead
Oh, and cool gut, if i had anything invested in Apple right now, I'd sell out of protest.
Well, slughead, I DO have something invested in Apple and I would sell in protest if they didn't diligently protect our intellectual property.
Given the longstanding tradition of Apple's carefully planned releases of information at regular intervals, Nick dePlume's publication of illegal information just before its probable disclosure does nothing but harm Apple.
All true Mac fans have known for months now that the SteveNote will be on Jan 11 so this dust-up will not generate any further interest among the faithful. It may get some casual "lookie-lou's" to take a look at the news from Jan 11, but that will not generally translate to sales.
I see three scenarios regarding TS's rumors (and let's focus on the "headless Mac") and what will transpire on Tuesday:
1) Think Secret was completely right. Steve's "one more thing" will become an exasperated "and without further ado...". What should be a bombshell, becomes an "I told you so."
2) Think Secret was completely wrong. Apple will be pilloried for being inept, elitist, or for being vindictive if it cancels the release to punish the rumor mill and those of us who read it.
3) Think Secret gets part of it right. Let's say the thing costs $699 or more and what if the capabilities are not as good as rumored. The analysts will bolt and Apple's stock price will plummet.
I'm looking forward to the SteveNote since history has shown that rumor sites are often wrong about things they do predict and miss others completely. Apple is currently benefitting from a wave of positive sentiment driven by the iPod and iTMS (although I am personally a fan of the good ol' Mac computers, I realize the new kids on the block are bringing fresh eyes and minds to consider the company) while Microsoft and the Wintel world is stagnating (and even showing decline), so this could be a turning point in the tech industry.
Originally posted by slughead
My sources say....
APPLE WILL RELEASE A 3GHZ G5 WITH A 6800 AND 9 GIGS OF RAM INSIDE OF A 3 INCH CUBE AND WILL SELL IT FOR $45, AT A 99% PROFIT MARGIN.
Please don't sue me if I'm wrong, Apple.
Not exactly, I think your source got the figures in the wrong place. My sources tell me it's actually a 45MHz 68000 based Mac they're releasing. It'll cost $3,000. The "cube" is actually 9", and it'll come with 3 *megs* of RAM.
<P>
The part about the 99% profit margin is correct, however.
Originally posted by macFanDave
Given the longstanding tradition of Apple's carefully planned releases of information at regular intervals, Nick dePlume's publication of illegal information just before its probable disclosure does nothing but harm Apple.
HOW? Are the competitors going to whip up a headless Mac clone, an office suite and a Flash iPod in less than a week?
Or do you mean to the share price? Sensible investors know better than to invest money based on rumor sites on the net.
Originally posted by macFanDave
All true Mac fans have known for months now that the SteveNote will be on Jan 11 so this dust-up will not generate any further interest among the faithful. It may get some casual "lookie-lou's" to take a look at the news from Jan 11, but that will not generally translate to sales.
Are you kidding? Firstly, the purpose of these events isn't to preach to the already converted, it's to show off to the wider world what Apple are doing. They regularly receive more press in the mainstream than their 'market share' would have them be worth. Secondly, I can't imagine anything better than this furore to attract press from outside the faithful. Just look at where this story is being covered - The Register, The Telegraph, Reuters, CNet, BBC... That's more than 'some casual lookie-lous'. If Apple marketing can't turn that interest into sales then they need sacking.
Originally posted by macFanDave
I see three scenarios regarding TS's rumors (and let's focus on the "headless Mac") and what will transpire on Tuesday:
1) Think Secret was completely right. Steve's "one more thing" will become an exasperated "and without further ado...". What should be a bombshell, becomes an "I told you so."
But that's kind of fleeting anyway. If the product is a bombshell then it'll be a bombshell.
Originally posted by macFanDave
2) Think Secret was completely wrong. Apple will be pilloried for being inept, elitist, or for being vindictive if it cancels the release to punish the rumor mill and those of us who read it.
Huh? No, Think Secret will be pilloried for being inept and getting the story wrong. The problem here perhaps is that Apple has as much as admitted the story is true because of it's suit. But in anycase, if you're a rumour site, then unless your rumours turn out to be true, your cred drops dramatically.
Originally posted by macFanDave
3) Think Secret gets part of it right. Let's say the thing costs $699 or more and what if the capabilities are not as good as rumored. The analysts will bolt and Apple's stock price will plummet.
If the product is as bad as that, then the stock price may be affected regardless of what a rumour site says. If an analyst is basing their market projections on just what Think Secret says then that's a pretty big gamble. If your analyst is doing that, then I'd change analysts to one that's not based in Las Vegas.
Originally posted by macFanDave
I'm looking forward to the SteveNote since history has shown that rumor sites are often wrong about things they do predict and miss others completely. Apple is currently benefitting from a wave of positive sentiment driven by the iPod and iTMS (although I am personally a fan of the good ol' Mac computers, I realize the new kids on the block are bringing fresh eyes and minds to consider the company) while Microsoft and the Wintel world is stagnating (and even showing decline), so this could be a turning point in the tech industry. [/B]
Agreed, You said it - it's about products that people want, regardless of rumours.
Originally posted by macFanDave
3) Think Secret gets part of it right. Let's say the thing costs $699 or more and what if the capabilities are not as good as rumored. The analysts will bolt and Apple's stock price will plummet.
I'm thinking that's what we have here. The price of the device is probably still up in the air, but with a reasonably fast G4 taking up a fair proportion of the supposed $500 price (G5s are supposed to be cheaper than G4s, allegedly), and Apple never being a commodity player, it's hard to see the $500 price point being real.
More to the point, the rumour sites virtually never get the price correct anyway until a day or two before announcement, and when they do get it right more than 48 hours ahead it's because there was obvious logic behind the prices, not because anyone seriously thinks the sites got reliable information. The PowerMac G5 was supposed to cost the same as the G4s it replaced. The iPod Mini was supposed to cost $99 for the 2G model and $149-199 for the 4G model. etc. etc. There's a good reason for this: the people who submit the critical information are rarely going to know what the price is.
Look at this way: a huge number of people in Apple know the exact specs of the headless iMac. There's the people who designed it. There's the marketing people. There's most of the management. There's people in South East Asia who have actually seen the machine because it's coming off their assembly line. They know exactly what's in it.
But the number of people who know the price is tiny. It's Jobs, needless to say, and a group within marketing. And that's assuming the final price has been decided upon.
I think $499 would be a nice price for the new Mac. Realistically, I suspect the real price will be $699, $100 cheaper than the current eMac. If the eMac is to be replaced by a G5 version (or worse, a G5 + LCD combination), the eMac entry price will be raised, and the price of the Headless Mac could rise even higher.
As far as Apple suing TS goes - I don't think they should, I take the attitude "sucks to be Apple" for this. But I can see a million ways in which Apple may feel this damages them, even if the rumour is completely true:
- eMac sales are probably close to zero right now. Other low end products such as the iBook are probably hurting. Apple has been Osbourned.
- Apple's marketing has been screwed up. They wanted to make a big splash, now (as you point out) they're subject to expectations that will either be met (with people saying "Yeah. Great." rather than "Yeah! Great!"), or not.
- Each rumour puts Apple in an awkward legal situation where it is being asked questions that suddenly aquire extra significance. A slip up could mean an investors class-action lawsuit. This also has a deadening affect on marketing.
So I don't exactly blame them for being upset either.
Originally posted by mortigi tempo
Rubbish.
If he's wrong, all Apple had to do as soon as it hit the press was issue a statement refuting the rumour - as they have done with powerbook g5 and other stories, killing any possible stock rise.
That situation was caused by the fact they put a G5 in the iMac, and wanted to make it clear it wasn't that easy for a Powerbook. I'm sure Apple is not interested in having to clean up messes caused by sites like Think Secret.
And at any rate, people who have genuinely invested savings into on the basis of one article on a rumour site either
a) are compulsive gamblers
b) have money to burn
c) are deeply stupid and probably deserve to lose their money
Are you kidding me? The entire market is practically based on speculation and rumour - not long term but short term it;s reality. If there is a rumour about a company, depending on the strength of that rumour the stock will move. Sure it's going to go up and down no matter what, but no one needs rumour sites adding fuel to the fire.
It's seems that the only argument that Apple is in the wrong is because Apple is rich, and Nick is not. I'm sorry- that's pretty weak defence.
So I guess what your saying, is that anyone who publishes something on the net automatically qualifies as a journalist?
...
Bye bye Nick.
Well, He hasn't just published something random on a little blog you know - he has been constantly digging up stories for quite a while - actually he's the closest to an "authority" when it comes to mac rumors. It doesn't take a degree in journalism to be a good journalist, just hard work.
He should be granted the same privileges as any journalist - the right not to disclose his sources, the right not to give in to pressure from the people (and companies) in power, etc.. That he is making money from publishing his stories is pretty normal for journalist you know..
I think $499 would be a nice price for the new Mac
The price seems a little high to me relative to the current eMac that does not sell very well at about $800, ususaly with free shipping. At around the price of an iPod ($250-300) they may have brought some people in but at $500 I think its a mistake.
Originally posted by Token
Well, He hasn't just published something random on a little blog you know - he has been constantly digging up stories for quite a while - actually he's the closest to an "authority" when it comes to mac rumors. It doesn't take a degree in journalism to be a good journalist, just hard work.
He should be granted the same privileges as any journalist - the right not to disclose his sources, the right not to give in to pressure from the people (and companies) in power, etc.. That he is making money from publishing his stories is pretty normal for journalist you know..
That's the bottom line right there. If Reuters released the sub500 mac story things would be way different.
speaking of reuters, nick talked to reuters a few days ago in this article, in case anyone's interested
Originally posted by Token
Well, He hasn't just published something random on a little blog you know - he has been constantly digging up stories for quite a while -
O.K. stop right there. He hasn't published ANY stories. He publishes trade secret information. And whoever said it was right, if it were Reuters who published it, Apple wouldn't do anything to them. But then again, Reuters doesn't have links on their site explaining how you can encrypt your information in order to send it to them and ask people to break their NDA's. That's because a company like Reuters has something called integrity.
Totally agree, what I find disconcerting is posts from certain individuals who think journalism, if you can even call it that, equals no responsibility. It makes me sick when individuals move forward with an action, in this case making a company's confidential information publicly known albeit possibly illegally from an employee, and then trying to hide under the shield of "freedom of the press." Mr. Nick made a CHOICE to post this information, so now it's time for him to grow a sack and face the consequences.
For those stating that they won't buy Apple products if Apple goes through with the suit, spare us the "little man" mantra, grow up and realize we live in a capitalistic society where confidential information like this is capital, that is, an asset or an advantage held in Apple's favor. So please, by all means go ahead and boycott Apple products. The least I can say is that it would be your loss.
My 2 cents.
Originally posted by the cool gut
O.K. stop right there. He hasn't published ANY stories. He publishes trade secret information.
Well, to be fair, he does or has published other matters in other arenas: http://www.deplume.com/.
Originally posted by marzetta7
Totally agree, what I find disconcerting is posts from certain individuals who think journalism, if you can even call it that, equals no responsibility.
(note that this response isn't just directed at you, marzetta)
Excuse me? Journalism is simply the act of writing something down.
You want to talk about responsibility? Integrity?
I've got 3 words for you: WILLIAM RANDOLPH HEARST.
Journalism has NEVER been as idolized as it is now. News papers ALWAYS printed lies, were guilty of libel, selectively reported and prioritized stories based on their own ideology, and committed plagiarism on a day-to-day basis.
Some of the first papers to come out of the printing press were to report propaganda and lies about wars.
Don't believe me? What about press embargoes? There's something that could change your mind. Not exactly a trustworthy practice, is it?
What's the difference between the New York Times and my blog? The medium, the liability, and the readership, my friend.
And further more, Reuters DOES have anonymous sources. ALL big news organizations do. And yes, people call them and violate their NDA's daily.
All that stuff you heard about the tobacco companies? Half of that was from people violating their NDAs and getting away with it. You didn't see the tobacco companies suing ABC for paying the guy to break his NDA, did you?
That doesn't mean that I don't read newspapers, just don't believe everything that gets printed or published.
And finally, and for the last time, upcoming products are NOT intellectual property! Given that the information given to Nick was a trade secret (which it might not be, technically), Nick would STILL not be the person culpable even if it was NOT given to him in good faith.
Mr. DePlume NEVER signed a NDA with Apple, and therefore CANNOT be held liable for the NDA being violated.
The NDA is simply a contract, facilitation of breach of contracts is not a crime.
Originally posted by SiennaBuyer
The price seems a little high to me relative to the current eMac that does not sell very well at about $800, ususaly with free shipping. At around the price of an iPod ($250-300) they may have brought some people in but at $500 I think its a mistake.
The eMac doesn't sell because it comes with a great big monitor. Seriously. I know people who would look at the $800 system if they could slip it under the desk and use whatever monitor they chose (and monitors are things people buy themselves, it isn't a geek thing any more), but really wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole in its current form.
People think Apple put the monitor in as a feature, "It's all in one, no setting up!" It's not. It's the ball and chain.
I think this machine would sell like hot cakes at $500. It will probably actually sell in reasonable numbers at a price closer to $800. As long as we don't get a repeat of the Cube pricing fiasco, there's no reason to believe this will not succeed.