i still think an Art (?) program and a spreadsheet program (TS's unconfirmed Cells?) are waiting in the wings to complete iWork '06, but they need some of the technologies in Tiger to make 'em work, and for that, they need to have a lot of people out there using Tiger first.
my only disappointment is that we're probably looking at another YEAR before those apps actually hit the market.
my "dream" is that they offer a new app: a mix of database/excel/statistics.
keynote competes quite hand on with powerpoint
pages is not really a competitor to word; it is a different type of app
- the missing would then be something that does a bit of excel and a bit of filemaker and a bit of SPSS. This would not be a competitor to excel, filemaker or spss but something inbetween. there are no cheap statictical apps for mac, and we don't need an othercompetitor to excel, that one is good
the more i think about it, the more i think that pages is not meant as a competitor to word, but to the even-more-horrendous ms publisher. if they could just spruce up the textedit interface a little, that would be a halfway decent word processing app. heck, i just realized it saves text styles the other day. talk about undocumented goodness...
I really don't see Pages threatening Word, either. At least, not yet.
This just in, from the applescript-users list: Pages has no support for word count, and no scripting dictionary. Scratch one potential user (I can still use it, though), unless I can get a Service going to pick up the slack.
As for separate apps vs. integration, the whole genius of OS X, which it inherited from NeXTStep, is that the distinction is moot: It's easy to get separate apps to work together closely. This is how iLife works, and Mail/Address Book/iCal. The only reason to actually pull multiple applications into one big executable is to compensate for a small memory footprint, primitive interapp communication, and/or poor multitasking support. (The other reason is that you have a vast legacy codebase dating from those days, and it's big and ugly and entrenched enough that you're terrified of updating or rebuilding it.) But on a modern OS, there's really no reason to force the issue like that. As-if integration of separate apps is better for a great many reasons.
For two years, I have called (or begged) for Adobe to introduce a consumer Elements version of InDesign that our company could give to ad sales reps in the field.
It would have cost very little to strip a few high end features out of the main package. And they'd still be known as THE publishing powerhouse on the Mac, if not PC. Instead, Publisher reigns on Windows and now Pages will do the same on the Mac.
Steve used this quote several times during the iWork section of the keynote. So, yeah, I think they have more stuff planned for the future. As rok suggested, hopefully a spreadsheet, and maybe a drawing package, or possibly something else that no one has thought of.
Steve used this quote several times during the iWork section of the keynote. So, yeah, I think they have more stuff planned for the future. As rok suggested, hopefully a spreadsheet, and maybe a drawing package, or possibly something else that no one has thought of.
If they are building a successor to Appleworks then wouldn't they have to bundle it with new Macs? I can't see them selling macs without an Appleworks type bundle included. Thoughts?
If they are building a successor to Appleworks then wouldn't they have to bundle it with new Macs? I can't see them selling macs without an Appleworks type bundle included. Thoughts?
Interesting point... But I don't see that they would have to bundle it with new Mac's just because historically they had bundled AppleWorks. AppleWorks was clearly a consumer oriented product (hence it's inclusion in the iMac/eMac/iBook rather than with the PowerMca/PowerBook range), whereas I think iWork is aimed a bit higher (despite being the 'successor' to AppleWorks), so I guess they figure they can charge for it. Plus Keynote is part of iWork, and they have always charged for that. Beyond that, I have no idea, so I'll let someone who knows more about this tham I do make a comment .
my "dream" is that they offer a new app: a mix of database/excel/statistics.
keynote competes quite hand on with powerpoint
pages is not really a competitor to word; it is a different type of app
- the missing would then be something that does a bit of excel and a bit of filemaker and a bit of SPSS. This would not be a competitor to excel, filemaker or spss but something inbetween. there are no cheap statictical apps for mac, and we don't need an othercompetitor to excel, that one is good
I can envision a program called Data or Folio or something like that.
Easiest thing would be if they took Filemaker Pro and stripped it down. Provide a simple interface that lets you build a database with simply point-and-click use, and a template that essentially creates a Spreadsheet 'database' file. Since spreadsheets and databases are similar beasts, it's really not that far to stretch. Both store data, perform calculations and organize the resulting data... heck, Excel even has database functions built in, and FMP can do most calculations Excel does.
All one has to do is create an interface for a stripped-down "Filemaker Light" that lets you do Excel-like 'cell' selection when using the spreadsheet template, and more standard database layout for other files.
I don't get how this ends up good either way. It doesn't totally replace or even update Appleworks. Mac users are still begging for replacments in draw module, spreadsheet, database and even with the wordprocessing module there are loads of features missing. (like something as stupid as a word count)
How is this a good thing? Appleworks was also very frame based and integrated. If I have to open an entirely seperate program, create a spreadsheet and then use that program to drop it into say, Pages, how is that any more sophsicated and less wonky than Microsoft Office?
I really feel like Apple has screwed the pooch here. When iLife was imcomplete it was free and built a base and feedback channel that got the apps good enough that people no longer mind paying for them. Apple seems to be going in the opposite direction here. They are burning up the infrastructure associated with Appleworks. (especially in education) Replacing it with 2/5's of a solution that is missing major features and lastly charging for it and not including it in new machines to boot.
I smell a double disaster. Appleworks gets torched without a real replacement, and iWork gets sent to limbo land because of lack of enthusiam and improvement.
No wonder Microsoft feels they have nothing to fear. If anything people will have to start using Office more.
I don't get how this ends up good either way. It doesn't totally replace or even update Appleworks. Mac users are still begging for replacments in draw module, spreadsheet, database and even with the wordprocessing module there are loads of features missing. (like something as stupid as a word count)
How is this a good thing? Appleworks was also very frame based and integrated. If I have to open an entirely seperate program, create a spreadsheet and then use that program to drop it into say, Pages, how is that any more sophsicated and less wonky than Microsoft Office?
I really feel like Apple has screwed the pooch here. When iLife was imcomplete it was free and built a base and feedback channel that got the apps good enough that people no longer mind paying for them. Apple seems to be going in the opposite direction here. They are burning up the infrastructure associated with Appleworks. (especially in education) Replacing it with 2/5's of a solution that is missing major features and lastly charging for it and not including it in new machines to boot.
I smell a double disaster. Appleworks gets torched without a real replacement, and iWork gets sent to limbo land because of lack of enthusiam and improvement.
No wonder Microsoft feels they have nothing to fear. If anything people will have to start using Office more.
At a time when the Mac mini is quite appealing to SOHO businesses, there's one glaring problem: You can't move a business to half an Office Suite.
I think iWork will do alright, if only because Keynote 2 is worth $79. and that makes Pages essentially free.
Also, the Pages toolbar may look sparse on the Apple screen shots, but if you want a full toolbar - you can have one.
But the lack of Cells or Data or Sheets or whatever-Jobs-decides-to-call-it is a huge deal killer for the SOHO market and will affect switchers.
Steve's got to learn that not everything has to be a big surprise with a One More Thing intro. Business needs time to plan for things, especially small business. He could have said that they were working on a spreadsheet and database portion which is Tiger dependent, and it would be a free download for iWork buyers after Tiger ships. That would actually boost sales, since users on older equipment would look at upgrades to newer machines that can run Tiger.
I know MWSF '06 is the next major rollout time, but keeping AppleWorks at the front of the shelf for a whole year can't possibly be a realistic option.
Comments
my only disappointment is that we're probably looking at another YEAR before those apps actually hit the market.
Originally posted by Aquatic
I think this is a mistake. Apple is going to end up making every piece of software in my Dock. Is this good?
Nor do I want greedy/jealous 3rd parties hindering Apple from developing great software for it's own computers.
keynote competes quite hand on with powerpoint
pages is not really a competitor to word; it is a different type of app
- the missing would then be something that does a bit of excel and a bit of filemaker and a bit of SPSS. This would not be a competitor to excel, filemaker or spss but something inbetween. there are no cheap statictical apps for mac, and we don't need an othercompetitor to excel, that one is good
This just in, from the applescript-users list: Pages has no support for word count, and no scripting dictionary. Scratch one potential user (I can still use it, though), unless I can get a Service going to pick up the slack.
As for separate apps vs. integration, the whole genius of OS X, which it inherited from NeXTStep, is that the distinction is moot: It's easy to get separate apps to work together closely. This is how iLife works, and Mail/Address Book/iCal. The only reason to actually pull multiple applications into one big executable is to compensate for a small memory footprint, primitive interapp communication, and/or poor multitasking support. (The other reason is that you have a vast legacy codebase dating from those days, and it's big and ugly and entrenched enough that you're terrified of updating or rebuilding it.) But on a modern OS, there's really no reason to force the issue like that. As-if integration of separate apps is better for a great many reasons.
For two years, I have called (or begged) for Adobe to introduce a consumer Elements version of InDesign that our company could give to ad sales reps in the field.
It would have cost very little to strip a few high end features out of the main package. And they'd still be known as THE publishing powerhouse on the Mac, if not PC. Instead, Publisher reigns on Windows and now Pages will do the same on the Mac.
They have no-one to blame for this by themselves.
Building a successor to AppleWorks...
Steve used this quote several times during the iWork section of the keynote. So, yeah, I think they have more stuff planned for the future. As rok suggested, hopefully a spreadsheet, and maybe a drawing package, or possibly something else that no one has thought of.
Originally posted by Dave Abrey
Steve used this quote several times during the iWork section of the keynote. So, yeah, I think they have more stuff planned for the future. As rok suggested, hopefully a spreadsheet, and maybe a drawing package, or possibly something else that no one has thought of.
If they are building a successor to Appleworks then wouldn't they have to bundle it with new Macs? I can't see them selling macs without an Appleworks type bundle included. Thoughts?
Originally posted by Proxy
If they are building a successor to Appleworks then wouldn't they have to bundle it with new Macs? I can't see them selling macs without an Appleworks type bundle included. Thoughts?
Interesting point... But I don't see that they would have to bundle it with new Mac's just because historically they had bundled AppleWorks. AppleWorks was clearly a consumer oriented product (hence it's inclusion in the iMac/eMac/iBook rather than with the PowerMca/PowerBook range), whereas I think iWork is aimed a bit higher (despite being the 'successor' to AppleWorks), so I guess they figure they can charge for it. Plus Keynote is part of iWork, and they have always charged for that. Beyond that, I have no idea, so I'll let someone who knows more about this tham I do make a comment
Dave.
Originally posted by dividend
my "dream" is that they offer a new app: a mix of database/excel/statistics.
keynote competes quite hand on with powerpoint
pages is not really a competitor to word; it is a different type of app
- the missing would then be something that does a bit of excel and a bit of filemaker and a bit of SPSS. This would not be a competitor to excel, filemaker or spss but something inbetween. there are no cheap statictical apps for mac, and we don't need an othercompetitor to excel, that one is good
I can envision a program called Data or Folio or something like that.
Easiest thing would be if they took Filemaker Pro and stripped it down. Provide a simple interface that lets you build a database with simply point-and-click use, and a template that essentially creates a Spreadsheet 'database' file. Since spreadsheets and databases are similar beasts, it's really not that far to stretch. Both store data, perform calculations and organize the resulting data... heck, Excel even has database functions built in, and FMP can do most calculations Excel does.
All one has to do is create an interface for a stripped-down "Filemaker Light" that lets you do Excel-like 'cell' selection when using the spreadsheet template, and more standard database layout for other files.
How is this a good thing? Appleworks was also very frame based and integrated. If I have to open an entirely seperate program, create a spreadsheet and then use that program to drop it into say, Pages, how is that any more sophsicated and less wonky than Microsoft Office?
I really feel like Apple has screwed the pooch here. When iLife was imcomplete it was free and built a base and feedback channel that got the apps good enough that people no longer mind paying for them. Apple seems to be going in the opposite direction here. They are burning up the infrastructure associated with Appleworks. (especially in education) Replacing it with 2/5's of a solution that is missing major features and lastly charging for it and not including it in new machines to boot.
I smell a double disaster. Appleworks gets torched without a real replacement, and iWork gets sent to limbo land because of lack of enthusiam and improvement.
No wonder Microsoft feels they have nothing to fear. If anything people will have to start using Office more.
Sad.
Nick
Originally posted by trumptman
I don't get how this ends up good either way. It doesn't totally replace or even update Appleworks. Mac users are still begging for replacments in draw module, spreadsheet, database and even with the wordprocessing module there are loads of features missing. (like something as stupid as a word count)
How is this a good thing? Appleworks was also very frame based and integrated. If I have to open an entirely seperate program, create a spreadsheet and then use that program to drop it into say, Pages, how is that any more sophsicated and less wonky than Microsoft Office?
I really feel like Apple has screwed the pooch here. When iLife was imcomplete it was free and built a base and feedback channel that got the apps good enough that people no longer mind paying for them. Apple seems to be going in the opposite direction here. They are burning up the infrastructure associated with Appleworks. (especially in education) Replacing it with 2/5's of a solution that is missing major features and lastly charging for it and not including it in new machines to boot.
I smell a double disaster. Appleworks gets torched without a real replacement, and iWork gets sent to limbo land because of lack of enthusiam and improvement.
No wonder Microsoft feels they have nothing to fear. If anything people will have to start using Office more.
Sad.
Nick
2006 Stevenote......
iWork '06: keynote3, pages2, cells, expression (painting)
Priced at $99.
Shipping free with all macs.
Appleworks is declared fully dead.
At a time when the Mac mini is quite appealing to SOHO businesses, there's one glaring problem: You can't move a business to half an Office Suite.
I think iWork will do alright, if only because Keynote 2 is worth $79. and that makes Pages essentially free.
Also, the Pages toolbar may look sparse on the Apple screen shots, but if you want a full toolbar - you can have one.
But the lack of Cells or Data or Sheets or whatever-Jobs-decides-to-call-it is a huge deal killer for the SOHO market and will affect switchers.
Steve's got to learn that not everything has to be a big surprise with a One More Thing intro. Business needs time to plan for things, especially small business. He could have said that they were working on a spreadsheet and database portion which is Tiger dependent, and it would be a free download for iWork buyers after Tiger ships. That would actually boost sales, since users on older equipment would look at upgrades to newer machines that can run Tiger.
I know MWSF '06 is the next major rollout time, but keeping AppleWorks at the front of the shelf for a whole year can't possibly be a realistic option.
Please Steve, say it's not so.