Whats the point of HD editing if you can't burn HD-DVD's??

johnsocal

I think its cool that Jobs was showing off Sony's HD camera and that Mac's can edit HD but what's the point if Macs can't burn HD-DVD or Blu-rays?



I guess a person could connect a mac-mini up to their HDTV as a entertainment server then transfer the final-edited HD file from their main mac to the Mac mini to play on the HDTV. Maybe even use their ipod as a HD-film storage device and then plug it into the Mac Mini (entertainment server) thats hooked up to the HDTV to watch it.



Does anyone know when Macs will have he ability to burn HD-DVD's or Blu-rays? I would assume with all love-festing going at Macworld between Steve Jobs and the prez of Sony that Mac will eventually use blu-ray tech.



I guess if even macs did burn blu-rays I would still need to shell-out nearly a $1000 for a blu-ray player so maybe the mac mini being an entertainment server might be a cheaper way to go

ebby

Jobs said this was the year of HD, so I guess there is still a little more time left.



I don't think either HD DVD format is 100% official yet but when that happens, HD DVD players will come out, then HD DVD movies, then HD DVD burners.



Consumer HDTV content is just emerging and I was surprised iMovie can handle it at all. What you want to do is centered in Job's cross-hairs and all you need is time and patience.

nebagakid

because you want kick ass high quality ass video, and what was the point of editing DV in 1999 when i didn't have DVD burner? because it was high quality that could be outputted to video and still looked fine.

ipodandimac

Quote:

Originally posted by johnsocal

I think its cool that Jobs was showing off Sony's HD camera and that Mac's can edit HD but what's the point if Macs can't burn HD-DVD or Blu-rays?



I guess a person could connect a mac-mini up to their HDTV as a entertainment server then transfer the final-edited HD file from their main mac to the Mac mini to play on the HDTV. Maybe even use their ipod as a HD-film storage device and then plug it into the Mac Mini (entertainment server) thats hooked up to the HDTV to watch it.



Does anyone know when Macs will have he ability to burn HD-DVD's or Blu-rays? I would assume with all love-festing going at Macworld between Steve Jobs and the prez of Sony that Mac will eventually use blu-ray tech.



I guess if even macs did burn blu-rays I would still need to shell-out nearly a $1000 for a blu-ray player so maybe the mac mini being an entertainment server might be a cheaper way to go

i totally agree with you. unfortunatley a lot of people just think 'oh i can make hd dvds now hooray', but that obviously isnt the case. of course with FCP, pros are using the HD editing but outputting to HD tapes for actual HD broadcast. as far as iMovie goes, i guess its more about having a 16:9 movie than a hi def movie.

johnsocal

I currently record HD programing with my cable companies 80gig HD receiver/DVR and its not a bad deal for only an extra $10 a month.



It would be cool to connect Sony's HD camera up to a mini mac that connected to my HDTVto store my homemade HD content.



Or until Apple releases a video-enable Airport using Broadcom technology that should be out by next years macworld.



Since Broadcom already supplies technology for Apple existing Airport the following press release from last week is very interesting:





Among the advances in technology singled out by Broadcom Corp. (BRCM) was the wireless networking technology known as 802.11N. Standards for the faster wireless, or WiFi, technology should be agreed upon by mid year, and chips for products should begin reaching the market by the end of the year, said Broadcom Chairman Henry Samueli.



Samueli said 802.11N will be the first WiFi technology to comfortably handle multimedia content, such as video.



The Mpeg 4 technology for transmitting video across the Internet and into machines also will begin to find its way into products during the second half of 2005. "That's a big thing for the industry," said Samueli. Mpeg 4 will improve network and machine performance because it compressed video into smaller parcels, improving network performance two to three times.

brussell

DIdn't Jobs mention during the keynote that you would output it back to the camera for playback? But yeah, HD DVD creation will happen soon. Isn't one of the nice things about Blu-Ray that the recorders and players have happened simultaneously?

johnsocal

This news clip from a month ago it appears to related to what we are talking about:



from : http://broadcom.com/press/release.p...amp;source=home



Broadcom Announces Next-Generation Advanced Video Compression Chip Supporting the H.264 Standard for High Definition Consumer Video Applications

_

New Video Processor Chip Allows Manufacturers to Economically Bring to Market Next-Generation Set-Top Boxes, DVD Players and Digital Television Entertainment Systems With Advanced Video Compression Technology by Early 2005



IRVINE, Calif., Dec 6, 2004 /PRNewswire-FirstCall via COMTEX/ -- Broadcom Corporation (Nasdaq: BRCM), a leading provider of highly integrated semiconductor solutions enabling broadband communications, today announced an advanced video decoder/audio processor chip that supports H.264 advanced video compression technology. An essential requirement for next-generation video/audio consumer products, the H.264-based compression technology (also known as MPEG-4 Part 10/Advanced Video Coding (AVC)) significantly reduces the bandwidth required to deliver high definition (HD) and digital video content over service operator networks and to store HD media on conventional DVDs and system hard disks.

nebagakid

i am betting that Blu-Ray will be Apple's choice of format over HD-DVD

sunilraman

Quote:

Originally posted by ipodandimac

as far as iMovie goes, i guess its more about having a 16:9 movie than a hi def movie.

Hi AppleInsiders, you know I was thinking, why is this the year of HD, and there is a reason why Jobs and Sony dude nearly ended up giving each other bl...... whoa, family thread... :-)



yes, most DV cameras don't do 16:9 properly. they do this by cropping, meaning your 16:9 DV stream has less information in it than the 4:3 stream



8) also, like nebagakid mentioned with grauitious use of the word 'ass',

even if you are 'only' making a DVD,

shooting at hi-def will give you a high quality looking DVD when you downsample your final output.



the resolution of film is 4-5 times that of DVD, that's one of the reasons why movie DVDs look much better than a DVD made from a video-camera source.



this is gonna be awesome for independent filmmakers that currently use DV. shooting hi-def produces a better quality result when put out to film for showing at cannes, on high-def digital cinema projectors, and for digital cable/ sat/ terrestial tv.



particularly that sony and jvc have sub-$5000 high-def cameras, previously for anything high-def you had to bite the $20,000+ bullet for 24-frame-progressive.



this also opens up possibilities for pro-sumer broadcast graphics and special effects, because you can shoot your source in hi def, then do all the compositing, graphics, effects, etc. in a much higher resolution... even if you then downsample to DVD, your final product will be much better.



same reasoning as why:

1. web designers like 150dpi or better imagery even when designing for web

2. sound designers and musicians work in 48khz+ 24bit even though CDs are 44khz 16bit

3. 3D artists work in high-dynamic color-spaces beyond the 24-32 bit space



of course a nice big ass plasma to view your big ass hi def iMovie from your big ass HD attached to your sweet sweet Mac mini media center would kick ass



.............

Peace

nebagakid

Look,people, the use of the word "ass" is necessary when talking about impressive hardware/software. Once we get over that, we can continue.



Most films are shot with 35mm, and I believe that HD has about the same resolution as a 16mm print (please correct me if i am wrong, three film production classes do not make me an expert).



I would want to get one for a 16:9 picture and for the more film like picture from a regular consumer DV camera.



It would be kick ass to be able to make the next homemade Arrested Development (which is shot with HD cameras)

sunilraman

Quote:

Originally posted by Nebagakid

Look,people, the use of the word "ass" is necessary when talking about impressive hardware/software. Once we get over that, we can continue.

nebaga, i am always enjoying your posts because they are enthusiastic and you are always chain smoking



here is some scanning specs offered by a NY bureau

http://www.duart.com/scan_specs.html



for film-like HDV, best to shoot "progressive", meaning 1280x720 progressive mode, and you may want to consider JVC's which can do true-slow-motion which hardly any camcorders do...



http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/f...l_id=MDL101394



(this slow motion, 60frames persecond, meaning fullframes of 1/2 the speed, is only 480p mode, ie DVD-equivalent res)



one drawback is Mpeg 2 on these HDV camcorders, at higher res artifacts aren't too bad but on the lower res, a bit dodgy....



5 years people... you will have several good choices of a kick ass 16mm-film-quality-with-close-to-film-look-with-speed-ramped-true-slow-motion kick ass camcorder at a good-ass price of $4500 8)

sickoperationz

well i definitely think the reasno for apple & sony bl.... is cuz of a blu-ray drive and maybe even a sony brand iPod



but i was wondering...



how is it that you can watch your hd work in Completely true high definition (without an hd-dvd/blu-ray player) via the computer? people are saying mac mini but wouldnt that downgrade the quality a bit?



also, there has been a hd dvd player announced but it sucks



http://reviews.cnet.com/JVC_HM-DH300...-20149605.html

nebagakid

i believe h.264 is going to allow for watching true HDTV on a lower-end computer than a Dual 2.5Ghz G5 (which is what takes do it now)

ebby

I hope my Dual 2Ghz can handle a HDTV H.264 stream some day. But wouldn't expect the system requirements to be anything less than a G5.

hmurchison

Burning Blu Ray or HD-DVD discs will be ok for transportability but I see people eventually being able to save their completed video to a DVR settop box and playback from there.



Or stream your video to that new Apple Projector with built in AVC decoding.



Burning to Optical nice for backing up but many people now are ripping their DVDs for quick and easy access now. Personally I don't like the virtual "BJ" Steve Jobs gave Sony but he's a marketer and isn't ashamed to do that when he can profit.



Despite what the Sony's and Panasonics will tell you I believe the future of HD Cameras will be direct to hard drives. Optical drives just aren't keeping up with size and they're slow. All a manufacturer needs to do is mate a nice lens system with a kickass CCD/CMOS sensor and then spool that to drive.



Sony will tell you how excited they are about the prospects of a Blu Ray camera in 5 years or so but let's be honest. In 5 years a 1" drive will likely hold a terabyte of data. Or at the least half that. The sensors and chips will be low enough in price to make affordable and functional cameras.



Sony, Canon and Panny have vested interests in pushing their homegrown formats. Sony will be hawking Blu Ray, Panny P2 flash and Canon will be hawking lens and CMOS sensors. It's important for America to realize this and some enterprising company will need to trim this fat and give moviemakers what they really want. 35mm sensors for excellent DOF...flexible media for quick ingesting and easy editing. a hard drive based cam in 5 years can handles this for under $10k



Optical burning will be used for sending dailes or finished projects to others and for backup.



Consumers will learn that networking their home entertainment devices will free them from spawning a bunch of pieces of media.

blackcat

There is confusion here.



iMovie HD and FCE HD can now work with HDV which is just the higher res version of DV (it's even backward compatible with older DV stuff).



iDVD can burn the resulting video to DVD. The media doesn't matter, it could be single layer discs in a superdrive, dual layer from a disc image or blu-ray from the same.



The point is, iMovie HD and FCE HD have nothing to do with HDTV, HD DVD or Blu-Ray. At worst we may need to buy new Pioneer DVR-108s.



I do believe Jobs gave us a clue which next gen standard Apple will support though.

hmurchison

Quote:

There is confusion here

Yes and you're adding to it.



Hi Definition "is" 1920 x 1080 or 1280 x 720 resolution



DVDs in North America use 720 x 480. Really very simple from this standpoint. But

Quote:

The point is, iMovie HD and FCE HD have nothing to do with HDTV, HD DVD or Blu-Ray. At worst we may need to buy new Pioneer DVR-108s

HDV is 1080i resolution so iMovie and FCE HD ARE HD in every facet.



Whether you can burn to an optical disc or not doesn't matter.

spytap

A) don't get 24p and HD confused. One is a scanning technique, one is a group of resolution standards. You can have 24p at VHS quality if you want. Also, 1080i is nice, but the quality depends on a lot more than just the resolution. Sony sells cameras that do 1080i for $2,000, and cameras that do the same resolution for $180,000, the difference is the color sensors, the lenses, and a whole assload of other factors. Quality HD is more complicated than just iMovie and a camcorder.



HD is between Super 8mm film and 16mm. 35mm films have 5-7X the resolution (and therefore, quality) that HD does, but one more important thing, the randomness aspect of the silver. HD is a grid, the silver in film is not evenly spaced per frame, it it inherently random, this allows for the "film look" (indeed, this is how most software programs simulate film stock, by inserting tiny random variations of silver reflection). Film also has a much greater contrast ratio and color gradation, equal to about 17MegaPixel.



HD is nice, and HD is convenient, but it's nowhere near the quality of film. It's not bad to broadcast on, but when it comes to shooting the product, film is still, for the moment, far ahead.

sunilraman

i am skeptical about 1080i because it's an interlaced capture mode. 1080p would be sweet. but i think that doesn't exist



spytap, here's a challenge for you. how long before "true film look" and "simulated film look" will meet in a circa-$5000 prosumer camera? what do you think?



5? 10? 15? 20 years?



when i say where "true film look" and "simulated film look" meet i mean along the lines of where "cd audio" and "160kbps mp3 audio" meet ... in other words, imperceptible difference for most intents and purposes



where "true film look" means shot on film and "simulated film look" means shot on video, 24p, or post-processed, etc.

gokart-mozart

Quote:

Originally posted by johnsocal

I think its cool that Jobs was showing off Sony's HD camera and that Mac's can edit HD but what's the point if Macs can't burn HD-DVD or Blu-rays?

How many CDs have you burned since you got an iPod?



Very few users will want to archive their HD video to DVD (or whatever), you'll just hook up a 2-terabyte HD to the firewire port on your mini-Mac, download all the movies you want to watch, upload your own creations, and stream them all wirelessly to your HDTVs.



DVDs are so-90s.

spytap