Falling Behind

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
What is Apple and IBM doing? While they are either trying to figure out how to get a G5 into a laptop the rest of the computer world (windows based PCs) are moving ahead. For the same amount of money as an iBook I can get a 64 bit laptop. Ok so it will has windows but do they really think many will care?



The laptops Apple are currently selling have so much kit inside them that is just basically out of date eg ram, hard drives. Apple should really move with the times. The look of Apple products and the OS is of the highest standard but that shouldn't be it. Inside should justify the money we spend.



I love Apple products but they should really bring out an update in the laptop line that will make people notice.



On the other hand they probably have one made and are just waiting for a good time to release it.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 23
    Quote:

    Originally posted by neo2049

    What is Apple and IBM doing? While they are either trying to figure out how to get a G5 into a laptop the rest of the computer world (windows based PCs) are moving ahead. For the same amount of money as an iBook I can get a 64 bit laptop. Ok so it will has windows but do they really think many will care?



    The laptops Apple are currently selling have so much kit inside them that is just basically out of date eg ram, hard drives. Apple should really move with the times. The look of Apple products and the OS is of the highest standard but that shouldn't be it. Inside should justify the money we spend.



    I love Apple products but they should really bring out an update in the laptop line that will make people notice.



    On the other hand they probably have one made and are just waiting for a good time to release it.




    1st of all, apple's laptop numbers are pretty good.



    2nd, consumers will make their own choices. if you dont like apple's offerings, by all means buy your 64-bit pc you speak of.



    finally, are you talking about a g5 powerbook? i think it's really stupid how much emphasis put on the processor. "5" is just a number. other than a very slighty higher processor speed, you arent gonna see wildly dramatic performance gains just becuase your product has the number 5 on it. a G4 powerbook with some decent ram loaded into it is an excellent computer and far better (IMO) than any PC portables. if you'd like, buy a G4 powerbook, ship it to me, and i'll change all the 4's to 5's. then will you be happy? will it "get your attention"?
  • Reply 2 of 23
    brendonbrendon Posts: 642member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ipodandimac

    1st of all, apple's laptop numbers are pretty good.



    2nd, consumers will make their own choices. if you dont like apple's offerings, by all means buy your 64-bit pc you speak of.



    finally, are you talking about a g5 powerbook? i think it's really stupid how much emphasis put on the processor. "5" is just a number. other than a very slighty higher processor speed, you arent gonna see wildly dramatic performance gains just becuase your product has the number 5 on it. a G4 powerbook with some decent ram loaded into it is an excellent computer and far better (IMO) than any PC portables. if you'd like, buy a G4 powerbook, ship it to me, and i'll change all the 4's to 5's. then will you be happy? will it "get your attention"?




    Powerbook G11 It is better than Powerbook G10 Wait for the G11 8)
  • Reply 3 of 23
    Quote:

    Originally posted by neo2049

    What is Apple and IBM doing?



    They are probably going to work everyday and trying to make processors and computers better. Maybe they just aren't putting in enough effort. But I think they are doing pretty good and am excited about the relationship overall.
  • Reply 4 of 23
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ipodandimac

    1st of all, apple's laptop numbers are pretty good.





    Actually Powerbook sales are down 29% year-to-year at a time when Apple's sales are expanding. Unless I am mistaken, Steve Jobs created the Powerbook G5 expectation (along with 3 GHz in 12 months) when the G5 was first introduced. He said in interviews that it could take them to the end of next year (i.e., end of 2004) to make it work. Like 3 Ghz, we're still waiting.



    http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=837

  • Reply 5 of 23
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,129member
    For chrissakes people have some damn patience. Faster laptops are coming.
  • Reply 6 of 23
    pbpb Posts: 4,228member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    For chrissakes people have some damn patience. Faster laptops are coming.



    True. But most people here, and elsewhere, cannot accept that this will be only a 167 MHz up from the current models (and perhaps some feature bump). Nor that it is not in Apple's hands to address the processor power/performance issue.
  • Reply 7 of 23
    nevermind
  • Reply 8 of 23
    Yes, Intel's Dothan is an order of magnitude faster than the G4s in Apple's PB line. It's really quite embarassing. In fact, a 2.1GHz Dothan benches close to 3.2-3.4GHz P4's, around the same ballpark as a single 2.5GHZ G5.



    Even with a G5 PowerBook, Apple will still be behind if that G5 is the PPC970 and less than 2.5GHz. No, Apple needs either a dual-core low-power G5 or a G5 with significantly more cache and more/improved functional units. As it stands right now, Dothan > PPC970 >> G4.



    And that's just the processor architecture. Apple's PowerBooks also lag in screen technology, battery life, size/weight and drive options when compared to Sony's new S series (4.2 lbs) for instance.
  • Reply 9 of 23
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Existence

    No, Apple needs either a dual-core low-power G5 or a G5 with significantly more cache and more/improved functional units.



    Yeah i think the integer unit of the 970 isn't really anything to brag about, unlike the FP. And the latest G4s have a slightly better Altivec Unit.



    I forgot all the specifics about the above though. eh
  • Reply 10 of 23
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Existence

    Yes, Intel's Dothan is an order of magnitude faster than the G4s in Apple's PB line. It's really quite embarassing. In fact, a 2.1GHz Dothan benches close to 3.2-3.4GHz P4's, around the same ballpark as a single 2.5GHZ G5.

    ...




    "An order of magnitude faster"? (throws flag) Listen, folks, the Dothan may be somewhat faster than a 1.5GHz G4, but it is NOT TEN TIMES FASTER.



    Fifteen-yard bad math penalty called on Existence.
  • Reply 11 of 23
    programmerprogrammer Posts: 3,409member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Existence

    Yes, Intel's Dothan is an order of magnitude faster than the G4s in Apple's PB line.



    Well, a binary order of magnitude maybe. I don't disagree that the G4 is behind the Dothan, but there's no need to exaggerate.





    Edit: Damn! Second time in a row I'm beaten to the punch.



  • Reply 12 of 23
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,399member
    I'd still take a dual core g4 over a g5 powerbook...



    Give it time, i'm sure IBM is doing the best they can do. When its there and ready, it will be in our grubby little hands.
  • Reply 13 of 23
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Programmer

    ... Damn! Second time in a row I'm beaten to the punch.



    I'm greatly honored, sir. Could you comment on the rumors regarding the Cell chip, being a hardware JVM? We are not seeing a repeat of the Pascal Microengine story, are we?



    (edit) Oh, I see you have already (in the other thread). Thank you!
  • Reply 14 of 23
    Someone at work jsut got a new Dell laptop. He said he spent $2000. I don't know if it is faster or has some nice features that the PowerBook doesn't have. I do know the screen seemed a bit brighter than on my 15". However, the Dell was a heavy ugly brick. It seemed that it was at least 1.5X as thick as my PB. I think even the 17" PB is easier to lug around than that Dell (which was about 15"). No way would I ever get a laptop like that Dell even if it can crunch numbers faster than my PB. I'd end up in physical therapy for my back in a month.
  • Reply 15 of 23
    algolalgol Posts: 833member
    The PowerBook needs an update badly, but it is not necessary that they have a G5. The real necessity is for apple to think about their marketing of the PowerBook. Those of you upset that new PC laptops are much faster than the PowerBook need to realize that these machines are in separate classes. The PowerBooks are small, inch thick notebooks with long battery life. They are basically full featured sub-notebooks. The PC portables that all of you are comparing to the PowerBook are much bigger and heavier. They also have far less battery life on average.



    Originally it was possible for apple to keep the PowerBooks on par with the PowerMacs because the G4 was an embedded low power chip. As CPUs get faster and hotter it is not going to be possible to continue to put desktop processors in the PowerBook. You say, "well they have P4 wintel portables." The P4 in the PC laptops is a tuned down version of the P4 for the desktops, and the PC laptops are huge compared to the PowerBook. Apple needs to create a new line of portables that are bigger in order to allow for the use of faster and hotter chips. The new line should be called the PowerBook and the current PowerBook line should be renamed the slimbook or something similar (i'm sure apple can come up with a better name haha)



    I large size PowerBook could easily hold more power and many customers would be willing to sacrifice thinness for power, especially the professionals that really need it.
  • Reply 16 of 23
    emig647emig647 Posts: 2,399member
    Well put, you hit the nail on the head.
  • Reply 17 of 23
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Algol

    The PowerBook needs an update badly, but it is not necessary that they have a G5. The real necessity is for apple to think about their marketing of the PowerBook. Those of you upset that new PC laptops are much faster than the PowerBook need to realize that these machines are in separate classes. The PowerBooks are small, inch thick notebooks with long battery life. They are basically full featured sub-notebooks. The PC portables that all of you are comparing to the PowerBook are much bigger and heavier. They also have far less battery life on average.



    Originally it was possible for apple to keep the PowerBooks on par with the PowerMacs because the G4 was an embedded low power chip. As CPUs get faster and hotter it is not going to be possible to continue to put desktop processors in the PowerBook. You say, "well they have P4 wintel portables." The P4 in the PC laptops is a tuned down version of the P4 for the desktops, and the PC laptops are huge compared to the PowerBook. Apple needs to create a new line of portables that are bigger in order to allow for the use of faster and hotter chips. The new line should be called the PowerBook and the current PowerBook line should be renamed the slimbook or something similar (i'm sure apple can come up with a better name haha)



    I large size PowerBook could easily hold more power and many customers would be willing to sacrifice thinness for power, especially the professionals that really need it.




    Did you even click my link to Sony's S series. It's the PowerBook that's overweight, slow and dim with subpar battery life.
  • Reply 18 of 23
    pbpb Posts: 4,228member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Algol

    The PC portables that all of you are comparing to the PowerBook are much bigger and heavier. They also have far less battery life on average.



    If I am not mistaken, after the advent of the P-M processors, all those are already history. Well, at least they are inherent to P4-M systems only.



    There are out there Centrino-based models much more powerful than our G4-based Powerbooks and, at the same time, much more efficient in power saving features, resulting in real 6 hours battery life. And packaged in similar or less volume/weight.
  • Reply 19 of 23
    sunilramansunilraman Posts: 8,133member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Algol

    The PowerBook needs an update badly, but it is not necessary that they have a G5. The real necessity is for apple to think about their marketing of the PowerBook. Those of you upset that new PC laptops are much faster than the PowerBook need to realize that these machines are in separate classes. The PowerBooks are small, inch thick notebooks with long battery life. They are basically full featured sub-notebooks. The PC portables that all of you are comparing to the PowerBook are much bigger and heavier. They also have far less battery life on average.



    Originally it was possible for apple to keep the PowerBooks on par with the PowerMacs because the G4 was an embedded low power chip. As CPUs get faster and hotter it is not going to be possible to continue to put desktop processors in the PowerBook. You say, "well they have P4 wintel portables." The P4 in the PC laptops is a tuned down version of the P4 for the desktops, and the PC laptops are huge compared to the PowerBook. Apple needs to create a new line of portables that are bigger in order to allow for the use of faster and hotter chips. The new line should be called the PowerBook and the current PowerBook line should be renamed the slimbook or something similar (i'm sure apple can come up with a better name haha)



    I large size PowerBook could easily hold more power and many customers would be willing to sacrifice thinness for power, especially the professionals that really need it.




    ah algol you crafty devil you nicely forumjacked this thread to fit into the one you started

    http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=50016







    my money is an announcement on new powerbooks within 2 months. tops
  • Reply 20 of 23
    algolalgol Posts: 833member
    yea, sorry about that. It was not my intention. After writing the above post I started looking around and thought it would be good to start a new thread for the idea.
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