No, you leave it home on your desk, and plug your powerbook into it when you get home. I actually plan on doing this, so the firewire 800 is really useful for me.
Also, I don't think that the 17" powerbook has any competetors in the PC marketplace (dual DVI, 6.9 lbs). I don't plan on doing ray-tracing on the road, but the extra features mean a lot to me.
Every time Apple introduces a new product, I suggest that appleinsider creates two forums: one to talk about the product, and another (which I won't read) to compare it to the PC.
The advantage of Dothan-based sonoma PC latops over these "Power"Books.
* 2MB L2 cache versus 512 KB L2 cache
* 2.13 GHz versus 1.67 GHz with 1.4-2x better performance than the G4, per clock. 90nm versus 130 nm technology.
* Advanced realtime clock/voltage throlling versus very primitive step-down throlling on the G4 (it's so pathetic, people have to say "set CPU performance to max in the ES control panel" when doing benchmarks)
* 533 MHz system bus (effective) versus 167 MHz
* DDR2-5400 memory versus un-utilized DDR2700 memory
* PCI Express graphics versus AGP graphics (Important for CoreImage/CoreVideo/DirectX9 shader applications, ie. using the GPU as a coprocessor)
* Express card slots versus regular PCMCIA cardbus slots (slow!!!)
I'm really amazed Apple even bothered updating the PowerBooks. They are beyond embarrassing.
Can I get all this in a 17" laptop that is 1" thick and weighs under 7 lbs? What about battery life? I agree that Apple needs to get a low-power G5 or 8xxx series G4 into the PowerBook line but a lot of the specs you quote are just not that important in a laptop and may only serve to diminish battery life. Laptops are meant to be used on batteries occasionally you know. The Mac mini already matches or exceeds the performance of the iMac G5 on many tests despite the iMac G5 having a faster bus and processor. I imagine these PowerBooks will take things a step further.
The advantage of Dothan-based sonoma PC latops over these "Power"Books.
* 2MB L2 cache versus 512 KB L2 cache
* 2.13 GHz versus 1.67 GHz with 1.4-2x better performance than the G4, per clock. 90nm versus 130 nm technology.
* Advanced realtime clock/voltage throlling versus very primitive step-down throlling on the G4 (it's so pathetic, people have to say "set CPU performance to max in the ES control panel" when doing benchmarks)
* 533 MHz system bus (effective) versus 167 MHz
* DDR2-5400 memory versus un-utilized DDR2700 memory
* PCI Express graphics versus AGP graphics (Important for CoreImage/CoreVideo/DirectX9 shader applications, ie. using the GPU as a coprocessor)
* Express card slots versus regular PCMCIA cardbus slots (slow!!!)
I'm really amazed Apple even bothered updating the PowerBooks. They are beyond embarrassing.
I think this is a very legitimate comparison, taking software out of the mix, the Dothan is a very good processor, and like it or not, it is better then the G4. You can argue RISC vs CISC all you want, but the voltage features, and the cache, and the bus, are far superior. Atleast Apple is trying.... Tho I'll wait for that G5 PB.
Every time Apple introduces a new product, I suggest that appleinsider creates two forums: one to talk about the product, and another (which I won't read) to compare it to the PC.
from all the passion on both sides of the performance topic, it's clear people's patience is frayed. the core issue seems to be the lingering "legacy" G4.
if IBM hadn't had so many bumps in the 90nm migration, we might have PB G5s by now (MWSF'05). but we don't.
for my part, my only peeve with this update is the 167Mhz system bus. overall, we got a slew of component improvements across the board, and a decent price drop to boot.
i've been waiting 4 yrs to upgrade, so (assuming no defects become evident over the next couple weeks) i'll be getting one of these. it has everything i want, except the faster bus, but i'll live with that.
re: dothan vs G4 subthread, i'm a game programmer, so speed is ideal. but i've been stuck working on a 2.8 P4 (winXP) for 15 months, waiting for the "right" PB upgrade. and frankly, it's been so frustrating that i'll take a performance hit, just to smooth out my workflow.
ie: i lose time just fighting with windows UI behavior (like Louzer). and i long for the joy of unix shell scripting again.
so, at least for me, dothan over G4 is far less compelling than OS X over XP, making it a no-brainer.
The advantage of Dothan-based sonoma PC latops over these "Power"Books.
* 2MB L2 cache versus 512 KB L2 cache
* 2.13 GHz versus 1.67 GHz with 1.4-2x better performance than the G4, per clock. 90nm versus 130 nm technology.
* Advanced realtime clock/voltage throlling versus very primitive step-down throlling on the G4 (it's so pathetic, people have to say "set CPU performance to max in the ES control panel" when doing benchmarks)
* 533 MHz system bus (effective) versus 167 MHz
* DDR2-5400 memory versus un-utilized DDR2700 memory
* PCI Express graphics versus AGP graphics (Important for CoreImage/CoreVideo/DirectX9 shader applications, ie. using the GPU as a coprocessor)
* Express card slots versus regular PCMCIA cardbus slots (slow!!!)
I'm really amazed Apple even bothered updating the PowerBooks. They are beyond embarrassing.
I agree and realize that the Sonoma laptops offer near desktop grade performance and true mobile power saving features. I have seen a CPU clock monitor program running on a Centrino and the thing worked virtually everywhere between 600 and 1600 MHz, switching frequency almost instantly according to CPU load. Quite impressive to save power.
But what do you want Apple to do? They are not the manufacturers of the G4 and G5, they depend on Freescale and IBM for that. However, I find the update rather nice if we take into account the situation in the PPC landscape, since it included some welcome feature improvements.
I agree and realize that the Sonoma laptops offer near desktop grade performance and true mobile power saving features. I have seen a CPU clock monitor program running on a Centrino and the thing worked virtually everywhere between 600 and 1600 MHz, switching frequency almost instantly according to CPU load. Quite impressive to save power.
But what do you want Apple to do?
I want them to release OSX for the PC! Hey a guy can dream right?
I think they released it on a Monday just to play with our minds. On the other hand, we could take it to mean that there is still hope for a G5 PowerBook tomorrow. I think The Register has something about it.
Checking my edu connetion on the new PB12 price points. My experience is that it has the deepest edu price cut, and certainly makes it worth buying for someone with accesss to institutional prices. For me, depending on discount, it will make a nice upgrade in RAM/HDD/Optical and I/O, with a near CPU doubling thrown in to boot. Should be possible with just a couple hundred over an ebay'd 867. hmmm...
I still contend that the G4 is not nearly the impediment that people say it is, when we're talking laptops.
I have a feeling the eventual G5 powerbook will not feature an IBM CPU... just a feeling...
All in all, a solid update, with lots of creature comforts.
Compatibility with the 30" beast was inevitable, but it's still welcome. 512MB of RAM is a welcome boost for a professional line especially. Leave it to Apple to handle the little extras and fit-and-finish and detailing. The new price structure is nice, too.
I'll be interested to see voltage and wattage numbers for the 7447B.
Nothing to shout from the rooftops, but it gives Apple, Freescale and IBM a few more months to take the line to the next level. If IBM hasn't cracked the "mobile 970" nut yet, Freescale will be delivering some very interesting next-gen G4s by then. Bye-bye MaxBus...
As for sales, they don't correlate exactly to updates. In the spring of last year, PowerBook sales spiked upward despite the fact that they hadn't been updated in months. It looks like Apple is dolling their product lines up for a halo effect.
One welcome side effect, pointed out by the denizens of Ars: Crack-addled speed freaks are no longer responsible for generating the copy on Apple's product pages. The language is actually reasonable, given that it's marketing babble. Someone must have received the message that the hyperbolic language they used to use just sounds defensive and delusional.
No, you leave it home on your desk, and plug your powerbook into it when you get home. I actually plan on doing this, so the firewire 800 is really useful for me.
As would I.
I'm noticing a "more power than you need" argument gaining traction here. This is an apologist and almost snobbish attitude. Why should anyone else tell me what I want to do with my computer? Besides, you sound like Bill Gates talking about 640K of RAM being more than enough for anyone.
However the COOOOOLEST thing I just noticed is Suddent Motion Sensor. That's wicked cool. Seriously.
why would apple wait to roll out this update? considering their powerbook sales sucked last quarter, why wouldn't they introduce these models in early novemeber for example for the holiday season?
no or not enough 1.67Ghz processors, maybe?
other technologies not ready? like bluetooth 2, scroll trackpad etc.
They were stupid about FireWire 1 (not including it on iMacs.) Now they are being stupid with FireWire 800 (FW 2). It's a POWERBook. It should have FW800. That is one thing that sticks out feature-wise in my mind.
I don't understand what you mean. The 15" and 17" have FW800.
The 12" doesn't, likely for space reasons (which is also why it doesn't have the backlit keyboard.)
...(which is also why it doesn't have the backlit keyboard.)
You are wrong on this one: back in the introduction of the Aluminum Powerbooks, two years ago, one Apple executive (I don't remember the name) acknowledged publicly in an interview that the 12" inch model has not the backlit keyboard not because of technical problems, but since they wanted to make the 17" model (there was not 15" Aluminum at the time) even more appealing. That's all, and it seems that Apple still holds on this decision.
It's costing me just under $3700 AUD with 100GB HD, 1GB ram & 128mb vram (not sure how useful this is given I don't own a 30" display).
I've been an apple user for years, but I must admit osX on a PB can feel sluggish at times. My friend recently bought a 17"PB (the model prior to this update) and I must say osX seems sluggish compared to windows XP at certain tasks like loading CDs/DVD etc.
But I figure this powerbook has got to be better than the 400MHz G4 Powermac desktop I'm currently using at home
Comments
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Why?
Do you carry a RAID array around with you?
No, you leave it home on your desk, and plug your powerbook into it when you get home. I actually plan on doing this, so the firewire 800 is really useful for me.
Also, I don't think that the 17" powerbook has any competetors in the PC marketplace (dual DVI, 6.9 lbs). I don't plan on doing ray-tracing on the road, but the extra features mean a lot to me.
Every time Apple introduces a new product, I suggest that appleinsider creates two forums: one to talk about the product, and another (which I won't read) to compare it to the PC.
Originally posted by Existence
The advantage of Dothan-based sonoma PC latops over these "Power"Books.
* 2MB L2 cache versus 512 KB L2 cache
* 2.13 GHz versus 1.67 GHz with 1.4-2x better performance than the G4, per clock. 90nm versus 130 nm technology.
* Advanced realtime clock/voltage throlling versus very primitive step-down throlling on the G4 (it's so pathetic, people have to say "set CPU performance to max in the ES control panel" when doing benchmarks)
* 533 MHz system bus (effective) versus 167 MHz
* DDR2-5400 memory versus un-utilized DDR2700 memory
* PCI Express graphics versus AGP graphics (Important for CoreImage/CoreVideo/DirectX9 shader applications, ie. using the GPU as a coprocessor)
* Express card slots versus regular PCMCIA cardbus slots (slow!!!)
I'm really amazed Apple even bothered updating the PowerBooks. They are beyond embarrassing.
Can I get all this in a 17" laptop that is 1" thick and weighs under 7 lbs? What about battery life? I agree that Apple needs to get a low-power G5 or 8xxx series G4 into the PowerBook line but a lot of the specs you quote are just not that important in a laptop and may only serve to diminish battery life. Laptops are meant to be used on batteries occasionally you know. The Mac mini already matches or exceeds the performance of the iMac G5 on many tests despite the iMac G5 having a faster bus and processor. I imagine these PowerBooks will take things a step further.
The advantage of Dothan-based sonoma PC latops over these "Power"Books.
* 2MB L2 cache versus 512 KB L2 cache
* 2.13 GHz versus 1.67 GHz with 1.4-2x better performance than the G4, per clock. 90nm versus 130 nm technology.
* Advanced realtime clock/voltage throlling versus very primitive step-down throlling on the G4 (it's so pathetic, people have to say "set CPU performance to max in the ES control panel" when doing benchmarks)
* 533 MHz system bus (effective) versus 167 MHz
* DDR2-5400 memory versus un-utilized DDR2700 memory
* PCI Express graphics versus AGP graphics (Important for CoreImage/CoreVideo/DirectX9 shader applications, ie. using the GPU as a coprocessor)
* Express card slots versus regular PCMCIA cardbus slots (slow!!!)
I'm really amazed Apple even bothered updating the PowerBooks. They are beyond embarrassing.
I think this is a very legitimate comparison, taking software out of the mix, the Dothan is a very good processor, and like it or not, it is better then the G4. You can argue RISC vs CISC all you want, but the voltage features, and the cache, and the bus, are far superior. Atleast Apple is trying.... Tho I'll wait for that G5 PB.
Originally posted by e1618978
Every time Apple introduces a new product, I suggest that appleinsider creates two forums: one to talk about the product, and another (which I won't read) to compare it to the PC.
Now that would be a great suggestion.
if IBM hadn't had so many bumps in the 90nm migration, we might have PB G5s by now (MWSF'05). but we don't.
for my part, my only peeve with this update is the 167Mhz system bus. overall, we got a slew of component improvements across the board, and a decent price drop to boot.
i've been waiting 4 yrs to upgrade, so (assuming no defects become evident over the next couple weeks) i'll be getting one of these. it has everything i want, except the faster bus, but i'll live with that.
re: dothan vs G4 subthread, i'm a game programmer, so speed is ideal. but i've been stuck working on a 2.8 P4 (winXP) for 15 months, waiting for the "right" PB upgrade. and frankly, it's been so frustrating that i'll take a performance hit, just to smooth out my workflow.
ie: i lose time just fighting with windows UI behavior (like Louzer). and i long for the joy of unix shell scripting again.
so, at least for me, dothan over G4 is far less compelling than OS X over XP, making it a no-brainer.
to each his/her own.
Originally posted by si_flippant
mmmmm... can anyone 'spot the troll' in this thread?
Apparently, me, because I'm the one who got scolded.
Originally posted by Existence
The advantage of Dothan-based sonoma PC latops over these "Power"Books.
* 2MB L2 cache versus 512 KB L2 cache
* 2.13 GHz versus 1.67 GHz with 1.4-2x better performance than the G4, per clock. 90nm versus 130 nm technology.
* Advanced realtime clock/voltage throlling versus very primitive step-down throlling on the G4 (it's so pathetic, people have to say "set CPU performance to max in the ES control panel" when doing benchmarks)
* 533 MHz system bus (effective) versus 167 MHz
* DDR2-5400 memory versus un-utilized DDR2700 memory
* PCI Express graphics versus AGP graphics (Important for CoreImage/CoreVideo/DirectX9 shader applications, ie. using the GPU as a coprocessor)
* Express card slots versus regular PCMCIA cardbus slots (slow!!!)
I'm really amazed Apple even bothered updating the PowerBooks. They are beyond embarrassing.
I agree and realize that the Sonoma laptops offer near desktop grade performance and true mobile power saving features. I have seen a CPU clock monitor program running on a Centrino and the thing worked virtually everywhere between 600 and 1600 MHz, switching frequency almost instantly according to CPU load. Quite impressive to save power.
But what do you want Apple to do? They are not the manufacturers of the G4 and G5, they depend on Freescale and IBM for that. However, I find the update rather nice if we take into account the situation in the PPC landscape, since it included some welcome feature improvements.
Originally posted by PB
I agree and realize that the Sonoma laptops offer near desktop grade performance and true mobile power saving features. I have seen a CPU clock monitor program running on a Centrino and the thing worked virtually everywhere between 600 and 1600 MHz, switching frequency almost instantly according to CPU load. Quite impressive to save power.
But what do you want Apple to do?
I want them to release OSX for the PC! Hey a guy can dream right?
Apple has broken the infinite chain of tuesdays!
*gasp!*
Sign of progress or of the coming apocolypse?
Thoughts? Comments? Links to free iPods?
Originally posted by ShallowThroat
In other news...
Apple has broken the infinite chain of tuesdays!
*gasp!*
Sign of progress or of the coming apocolypse?
Thoughts? Comments? Links to free iPods?
I think they released it on a Monday just to play with our minds. On the other hand, we could take it to mean that there is still hope for a G5 PowerBook tomorrow. I think The Register has something about it.
Originally posted by D.J. Adequate
I think they released it on a Monday just to play with our minds.
If I am not mistaken, there have been other Monday Powerbook updates too.
I still contend that the G4 is not nearly the impediment that people say it is, when we're talking laptops.
I have a feeling the eventual G5 powerbook will not feature an IBM CPU... just a feeling...
Compatibility with the 30" beast was inevitable, but it's still welcome. 512MB of RAM is a welcome boost for a professional line especially. Leave it to Apple to handle the little extras and fit-and-finish and detailing. The new price structure is nice, too.
I'll be interested to see voltage and wattage numbers for the 7447B.
Nothing to shout from the rooftops, but it gives Apple, Freescale and IBM a few more months to take the line to the next level. If IBM hasn't cracked the "mobile 970" nut yet, Freescale will be delivering some very interesting next-gen G4s by then. Bye-bye MaxBus...
As for sales, they don't correlate exactly to updates. In the spring of last year, PowerBook sales spiked upward despite the fact that they hadn't been updated in months. It looks like Apple is dolling their product lines up for a halo effect.
One welcome side effect, pointed out by the denizens of Ars: Crack-addled speed freaks are no longer responsible for generating the copy on Apple's product pages. The language is actually reasonable, given that it's marketing babble. Someone must have received the message that the hyperbolic language they used to use just sounds defensive and delusional.
No, you leave it home on your desk, and plug your powerbook into it when you get home. I actually plan on doing this, so the firewire 800 is really useful for me.
As would I.
I'm noticing a "more power than you need" argument gaining traction here. This is an apologist and almost snobbish attitude. Why should anyone else tell me what I want to do with my computer? Besides, you sound like Bill Gates talking about 640K of RAM being more than enough for anyone.
However the COOOOOLEST thing I just noticed is Suddent Motion Sensor. That's wicked cool. Seriously.
Originally posted by chunglee
why would apple wait to roll out this update? considering their powerbook sales sucked last quarter, why wouldn't they introduce these models in early novemeber for example for the holiday season?
no or not enough 1.67Ghz processors, maybe?
other technologies not ready? like bluetooth 2, scroll trackpad etc.
very tempting indeed:
shall i buy or shall i wait?
[edit] wow, i'm a little late, i see.
Originally posted by Aquatic
However the COOOOOLEST thing I just noticed is Suddent Motion Sensor. That's wicked cool. Seriously.
If it works, yes. It's like airbags for your laptop.
Originally posted by Aquatic
They were stupid about FireWire 1 (not including it on iMacs.) Now they are being stupid with FireWire 800 (FW 2). It's a POWERBook. It should have FW800. That is one thing that sticks out feature-wise in my mind.
I don't understand what you mean. The 15" and 17" have FW800.
The 12" doesn't, likely for space reasons (which is also why it doesn't have the backlit keyboard.)
If you need FW800 that bad, buy a 15".
Originally posted by Frank777
...(which is also why it doesn't have the backlit keyboard.)
You are wrong on this one: back in the introduction of the Aluminum Powerbooks, two years ago, one Apple executive (I don't remember the name) acknowledged publicly in an interview that the 12" inch model has not the backlit keyboard not because of technical problems, but since they wanted to make the 17" model (there was not 15" Aluminum at the time) even more appealing. That's all, and it seems that Apple still holds on this decision.
It's costing me just under $3700 AUD with 100GB HD, 1GB ram & 128mb vram (not sure how useful this is given I don't own a 30" display).
I've been an apple user for years, but I must admit osX on a PB can feel sluggish at times. My friend recently bought a 17"PB (the model prior to this update) and I must say osX seems sluggish compared to windows XP at certain tasks like loading CDs/DVD etc.
But I figure this powerbook has got to be better than the 400MHz G4 Powermac desktop I'm currently using at home