After reading the AVSForum, my worries are brought to rest -
The burn in doesn't seem to be much of a problem, unless your family leaves a menu up all day or something. My family is pretty good about turning it off when they are done.
Off Topic: I was overjoyed to learn in the AVSForum that
I am not a big fan of plasma displays. I think they're more form over function. I am a big fan of what I've seen from DLP displays and of course, there is no burn-in issue.
I have a CRT, but it uses up too much room. Remember that you pay for every square foot of your house or apartment. The space that the CRT currently occupies cost me $1200 to build, and I pay for heat and air-conditioning for that space.
Buying a Plasma TV works out to about the same cost as buying a large CRT when you take these things into account. A 40" CRT costs $2000. Plus, where you spend your money has an influence on the things that get made by manufacturers - do you want to encourage them to make flatscreens or continue to make CRTs?
And TeeVee shows are not as dumb if you get DirecTv with Tivo... Venture Brothers, Daria, Futurama, Nero Wolfe, the Daily Show, and Cowboy BeBop are my favorites.
Bullshit. Where do you live that you paid $1200 for the space it takes to put a CRT? Also if your space is so small you can't spare the room, why do you need a 40" TeeVee? I love TeeVee too but it's not worth an extra $4000 to watch The Simpsons and NYPD Blue. Too much money.
Bullshit. Where do you live that you paid $1200 for the space it takes to put a CRT? Also if your space is so small you can't spare the room, why do you need a 40" TeeVee? I love TeeVee too but it's not worth an extra $4000 to watch The Simpsons and NYPD Blue. Too much money.
Including the stand, the 40" CRT takes up aproximately 6 square feet of floor space, and my house cost $200/sq foot to build. The CRT also puts out a bunch of heat, which you have to pay extra AC cost to compensate for. The CRT weighs 300 lbs, and I would have to hire somebody to bring it upstairs. CRTs above medium size are a pain in the butt. Its not that my house is small, but the particular place that I want to put the TV is near some stairs that would be partly blocked by a large CRT.
Too much money is relative. For me - $2000 for a CRT that has an awkwardly large cabinet is not a good deal compared to $4500 for a TV that mounts to the wall. As the price of flatscreens drops, more and more people will dump the CRT. The price of flatscreens is dropping about 50% every two years, as far as I can tell ($8000 Plasmas two years ago have dropped to $4000 now - an $8000 TV I would never buy, but they dropped it into my price range and others will follow).
Of course I could use a 24" CRT and solve the same problem - I don't really need a big screen, but then I could also live in a tent. You don't really need that much, including a mac, you just want it.
I got a Sony 55 inch LCD projection TV. I saw some Sony plasma displays that were a little brighter and with a little better viewing angle. However, the price for LCD projection was much less than for Plasma. The added 1 foot of space behind the unit wasn't an issue for me.
I've got a comcast DVR 6412: Good News HDTV is great. Analog sucks big time. I watch anaog through my VCR because the DVR box doesn't get it right. However, this doesn't work when you want the ease of recording with DVR. I've had Comcast out to "fix" it but they are not acknowleding that it is their box, they wave their hands and say lots of things and try to convince you they fixed something...
Yeah Freak, I am very interested in what sort of TV you got that has burn-in. DLP and LCD are supposed to have burn-in.
[edit: sigh, that is "aren't supposed"]
the problem was a miscommunication (or brazen lie) with the salesman at bestbuy. i was looking at a number of tv's, and comparing them and such. i walked out, certain that my toshiba 65" was dlp or lcd, because they aren't supposed to have burn in and i knew i'd be playing a lot of games. i went merrily along thinking this until the burn in happened. at that point i looked up the specs on this particular tv and noticed in little print at the bottom of the page about burn in. turns out the tv is a rear-projection crt. the part that really pisses me off is that i had done a lot of general research about tvs, and knew that crts had the issue and was avoiding them for this reason.
before i noticed the burn (i'd like to note, that it is slight and only barely noticeable), my roommate and i probably averaged around 10-12h of xbox+ps2 a day. i got xbox right around christmas, and i'd taken a vacation at the same time. so almost every waking hour was on halo2. its a great game. the burn, when noticeable, matches the little halo2 map on the bottom left of the screen.
it is worth noting that outside of the burn, the tv is absolutely amazing. great quality. tons of inputs. it even has great speakers (which i didn't expect at all).
I take it that you didn't even crack the owner's manual?
Every CRT_based RPTV owner's manual I've seen will (a) tell you that it's CRT based, and (b) warn you of burn-in specifically from video games.
I hope there was a lesson learned. Primarily, don't believe anybody at Best Buy (or any salesperson, for that matter). Do your own research and know exactly what you're buying. Use the web and AV forums to research specific model numbers. Price difference alone should've told you that you were buying a CRT-based TV. DLP and LCD carry a (now minor) price premium.
Oh, and do the calibration thing I mentioned as well. That would've probably prevented the burn-in.
Including the stand, the 40" CRT takes up aproximately 6 square feet of floor space, and my house cost $200/sq foot to build. The CRT also puts out a bunch of heat, which you have to pay extra AC cost to compensate for. The CRT weighs 300 lbs, and I would have to hire somebody to bring it upstairs. CRTs above medium size are a pain in the butt. Its not that my house is small, but the particular place that I want to put the TV is near some stairs that would be partly blocked by a large CRT.
Too much money is relative. For me - $2000 for a CRT that has an awkwardly large cabinet is not a good deal compared to $4500 for a TV that mounts to the wall. As the price of flatscreens drops, more and more people will dump the CRT. The price of flatscreens is dropping about 50% every two years, as far as I can tell ($8000 Plasmas two years ago have dropped to $4000 now - an $8000 TV I would never buy, but they dropped it into my price range and others will follow).
Of course I could use a 24" CRT and solve the same problem - I don't really need a big screen, but then I could also live in a tent. You don't really need that much, including a mac, you just want it.
I agree with your decision, but not the reasoning behind it. Taking building space into account is kind of ridiculous in my opinion. It costs what it costs, and that is all. Plasma and LCD are still too expensive for my taste, but they are getting there.
It also depends on what your usage will be. I think for watching "TV" that my conventional falt HD CRT is really good. It is 4:3 so I don't have a problem with black bars. It's in a medium sized room, so even for movies it is pretty good.
However, in a few years when I redo my basment, I'll get a 16:9 with all the bells and whistles. That one will be primarily for movies. I assume that the conventional crt I have will be last conventional one I'll buy.
I say go for the gift certificate, figure out where you want the primary TV and (what size and type work best in that application, if the 27 inch works best go get one, otherwise, I say LCD rear Projection if the room is not overly lit. The downside with plasma, you will likely have to replace it in 5 years MAX, just look at a 3-4 year old plasma now, dim and most of them show signs of burn in, they say that the current crop is free of those glitches, but for $3000+. I would not be a tester.
The projection bulb in an RPTV can be changed in ~3 years for~$200 and give you the effect of a brand spankin' new TV as far as brightness and color.
Taking building space into account is kind of ridiculous in my opinion.
You pay for a CRT in money, space, and A/C cost - the Plasma just costs money, with no space or heat component. I think that space is an important piece of the puzzle.
I have a 21" CRT instead of a LCD for my computer monitor, because my computer is in a location that is not space critical - even with the huge CRT on the desk, there is still plenty of other room. If I had a cramped, little desk, then the calculation would be different, and I would spend 10x the price ($100 for the CRT, $1000 for a 20" flatscreen monitor).
You pay for a CRT in money, space, and A/C cost - the Plasma just costs money, with no space or heat component. I think that space is an important piece of the puzzle.
Don't kid yourself... plasmas generate a fair amount of heat as well.
I take it that you didn't even crack the owner's manual?
Every CRT_based RPTV owner's manual I've seen will (a) tell you that it's CRT based, and (b) warn you of burn-in specifically from video games.
I hope there was a lesson learned. Primarily, don't believe anybody at Best Buy (or any salesperson, for that matter). Do your own research and know exactly what you're buying. Use the web and AV forums to research specific model numbers. Price difference alone should've told you that you were buying a CRT-based TV. DLP and LCD carry a (now minor) price premium.
Oh, and do the calibration thing I mentioned as well. That would've probably prevented the burn-in.
the owners manual wasn't really an option until after the buy (and after "all sales are final. and the warantee you bought doesn't cover this"). but i am forever jaded against salesmen; i had previously gone to pcrichards to buy a tv and had a terrible ordeal with that whole store (but i dont feel like getting into that right now). on my big purchases goign forward, i'll certainly lookup model numbers online. and, as i was ignorant to its crt-ness, calibration wasn't supposed to be an issue. anyway, i was mostly just relaying my tale so that others would be more conscious of the potential problem.
luckily for me, my company just gave me a nice big $2000 reimbursement (from a completely unrelated matter) that will cover most of my losses.
Update: decided to go with a 53 inch CRT-based rear projection TV, the Panasonic PT-53x54. Cost us $599 + taxes + delivery for a total of $730. Had it delivered yesterday, Monday, and wouldn't you know it, the television was DOA. Power LED was red, indicating it was on, and we heard the click sound that it was receiving power but no picture and no sound. It was dead. They took it away and now I'm waiting for the next shipment of PT-53x54 TVs in order to receive a functional one.
They said it was a 1-in-a-million failure. Considering that we also received a malfunctioning "1-in-a-million" LG refrigerator that took us 3 weeks to sort out, I should be buying some lottery tickets now...
One note about TV tech. Short-tube big screen direct-view CRTs are supposedly coming out. If they are in the 40+ inch, < 20 inch depth, ~ $1000 range, I can see direct-view CRTs living on for at least another decade with at least half of the big screen technologies dying off (plasmas, rear proj. LCDs).
One note about TV tech. Short-tube big screen direct-view CRTs are supposedly coming out. If they are in the 40+ inch, < 20 inch depth, ~ $1000 range, I can see direct-view CRTs living on for at least another decade with at least half of the big screen technologies dying off (plasmas, rear proj. LCDs).
They said it was a 1-in-a-million failure. Considering that we also received a malfunctioning "1-in-a-million" LG refrigerator that took us 3 weeks to sort out, I should be buying some lottery tickets now...
when i was lusting over televisions a few months ago, i was wandering the aisles of best buy on my lunch break for a few minutes, and i came to a few conclusions...
first, crt's (good old tube kid) are still the best picture overall. lcd's and plasma either suffer from artifacts on screen or ghosting, even on some of the most expensive. (well, okay, i guess the $8000 tv was darn nice, but it was EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS).
also, those big crt's, for all their better picture quality, ARE FRIGGIN' WHALES! i'd have to disassemble some of those suckers just to get them through the doorway to my house.
i'm looking for a tv too, and panasonic has never done me wrong in any sort of way, going all the way back to a digital clock radio won at the minnesota 1979 state fair... still going strong. i'm looking for a 30-35" flat surface (not THIN, just flat surface... i.e., not a convex tube surface -- my current jvc gets glare from ANYTHING in the room with that bulge), with HD capability, and not so deep i have to cut a hole in my wall to fit it.
Comments
Originally posted by mikef
The only exposure to plasma displays I have is at Best Buy and similar stores. I draw on the collective knowledge of AVSForum in this case.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...hreadid=444258
After reading the AVSForum, my worries are brought to rest -
The burn in doesn't seem to be much of a problem, unless your family leaves a menu up all day or something. My family is pretty good about turning it off when they are done.
Off Topic: I was overjoyed to learn in the AVSForum that
whole house DVRs are in development - I really
want one!
Originally posted by e1618978
I have a CRT, but it uses up too much room. Remember that you pay for every square foot of your house or apartment. The space that the CRT currently occupies cost me $1200 to build, and I pay for heat and air-conditioning for that space.
Buying a Plasma TV works out to about the same cost as buying a large CRT when you take these things into account. A 40" CRT costs $2000. Plus, where you spend your money has an influence on the things that get made by manufacturers - do you want to encourage them to make flatscreens or continue to make CRTs?
And TeeVee shows are not as dumb if you get DirecTv with Tivo... Venture Brothers, Daria, Futurama, Nero Wolfe, the Daily Show, and Cowboy BeBop are my favorites.
Bullshit. Where do you live that you paid $1200 for the space it takes to put a CRT? Also if your space is so small you can't spare the room, why do you need a 40" TeeVee? I love TeeVee too but it's not worth an extra $4000 to watch The Simpsons and NYPD Blue. Too much money.
Originally posted by Scott
Bullshit. Where do you live that you paid $1200 for the space it takes to put a CRT? Also if your space is so small you can't spare the room, why do you need a 40" TeeVee? I love TeeVee too but it's not worth an extra $4000 to watch The Simpsons and NYPD Blue. Too much money.
Including the stand, the 40" CRT takes up aproximately 6 square feet of floor space, and my house cost $200/sq foot to build. The CRT also puts out a bunch of heat, which you have to pay extra AC cost to compensate for. The CRT weighs 300 lbs, and I would have to hire somebody to bring it upstairs. CRTs above medium size are a pain in the butt. Its not that my house is small, but the particular place that I want to put the TV is near some stairs that would be partly blocked by a large CRT.
Too much money is relative. For me - $2000 for a CRT that has an awkwardly large cabinet is not a good deal compared to $4500 for a TV that mounts to the wall. As the price of flatscreens drops, more and more people will dump the CRT. The price of flatscreens is dropping about 50% every two years, as far as I can tell ($8000 Plasmas two years ago have dropped to $4000 now - an $8000 TV I would never buy, but they dropped it into my price range and others will follow).
Of course I could use a 24" CRT and solve the same problem - I don't really need a big screen, but then I could also live in a tent. You don't really need that much, including a mac, you just want it.
I got a Sony 55 inch LCD projection TV. I saw some Sony plasma displays that were a little brighter and with a little better viewing angle. However, the price for LCD projection was much less than for Plasma. The added 1 foot of space behind the unit wasn't an issue for me.
I've got a comcast DVR 6412: Good News HDTV is great. Analog sucks big time. I watch anaog through my VCR because the DVR box doesn't get it right. However, this doesn't work when you want the ease of recording with DVR. I've had Comcast out to "fix" it but they are not acknowleding that it is their box, they wave their hands and say lots of things and try to convince you they fixed something...
Really really nice.
Its only 2 inches deeper than his old 30" sony, which is impressive.
It goes upto 1080i, and has HDMI input and a cable card slot.
At this point in time, for the money you want to spend, a nice CRT seems like the way to go.
Originally posted by THT
Yeah Freak, I am very interested in what sort of TV you got that has burn-in. DLP and LCD are supposed to have burn-in.
[edit: sigh, that is "aren't supposed"]
the problem was a miscommunication (or brazen lie) with the salesman at bestbuy. i was looking at a number of tv's, and comparing them and such. i walked out, certain that my toshiba 65" was dlp or lcd, because they aren't supposed to have burn in and i knew i'd be playing a lot of games. i went merrily along thinking this until the burn in happened. at that point i looked up the specs on this particular tv and noticed in little print at the bottom of the page about burn in. turns out the tv is a rear-projection crt. the part that really pisses me off is that i had done a lot of general research about tvs, and knew that crts had the issue and was avoiding them for this reason.
before i noticed the burn (i'd like to note, that it is slight and only barely noticeable), my roommate and i probably averaged around 10-12h of xbox+ps2 a day. i got xbox right around christmas, and i'd taken a vacation at the same time. so almost every waking hour was on halo2. its a great game. the burn, when noticeable, matches the little halo2 map on the bottom left of the screen.
it is worth noting that outside of the burn, the tv is absolutely amazing. great quality. tons of inputs. it even has great speakers (which i didn't expect at all).
Every CRT_based RPTV owner's manual I've seen will (a) tell you that it's CRT based, and (b) warn you of burn-in specifically from video games.
I hope there was a lesson learned. Primarily, don't believe anybody at Best Buy (or any salesperson, for that matter). Do your own research and know exactly what you're buying. Use the web and AV forums to research specific model numbers. Price difference alone should've told you that you were buying a CRT-based TV. DLP and LCD carry a (now minor) price premium.
Oh, and do the calibration thing I mentioned as well. That would've probably prevented the burn-in.
Originally posted by e1618978
Including the stand, the 40" CRT takes up aproximately 6 square feet of floor space, and my house cost $200/sq foot to build. The CRT also puts out a bunch of heat, which you have to pay extra AC cost to compensate for. The CRT weighs 300 lbs, and I would have to hire somebody to bring it upstairs. CRTs above medium size are a pain in the butt. Its not that my house is small, but the particular place that I want to put the TV is near some stairs that would be partly blocked by a large CRT.
Too much money is relative. For me - $2000 for a CRT that has an awkwardly large cabinet is not a good deal compared to $4500 for a TV that mounts to the wall. As the price of flatscreens drops, more and more people will dump the CRT. The price of flatscreens is dropping about 50% every two years, as far as I can tell ($8000 Plasmas two years ago have dropped to $4000 now - an $8000 TV I would never buy, but they dropped it into my price range and others will follow).
Of course I could use a 24" CRT and solve the same problem - I don't really need a big screen, but then I could also live in a tent. You don't really need that much, including a mac, you just want it.
I agree with your decision, but not the reasoning behind it. Taking building space into account is kind of ridiculous in my opinion. It costs what it costs, and that is all. Plasma and LCD are still too expensive for my taste, but they are getting there.
It also depends on what your usage will be. I think for watching "TV" that my conventional falt HD CRT is really good. It is 4:3 so I don't have a problem with black bars. It's in a medium sized room, so even for movies it is pretty good.
However, in a few years when I redo my basment, I'll get a 16:9 with all the bells and whistles. That one will be primarily for movies. I assume that the conventional crt I have will be last conventional one I'll buy.
The projection bulb in an RPTV can be changed in ~3 years for~$200 and give you the effect of a brand spankin' new TV as far as brightness and color.
Taking building space into account is kind of ridiculous in my opinion.
You pay for a CRT in money, space, and A/C cost - the Plasma just costs money, with no space or heat component. I think that space is an important piece of the puzzle.
I have a 21" CRT instead of a LCD for my computer monitor, because my computer is in a location that is not space critical - even with the huge CRT on the desk, there is still plenty of other room. If I had a cramped, little desk, then the calculation would be different, and I would spend 10x the price ($100 for the CRT, $1000 for a 20" flatscreen monitor).
Originally posted by e1618978
You pay for a CRT in money, space, and A/C cost - the Plasma just costs money, with no space or heat component. I think that space is an important piece of the puzzle.
Don't kid yourself... plasmas generate a fair amount of heat as well.
Originally posted by mikef
I take it that you didn't even crack the owner's manual?
Every CRT_based RPTV owner's manual I've seen will (a) tell you that it's CRT based, and (b) warn you of burn-in specifically from video games.
I hope there was a lesson learned. Primarily, don't believe anybody at Best Buy (or any salesperson, for that matter). Do your own research and know exactly what you're buying. Use the web and AV forums to research specific model numbers. Price difference alone should've told you that you were buying a CRT-based TV. DLP and LCD carry a (now minor) price premium.
Oh, and do the calibration thing I mentioned as well. That would've probably prevented the burn-in.
the owners manual wasn't really an option until after the buy (and after "all sales are final. and the warantee you bought doesn't cover this"). but i am forever jaded against salesmen; i had previously gone to pcrichards to buy a tv and had a terrible ordeal with that whole store (but i dont feel like getting into that right now). on my big purchases goign forward, i'll certainly lookup model numbers online. and, as i was ignorant to its crt-ness, calibration wasn't supposed to be an issue. anyway, i was mostly just relaying my tale so that others would be more conscious of the potential problem.
luckily for me, my company just gave me a nice big $2000 reimbursement (from a completely unrelated matter) that will cover most of my losses.
They said it was a 1-in-a-million failure. Considering that we also received a malfunctioning "1-in-a-million" LG refrigerator that took us 3 weeks to sort out, I should be buying some lottery tickets now...
One note about TV tech. Short-tube big screen direct-view CRTs are supposedly coming out. If they are in the 40+ inch, < 20 inch depth, ~ $1000 range, I can see direct-view CRTs living on for at least another decade with at least half of the big screen technologies dying off (plasmas, rear proj. LCDs).
Originally posted by THT
One note about TV tech. Short-tube big screen direct-view CRTs are supposedly coming out. If they are in the 40+ inch, < 20 inch depth, ~ $1000 range, I can see direct-view CRTs living on for at least another decade with at least half of the big screen technologies dying off (plasmas, rear proj. LCDs).
Oooooooooooooooooh.
[/intelligent commentary]
Originally posted by THT
They said it was a 1-in-a-million failure. Considering that we also received a malfunctioning "1-in-a-million" LG refrigerator that took us 3 weeks to sort out, I should be buying some lottery tickets now...
That or some life insurance.
first, crt's (good old tube kid) are still the best picture overall. lcd's and plasma either suffer from artifacts on screen or ghosting, even on some of the most expensive. (well, okay, i guess the $8000 tv was darn nice, but it was EIGHT THOUSAND DOLLARS).
also, those big crt's, for all their better picture quality, ARE FRIGGIN' WHALES! i'd have to disassemble some of those suckers just to get them through the doorway to my house.
i'm looking for a tv too, and panasonic has never done me wrong in any sort of way, going all the way back to a digital clock radio won at the minnesota 1979 state fair... still going strong. i'm looking for a 30-35" flat surface (not THIN, just flat surface... i.e., not a convex tube surface -- my current jvc gets glare from ANYTHING in the room with that bulge), with HD capability, and not so deep i have to cut a hole in my wall to fit it.