next airport express with video-out?

Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
i just sat down here in front of my desk with my powerbook on it. wouldn't it be nice to surf apple's iVideo online-store and be able to buy a latest movie, burn it on DVD or be able to download a movie for one-day usage for - say - $1 ! ...



but why stop here... ? i want to tell the iVideo-application to start the Movie and look it over airport express in my living room on my TV or projector... same like with my music...



so - what do you thing?
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 26
    forst of all, wireless video over something like airport express would be AWFUL. and no, i dont want to surf the iVideo store and pay $1 to watch it. neither does 100% of the film industry.
  • Reply 2 of 26
    krassykrassy Posts: 595member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ipodandimac

    forst of all, wireless video over something like airport express would be AWFUL. and no, i dont want to surf the iVideo store and pay $1 to watch it. neither does 100% of the film industry.



    so what transfer-rate do we need for video playback over airport? as you probably can imagine the current speed for wireless communication is slow against speeds of tomorrow. also $1 for a movie to watch one-day would be a huge deal when people don't need to borrow a real dvd for $3. third - it's all about databases: you can have a library of music AND a library of movies on your harddisk in the future. and playback is just a click away. care to explain your negative position? thanks.
  • Reply 3 of 26
    quambquamb Posts: 143member
    i think you're getting ahead of the times a bit - in reality, most people out there have pretty average computers that couldn't run high-quality feature length movies. And those folk who do download films and watch them (naughty naughty) are in a minority.



    mp3/music has taken off as most people can use and afford such technology.



    plus - with blu-ray and hd-dvd on the horizon, and dvd still being hugely popular, there is no reason for the film business to head towards anything similar to iTunes. They are making a TON of cash on dvd sales, no need for change at the moment.



    but yeh its a cool thought, especially with a nice handheld apple projector.
  • Reply 4 of 26
    krassykrassy Posts: 595member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by quamb

    i think you're getting ahead of the times a bit - in reality, most people out there have pretty average computers that couldn't run high-quality feature length movies. And those folk who do download films and watch them (naughty naughty) are in a minority.



    the Mac Mini equipped with an airport-card can handle high quality feature length movies. the new quicktime HD-codec fits in well as the compress rate of video-data will be better than today - thus you have a smaller download for full length movies. the future is not THAT far away. especially with the mac mini already here (and speculation that it will be more than just an entry-level office computer) - and think about the projector rumors. the movie-story would be just the next logical step (to me)
  • Reply 5 of 26
    tednditedndi Posts: 1,921member
    I'm with you on that one given the presence of the Sony pres at the MWSF keynote. Things are in the wind. Apple can be the first to provide such a service through Itms and thus cement its postion in the industry. Two bit players like Napster will fall by the boards.
  • Reply 6 of 26
    I do not think that you will download the movie, rather you will stream the movie over the internet. When you look closely at the new cell processor, take note of the hardware dedicated to DRM. It's not there by accident.



    This service would compete with play-on-demand by cable companies so Apple will need to come up with new tricks to create their customer base. I would envision a huge catelog of movies, TV shows and sporting events along with cool user options that only Apple can come up with.



    Steve always said that customers would want to own their music since: (1) that's the way it has always been; and (2) customers listen to their favorite songs over and over. Steve never said that the public wanted to own video content. Dare I say that he may even consider a subscription model for video content.
  • Reply 7 of 26
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,074member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Krassy

    i just sat down here in front of my desk with my powerbook on it. wouldn't it be nice to surf apple's iVideo online-store and be able to buy a latest movie, burn it on DVD or be able to download a movie for one-day usage for - say - $1 ! ...



    but why stop here... ? i want to tell the iVideo-application to start the Movie and look it over airport express in my living room on my TV or projector... same like with my music...



    so - what do you thing?




    Theoretically, you could get it to work (HDTV is 19 mb/s) - but I just want them to make the damn express reliable for audio (no dropouts) first.
  • Reply 8 of 26
    Quote:

    Originally posted by e1618978

    Theoretically, you could get it to work (HDTV is 19 mb/s) - but I just want them to make the damn express reliable for audio (no dropouts) first.



    That is 19Mb/s divided by 3 that is the compression of H264 on HD-DVD streams. That would be more like 6.33Mb/s compressed. Right now the problem is the internet, where my speed is just now hitting 5Mb/s. So in a short time we will be able to watch movies streamed over the internet. I think putting up so many trailers has given Apple some ideas. Sony missed the wagon with he iPod and the iTunes store, I don't think that they want to miss this wagon seeig as how they have a sizeable movie collection. So if we want a movie we can start it playing and if we want to buy it after watching it we would have the option to burn it to disk or hold it on hard drive like iTunes music.
  • Reply 9 of 26
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Brendon

    [B]Right now the problem is the internet, where my speed is just now hitting 5Mb/s. So in a short time we will be able to watch movies streamed over the internet.



    You are getting 5 Mb/s but so are other computers on your home network and your neighbors across the street. Cell is being touted as "broadband on a chip" and my theory is that streaming servers will break the video apart into more than one stream that will be sent to the multiple cores in the cell chip where they wil be reassembled into your video on demand.



    Anyone see any technical issues with that?
  • Reply 10 of 26
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,074member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jaslu81

    You are getting 5 Mb/s but so are other computers on your home network and your neighbors across the street. Cell is being touted as "broadband on a chip" and my theory is that streaming servers will break the video apart into more than one stream that will be sent to the multiple cores in the cell chip where they wil be reassembled into your video on demand.



    Anyone see any technical issues with that?




    So you are saying that you are going to take your internet connection and combine it with your neighbors (via wireless)? I think your neighbor will have something to say about that.



    Also, I thought that the maximum theoretical lossless compression was 2-1, not 3-1. Are you sure about the 3-1?

    I always assumed the MPEG-2 (or whatever over the air HDTV uses) was already somewhat compressed.
  • Reply 11 of 26
    tednditedndi Posts: 1,921member
    why not harness a bit torrent approach with each user of the content and the cell chips interspersed worldwide "sharing" the upload of portions of the stream?



    Distributed computing. Solves many problems and if drm is on the chip then that piece of the puzzle is solved. Apple merely hosts the torrent site.
  • Reply 12 of 26
    Quote:

    Originally posted by e1618978

    So you are saying that you are going to take your internet connection and combine it with your neighbors (via wireless)?



    Unless I am mistaken, internet connections have a maximum speed for any given stream but you can access more than one stream at a time. When I download more than one thing at a time, it does not appear that the speed is cut in half. Further, we have more than one computer accessing the internet off of our home network and I never notice any impact whatsoever.



    The reference to "your neighbor" maybe only applies if you are accessing broadband via cable as I am where we all share the same data "pipeline". Theoretically cable performance can drop if its gets overloaded but I have never noticed any difference in the years that we have used Roadrunner.



    TednDi, please elaborate on a "bit torrent approach". What does that mean?
  • Reply 13 of 26
    tednditedndi Posts: 1,921member
    Here is what wikipedia describes the system as.



    All in all a more efficient way to download the files.





    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bittorrent
  • Reply 14 of 26
    e1618978e1618978 Posts: 6,074member
    Quote:

    Unless I am mistaken, internet connections have a maximum speed for any given stream but you can access more than one stream at a time. When I download more than one thing at a time, it does not appear that the speed is cut in half. Further, we have more than one computer accessing the internet off of our home network and I never notice any impact whatsoever.



    The reference to "your neighbor" maybe only applies if you are accessing broadband via cable as I am where we all share the same data "pipeline". Theoretically cable performance can drop if its gets overloaded but I have never noticed any difference in the years that we have used Roadrunner.



    TednDi, please elaborate on a "bit torrent approach". What does that mean? [/B]



    No - you have a maximum bitrate that you can receive stuff at, and that is set by roadrunner. The reason why you don't notice other people slowing you down is that you are usually running at far below your maximum bitrate. Look at the bitrates of your downloads - they will be way below your maximum (usually 1 mBit/sec is a great speed, like from the apple website or some other big server).



    If you are subscribed to "Roadrunner premium", then your maximum bitrate is about 5 or 6 mb/sec (I get 5.5 - they advertise "up to 8", but that is pretty unrealistic and non-typical). If you start a 5 mb/sec download, your wife will get mad at you when her internet access slows way down or hangs, particulary if it is for two hours while you watch a movie over the internet.
  • Reply 15 of 26
    I like the idea of a little mini-DVI output from the new Airport Express, a new version of DVD Player and QuickTime with the ability to stream to the AE in iTunes style using the mini-DVI and audio outs. Also, the AE gives my PB12 optical out meaning true 5.1 surround when plugged into a decent decoder. How much do M-Audio charge for their USB/optical out unit? About the same as the current AE. So that's DVDs and 5.1 (or DTS) sound all wireless. This will be entirely plausible when 802.11n comes onto the scene later this year.



    And all of this has nothing to do with a video store... yet.



    They could probably use the AE as a bridge for USB and FireWire devices. This would be great (although I know this would affect data rates significantly).



    Whilst we're on the subject, how about some support for wireless USB and wireless FireWire? Both are in the works, although W-USB seems to be further on. Imagine wireless iPod dock, wireless external drives, wireless EyeTV.



    Unfortunately, we'd still have power cables... This needs to be next on the wireless hitlist
  • Reply 16 of 26
    Quote:

    Originally posted by danielctull

    I like the idea of a little mini-DVI output from the new Airport Express, a new version of DVD Player and QuickTime with the ability to stream to the AE in iTunes style using the mini-DVI and audio outs. Also, the AE gives my PB12 optical out meaning true 5.1 surround when plugged into a decent decoder. How much do M-Audio charge for their USB/optical out unit? About the same as the current AE. So that's DVDs and 5.1 (or DTS) sound all wireless. This will be entirely plausible when 802.11n comes onto the scene later this year.



    And all of this has nothing to do with a video store... yet.



    They could probably use the AE as a bridge for USB and FireWire devices. This would be great (although I know this would affect data rates significantly).



    Whilst we're on the subject, how about some support for wireless USB and wireless FireWire? Both are in the works, although W-USB seems to be further on. Imagine wireless iPod dock, wireless external drives, wireless EyeTV.



    Unfortunately, we'd still have power cables... This needs to be next on the wireless hitlist




    except for the wireless firewire and usb and 802.11n, have fun believing that stuff will be coming out remotely soon.
  • Reply 17 of 26
    wmfwmf Posts: 1,164member
    Let's say a DVD-quality H.264 movie is 1GB. How much does it cost for Apple to move 1GB from their servers to your computer? More or less than $1?



    A swarming approach is interesting, but then you are effectively paying to send the video to other people (because it ties up your Net connection). So first you pay to get the video, and then you pay again to send it to other people. Why?



    And if you want to beta test this, you can sign up for Akimbo today...
  • Reply 18 of 26
    Quote:

    Originally posted by wmf

    A swarming approach is interesting, but then you are effectively paying to send the video to other people (because it ties up your Net connection). So first you pay to get the video, and then you pay again to send it to other people. Why?





    I don't think a "swarming" or distributed distribution model will ever work. Reasons: liability and assuring the integrity of the data. Once joe-shmoe and joe-hacker are part of the distribution chain, how long before joe-hacker figures out a way to corrupt the data being sent to others? Insert a virus, or a little pr0n into the data stream. Hehe, good fun.



    All the distribution nodes need to be secure and trust worthy. That's never going to happen on the great unwashed masses' machines. Someone like Akamai could serve as the "swarm" provider, but not you and me.



    - Jasen.
  • Reply 19 of 26
    tednditedndi Posts: 1,921member
    Why can't the drm be embedded into the client app? Itunes fairly well handles the DRM now. And I am sure apple can digitally watermark all of the files and have the swarm apps add their own little digital fingerprint. Apple can then randomly "sample" its own stream swarm content by both acting as the originating node and and multiple sample nodes.



    Put an x serve rack into each apple store and use them as remote swarm nodes.
  • Reply 20 of 26
    wmfwmf Posts: 1,164member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by jasenj1

    I don't think a "swarming" or distributed distribution model will ever work. Reasons: liability and assuring the integrity of the data. Once joe-shmoe and joe-hacker are part of the distribution chain, how long before joe-hacker figures out a way to corrupt the data being sent to others? Insert a virus, or a little pr0n into the data stream. Hehe, good fun.



    This problem was solved with hashes. As long as you get the hash from the original content provider, you can tell good data from bad data. One of the P2P CDN companies came up with a catchy slogan for it: "No good user gets bad data".
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