Adding some more RAM will really hurt them, right? RAM's so cheap, it's horrible Apple doesn't include more.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe RAM is cheap just now for normal customers, but maybe not then when Apple has to buy a lot of RAMs. Apple has to buy RAM before production starts. It means at least 4-6 months before start.
Maybe RAM is cheap just now for normal customers, but maybe not then when Apple has to buy a lot of RAMs. Apple has to buy RAM before production starts. It means at least 4-6 months before start.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
The actual reason Apple underequips their low-end machines with RAM is because they have a strict minimum advertized price that prevents resellers from undercutting each other by more than a few bucks. So instead, they set things up so that the reseller can throw in 128MB FREE! and have it be an attractive offer rather than, say, another 128MB on top of the 512MB already installed.
As far as the DealRAM prices: Yes, Apple makes a profit on RAM upgrades. No, you can't compare the RAM they use to the cheapest crap available.
When you consider that Apple's own webpage states system requirements for iLife are 256MB of RAM, its ridiculous that they would sell any new machines with anything less, especially when iLife is really the center of Apple's software their digital hub strategy.
Another example of this inconsistency is to have touted Quartz Extreme, then to have turned around and sold OSX systems with video cards that didn't support QE. One of the benefits of Apple is supposed to be that because they make the computer and the software, integration is better, and it generally is. But for the price, baseline configurations on all machines should be able to implement iLife and QE.
I can imagine how slow a basline machine would feel running OSX with 128MB and a non-QE video card - re-size a window and smoke-em if you got'em....
okay, now that i am feeling a LOT better -- and not in such a crappy mood -- i thought i would also point out that in one of my original predictions was that the imac was to be, spec-wise, the desktop equivalent of the powerbooks.
and, lo and behold, i was pretty darn close, huh?
like i said before, this is not new with apple... my imac dv se was, at the time, the desktop equivalent -- part for part -- of the powerbook at the time. only with a 1024x768 max resolution crt display instead of an lcd. now you can't even make that distinction anymore.
so the imac is a pretty darn good deal. if you want a 17" powerbook, yet look at the 17" imacs specs, unless you can make a very good case for portability for your work, the imac is pretty good (though it does bug me about the no-multiple-monitor thing, which is ultimately why i gave up on my imac... dreamweaver on 1024x768 will drive you INSANE with palettes).
i don't have the money to spend right now, anyway, but when i do, i will buy a computer that does what i need it to do at the time, with room to grow, expand, and upgrade gracefully. the laptops and imacs have a professional lifespan of 3 years tops, what with bloatware from the big thrid parties, more awsome games you want to play, etc. i would say a powerbook or imac comsumer lifespan is probably 3-5 years (high-end gaming notwithstanding)... as it probably should be.
it would not surprise that if in many cases apple uses cheaper parts than dell</strong><hr></blockquote>
I doubt that. Dell is on the cheap, cheap, cheap. We've had software vendors rip our IT department a new one for burdening us with Dell hardware becuase the components just aren't up to the task for CAD/AEC work. You know what? They're right.
I need a new Mac to replace my PowerMac 6500. When I saw the price on the new Dual 1.25 & the 20" display I was ready to buy. I decided to wait and see what the iMac update was like. Well All I can say is that I heading to the apple store in NH to buy the new 17" iMac.
The faster bus speed, 4X superdrive, 80 Gig 7200 HD, 64Mb Gforce MX4. Im sold add 199.99 for Office X and for $2000 im ready to go. I will have buy a memory upgrade. but I will add another 512 and I sould be all set.
[quote]As far as the DealRAM prices: Yes, Apple makes a profit on RAM upgrades. No, you can't compare the RAM they use to the cheapest crap available. <hr></blockquote>
500% mark-up isn't profit. It's highway robbery.
edit: so is making you buy a PowerMac to have FW2!
Maybe RAM is cheap just now for normal customers, but maybe not then when Apple has to buy a lot of RAMs. Apple has to buy RAM before production starts. It means at least 4-6 months before start.
Sales increases will be a blip on both the iMac and eMac. Both still too expensive for what they offer and the majority of consumers do NOT want an all in one computer. Only one thing could boost Apple sales and increase market share-An upgradeable tower for no more than $999. JMHO.........................
<strong>Sales increases will be a blip on both the iMac and eMac. Both still too expensive for what they offer and the majority of consumers do NOT want an all in one computer. Only one thing could boost Apple sales and increase market share-An upgradeable tower for no more than $999. JMHO.........................</strong><hr></blockquote>
Most consumers do not need or want a tower. My experiance with consumers doing upgrades is that they up their memory. The iMac was a hit because it want the consumers wanted. If you do need another harddrive they can use their firewire for an external drive.
The people who want a cheap tower are gamers and semiprofessional who will upgrade graphic card, harddrives, etc.
The professional will upgrade by buying new tower and moving the older system to their accounting or billing department.
I see the new 17" iMac a very good consumer product, as well as their iBooks and even the 12" Powerbook is good consumer product.
Most consumers do not need or want a tower. My experiance with consumers doing upgrades is that they up their memory. The iMac was a hit because it want the consumers wanted. If you do need another harddrive they can use their firewire for an external drive.
The people who want a cheap tower are gamers and semiprofessional who will upgrade graphic card, harddrives, etc.
The professional will upgrade by buying new tower and moving the older system to their accounting or billing department.
I see the new 17" iMac a very good consumer product, as well as their iBooks and even the 12" Powerbook is good consumer product.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually the people that want a tower are the majority of consumers. iMac sales started off strong from sales to core Apple users then died off quite quickly. Their hardware is unimpressive to say the least, however if the current PowerMac G4 1Ghz were priced at $999 now that would be a winner............................................ .......
Comments
<strong>
Adding some more RAM will really hurt them, right?
Maybe RAM is cheap just now for normal customers, but maybe not then when Apple has to buy a lot of RAMs. Apple has to buy RAM before production starts. It means at least 4-6 months before start.
[ 02-05-2003: Message edited by: Stratosfear ]</p>
<strong>These new iMacs are great, some people dont know the value of money.</strong><hr></blockquote>
yes.... very true of mac users
<strong>
Maybe RAM is cheap just now for normal customers, but maybe not then when Apple has to buy a lot of RAMs. Apple has to buy RAM before production starts. It means at least 4-6 months before start.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
The actual reason Apple underequips their low-end machines with RAM is because they have a strict minimum advertized price that prevents resellers from undercutting each other by more than a few bucks. So instead, they set things up so that the reseller can throw in 128MB FREE! and have it be an attractive offer rather than, say, another 128MB on top of the 512MB already installed.
As far as the DealRAM prices: Yes, Apple makes a profit on RAM upgrades. No, you can't compare the RAM they use to the cheapest crap available.
[ 02-05-2003: Message edited by: Amorph ]</p>
Another example of this inconsistency is to have touted Quartz Extreme, then to have turned around and sold OSX systems with video cards that didn't support QE. One of the benefits of Apple is supposed to be that because they make the computer and the software, integration is better, and it generally is. But for the price, baseline configurations on all machines should be able to implement iLife and QE.
I can imagine how slow a basline machine would feel running OSX with 128MB and a non-QE video card - re-size a window and smoke-em if you got'em....
[ 02-05-2003: Message edited by: SerpentFruit ]</p>
and, lo and behold, i was pretty darn close, huh?
like i said before, this is not new with apple... my imac dv se was, at the time, the desktop equivalent -- part for part -- of the powerbook at the time. only with a 1024x768 max resolution crt display instead of an lcd. now you can't even make that distinction anymore.
so the imac is a pretty darn good deal. if you want a 17" powerbook, yet look at the 17" imacs specs, unless you can make a very good case for portability for your work, the imac is pretty good (though it does bug me about the no-multiple-monitor thing, which is ultimately why i gave up on my imac... dreamweaver on 1024x768 will drive you INSANE with palettes).
i don't have the money to spend right now, anyway, but when i do, i will buy a computer that does what i need it to do at the time, with room to grow, expand, and upgrade gracefully. the laptops and imacs have a professional lifespan of 3 years tops, what with bloatware from the big thrid parties, more awsome games you want to play, etc. i would say a powerbook or imac comsumer lifespan is probably 3-5 years (high-end gaming notwithstanding)... as it probably should be.
[ 02-05-2003: Message edited by: rok ]</p>
<strong>These new iMacs are great, some people dont know the value of money.</strong><hr></blockquote>
True.
Apple must come down with prices, but it's not possibel to reach prices as dell has.
Good quality means higher price. It's quite simple.
I think it roxxors
Great value compared to other offerings by Apple.
<strong>
True.
Apple must come down with prices, but it's not possibel to reach prices as dell has.
Good quality means higher price. It's quite simple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
it would not surprise that if in many cases apple uses cheaper parts than dell
<strong>
it would not surprise that if in many cases apple uses cheaper parts than dell</strong><hr></blockquote>
I doubt that. Dell is on the cheap, cheap, cheap. We've had software vendors rip our IT department a new one for burdening us with Dell hardware becuase the components just aren't up to the task for CAD/AEC work. You know what? They're right.
The faster bus speed, 4X superdrive, 80 Gig 7200 HD, 64Mb Gforce MX4. Im sold add 199.99 for Office X and for $2000 im ready to go. I will have buy a memory upgrade. but I will add another 512 and I sould be all set.
500% mark-up isn't profit. It's highway robbery.
edit: so is making you buy a PowerMac to have FW2!
[ 02-06-2003: Message edited by: Aquatic ]</p>
<strong>
Maybe RAM is cheap just now for normal customers, but maybe not then when Apple has to buy a lot of RAMs. Apple has to buy RAM before production starts. It means at least 4-6 months before start.
[ 02-05-2003: Message edited by: Stratosfear ]</strong><hr></blockquote>
Aren't things usually cheaper when purchased in large quantities <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
[ 02-06-2003: Message edited by: Kali ]</p>
<strong>Sales increases will be a blip on both the iMac and eMac. Both still too expensive for what they offer and the majority of consumers do NOT want an all in one computer. Only one thing could boost Apple sales and increase market share-An upgradeable tower for no more than $999. JMHO.........................</strong><hr></blockquote>
Most consumers do not need or want a tower. My experiance with consumers doing upgrades is that they up their memory. The iMac was a hit because it want the consumers wanted. If you do need another harddrive they can use their firewire for an external drive.
The people who want a cheap tower are gamers and semiprofessional who will upgrade graphic card, harddrives, etc.
The professional will upgrade by buying new tower and moving the older system to their accounting or billing department.
I see the new 17" iMac a very good consumer product, as well as their iBooks and even the 12" Powerbook is good consumer product.
<strong>
Most consumers do not need or want a tower. My experiance with consumers doing upgrades is that they up their memory. The iMac was a hit because it want the consumers wanted. If you do need another harddrive they can use their firewire for an external drive.
The people who want a cheap tower are gamers and semiprofessional who will upgrade graphic card, harddrives, etc.
The professional will upgrade by buying new tower and moving the older system to their accounting or billing department.
I see the new 17" iMac a very good consumer product, as well as their iBooks and even the 12" Powerbook is good consumer product.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually the people that want a tower are the majority of consumers. iMac sales started off strong from sales to core Apple users then died off quite quickly. Their hardware is unimpressive to say the least, however if the current PowerMac G4 1Ghz were priced at $999 now that would be a winner............................................ .......