Some folks are unhappy because it seems clear from the new forum titles ("iTunes + iPod", "Applications", "Retail Discussion") that the goal was to integrate more closely with front page news, not to improve the community. Pigeonholing all non-Apple talk into one giant super-forum (with sub-forums) fits into this plan, in that it enhances the impression that non-Apple talk is ancillary to the community, and (at some level) undesired. The community, which exists to provide ad-views, should center on the news, not itself. Folks have brought up the old split because (whatever the personality conflicts involved) it seems like the same story - does the community exist for itself, or for the news site?
Many folks, including myself, frequent here because it's one of the few places on the web you can have non-inane discussions about interesting topics, inside and outside the world of tech. Lots of thing only tangentially related, or completely unrelated, to the world of Apple. If you/we/they try to discourage that, you risk the place becoming just another boring fan-boy site. But maybe that would be better for ad-views. What do I know?
Edit: I made the same argument when PO was created, and I think it's been proven true. The political threads <i>have</i> become more inbred in PO, AO is rarely interesting anymore, and I think the overall vibrancy of the non-rumor parts of the forums has taken a hit. The trade-off is that new users need not be scared off by the titles of thread topics, unless they venture into that particular attic. That is surely a valid concern. But it's unique to the political/religious nature of PO. I don't see a similar positive trade-off for putting all non-Apple threads into an attic, while I suspect the effect on vibrancy will be the same.
When PO was not there, people use to complain every day, that this discussion should stop, and that they could not stand AO anymore. Some poeple also claimed that they want to be able to discuss about politic, while other wanted to get rid of them.
When PO was not there, people use to complain every day, that this discussion should stop, and that they could not stand AO anymore. Some poeple also claimed that they want to be able to discuss about politic, while other wanted to get rid of them.
Right. Which is why the creation of PO was a "command decision", with valid arguments both for and against. The "against" argument is the same now. But what's the "for", unless it's the obvious?
Some folks are unhappy because it seems clear from the new forum titles ("iTunes + iPod", "Applications", "Retail Discussion") that the goal was to integrate more closely with front page news, not to improve the community.
That is not true in any way.
What interest do you think any of us (except Kasper) have in the front page?
iPod+iTunes is a good spinoff because those are huge topics all their own. It's a unique relationship between a piece of hardware and a piece of software and it is Apple's bread and butter right now. I really don't understand how making an "iPod+iTunes" forum was part of some money grab, it's tin-foil hat conspiracy.
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If you/we/they try to discourage that, you risk the place becoming just another boring fan-boy site. But maybe that would be better for ad-views. What do I know?
How is this discouraging anyone from talking about anything they want?
Pigeonholing all non-Apple talk into one giant super-forum (with sub-forums) fits into this plan, in that it enhances the impression that non-Apple talk is ancillary to the community, and (at some level) undesired.
I just don't understand how you make the leap to that conclusion at all. If we combine Future Hardware with Current Hardware, does that imply that the admins and mods are discouraging talk about Apple hardware? If we add another forum called Fantasy Hardware, does it imply that people should focus more on the hardware?
If anything, I'd like fewer forums all around because it means less hair splitting over what's appropriate where, and how to find or start certain topics. It's less narrow minded IMO.
What interest do you think any of us (except Kasper) have in the front page?
None. At the same time what controlling interest do any of you have in the forum layout? None.
The changes come off as being driven by the front page (which as you've stated few people have much interest in) and not driven by the community.
It seems there's a bit of a communication problem. Who's idea was it to merge, converge, and split out the current forums? Doesn't seem like there was much preamble to the change, and everyone knows people are shocked by change.
Best to cushion the blow with a heads up and a little warning first, or ask opinions before hand.
But now it just doesn't make sense. Groverat was complaining about 14 active threads in AO and GD combined. Then please explain the creation of the Retail Discussions and Creative Corner forums. Please, it's just insane. When people say one thing and do exactly the opposite, it looks like they are lying about their original motivation for making the change.
Retail Discussions was a decision out of our realm.
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CC was a lark idea from the admins/mods. It's an experiment in the truest sense of the word. I contend that if we provide a space for people to show their work it will move along; slowly, but I think it will move along.
You mention Leonis... how many years ago was that? I'm not even exaggerating, I think that's 2001/2002. 3 or 4 years ago. Are you telling me that he was the only artist on this Apple forum? No way.
If no one participates it will wither away and die, I really don't see how it hurts to give it a shot. If it works it will be awesome because people will be expressing their creativity and it will be a source of good things. Goodness for the sake of goodness.
It's a forum for users to show off their art (something they aren't doing now). It's not a forum to talk about raping your family.
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You can't tell me AO and GD were combined to integrate dying forums, only to create two dead from the gates forums.
I guess it's good then that I've said repeatedly that integrating them to speed them up wasn't the only reason it was done. You act like this hasn't been explained in great detail. It has, you simply choose not to read.
Let me quote myself from 1:11 pm today:
"The main goal behind the GD/AO merger is to drive the crazies out and make the community more close-knit. It's strategerie."
The main goal...
I really don't know how many times I have to answer the exact same question before it becomes obvious that the words I type are there for a reason.
I eagerly await: "Well if the whole reason is because they were slow..."
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The forums were perfect before. Well, except for Genius Bar.
The exodus of users since even before the big split would indicate that your perception of "perfect" might be pretty far off.
I already have. I've consolidated my mom and my dad and called them 'The Lounge' without asking my brothers.
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Originally posted by groverat
Retail Discussions was a decision out of our realm.
AI is structured like this:
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This is the point. I'm with Towel. It's not that we don't want 'Retail Discussion.' We don't even understand why we've got the damn thing in the first place! This, clearly, was a decision made without The Community in mind. Whatever was going through the owners' minds when they thought this up, it just wasn't for our benefit.
I already have. I've consolidated my mom and my dad and called them 'The Lounge' without asking my brothers.
That got me laughing so hard the wife came in here. She asked for an explanation, and upon receiving it she rolled her eyes and said, "I married such a nerd."
THANKS FOR RUINING MY MARRIAGE YOU BIG JERKFACE!
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Whatever was going through the owners' minds when they thought this up, it just wasn't for our benefit.
From the little I know, it was actually going to be pretty cool. Not born out of the community, but definitely something the community would have liked. Unfortunately, it looks like the whole deal is in flux.
That got me laughing so hard the wife came in here. She asked for an explanation, and upon receiving it she rolled her eyes and said, "I married such a nerd."
THANKS FOR RUINING MY MARRIAGE YOU BIG JERKFACE!
Yeah, I get that too from the girlfriend. Sigh. If they could only realize what cool virtual conversations and friendships we've formed throughout the years with complete strangers over the internet! Okay, maybe they're right.
"The main goal behind the GD/AO merger is to drive the crazies out and make the community more close-knit. It's strategerie."
i feel closer already. when are you guys coming over. just out of curiosity, did anybody even bother to ask the crazies to leave so we could avoid all this hugging? i'm pretty sure they would listen to reason.
As I envision self-moderation, pfflam would pull up giant for behaving inappropriately towards dmz.
This is totally 3 pages ago, but it should be noted that I like dmz and have said so a number of times. He's one of the few people that post in AO with a sense of humor. There are only a few people I don't like and it's because they compulsively lie.
As far as the forum overall, I've noticed an increase in good threads over the past couple months, but they almost exclusively have involved kickaha. Creative Corner sounds pretty corny and seems like it's trying to create community in the way Perl does OO. \ But Perl still works so maybe CC will. BTW, if the forum is CC, maybe everything submitted should be CC
i feel closer already. when are you guys coming over. just out of curiosity, did anybody even bother to ask the crazies to leave so we could avoid all this hugging? i'm pretty sure they would listen to reason.
Comments
Originally posted by Towel
Some folks are unhappy because it seems clear from the new forum titles ("iTunes + iPod", "Applications", "Retail Discussion") that the goal was to integrate more closely with front page news, not to improve the community. Pigeonholing all non-Apple talk into one giant super-forum (with sub-forums) fits into this plan, in that it enhances the impression that non-Apple talk is ancillary to the community, and (at some level) undesired. The community, which exists to provide ad-views, should center on the news, not itself. Folks have brought up the old split because (whatever the personality conflicts involved) it seems like the same story - does the community exist for itself, or for the news site?
Many folks, including myself, frequent here because it's one of the few places on the web you can have non-inane discussions about interesting topics, inside and outside the world of tech. Lots of thing only tangentially related, or completely unrelated, to the world of Apple. If you/we/they try to discourage that, you risk the place becoming just another boring fan-boy site. But maybe that would be better for ad-views. What do I know?
Edit: I made the same argument when PO was created, and I think it's been proven true. The political threads <i>have</i> become more inbred in PO, AO is rarely interesting anymore, and I think the overall vibrancy of the non-rumor parts of the forums has taken a hit. The trade-off is that new users need not be scared off by the titles of thread topics, unless they venture into that particular attic. That is surely a valid concern. But it's unique to the political/religious nature of PO. I don't see a similar positive trade-off for putting all non-Apple threads into an attic, while I suspect the effect on vibrancy will be the same.
When PO was not there, people use to complain every day, that this discussion should stop, and that they could not stand AO anymore. Some poeple also claimed that they want to be able to discuss about politic, while other wanted to get rid of them.
Originally posted by Powerdoc
When PO was not there, people use to complain every day, that this discussion should stop, and that they could not stand AO anymore. Some poeple also claimed that they want to be able to discuss about politic, while other wanted to get rid of them.
Right. Which is why the creation of PO was a "command decision", with valid arguments both for and against. The "against" argument is the same now. But what's the "for", unless it's the obvious?
Originally posted by Towel
Some folks are unhappy because it seems clear from the new forum titles ("iTunes + iPod", "Applications", "Retail Discussion") that the goal was to integrate more closely with front page news, not to improve the community.
That is not true in any way.
What interest do you think any of us (except Kasper) have in the front page?
iPod+iTunes is a good spinoff because those are huge topics all their own. It's a unique relationship between a piece of hardware and a piece of software and it is Apple's bread and butter right now. I really don't understand how making an "iPod+iTunes" forum was part of some money grab, it's tin-foil hat conspiracy.
If you/we/they try to discourage that, you risk the place becoming just another boring fan-boy site. But maybe that would be better for ad-views. What do I know?
How is this discouraging anyone from talking about anything they want?
Originally posted by Towel
Pigeonholing all non-Apple talk into one giant super-forum (with sub-forums) fits into this plan, in that it enhances the impression that non-Apple talk is ancillary to the community, and (at some level) undesired.
I just don't understand how you make the leap to that conclusion at all. If we combine Future Hardware with Current Hardware, does that imply that the admins and mods are discouraging talk about Apple hardware? If we add another forum called Fantasy Hardware, does it imply that people should focus more on the hardware?
If anything, I'd like fewer forums all around because it means less hair splitting over what's appropriate where, and how to find or start certain topics. It's less narrow minded IMO.
Originally posted by groverat
That is not true in any way.
What interest do you think any of us (except Kasper) have in the front page?
None. At the same time what controlling interest do any of you have in the forum layout? None.
The changes come off as being driven by the front page (which as you've stated few people have much interest in) and not driven by the community.
It seems there's a bit of a communication problem. Who's idea was it to merge, converge, and split out the current forums? Doesn't seem like there was much preamble to the change, and everyone knows people are shocked by change.
Best to cushion the blow with a heads up and a little warning first, or ask opinions before hand.
Originally posted by alcimedes
None. At the same time what controlling interest do any of you have in the forum layout? None.
I have a personal interest in the board flourishing and being a positive place for people to visit and interact.
I couldn't tell you for the life of me what's even on the front page. My bookmark is "http://forums.appleinsider.com".
The changes come off as being driven by the front page (which as you've stated few people have much interest in) and not driven by the community.
I simply cannot understand how it would be driven by the front page so we didn't even think of that being a potential perception.
Miscommunication to be sure. I had no idea.
Who's idea was it to merge, converge, and split out the current forums?
Ours.
in the Future and Current Hardware threads
to help separate iPod, iMac, PowerMac and Laptop and accessory discussions.
Otherwise we have to deal with " yet another G5 PB thread " or "yet another iPod thread"
and so on.
Mixed product discussions might go in a "Help me choose" forum.
Just a thought
But now it just doesn't make sense. Groverat was complaining about 14 active threads in AO and GD combined. Then please explain the creation of the Retail Discussions and Creative Corner forums. Please, it's just insane. When people say one thing and do exactly the opposite, it looks like they are lying about their original motivation for making the change.
Retail Discussions was a decision out of our realm.
AI is structured like this:
owners
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
admins
|
mods
members
CC was a lark idea from the admins/mods. It's an experiment in the truest sense of the word. I contend that if we provide a space for people to show their work it will move along; slowly, but I think it will move along.
You mention Leonis... how many years ago was that? I'm not even exaggerating, I think that's 2001/2002. 3 or 4 years ago. Are you telling me that he was the only artist on this Apple forum? No way.
If no one participates it will wither away and die, I really don't see how it hurts to give it a shot. If it works it will be awesome because people will be expressing their creativity and it will be a source of good things. Goodness for the sake of goodness.
It's a forum for users to show off their art (something they aren't doing now). It's not a forum to talk about raping your family.
You can't tell me AO and GD were combined to integrate dying forums, only to create two dead from the gates forums.
I guess it's good then that I've said repeatedly that integrating them to speed them up wasn't the only reason it was done. You act like this hasn't been explained in great detail. It has, you simply choose not to read.
Let me quote myself from 1:11 pm today:
"The main goal behind the GD/AO merger is to drive the crazies out and make the community more close-knit. It's strategerie."
The main goal...
I really don't know how many times I have to answer the exact same question before it becomes obvious that the words I type are there for a reason.
I eagerly await: "Well if the whole reason is because they were slow..."
The forums were perfect before. Well, except for Genius Bar.
The exodus of users since even before the big split would indicate that your perception of "perfect" might be pretty far off.
Originally posted by groverat
I'll re-think your mom.
I already have. I've consolidated my mom and my dad and called them 'The Lounge' without asking my brothers.
Originally posted by groverat
Retail Discussions was a decision out of our realm.
AI is structured like this:
owners
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
admins
|
mods
members
This is the point. I'm with Towel. It's not that we don't want 'Retail Discussion.' We don't even understand why we've got the damn thing in the first place! This, clearly, was a decision made without The Community in mind. Whatever was going through the owners' minds when they thought this up, it just wasn't for our benefit.
Originally posted by Hassan i Sabbah
I already have. I've consolidated my mom and my dad and called them 'The Lounge' without asking my brothers.
That got me laughing so hard the wife came in here. She asked for an explanation, and upon receiving it she rolled her eyes and said, "I married such a nerd."
THANKS FOR RUINING MY MARRIAGE YOU BIG JERKFACE!
Whatever was going through the owners' minds when they thought this up, it just wasn't for our benefit.
From the little I know, it was actually going to be pretty cool. Not born out of the community, but definitely something the community would have liked. Unfortunately, it looks like the whole deal is in flux.
We'll know Real Soon Now.
Originally posted by groverat
That got me laughing so hard the wife came in here. She asked for an explanation, and upon receiving it she rolled her eyes and said, "I married such a nerd."
THANKS FOR RUINING MY MARRIAGE YOU BIG JERKFACE!
Yeah, I get that too from the girlfriend. Sigh. If they could only realize what cool virtual conversations and friendships we've formed throughout the years with complete strangers over the internet! Okay, maybe they're right.
Originally posted by the rat
"The main goal behind the GD/AO merger is to drive the crazies out and make the community more close-knit. It's strategerie."
i feel closer already. when are you guys coming over. just out of curiosity, did anybody even bother to ask the crazies to leave so we could avoid all this hugging? i'm pretty sure they would listen to reason.
Originally posted by groverat
THANKS FOR RUINING MY MARRIAGE YOU BIG JERKFACE!
You don't know the half of it.
OK, on reflection that's not something you say to someone who hasn't even been married for six months.
But it's a good joke, so I'm posting it anyway.
Originally posted by crazychester
As I envision self-moderation, pfflam would pull up giant for behaving inappropriately towards dmz.
This is totally 3 pages ago, but it should be noted that I like dmz and have said so a number of times. He's one of the few people that post in AO with a sense of humor. There are only a few people I don't like and it's because they compulsively lie.
As far as the forum overall, I've noticed an increase in good threads over the past couple months, but they almost exclusively have involved kickaha. Creative Corner sounds pretty corny and seems like it's trying to create community in the way Perl does OO.
Originally posted by running with scissors
i feel closer already. when are you guys coming over. just out of curiosity, did anybody even bother to ask the crazies to leave so we could avoid all this hugging? i'm pretty sure they would listen to reason.
Or why not just baninate the "crazies"?
Baby != Bathwater
Originally posted by curiousuburb
Or why not just baninate the "crazies"?
Baby != Bathwater
dog != chewed up shoe
Originally posted by curiousuburb
Or why not just baninate the "crazies"?
There would be 2 posters left.
And I couldn't ban anyone after I banned myself.
Originally posted by Dave K.
So. Who are the owners of this site?
I don't know, and I am happy to ignore it.
Don't you think that AI have enough troubles ?