Mac OS X 10.4 "Tiger" reaches final candidate stage

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Comments

  • Reply 41 of 71
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by GregAlexander

    Hi Kickaha, I assume you're responding to my "OSX 10.4-express" wish?Are you saying that moving to 10.4 is going to break lots of old apps? If so, I hadn't heard that (this may affect my girlfriend who has some old software and classic stuff too).



    No, not at all, only that apps that use the new technologies will never work on the older systems.



    Quote:

    Otherwise I'm not sure why a lite version that turns off the new features but updates the underlying OS (part of which is free in Darwin anyway) wouldn't be feasible. (Note I say it may be feasible, quite a different thing to being likely!)



    Because testing all the old upper-level code on the new base would be a NIGHTMARE. I can't imagine the logistics involved, nor can I imagine the support nightmares that would come with it.



    Quote:

    I take your point that the new Apps that require 10.4 would force people to upgrade, and this may be Apple's desire. I'm sure some people who would've bought 10.4 would take a free 10.4-express if it was an option (I doubt that any goodwill, consistency, compatibility, etc would offset that).



    A few very well might, but I can't imagine that Apple would ever be able to recoup the loss from the testing alone from those few. Simply not economically worth the technical trouble.
  • Reply 42 of 71
    Quote:

    Originally posted by ipodandimac

    uh thats why they do 10.3.x updates.



    Sorry, no idea how that addresses what I said. For instance, how do 10.3.x updates address giving users access to apps requiring core-video, or standardise support and security updates across 10.1/10.2/10.3/10.4?
  • Reply 43 of 71
    hmurchisonhmurchison Posts: 12,294member
    Yup



    get used to "Requires OS X 10.4 and above". Also I expect to see Apple make a concerted attempt to move most users to Tiger. I wouldn't be suprised to see deals and special bundles. The rest of the stubborn folks will begin to be left behind.



    As Kickaha says...Tiger is a MASSIVE change. I'm still amazed that some people cannot see how vast this update is. Damn near everything has been tweaked. The negative is that apps will have to be updated but let's be honest. Plenty of developers have the updates ready. Tiger has only been available to many for what 9 months. Any developer that is seriously behind should be flogged.



    Tiger is the OS that we can use for the next 3 years with just a few tweaks in the process. This is where Apple has wanted to be IMO. Tiger is the foundation for the apps they want to see on the platform.
  • Reply 44 of 71
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Yup, this is just the start of something huge. Everything up until now (10.0 through 10.3) has just been a teaser, IMO.



    I expect 10.5 will serve up a raft of technologies aimed right at the end user, built on the dev techs we're going to see in 10.4. Should be interesting.
  • Reply 45 of 71
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    testing all the old upper-level code on the new base would be a NIGHTMARE. I can't imagine the logistics involved, nor can I imagine the support nightmares that would come with it.



    Yes that would be an awful idea. Instead of that, I mean use 10.4, but just switch off some of the great user-features that Tiger offers so that the "lite" version, as much as possible, helps Apple and application developers get what they need, while giving the user as little extra as possible so they'll still buy the full blown version.



    The idea is to satisfy 2 goals

    1. get people upgrading to Tiger as per usual, AND

    2. get the people who won't pay to upgrade, to have an alternative so there is a single OS base to develop for.



    Hell, I'll be upgrading. I certainly wish I could say that for some other people I know.
  • Reply 46 of 71
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't much of the information in this article protected by non-disclosure agreements? Aren't you blatantly publishing stolen trade secrets?
  • Reply 47 of 71
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Well, except that by doing that (stripping out all the 10.4 APIs), you're essentially forcing developers to target the old APIs *anyway* to get some of the market, so you're not gaining anything.



    People will upgrade when they see a reason to, and not a second sooner. If 10.4 and the upcoming apps don't do it, nothing will.
  • Reply 48 of 71
    gene cleangene clean Posts: 3,481member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by tallswede

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't much of the information in this article protected by non-disclosure agreements? Aren't you blatantly publishing stolen trade secrets?



    How so? The article clearly states that nothing is sure, and that it's only speculation based on some peoples words. Surely rumours are allowed in AppleLand are they not? Oh, wait...
  • Reply 49 of 71
    macnut222macnut222 Posts: 100member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gene Clean

    How so? The article clearly states that nothing is sure, and that it's only speculation based on some peoples words. Surely rumours are allowed in AppleLand are they not? Oh, wait...



    Of course rumors and speculation are 'allowed' in AppleLand. Leaking information on unannounced products (regardless of the company), however, is not.
  • Reply 50 of 71
    Quote:

    Originally posted by macnut222

    Of course rumors and speculation are 'allowed' in AppleLand. Leaking information on unannounced products (regardless of the company), however, is not.



    What leaked information do you see on the thread??? As far as I know, everything talked about in this thread is information you can obtain from Apple themselves by simply going to their website and looking at their own descriptions of the new OS...



    I don't see the leak???

  • Reply 51 of 71
    aplnubaplnub Posts: 2,596member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by hmurchison

    The negative is that apps will have to be updated but let's be honest. Plenty of developers have the updates ready.



    Does this mean I have to go through a Adobe CS update, FCP Pro, DVD Studio Pro, and MS Office 2004, etc. updates so they will work under Tiger?



    Eric
  • Reply 52 of 71
    kickahakickaha Posts: 8,760member
    Almost certainly, no, but you will have to update to get any new features... of which you can expect many.
  • Reply 53 of 71
    squeaksqueak Posts: 26member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by webmail

    Tiger will NOT be released on April 1st. Unless they are playing on tiger being a "joke". What kinda omen would that be releasing your latest product on April Fool's Day? It would on the other hand be the perfect date to convince thinksecret.com it was coming out on.... ;-)



    Google announced GMail on April 1st.
  • Reply 54 of 71
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    Well, except that by doing that (stripping out all the 10.4 APIs), you're essentially forcing developers to target the old APIs *anyway* to get some of the market, so you're not gaining anything.



    I take it that you see no way of making a 10.4 that doesn't have all the bells and whistles, yet still runs newer 10.4 applications. Ahh well!

    Quote:

    Originally posted by Kickaha

    People will upgrade when they see a reason to, and not a second sooner. If 10.4 and the upcoming apps don't do it, nothing will.



    It was just a thought :-)
  • Reply 55 of 71
    Quote:

    Originally posted by AgNuke1707

    What leaked information do you see on the thread??? As far as I know, everything talked about in this thread is information you can obtain from Apple themselves by simply going to their website and looking at their own descriptions of the new OS...



    I don't see the leak???





    I didn't mean that there were any leaks in this thread (because there aren't). I was referring to rumors in general.
  • Reply 56 of 71
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by aplnub

    Does this mean I have to go through a Adobe CS update, FCP Pro, DVD Studio Pro, and MS Office 2004, etc. updates so they will work under Tiger?



    Eric




    Nope, the old apps will work, but the updates will optimize the apps for things like core*, and maybe add app-specific dashboard and spotlight plugins for example
  • Reply 57 of 71
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Squeak

    Google announced GMail on April 1st.



    yeah, and remember how everyone on the internet thought it was a huge-ass hoax? releasing stuff on april 1st can be a difficult sell job. at least tiger has lots of build-up, so people now it's legit. gmail came out of nowhere with a ridiculous amount of storage space compared to its competitors -- it was so "too good to be true" that everyone, well, assumed it was, and april 1st helped that undercurrent of disbelief.
  • Reply 58 of 71
    rokrok Posts: 3,519member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by GregAlexander

    Sorry, no idea how that addresses what I said. For instance, how do 10.3.x updates address giving users access to apps requiring core-video, or standardise support and security updates across 10.1/10.2/10.3/10.4?



    i believe, if i may be so bold, he was simply replying to your comment which seemed to focus on compatibility with CURRENT apps as being a critical feature. therefore, the latest issue of panther should satisfy those needs if they are foremost on your checklist, and until new hardware actually starts shipping with tiger by default, the consumer does assume a little bit of responsibility right now to know ahead of time whether somethign will seriously break... or not be surprised if it does.



    so, for instance, there are no apps right now requiring core video or spotlight, etc. and if you want new apps that do, you'll be signing on for the upgrade to tiger. also, as we have seen over the past year or so, apple has been issuing security updates outside the ".x.y" releases for everyone's safety. well, except those still clinging to os X.0 or X.1, but honestly, i think there ae fewer users of those updates than classic these days.



    personally, i'd hate to see apple try to split up their os offerings into the seventeen-headed monstrosity that windows keeps doing to increase their profits (of course, ms also doesn't do it to maintain compatibility... it's more of just a trick to get you to spend something... ANYthing... on another windows upgrade).



    i will be interested to see if classic can still be run under tiger. one would assume that, if it's running now, there'd be no reason to break it. certainly finding a classic install cd is becoming almost impossible to find these days, and apple would rather it fade like a bad dream or a broken relationship, and i wouldn't be surprised if they give tiger a classic-ectomy.
  • Reply 59 of 71
    Why do people seem to think Tiger will "break" their apps...?



    It will not "break" anything... it will run them all the same as they run in Panther now UNLESS an application update or upgrade utilizes features ONLY AVAILABLE in Tiger... and then just THAT update will require Tiger.



    Think "backwards compatable" (yes, there are always exceptions). But your PShop CS will work just fine... but if the UPCOMING CS2 release utilizes features ONLY AVAILABLE in Tiger... core image or offloading some functions to the GPU... then you will need tiger to USE those features or get the benefit... but it will STILL WORK in Panther.



    Tiger is not a ploy to get you all to "upgrade-all-your-apps"... that'd piss everyone off and not many people would buy the new OS when they found out. You'll be fine.



  • Reply 60 of 71
    a_greera_greer Posts: 4,594member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Scott Finlayson



    Tiger is not a ploy to get you all to "upgrade-all-your-apps"... that'd piss everyone off and not many people would buy the new OS when they found out. You'll be fine.







    the only time a major OS update on any platform will break stuff, there is a huge change involved like going from that crap Mac/OS codebase to the 5.5BSD base in OSX or from windows 9x kernal to nt5.1-based stuff in XP.



    minor updates, like point releses (jag->panther or win NT4->2000 or XP) or old-to-new version updates (os8->os9 or win 95->98 ) do not break many things at all, breaking things is not in a vendors interest at all.



    When an update is to break things, the vendors make a way for stuff to work, emmulation i n windows or Classic in the Mac OSX enviornment



    Your shit will work, let not your heart be troubled.
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