If you must get a PC, I wouldn't reccomend a Dell. It's more expensive than other brands while not being a better machine.
Frankly, the troubles in the Windows PC world keep me working but also keep me from ever considering a Windows PC for home use.
But what I usually tell people is that if you're using this Windows machine for basically one thing (ie Internet/email, or video, or 3-D, or whatever) but only that one thing, it will most likely be just fine. Just don't ever try to do 3 things on the machine and don't be fooled into thinking upgrading it is easy or cheap. As the primary machine, the do-all machine, it would be a bigger disaster than an Apple and more often than an Apple. As a second machine, it would probably be fine.
EDIT: That said, an emac/iMac is a better second machine in my opinion anyway (eyesite software not included.) You might not need the monitor, but I'm guessing that the iMac LCD or the eMac CRT is better than the one you're going to use with the Windows machine. You could move it to be a second monitor on your Dual 800.
first, get on the phone. dial random numbers until you hear a voice that could only belong to someone elevnteen times your size. give him your name, address, and three major credit card numbers (no, they don't have to be your own... sheesh). tell him to bankrupt you within 24 hours, and to soil your good name by interjecting the term "cockmonger" on frequent occassion when referrign to either you or any close family members, especially when addressing the public on national television.
there, that should keep you busy, poor, destitue, and dell-less. glad i could help. anyone else 'round here need some f'n help?
actually, dell's are consistantly more expensive than other brands when you price them out. i do it on a weekly basis and they're almost always the most expensive. (although they do have individual parts for a great price at times)
i build machines all the time. i buy machines all the time. i don't buy dells anymore. they have too many problems, and their tech support is a bunch of morons.
i couldn't care less about a 3 yr. warrenty if the damn thing takes forever to get repaired properly.
i'd go with a different PC brand if i were going to buy a retail PC. Dell ain't what it used to be.
So why do you want to buy another computer? What do you want to do with it? Play games? Buy a Playstation 2. I still think that Apple makes better computers than the competition. PC are faster. A lot faster. A 700 Mhz emac/imac is equal to a 1.6 Ghz P4, not a 2.4 or 2.8 Ghz P4. If you can live with that fact, and most people can (even if they don't admit it) emacs/imacs are still good buys.
Why do you want another machine? Ask yourself this question first.
Next, you save a lot f money, but you have to use Windoms or Debian or something that's not Mac OS X. You've bought Apples for twenty years. The Dell is going to suck. At school in a certain computer lab I have the choice of using 800Mhz iMacs or 2.8Ghz P4s with 20 inch screens. Guess what. . . I use the macs. Using windows is just a pain in the ass.
The real question hasn't been asked much or answered. What exactly will you do with the machine? What other equipment do you have that you might want to use with it? Do you have, or are you thinking about getting, a digital camera or camcorder any time soon? Do you have any mac formatted external Hard Drives? Do you use Zip and are they formatted mac or PC?
I don't even have a digital camera yet and I've used iPhoto enough to keep me interested. We've done slideshows for presentations, I've ordered a book as a gift, and will probably order prints soon.
I've borrowed digital camcorders to create DVDs as gifts, etc.
There must be some reason you want the firewire, what is it?
Also, what software comes with the Dell? Does it have MP3 software, Video Editing, Photo, etc??? What software do you already have? If you are mac person you may want the windows version of everything so you can always work on either machine.
Finally, how much time do you want to spend fixing the machine? I was hired at my company for Mac knowledge but I spend pretty much ALL my time fixing PCs (yes there are more pcs but it still is out of proportion). It is both hardware and software issues. We order a lot more new parts from Dell than we do from Apple.
If all you want to do is play games, buy a PS2. If you are just browsing the net, look for a referb or new mac (maybe even used, safari doesn't require too much power). What ever you do, DON'T buy the cheap Dells. Move to a better model if you are going Dell!
If you must buy a PC get an IBM. Dell prices look low, but they include crappy on board graphics and a $40 motherboard. Their customer service is going down the tubes also. My sister owned an IBM and they helped me out over the phone even though her warranty was up. The machine didn't have any physical problems either(she's still using it), the problem was software(of course, its winblows).........................
The real question hasn't been asked much or answered. What exactly will you do with the machine? What other equipment do you have that you might want to use with it? Do you have, or are you thinking about getting, a digital camera or camcorder any time soon? Do you have any mac formatted external Hard Drives? Do you use Zip and are they formatted mac or PC?
(snip)
What ever you do, DON'T buy the cheap Dells. Move to a better model if you are going Dell!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Interesting points.
The machine isn't really for me (although it may be nice to be able to futz around with some of the games that come out first for the PC) -- it's for my wife. The only things she's likely to do with it are read e-mail, browse the web and play MP3s. I think it's highly unlikely I would want to connect my camcorder or digital camera to the PC, since my Dual 800 is perfectly fine for photo and video editing. (BTW, I'm not proposing to give up my Mac at all. I love Final Cut Pro, iDVD and iMovie, and have invested a fair amount of time learning After Effects and Photoshop. I have no question that my primary media machine will continue to be a Mac).
I used to have a Zip drive, but gave it up in favor of CD-Rs, and the Toast-created CD-Rs from my Dual 800 work just fine in PCs.
The Dell will come with MP3 software (MusicMatch Jukebox and Windows Media Player) and rudimentary photo software. I don't really want to spend much time fixing the machine, but I haven't been particularly in love with Apple's machines from a quality perspective (don't ask me about the fights with Apple over getting them to live up to their on-site service guarantee, the time they replaced my 60GB hard drive with a 40GB hard drive or the battery life on my iPod, for example). If I got the Dell, I'd probably spring for the two year on site warranty with priority tech support for the first year. On your recommendation, I looked at refurbished PowerMacs on the Apple Store, but the cheapest one they have is $1600, with another $250 to add two years of AppleCare.
The price I listed is for the Dimension 4550, which seems like a perfectly fine machine. I agree that the bottom-of-the-line machine with onboard graphics would probably not be suitable, but I think the 8000-series with RDRAM is probably overkill.
<strong>Seriously though, to save yourself hours of tech support trouble and driver seeking just buy a Mac instead of the PC.</strong><hr></blockquote>
---> When OSX first came out, it didn't even support most optical drives and the list of supported printers was pitifully small (about 25 models supported) Today the situation is much, much better but still totally lacking. If there's one system that will give you less headache (in terms of finding drivers, especially generic drivers) it's Windows my friend, not the Mac!
anyway, one thing I've learned is that chicks dig apple notebooks. My mother used a desktop(s) for a long time until I got her a Titanium. she's in love with it, and I don't think she'll get a desktop again.
If you buy her an iBook, she love you for it. trust me. Females are attracted to the white plastic.
If you don't think I'm serious, you're gravely mistaken.
it's for my wife. The only things she's likely to do with it are read e-mail, browse the web and play MP3s.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are looking at the wrong Mac for your wife if you think she needs a powerMac to do the above. Any Mac at all is totally competent in this field - even the classic G3 iMac. You shouldn't consider anything more powerful than the eMac for those needs - and it will last for years.
The advantage of getting a Mac as your second computer if you already have a mac as the first is in sharing files and transporting application knowhow.
You mentioned though that XP has far better accommodation for your wife's visual challenges and in that case you should absolutely buy her a PC and make her life easier rather than stick with a brand you love which would make her life harder.
Comments
Frankly, the troubles in the Windows PC world keep me working but also keep me from ever considering a Windows PC for home use.
But what I usually tell people is that if you're using this Windows machine for basically one thing (ie Internet/email, or video, or 3-D, or whatever) but only that one thing, it will most likely be just fine. Just don't ever try to do 3 things on the machine and don't be fooled into thinking upgrading it is easy or cheap. As the primary machine, the do-all machine, it would be a bigger disaster than an Apple and more often than an Apple. As a second machine, it would probably be fine.
EDIT: That said, an emac/iMac is a better second machine in my opinion anyway (eyesite software not included.) You might not need the monitor, but I'm guessing that the iMac LCD or the eMac CRT is better than the one you're going to use with the Windows machine. You could move it to be a second monitor on your Dual 800.
[ 02-17-2003: Message edited by: bunge ]</p>
<strong>
Sony's are pretty overpriced for the specs.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yes, but then so are Macs
If you want to buy a PC, get an IBM or Micron. Dell uses the cheapest quality components, has very limited quality control, and generally sucks ass.
there, that should keep you busy, poor, destitue, and dell-less. glad i could help. anyone else 'round here need some f'n help?
next time around, it won't be a problem to convince them.
I sold my 233 p2 a few years back to a friend who until recently was still using it...no problems at all
While building a new machine may save a couple of bucks you don't get the warranty...
I say get the Dell, all computers have problems some times *gasp* even apples. My Dell's were excellent...
Also, whoever said Dell's were the more expensive brands are on crack...Dell's are almost always the least expensive.
Dude, your getting a .....
Good Luck!
i build machines all the time. i buy machines all the time. i don't buy dells anymore. they have too many problems, and their tech support is a bunch of morons.
i couldn't care less about a 3 yr. warrenty if the damn thing takes forever to get repaired properly.
i'd go with a different PC brand if i were going to buy a retail PC. Dell ain't what it used to be.
Next, you save a lot f money, but you have to use Windoms or Debian or something that's not Mac OS X. You've bought Apples for twenty years. The Dell is going to suck. At school in a certain computer lab I have the choice of using 800Mhz iMacs or 2.8Ghz P4s with 20 inch screens. Guess what. . . I use the macs. Using windows is just a pain in the ass.
The real question hasn't been asked much or answered. What exactly will you do with the machine? What other equipment do you have that you might want to use with it? Do you have, or are you thinking about getting, a digital camera or camcorder any time soon? Do you have any mac formatted external Hard Drives? Do you use Zip and are they formatted mac or PC?
I don't even have a digital camera yet and I've used iPhoto enough to keep me interested. We've done slideshows for presentations, I've ordered a book as a gift, and will probably order prints soon.
I've borrowed digital camcorders to create DVDs as gifts, etc.
There must be some reason you want the firewire, what is it?
Also, what software comes with the Dell? Does it have MP3 software, Video Editing, Photo, etc??? What software do you already have? If you are mac person you may want the windows version of everything so you can always work on either machine.
Finally, how much time do you want to spend fixing the machine? I was hired at my company for Mac knowledge but I spend pretty much ALL my time fixing PCs (yes there are more pcs but it still is out of proportion). It is both hardware and software issues. We order a lot more new parts from Dell than we do from Apple.
If all you want to do is play games, buy a PS2. If you are just browsing the net, look for a referb or new mac (maybe even used, safari doesn't require too much power). What ever you do, DON'T buy the cheap Dells. Move to a better model if you are going Dell!
<strong>Osakans,
The real question hasn't been asked much or answered. What exactly will you do with the machine? What other equipment do you have that you might want to use with it? Do you have, or are you thinking about getting, a digital camera or camcorder any time soon? Do you have any mac formatted external Hard Drives? Do you use Zip and are they formatted mac or PC?
(snip)
What ever you do, DON'T buy the cheap Dells. Move to a better model if you are going Dell!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Interesting points.
The machine isn't really for me (although it may be nice to be able to futz around with some of the games that come out first for the PC) -- it's for my wife. The only things she's likely to do with it are read e-mail, browse the web and play MP3s. I think it's highly unlikely I would want to connect my camcorder or digital camera to the PC, since my Dual 800 is perfectly fine for photo and video editing. (BTW, I'm not proposing to give up my Mac at all. I love Final Cut Pro, iDVD and iMovie, and have invested a fair amount of time learning After Effects and Photoshop. I have no question that my primary media machine will continue to be a Mac).
I used to have a Zip drive, but gave it up in favor of CD-Rs, and the Toast-created CD-Rs from my Dual 800 work just fine in PCs.
The Dell will come with MP3 software (MusicMatch Jukebox and Windows Media Player) and rudimentary photo software. I don't really want to spend much time fixing the machine, but I haven't been particularly in love with Apple's machines from a quality perspective (don't ask me about the fights with Apple over getting them to live up to their on-site service guarantee, the time they replaced my 60GB hard drive with a 40GB hard drive or the battery life on my iPod, for example). If I got the Dell, I'd probably spring for the two year on site warranty with priority tech support for the first year. On your recommendation, I looked at refurbished PowerMacs on the Apple Store, but the cheapest one they have is $1600, with another $250 to add two years of AppleCare.
The price I listed is for the Dimension 4550, which seems like a perfectly fine machine. I agree that the bottom-of-the-line machine with onboard graphics would probably not be suitable, but I think the 8000-series with RDRAM is probably overkill.
<strong>Seriously though, to save yourself hours of tech support trouble and driver seeking just buy a Mac instead of the PC.</strong><hr></blockquote>
---> When OSX first came out, it didn't even support most optical drives and the list of supported printers was pitifully small (about 25 models supported) Today the situation is much, much better but still totally lacking. If there's one system that will give you less headache (in terms of finding drivers, especially generic drivers) it's Windows my friend, not the Mac!
You may also like to read this:
<a href="http://www.bangkokpost.com/190203_Database/19Feb2003_datacol51.html"; target="_blank">http://www.bangkokpost.com/190203_Database/19Feb2003_datacol51.html</a>;
I think it's great to critique on technical merit, but not by saying things like "...just buy a Mac..."
anyway, one thing I've learned is that chicks dig apple notebooks. My mother used a desktop(s) for a long time until I got her a Titanium. she's in love with it, and I don't think she'll get a desktop again.
If you buy her an iBook, she love you for it. trust me. Females are attracted to the white plastic.
If you don't think I'm serious, you're gravely mistaken.
<strong>
it's for my wife. The only things she's likely to do with it are read e-mail, browse the web and play MP3s.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
You are looking at the wrong Mac for your wife if you think she needs a powerMac to do the above. Any Mac at all is totally competent in this field - even the classic G3 iMac. You shouldn't consider anything more powerful than the eMac for those needs - and it will last for years.
The advantage of getting a Mac as your second computer if you already have a mac as the first is in sharing files and transporting application knowhow.
You mentioned though that XP has far better accommodation for your wife's visual challenges and in that case you should absolutely buy her a PC and make her life easier rather than stick with a brand you love which would make her life harder.