Keep in mind that DDR is likely to show up, and when it does it will have a very significant effect on performance -- it will be worth a "couple hundred MHz" all by itself.
Everyone clearly remembers the last keynote, and how disappointed everyone in the crowd was. I am equally sure that people remember Steve's supposed comments such as: We really stunk that one up, etc.
What were the speed increases from that? from 733 top to a dual 800 top? (867 if we use MHz only).
Does anyone even remotely think, given those two points above, that Apple would come out with anything resembling the same speed increases and make the type of fuss that they are with their daily hype? Does anyone think that Steve really wants to whip out his weewee and stomp on it even worse than the last keynote?
Cmon... Steve may be an egomaniac, but is he dumb enough to hype up something that flopped once before?
<strong>Keep in mind that DDR is likely to show up, and when it does it will have a very significant effect on performance -- it will be worth a "couple hundred MHz" all by itself.</strong><hr></blockquote>
who cares. PCs have had DDR for 2 years now.
people saying oh well we get DDR RAM at least, shut up. DDR RAM is nothing. it means nothing. Apple should have had DDR RAM back in January.
this is getting to be a joke. the PowerMacs are not professional level machines yet they are priced like workstations. it's not amusing anymore and if Apple doesn't pull out something amazing in terms of performance you can count on dismal PowerMac sales once again.
There is nothing exciting about them anymore. nothing cutting edge. we are constantly catching up. TAKE THE DAMN LEAD FOR ONCE!
people saying oh well we get DDR RAM at least, shut up. DDR RAM is nothing. it means nothing. Apple should have had DDR RAM back in January.
this is getting to be a joke. the PowerMacs are not professional level machines yet they are priced like workstations. it's not amusing anymore and if Apple doesn't pull out something amazing in terms of performance you can count on dismal PowerMac sales once again.
There is nothing exciting about them anymore. nothing cutting edge. we are constantly catching up. TAKE THE DAMN LEAD FOR ONCE!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Dude, either buy a pc and go away or get some therapy.
<strong>Apple should just skip DDR266 and go right to DDR333.</strong><hr></blockquote>I'd be very surprised if the Apollo uses DDR. The current 7451 is at 133, and the Apollo is supposedly just the same chip with SOI. I doubt they'll change the bus speed. It will wait until the G5 comes out in MWSF 2003.
Rumor has it that Apple is doing their own chip design in house. Thus the lack of leaks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That would be nice. A 3GHZ system would be something people might drop jaws about. Imagine a Photoshop demo where the Mac opened the 500MB file, cropped it, un-sharp mask'd it, changed to LAB color all before the Pentium 4 1.8GHZ even opened the file? That would be sweet!
Everyone... take a depth breath. If you are on this board, you have a passion for Apple and the Mac. Despite what happens on Monday. 99.99999% will continue to use Macs.
Do you guys remember these boards in November? Everyone was expecting 1.6 GHz G5s! Now the prevailing expectation is for a top end of 1 (1.33 at the most) GHz G4.
None of us has any idea what Apple is going to introduce specs-wise. We shouldn't pretend that we do. Instead, lets have active, intelligent, coherent discussion on what Apple might produce? We are letting our passion for Apple cloud our judgement.
explain to what's silly besides your nickname?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Clever. What are you, like 12?
Anyway, if you are so convinced that PCs are beter, than buy one. Failure to act on what you know to be factual is either a sign of:
a) neurosis
b) psychosis
c) general idiocy
d) child-like immaturity
Unfortunately, the internet is an imperfect medium, so I can't properly diagnose you. However, when you figure it out, please let the rest of us know, 'k?
<strong>I'd be very surprised if the Apollo uses DDR. The current 7451 is at 133, and the Apollo is supposedly just the same chip with SOI. I doubt they'll change the bus speed. It will wait until the G5 comes out in MWSF 2003.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Every G5 nae sayer is saying G4's with DDR and faster bus.
<strong>Everyone clearly remembers the last keynote, and how disappointed everyone in the crowd was. I am equally sure that people remember Steve's supposed comments such as: We really stunk that one up, etc.
What were the speed increases from that? from 733 top to a dual 800 top? (867 if we use MHz only).
Does anyone even remotely think, given those two points above, that Apple would come out with anything resembling the same speed increases and make the type of fuss that they are with their daily hype? Does anyone think that Steve really wants to whip out his weewee and stomp on it even worse than the last keynote?
Cmon... Steve may be an egomaniac, but is he dumb enough to hype up something that flopped once before?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good points, needed to be made.
No, Jobs is not stupid - quite the contrary. I daresay he's got a very clear idea of what he & Apple need to do.
Yes, 1gHz is a psychological milestone, and an important one. Didn't Steve say flatly that the 'megahertz gap' would be closed by the end of '01? I'm certain he meant it, just as I'm certain he means to put 1gHz or better into the entire line.
If he still could not find a way to close the gap after all this, it would be a bitter defeat, and he would NOT crow about it in public!
I wouldn't put it past him to just put 1gHz G4s into everything if that's what it took to cross the line. I know, a lotta people say that would never happen, but I don't think Steve thinks consumer machines need to be slow. Given that OS X is optimised for AvltiVec, I'd say that the plan has been to put G4s or better in everything right from the start.
If the current iMacs suddenly had 1gHz G4s at the same prices - no hype, just boom! - that would have made a lot of people happy right there. If you couldn't buy a Macintosh that didn't have at least 1 1gHz G4, all at current prices, would that really piss you off, or would you be saying 'way to go, Apple'?
Even then, I don't think Apple would pump up their teaser campaign the way they have just for that, or for that and any particular hub device. I'm thinking of when my daughter was trying to tease hints out of me about what she was getting for her birthday, and I really did have some kickin' stuff for her & she had no clue. I'd give her hints, and good ones, too - but hints that wouldn't help her figure it out. Would've been mean of me if I hadn't had the follow-thru, but it ended up being fun for both of us, and she gave me a hard time about it later (my hints often involve puns).
I have the feeling that's what's going on w/ the build-up toward MWSF; the way it's being handled tells me that Steve has the goods and is genuinely convinced that we won't be disappointed.
I don't see what's so unbelieveable about the idea that Steve can figure this stuff out for himself.
That said, there are those who will head straight to Pluto w/ this stuff, and then wail cause they hyperventilated. "CURSSE JOBSSS! WE HATESSS IT FOREVER!!!"
<strong>Didn't Steve say flatly that the 'megahertz gap' would be closed by the end of '01? I'm certain he meant it, just as I'm certain he means to put 1gHz or better into the entire line.</strong><hr></blockquote>Yes, but Apple would still be a whole GHz behind.
[quote]<strong>I have the feeling that's what's going on w/ the build-up toward MWSF; the way it's being handled tells me that Steve has the goods and is genuinely convinced that we won't be disappointed.</strong><hr></blockquote>Agreed, but this is the same man that went on record saying that the Segway HT would change the way we build cities...
Of course, I'm not bashing anyone here, just getting a few point made. I've got hopes for MWSF, but at least I understand the world isn't going to end if Apple doesn't release an array of amazing, chic new products.
How about a Quad 1 GHz G4 with DDR RAM, Firewire2 (800 Mbps), more RAM slots and improved graphics and maybe something else. ??</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now comes to another big problem ---- The yield of G4 always sucks f*cking big time
Anyway, if you are so convinced that PCs are beter, than buy one. Failure to act on what you know to be factual is either a sign of:
a) neurosis
b) psychosis
c) general idiocy
d) child-like immaturity
Unfortunately, the internet is an imperfect medium, so I can't properly diagnose you. However, when you figure it out, please let the rest of us know, 'k?
Pieces,
SdC</strong><hr></blockquote>
I use to know applenut on the ancient AI board : he is not a PC troller. However there is an evidence: Apple as to do something in order to stay competitive, or they will going to loose customers, me included.
OS X is a good OS , but there is not many soft working fine with it (later may be, but people buy a computer for an immediate use, not for a future use), Macs are more expansive and less performant.
I will still be an apple's consumers if mac are still more expansive (they cannot be less expansive) but equally performant.
<strong>Now comes to another big problem ---- The yield of G4 always sucks f*cking big time</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, people seem to easily forget that SOI and .13 µ are supposed to vastly increase viable yields. (edit: assuming they'll be Apollo chips)
I too would personally be satisfied with a quad 1 GHz with the increase of better multithreaded apps for OSX. Yet, single-threaded scientific and other apps would still suffer greatly.
I think all the hype is over some digital device, a handheld product of some sort. It has nothing to do with the speed of new Powermacs.
I'm thinking the new Powermacs will have the current bus, current RAM, current mobo, just incrementally higher G4s. 7450 G4s. If we are VERY lucky, then Apollo G4s.
The 7450 Can only scale to about 1 GHz on a good day with the proper moon phase, so Powermacs will top out at 1 GHz. If the Apollo makes it, then MAYBE we will see 1.1 GHz, but I doubt it.
The key here is that Apple always does incremental upgrades. When has Apple EVER increased CPU MHz by more than 233 MHz? And that was after 18 months of stagnation...we just had a speedbump at MWNY.
I was wrong to predict so much earlier. The RDF is wearing off and I'm seeing more clearly.
And another thing. We get 1, maybe 1.1 GHz, Wintel is at 2 GHz. As always, we are running at half the MHz of the competition. This cannot go on forever..eventually it will be the downfall of Apple.
<strong>I think all the hype is over some digital device, a handheld product of some sort. It has nothing to do with the speed of new Powermacs.
I'm thinking the new Powermacs will have the current bus, current RAM, current mobo, just incrementally higher G4s. 7450 G4s. If we are VERY lucky, then Apollo G4s.
The 7450 Can only scale to about 1 GHz on a good day with the proper moon phase, so Powermacs will top out at 1 GHz. If the Apollo makes it, then MAYBE we will see 1.1 GHz, but I doubt it.
The key here is that Apple always does incremental upgrades. When has Apple EVER increased CPU MHz by more than 233 MHz? And that was after 18 months of stagnation...we just had a speedbump at MWNY.
I was wrong to predict so much earlier. The RDF is wearing off and I'm seeing more clearly.
And another thing. We get 1, maybe 1.1 GHz, Wintel is at 2 GHz. As always, we are running at half the MHz of the competition. This cannot go on forever..eventually it will be the downfall of Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, whatever.
Anyway, that's all motorola trouble. The only real question is whether or not Apple will pull it's head out of it's ass, and get us a new motherboard, with DDR and HyperTransport and Gigawire or whatever. (I think they will, but I'd be happier if I KNEW they will) And some front mounted USB and FW wouldn't kill them, would it? While your at it, move the godammed heatsink out of the way, so we can use both bays for 5.25" drives, huh?
Comments
What were the speed increases from that? from 733 top to a dual 800 top? (867 if we use MHz only).
Does anyone even remotely think, given those two points above, that Apple would come out with anything resembling the same speed increases and make the type of fuss that they are with their daily hype? Does anyone think that Steve really wants to whip out his weewee and stomp on it even worse than the last keynote?
Cmon... Steve may be an egomaniac, but is he dumb enough to hype up something that flopped once before?
<strong>Keep in mind that DDR is likely to show up, and when it does it will have a very significant effect on performance -- it will be worth a "couple hundred MHz" all by itself.</strong><hr></blockquote>
who cares. PCs have had DDR for 2 years now.
people saying oh well we get DDR RAM at least, shut up. DDR RAM is nothing. it means nothing. Apple should have had DDR RAM back in January.
this is getting to be a joke. the PowerMacs are not professional level machines yet they are priced like workstations. it's not amusing anymore and if Apple doesn't pull out something amazing in terms of performance you can count on dismal PowerMac sales once again.
There is nothing exciting about them anymore. nothing cutting edge. we are constantly catching up. TAKE THE DAMN LEAD FOR ONCE!
<strong>
who cares. PCs have had DDR for 2 years now.
people saying oh well we get DDR RAM at least, shut up. DDR RAM is nothing. it means nothing. Apple should have had DDR RAM back in January.
this is getting to be a joke. the PowerMacs are not professional level machines yet they are priced like workstations. it's not amusing anymore and if Apple doesn't pull out something amazing in terms of performance you can count on dismal PowerMac sales once again.
There is nothing exciting about them anymore. nothing cutting edge. we are constantly catching up. TAKE THE DAMN LEAD FOR ONCE!</strong><hr></blockquote>
Dude, either buy a pc and go away or get some therapy.
Do you even realize how silly you sound?
SdC
<strong>
Dude, either buy a pc and go away or get some therapy.
Do you even realize how silly you sound?
SdC</strong><hr></blockquote>
explain to what's silly besides your nickname?
<strong>Apple should just skip DDR266 and go right to DDR333.</strong><hr></blockquote>I'd be very surprised if the Apollo uses DDR. The current 7451 is at 133, and the Apollo is supposedly just the same chip with SOI. I doubt they'll change the bus speed. It will wait until the G5 comes out in MWSF 2003.
<strong>
Rumor has it that Apple is doing their own chip design in house. Thus the lack of leaks.</strong><hr></blockquote>
That would be nice. A 3GHZ system would be something people might drop jaws about. Imagine a Photoshop demo where the Mac opened the 500MB file, cropped it, un-sharp mask'd it, changed to LAB color all before the Pentium 4 1.8GHZ even opened the file? That would be sweet!
Do you guys remember these boards in November? Everyone was expecting 1.6 GHz G5s! Now the prevailing expectation is for a top end of 1 (1.33 at the most) GHz G4.
None of us has any idea what Apple is going to introduce specs-wise. We shouldn't pretend that we do. Instead, lets have active, intelligent, coherent discussion on what Apple might produce? We are letting our passion for Apple cloud our judgement.
<strong>
explain to what's silly besides your nickname?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Clever. What are you, like 12?
Anyway, if you are so convinced that PCs are beter, than buy one. Failure to act on what you know to be factual is either a sign of:
a) neurosis
b) psychosis
c) general idiocy
d) child-like immaturity
Unfortunately, the internet is an imperfect medium, so I can't properly diagnose you. However, when you figure it out, please let the rest of us know, 'k?
Pieces,
SdC
<strong>I'd be very surprised if the Apollo uses DDR. The current 7451 is at 133, and the Apollo is supposedly just the same chip with SOI. I doubt they'll change the bus speed. It will wait until the G5 comes out in MWSF 2003.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Every G5 nae sayer is saying G4's with DDR and faster bus.
<strong>Everyone clearly remembers the last keynote, and how disappointed everyone in the crowd was. I am equally sure that people remember Steve's supposed comments such as: We really stunk that one up, etc.
What were the speed increases from that? from 733 top to a dual 800 top? (867 if we use MHz only).
Does anyone even remotely think, given those two points above, that Apple would come out with anything resembling the same speed increases and make the type of fuss that they are with their daily hype? Does anyone think that Steve really wants to whip out his weewee and stomp on it even worse than the last keynote?
Cmon... Steve may be an egomaniac, but is he dumb enough to hype up something that flopped once before?</strong><hr></blockquote>
Good points, needed to be made.
No, Jobs is not stupid - quite the contrary. I daresay he's got a very clear idea of what he & Apple need to do.
Yes, 1gHz is a psychological milestone, and an important one. Didn't Steve say flatly that the 'megahertz gap' would be closed by the end of '01? I'm certain he meant it, just as I'm certain he means to put 1gHz or better into the entire line.
If he still could not find a way to close the gap after all this, it would be a bitter defeat, and he would NOT crow about it in public!
I wouldn't put it past him to just put 1gHz G4s into everything if that's what it took to cross the line. I know, a lotta people say that would never happen, but I don't think Steve thinks consumer machines need to be slow. Given that OS X is optimised for AvltiVec, I'd say that the plan has been to put G4s or better in everything right from the start.
If the current iMacs suddenly had 1gHz G4s at the same prices - no hype, just boom! - that would have made a lot of people happy right there. If you couldn't buy a Macintosh that didn't have at least 1 1gHz G4, all at current prices, would that really piss you off, or would you be saying 'way to go, Apple'?
Even then, I don't think Apple would pump up their teaser campaign the way they have just for that, or for that and any particular hub device. I'm thinking of when my daughter was trying to tease hints out of me about what she was getting for her birthday, and I really did have some kickin' stuff for her & she had no clue. I'd give her hints, and good ones, too - but hints that wouldn't help her figure it out. Would've been mean of me if I hadn't had the follow-thru, but it ended up being fun for both of us, and she gave me a hard time about it later (my hints often involve puns).
I have the feeling that's what's going on w/ the build-up toward MWSF; the way it's being handled tells me that Steve has the goods and is genuinely convinced that we won't be disappointed.
I don't see what's so unbelieveable about the idea that Steve can figure this stuff out for himself.
That said, there are those who will head straight to Pluto w/ this stuff, and then wail cause they hyperventilated. "CURSSE JOBSSS! WE HATESSS IT FOREVER!!!"
Too bad....
[quote]Originally posted by shaman:
<strong>Didn't Steve say flatly that the 'megahertz gap' would be closed by the end of '01? I'm certain he meant it, just as I'm certain he means to put 1gHz or better into the entire line.</strong><hr></blockquote>Yes, but Apple would still be a whole GHz behind.
[quote]<strong>I have the feeling that's what's going on w/ the build-up toward MWSF; the way it's being handled tells me that Steve has the goods and is genuinely convinced that we won't be disappointed.</strong><hr></blockquote>Agreed, but this is the same man that went on record saying that the Segway HT would change the way we build cities...
Of course, I'm not bashing anyone here, just getting a few point made. I've got hopes for MWSF, but at least I understand the world isn't going to end if Apple doesn't release an array of amazing, chic new products.
[ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
I don't think we will see anything much higher than 1 GHz (maybe 1,2) and that's not Apple's fault! Repeat: it is not the fault of Apple!!!
However, they can (need to) do many cool things with even a "lowly" 1 GHz G4 and a new motherboard.
How about a Quad 1 GHz G4 with DDR RAM, Firewire2 (800 Mbps), more RAM slots and improved graphics and maybe something else. ??
If they can price it the same as the dual 800, theyu would have a killer machine!!
<strong>
How about a Quad 1 GHz G4 with DDR RAM, Firewire2 (800 Mbps), more RAM slots and improved graphics and maybe something else. ??</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now comes to another big problem ---- The yield of G4 always sucks f*cking big time
<strong>
Clever. What are you, like 12?
Anyway, if you are so convinced that PCs are beter, than buy one. Failure to act on what you know to be factual is either a sign of:
a) neurosis
b) psychosis
c) general idiocy
d) child-like immaturity
Unfortunately, the internet is an imperfect medium, so I can't properly diagnose you. However, when you figure it out, please let the rest of us know, 'k?
Pieces,
SdC</strong><hr></blockquote>
I use to know applenut on the ancient AI board : he is not a PC troller. However there is an evidence: Apple as to do something in order to stay competitive, or they will going to loose customers, me included.
OS X is a good OS , but there is not many soft working fine with it (later may be, but people buy a computer for an immediate use, not for a future use), Macs are more expansive and less performant.
I will still be an apple's consumers if mac are still more expansive (they cannot be less expansive) but equally performant.
<strong>Now comes to another big problem ---- The yield of G4 always sucks f*cking big time</strong><hr></blockquote>
Actually, people seem to easily forget that SOI and .13 µ are supposed to vastly increase viable yields. (edit: assuming they'll be Apollo chips)
I too would personally be satisfied with a quad 1 GHz with the increase of better multithreaded apps for OSX. Yet, single-threaded scientific and other apps would still suffer greatly.
[ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: starfleetX ]</p>
I'm thinking the new Powermacs will have the current bus, current RAM, current mobo, just incrementally higher G4s. 7450 G4s. If we are VERY lucky, then Apollo G4s.
The 7450 Can only scale to about 1 GHz on a good day with the proper moon phase, so Powermacs will top out at 1 GHz. If the Apollo makes it, then MAYBE we will see 1.1 GHz, but I doubt it.
The key here is that Apple always does incremental upgrades. When has Apple EVER increased CPU MHz by more than 233 MHz? And that was after 18 months of stagnation...we just had a speedbump at MWNY.
I was wrong to predict so much earlier. The RDF is wearing off and I'm seeing more clearly.
And another thing. We get 1, maybe 1.1 GHz, Wintel is at 2 GHz. As always, we are running at half the MHz of the competition. This cannot go on forever..eventually it will be the downfall of Apple.
<strong>I think all the hype is over some digital device, a handheld product of some sort. It has nothing to do with the speed of new Powermacs.
I'm thinking the new Powermacs will have the current bus, current RAM, current mobo, just incrementally higher G4s. 7450 G4s. If we are VERY lucky, then Apollo G4s.
The 7450 Can only scale to about 1 GHz on a good day with the proper moon phase, so Powermacs will top out at 1 GHz. If the Apollo makes it, then MAYBE we will see 1.1 GHz, but I doubt it.
The key here is that Apple always does incremental upgrades. When has Apple EVER increased CPU MHz by more than 233 MHz? And that was after 18 months of stagnation...we just had a speedbump at MWNY.
I was wrong to predict so much earlier. The RDF is wearing off and I'm seeing more clearly.
And another thing. We get 1, maybe 1.1 GHz, Wintel is at 2 GHz. As always, we are running at half the MHz of the competition. This cannot go on forever..eventually it will be the downfall of Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, whatever.
Anyway, that's all motorola trouble. The only real question is whether or not Apple will pull it's head out of it's ass, and get us a new motherboard, with DDR and HyperTransport and Gigawire or whatever. (I think they will, but I'd be happier if I KNEW they will) And some front mounted USB and FW wouldn't kill them, would it? While your at it, move the godammed heatsink out of the way, so we can use both bays for 5.25" drives, huh?
SdC
[ 01-04-2002: Message edited by: suckfuldotcom ]</p>