Microsoft's future PDF Killer
Microsoft's "Metro" aims its barrels at Adobe's PDF.
I think what's happening here is a gross oversimplification about just what PDF is. Methinks the writers have never seen the documentation for the PDF 1.5 spec. It's absolutely HUGE. PDF is far more than just printing and Microsoft is crazy to attempt a PDF like app. PDF's claim is its interoperability and royalty free licensing. Microsoft's claim to fame is its ability to get people standardized on closed document formats. PDF is an anathema to what the very foundation of MS is built upon.
Thus I would have to see more of this "Metro" to ascertain what limitations it could possibly have.
Quote:
The format, based on XML, will be licensed royalty free and users will be able to open Metro files without a special client. In the demonstration, a Metro file was opened and printed from Internet Explorer, Microsoft's Web browser.
Printers and printer drivers can include support for Metro and deliver better and faster printing results than with today's printing technology, Microsoft said. On stage, a Xerox printer with Metro built in was used to print a sample slide.
The format, based on XML, will be licensed royalty free and users will be able to open Metro files without a special client. In the demonstration, a Metro file was opened and printed from Internet Explorer, Microsoft's Web browser.
Printers and printer drivers can include support for Metro and deliver better and faster printing results than with today's printing technology, Microsoft said. On stage, a Xerox printer with Metro built in was used to print a sample slide.
I think what's happening here is a gross oversimplification about just what PDF is. Methinks the writers have never seen the documentation for the PDF 1.5 spec. It's absolutely HUGE. PDF is far more than just printing and Microsoft is crazy to attempt a PDF like app. PDF's claim is its interoperability and royalty free licensing. Microsoft's claim to fame is its ability to get people standardized on closed document formats. PDF is an anathema to what the very foundation of MS is built upon.
Thus I would have to see more of this "Metro" to ascertain what limitations it could possibly have.
Comments
Of course they want it to be their format; where they can do whatever the hell they want with it.
Of course they want it to be their format; where they can do whatever the hell they want with it. [/B]
I simply cant wait until someone gives me a "Metro" file and my life becomes a living hell because I cant open it on my Mac, my PC cant export the file, and the person that created it knows nothing other than "a Wizard told me to save the file like this so that it would be more compatible with other computers".
Hurray...
this is not a rhetorical question like why is saddam evil?
but really, i am curious as to the business objective of this... because that is several hundred thousand dollars of R&D to let's see:
1. spec the format
2. build in-house developer tools to design and refine format
3. seed developer and client Metro tools
4. PR
5. marketing
6. more PR
7. more marketing
8. distributing with next windows update
9. even more PR
10. even more marketing
11. prepping for legal hurdles ala antitrust type stuff
12. "incentives" for like getting Xerox on board and to do demos and stuff
13. demos
14. more demos
15. even more PR, marketing, and demos
16. loop back to number 1 or 2, but proceed to number 4 really really fast
oh mi god i just cracked microsoft's software development lifecycle template !!!!!
Originally posted by 4fx
I simply cant wait until someone gives me a "Metro" file and my life becomes a living hell because I cant open it on my Mac, my PC cant export the file, and the person that created it knows nothing other than "a Wizard told me to save the file like this so that it would be more compatible with other computers".
Hurray...
gawd... all the microsucks Wizards are really Dunces.
The sad thing is that it's not quite as simple as "MS bad, Adobe good." PDF has gone from a relatively straightforward subset of PostScript with a relatively lean reader app to a bloated do-everything format with a sluggish, bloated reader app. It's becoming like Word, not coincidentally. Bruce Chizen is realigning Adobe around PDF and moving into the corporate-workflow space, turning Acrobat and PDF into direct competitors for Office and DOC. (Ironically, as Daring Fireball pointed out, Adobe's press releases are done in Word for Windows and converted—crudely—to PDF.) Given this, I find less and less comfort in the fact that the PDF spec is published. Its sheer size is a barrier for third parties, and since Adobe controls the spec they can mess with it or take it private or "break" it at any time.
This reminds me of the whole dustup over MS' breaking of Java: MS used bare-knuckle tactics, yes, but Sun is a would-be monopolist which had done some pretty sleazy things with Java as well (such as making it an ANSI standard—with strings attached).
As with most of these clashes of the titans, I expect the real losers to be people who just wanted a broadly supported portable document format.
Amorph I was about a week from point out a nationwide APB on you! Welcome back!
Hmm I wonder if Apple's acquisition of schemasoft is a strategic move to get infront of PDF/XML tech. Apple's done well with the new Tiger Preview and schemasoft tech should help them translate a bit more formats accurately.
I wonder how Microsoft is going to promote this "metro" technology as a viable competitor to PDF. Microsoft is fighting on a lot of battlefronts. There's going to be a time where they simply just break down.
May you live in interesting times. Watching Adobe/Apple/Microsoft go on their respective paths is going to be interesting.
Originally posted by Relic
What if this new PDF rip-off turns out to be better, faster, scalablerer and more robust then anything Adobe can dream of? Huh, ever think about that you naysayer?s. Microsoft is spending hundreds of dollars in programming to make sure your computing experience gets better and all you have to say is fooy. Well I?m not going to take it, when this new ?Metro? comes out I?m going to be strong supporter, all hail Metro. Now if you excuse me I?m going to grab my staff and head to the nearest grocery store to proclaim the second coming of the universal document format.
Give it 5 minutes, it will be plaqued with macro script viruses.
Originally posted by a_greer
Give it 5 minutes, it will be plaqued with macro script viruses.
oooohhh..... touchdown!! yeah...!
--OR--
spot on mate, bloody spot on.
edit(1): this is not just another blatant microsoft-bashing post from meself, it relates also to the fact that Metro will yet be another underground (crappy pun intended) avenue for crackers and script kiddies to feel good about themselves causing pain to poor saps who just don't know better and were forced to use M$ and/or Metro at work, for example...
Originally posted by rok
amorph, you beat me to the punch about what daringfireball said (why apple doesn't just hire gruber as just, well, someone who UNDERSTANDS... anyway), and pdf, at least as adobe has made it, has become more clunky, with a reader that becomes larger and more ostentatious with every update. i mean, i can't tell you how nice it is to just have preview OPEN a pdf and then just GET OUT OF MY WAY.
amen, brother.
on my parents circa-1998 PC i put windows2000 on for them and i was able to locate adobe Acrobat 5 full version from years ago... sweet
at least they can still view most PDFs if need be and it loads alright, and they can create PDFs in their windows2000 PC (important for a very very LEGACY microsoft access 97 database i made for them almost 10 years ago...
Originally posted by Relic
What if this new PDF rip-off turns out to be better, faster, scalablerer and more robust then anything Adobe can dream of? Huh, ever think about that you naysayer?s. Microsoft is spending hundreds of dollars in programming to make sure your computing experience gets better and all you have to say is fooy. Well I?m not going to take it, when this new ?Metro? comes out I?m going to be strong supporter, all hail Metro. Now if you excuse me I?m going to grab my staff and head to the nearest grocery store to proclaim the second coming of the universal document format.
Since when do those words and MicroSoft exist in the same reality? Even if it was sarcasm???
Originally posted by Hiro
Since when do those words and MicroSoft exist in the same reality? Even if it was sarcasm???
i like the word "scalablerer" ... that has just popped into this reality now
Yep, I see where this is going. And it will probably work. Most people just use whatever is on their computer when they buy it, so if Microsoft removes all traces of PDF viewers, then the format will cease to exist for most of the population.
Why are they doing this? Because they can, and because OS X is intertwined with the PDF format, and because Microsoft wants to school Adobe's uppity ass. Yep, it's coming' at us like a freight train - let's hope Apple's got a plan or else we'll all be up to our anuses in Metro files we can't properly read.
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
...Microsoft cripples PDF readers on Windows and sells Windows with no PDF readers installed.
Actually, Windows doesnt ship with Acrobat Reader installed. If it is preinstalled, the PC maker installed it.
My biggest concern is compatability. The article made it sound like Metro was not only competition for the PDF format, but also for Postscript. If Metro is somehow incompatible (or even not fully compatible) with postscript printers there will be major problems when users go to get their documents printed.
Still, I would agree that Acrobat has become bloated, though it is an irreplaceable tool in many circumstances at this point in time.
Originally posted by Hiro
Since when do those words and MicroSoft exist in the same reality? Even if it was sarcasm???
Maybe I should put some these "<sarcasm></sarcasm>" tags around my next post, I hate causing confusion. I thought the grabbing of my staff and going Microsoft preachin was the deal closer for the sarcasm argument. I forget sometimes that Apple users are a serious bunch. I'll be clearerer next time.
Originally posted by 4fx
Still, I would agree that Acrobat has become bloated, though it is an irreplaceable tool in many circumstances at this point in time.
Windows users are used to bloat, they would probably freak if it was taken away.
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
Windows users are used to bloat, they would probably freak if it was taken away.
Snark aside, there's a growing revolt against Acrobat Reader among Windows users. That's why MS is moving now. It takes significantly longer to launch Reader than it does to launch Word or any other Office app, all so that you can look at a read-only document in a cluttered interface with fidgety controls. The result is that Windows people would much rather exchange Office files.
Apple responded with Preview, which is reasonably clean and fast. MS is, of course, responding with an attempt to drive PDF off the market. Neither company would have had to respond if Adobe had kept Acrobat Reader (and PDF) lean. As it is, this might be their Navigator 4. Pity, really. Because MS has been wanting into desktop publishing for a long time, and if they weaken Adobe enough in this battle they might be able to pull the Creative Suite out of the wreckage, and hold it over Steve's head...
Originally posted by Amorph
..... Pity, really. Because MS has been wanting into desktop publishing for a long time, and if they weaken Adobe enough in this battle they might be able to pull the Creative Suite out of the wreckage.....
bloody hell don't say that
Acrobat Reader is atrocious. Even version 7, which brings much needed speed improvements, is very very slow. And all for a damned read-only document.
As was said above, if they had kept their format open, lean and fast we wouldn't be here. Thank God SOMEONE is trying to create a little competition.