Why such weak video cards in the new macs?



  • Reply 21 of 37
    pyrixpyrix Posts: 264member
    The REAL reason there are week video cards:

    1) Apple DOES NOT have a PCI-E chipset available. The newer IGP cards (those that can be full intergrated without an AGP or PCI-E (such as those used in laptops), hence it cant upgrade these cards too far.

    2) The best selling console on the market i.e Microsofts Xbox has a PIII and the rough equivelent of geforce4 MX 64mb, no matter what specialised crud they call it. My desktop has roughly the same. (yes I have a windows desktop: no crime). There is no need for apple to go to a better video card on a machine: I know people who are great gamers playing on an MX4, and that wasn't an Xbox ewither.

    3) Proffessional video/graphics editors can probly afford a Powermac, or if not, get away with an iMac. So it takes another 30 seconds to render, or poor diddums, you have to play games so you cant see the nose hairs up some poor aliens nose (do aliens have nose hairs?)

    4) Before anyone asks why apple doesn't have a PCI-e chipset, its for the same reason AMD doesn't use DDR-2 ram. There is no real speed gain, as any speed gain you get is either negligible or gets slowed right back down again as it hits the rest of the system.

    5) been said before, I'll say again. The iMac doesn't have to room for a dedicated cooling system for the horribly hot 9800 or 9600XT's. Sure, a dell laptop has this and that bladdy blah. A dell laptops components also get fused together after a while, and than dell laptop dont do much of anything no more.

    My personal opinion. I would much prefer that apple saved itself $35 (times that by HOW many iMac's they sell?), and sold more POWERMACS (which they make more money from) to the people that actually needed the graphics power and werent just impressed by a spec sheet.

    Real world performance is everything.

  • Reply 22 of 37
    talksense101talksense101 Posts: 1,738member
    As long as Apple doesn't stick to the 9600 for the next three revisions (like it did with the 5200Ultra), we are in good shape.
  • Reply 23 of 37
    scavangerscavanger Posts: 286member
    Lets remember the fact that the Xbox is specifically designed for it's use, gaming. All the code is optimized for one hardware set, and thats it. So don't go on about how it's only a Geforce 4.....

    Next, the good majority of cards of this current generation were both made in AGP and PCI-E. Since the majority of systems still have AGP, and the only people really pushing PCI-E right now is Intel... so that is a load of crap.

    Also, if you could perhaps back up your statement about Dell laptops fusing together, since I've yet to see anything like that reported.

    BTW, the 35 dollar extra cost is retail. When you buy millions of chips, prices come down pretty fast...
  • Reply 24 of 37
    thereubsterthereubster Posts: 402member
    For those still not convinced, head over to Macintouch and look at all the people complaining about the noise the iMac makes (and how many have blown up). When you design a computer to look like the iMac you must make certain sacrifices.

    And lets face it, when it comes to gaming, Macs can't touch PC's, because the software (game) is not optimised for it and neither is OSX, as Apple have admitted themselves by looking to hire more OpenGl developers.

    I see the continued use of lower spec GPU's as an admittion of this, and also not everyone who uses a computer plays games, no matter HOW MANY people you know who do, that does not equal everyone....
  • Reply 25 of 37
    hardheadhardhead Posts: 644member
    My Overam Mirage 8700 has an ATI Radeon 9700Pro Mobility 256MB 8x AGP. This is a BIG laptop. The sound of the fans can get a little loud at times when I'm engaged in a pitched battle on Farcry or Half Life 2. However, unless I'm listening for them at such times, you won't notice them. Also, it will get VERY warm at these same times. I don't use this big boy on my lap. That WOULD be uncomfortable.

    My point being, I get to enjoy the pleasures of a kick-ass graphics card in a machine that has less internal space than the iMac. The space/heat should be a non-issue for the iMac. I think. I know that I may be wrong about this. Especially in light of the Macintouch reports.

    I do like the new iMacs very much. Just wish they would offer a high-grade graphics card BTO, that's all. For those of us whom do like to game at high resolutions and framerates.

    While I'm at it, maybe a darker colored option from that wussie white also...

    A little side note. The point about the shrinking PC game market to console growth is accurate. 'tis a shame too. As games like Farcry and Half Life 2 are IMHO so far superior in precision of control (keyboard+mouse for FPS's...), as well as graphics... to anything offered on console. ANY console.
  • Reply 26 of 37
    pyrixpyrix Posts: 264member
    I am well aware of the fact that an Xbox is optimized for gaming, and almost (need I even put in that disclaimer) is not. I was simply making the point how it was a geforece4 and got by, so the iMac with a Radeon 9600 ( a ssuperior graphics chip, which may/may not make up for any discrepencies with code.)

    As well as this, no, i have no cases of dell laptops fusing components together, again I as simply making a point that you dont NEED that graphics card - careful marketing and spec sheets merely make you think so.

    That said, Id love to see a 9800 in an iMac, but the day that happens will be the day that those are the worst around. Probably.
  • Reply 27 of 37
    smalmsmalm Posts: 677member

    Originally posted by hardhead

    My point being, I get to enjoy the pleasures of a kick-ass graphics card in a machine that has less internal space than the iMac. The space/heat should be a non-issue for the iMac. I think. I know that I may be wrong about this.

    You are wrong.

    The problem is the LCD display which is operating at it's maximum heat level right now.
  • Reply 28 of 37
    relicrelic Posts: 4,735member

    Originally posted by smalM

    You are wrong.

    The problem is the LCD display which is operating at it's maximum heat level right now.

    I wouldn't have a problem with Apple putting a mobile chip in the iMac. The new MOBILITY RADEON 9800 is basically a scaled down X800, shitt that works for me.
  • Reply 29 of 37
    dfilerdfiler Posts: 3,420member
    My father owns an iMac to prepare class materials for his students, browse the web, email, and do his taxes. I feel this is fairly typical of iMac users.

    When I vid chat with him, the drone of the iMac's fan is quite distracting. For him and many other users, a faster video card would make the machine worse. Not that speed is bad, but rather trading everything else for speed is not neccessarily good.

    Speed is not the only criteria when buying a computer.
  • Reply 30 of 37
    hardheadhardhead Posts: 644member

    Speed is not the only criteria when buying a computer.

    I agree. Especially in the case of Apple. You get arguably, the most "harmonious" packaging of software and hardware of any consumer computer manufacturer. Heh, that sounds pretty Mac-fan-boish... I'm not.

    smalM, are you saying that the iMac's LCD has already reached it's environmental heat limit?
  • Reply 31 of 37
    skatmanskatman Posts: 609member

    The 9800XT is 256MB, the 9600 is 128MB. That makes a huge difference for me in Motion, After Effects, Final Cut, and Photoshop. You don't have to believe me though.

    Unless your computer works very differently than mine, I don't believe you.
  • Reply 32 of 37
    exhibit_13exhibit_13 Posts: 110member
    the issue here once again is heat. the XT has more power, which means in turn, it creates more heat. in a system like the iMac, heat is a crucial factor in design. i'd rather have a slightly slower GPU than have my computer start to melt on my desk. i dunno, thats just me. the omission of the XT version of the 9600 and complete extinction of the 9800XT from the powermac lines, though, is curious. i think it would be more logical to use these GPU's in the pro line, but this could be due to the fact that they want to not have a mass amount of different GPU's in the line; they may be trying to consolidate parts. and also, people were complaining not a week ago about how TERRIBLE the 5200 was. granted, it was a VERY outdated chip, but people were begging for anything better, and now that you have it, and everyone's b**ching again. like people have said before me, be happy with what you've got. this is impressive what we've got, if you're SO unhappy, buy a freaking apple certified PM with a 9600XT in it and get over yourselves
  • Reply 33 of 37
    hardheadhardhead Posts: 644member

    be happy with what you've got.

    The ideal Apple customer...
  • Reply 34 of 37
    jimbo123jimbo123 Posts: 153member
    Us Apple owners are never content always striving for perfection!
  • Reply 35 of 37
    resres Posts: 711member

    Originally posted by smalM

    You are wrong.

    The problem is the LCD display which is operating at it's maximum heat level right now.

    The real heating problem with current iMac design is the power supply; cramming it into the case was just a terrible idea. Using a separate power supply would have kept things much cooler and quieter.
  • Reply 36 of 37
    algolalgol Posts: 833member
    well the 9600 is a ton better than the 5200ultra. At least we have gone from suck to blow.
  • Reply 37 of 37
    placeboplacebo Posts: 5,767member

    Originally posted by skatman

    What kind of "professional" video work can be done with 9800 series that can't be done with 9600 series?

    Go kid around somebody else.

    And you know this how?

    Extremely heavy and messy Motion work could get frustrating pretty fast even with a 9800 Pro. Many Motion pros use 6800s for the real-time performance they can offer.

    How do we know this? Because the 5200 is a joke, and the 9600 is the second-slowest on this list.

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