Fair enough. There's no disputing your point, it's just from my experience (I live in a reasonably affluent area) most people I know have a DVD player. In fact, DVD players are seen as a more essential purchase for home entertainment than a games console - despite consoles having DVD players.
As you mention, the feature was great when it came out. Now however, with the wide acceptance of the DVD standard this feature has become far less significant.
I can tell you a good reason why projection home theaters will use the DVD players in their game consoles - lack of DVI inputs on their line quadruplers.
If you have a sattelite receiver and all three game consoles, then you will have maxed out all 4 DVI inputs on even the most generous line quadrupler. A DVI switchbox makes things harder for the wife to use.
I said "Only fanbois want one over the other." Most people will want them all (or at least key titles or features the others might have) but reality means they get to buy only one.
Fanbois on the otherhand will not listen to arguments in favor of the other systems and would never contemplate having the other systems. They actively don't want them.
The assumption at the bottom of that is that every system was interesting to every person.
I know full well what a XBox can do, but I have so little interest in it you might as well say I don't want it. It's a question of game titles. The games (arcade, fighting, adventure, etc) I want to play are on PS2 and GCube (which I don't have). For FPS, simulation, strategy I think the PC is the only choice that makes sense.
Similarly, I can see how a person who is interested in sports games and FPS, especially one who does not want a PC, could go with XBox and have very little interest in other consoles.
It's a work of genius. Connected to you PC or Mac you can stream movies, MP3s etc. And it supports all of those nice internet codecs like xVID and DIVX. I use it to watch fansubbed anime on my TV. Couldn't do without it, it's invaluable.
Xbox 360 will have Microsoft's own media centre, which will also connect to a PC but I very much doubt will support xVID and DIVX. Meaning I'll just have to wait for another no doubt superior homebrew solution.
While the GameCube was fun for a few select titles (Mario Kart and a few Star Wars), I definitely won't be jumping into another Nintendo thingy unless it at least plays DVDs.
But if it's cheap enough...yeah.
I'm shocked that anyone could say such a thing. Did you not play Zelda Wind Waker? Or the Metroid Prime games? How about Resident Evil 4, Animal Crossing, Piikmin or Viewtiful Joe?
The Cube had a ton of great games. IMO in terms of pure quality it was the best system of this generation.
With Nintendo on fire with innovation on the DS I expect Revolution to be amazing. Where Microsoft and Sony will be happy to just push more polys, I think Nintendo will really bring something new to gaming.
Xbox 360 will have Microsoft's own media centre, which will also connect to a PC but I very much doubt will support xVID and DIVX. Meaning I'll just have to wait for another no doubt superior homebrew solution.
Unless Microsoft does too good of a job protecting its console from crackers. While they are probably fine with Windows being pirated, I don't think they want cracked consoles around since they need total anti-cheat credibility in Live.
I'm shocked that anyone could say such a thing. Did you not play Zelda Wind Waker? Or the Metroid Prime games? How about Resident Evil 4, Animal Crossing, Piikmin or Viewtiful Joe?
The Cube had a ton of great games. IMO in terms of pure quality it was the best system of this generation.
In "average quality" perhaps, but that is counterbalanced by their sky high game prices compared to the others, and not many people pick their games at random anyway. In "top 10 games" GC would have a tough time against PS2, but it's very subjective at that point and again depends on what you want to play. And I think in hardware, the PS2 standard controller absolutely rocks vs the others. Soul Calibur 2 was hell when I tried to play with a GC Wavebird.
In addition to the Zelda and Pikmin you mentioned I am particularly interested in Ikaruga.
Damn that Nintendo for killing the picture out connector though They had a next-gen feature on their console and then they take it away. I know you can still get the good consoles direct from Nintendo, but not in Europe and you'll end up paying through the nose for what should be standard.
It's unfortunate the PS2 does not fare much better, and in current gen only XBox is good about picture mode handling.
Where Microsoft and Sony will be happy to just push more polys, I think Nintendo will really bring something new to gaming.
MS is the only one pushing polys. Technically speaking, the word is that Sony is moving to a NURBS-based 3D paradigm, like the one used on the PSP. Doing so allows a 10-100x reduction of memory, which translates to faster loading, less delay, better frame rates, and much cheaper per-unit-cost. Granted, you need a beast of an FPU to get it done (preferably more than one), but the Cell should be powerful enough to deliver a high-quality NURBS solution to the video game console.
[B]In "average quality" perhaps, but that is counterbalanced by their sky high game prices compared to the others, and not many people pick their games at random anyway. In "top 10 games" GC would have a tough time against PS2, but it's very subjective at that point and again depends on what you want to play. And I think in hardware, the PS2 standard controller absolutely rocks vs the others.
In addition to the Zelda and Pikmin you mentioned I am particularly interested in Ikaruga.
The top tier GC stuff is rated very highly across the board, but ultimately as with any entertainment product it all comes down to personal taste. Although I have a PS2 I haven't touched it since Gradius 5, and before that it was used only for ICO. It now gathers dust in a cupboard.
I could argue that the PS2 has absolutely nothing to touch Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Resident Evil 4 and Animal Crossing, but I think you get my line of thought now.
Which controller pad is best is another golden chestnut of the gaming world. Personally I rate the Cube pad best, although not for any game with digital input. The best all round pad (inc digital) I would have to say is the Xbox Controller S. PS2's Dual Shock has a horrid D-Pad and the left thumbstick is in the wrong place (should be where the D-Pad is), plus the pad has no analogue triggers crippling it for racing games. I'm not a fan...!
Ikaruga is a masterpiece. I bought the original import Dreamcast version and played it to death. It's hard as nails so expect to die a lot though.
MS is the only one pushing polys. Technically speaking, the word is that Sony is moving to a NURBS-based 3D paradigm, like the one used on the PSP. Doing so allows a 10-100x reduction of memory, which translates to faster loading, less delay, better frame rates, and much cheaper per-unit-cost.
If the PS3 also has 256MB, or 512MB like some rumors claim, the 10-100x reduction you speak of could result in an absolutely ridiculous difference in the game worlds each console can push. Even if GPU limit is still there, concentrating attention on visibility algos will go a long way.
Damn I want to hear the facts about PS3. Especially controller, graphics and audio interfaces. It would suck if my new display or the arcade sticks I'm gonna buy for PS2 would not work with the new console.
MS is the only one pushing polys. Technically speaking, the word is that Sony is moving to a NURBS-based 3D paradigm, like the one used on the PSP. Doing so allows a 10-100x reduction of memory, which translates to faster loading, less delay, better frame rates, and much cheaper per-unit-cost. Granted, you need a beast of an FPU to get it done (preferably more than one), but the Cell should be powerful enough to deliver a high-quality NURBS solution to the video game console.
I'd be careful beliving Sony rumours or hype. Remember the claims of PS2 being able to do 'Toy Story in real time'?.
I could argue that the PS2 has absolutely nothing to touch Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Resident Evil 4 and Animal Crossing, but I think you get my line of thought now.
...
Ikaruga is a masterpiece. I bought the original import Dreamcast version and played it to death. It's hard as nails so expect to die a lot though.
I'm now playing Virtua Fighter 4 Evo, Contra:Shattered Soldier, Gradius 3&4, GTA:San Andreas. Soul Calibur 2 is sitting unused. I loved the first one but the second is not as fun. GT4 just came in the mail. I'll probably get Katamari Damacy next. I'm keeping an eye on bargain bins and used game shelves for stuff like Guilty Gear X2#R, Gradius V, R-Type Final, Metal Slug, Metal Gear Solids, Ico.
So that's where I'm coming from.
(goddammit those Gradius games are masochistic! I'm more of an R-Type guy...)
I'd be careful beliving Sony rumours or hype. Remember the claims of PS2 being able to do 'Toy Story in real time'?.
My money is on PS2 being poly based.
I'm sure that it will work with polys, but since Sony is already using NURBS on the PSP, I see no reason for them to stop there. Having a mode for NURBS would give them a hefty leg-up on MS capabilities-wise, but will require game designers to change the way they do almost everything.
Beyond that, I don't see why a PS2 couldn't render Toy Story for S-video. Toy Story is rather unamazing by today's standards.
Comments
Originally posted by mattyj
Fair enough. There's no disputing your point, it's just from my experience (I live in a reasonably affluent area) most people I know have a DVD player. In fact, DVD players are seen as a more essential purchase for home entertainment than a games console - despite consoles having DVD players.
As you mention, the feature was great when it came out. Now however, with the wide acceptance of the DVD standard this feature has become far less significant.
I can tell you a good reason why projection home theaters will use the DVD players in their game consoles - lack of DVI inputs on their line quadruplers.
If you have a sattelite receiver and all three game consoles, then you will have maxed out all 4 DVI inputs on even the most generous line quadrupler. A DVI switchbox makes things harder for the wife to use.
Originally posted by johnq
I said "Only fanbois want one over the other." Most people will want them all (or at least key titles or features the others might have) but reality means they get to buy only one.
Fanbois on the otherhand will not listen to arguments in favor of the other systems and would never contemplate having the other systems. They actively don't want them.
The assumption at the bottom of that is that every system was interesting to every person.
I know full well what a XBox can do, but I have so little interest in it you might as well say I don't want it. It's a question of game titles. The games (arcade, fighting, adventure, etc) I want to play are on PS2 and GCube (which I don't have). For FPS, simulation, strategy I think the PC is the only choice that makes sense.
Similarly, I can see how a person who is interested in sports games and FPS, especially one who does not want a PC, could go with XBox and have very little interest in other consoles.
Originally posted by Ebby
DVI Output would be a great feature as it can handle high resolution video. But unless you are using VGA, you are running something around 640x480.
Every Xbox 360 game will be 16:9 and 720p/1080i. It's not optional, every game must support this.
Originally posted by mattyj
What??? Who uses their console to play DVDs???
I take it you haven't seen the Xbox Media Centre then?
http://www.xboxmediacenter.de/
It's a work of genius. Connected to you PC or Mac you can stream movies, MP3s etc. And it supports all of those nice internet codecs like xVID and DIVX. I use it to watch fansubbed anime on my TV. Couldn't do without it, it's invaluable.
Xbox 360 will have Microsoft's own media centre, which will also connect to a PC but I very much doubt will support xVID and DIVX. Meaning I'll just have to wait for another no doubt superior homebrew solution.
Originally posted by johnq
While the GameCube was fun for a few select titles (Mario Kart and a few Star Wars), I definitely won't be jumping into another Nintendo thingy unless it at least plays DVDs.
But if it's cheap enough...yeah.
I'm shocked that anyone could say such a thing. Did you not play Zelda Wind Waker? Or the Metroid Prime games? How about Resident Evil 4, Animal Crossing, Piikmin or Viewtiful Joe?
The Cube had a ton of great games. IMO in terms of pure quality it was the best system of this generation.
With Nintendo on fire with innovation on the DS I expect Revolution to be amazing. Where Microsoft and Sony will be happy to just push more polys, I think Nintendo will really bring something new to gaming.
Originally posted by kotatsu
Xbox 360 will have Microsoft's own media centre, which will also connect to a PC but I very much doubt will support xVID and DIVX. Meaning I'll just have to wait for another no doubt superior homebrew solution.
Unless Microsoft does too good of a job protecting its console from crackers. While they are probably fine with Windows being pirated, I don't think they want cracked consoles around since they need total anti-cheat credibility in Live.
Originally posted by kotatsu
I'm shocked that anyone could say such a thing. Did you not play Zelda Wind Waker? Or the Metroid Prime games? How about Resident Evil 4, Animal Crossing, Piikmin or Viewtiful Joe?
The Cube had a ton of great games. IMO in terms of pure quality it was the best system of this generation.
In "average quality" perhaps, but that is counterbalanced by their sky high game prices compared to the others, and not many people pick their games at random anyway. In "top 10 games" GC would have a tough time against PS2, but it's very subjective at that point and again depends on what you want to play. And I think in hardware, the PS2 standard controller absolutely rocks vs the others. Soul Calibur 2 was hell when I tried to play with a GC Wavebird.
In addition to the Zelda and Pikmin you mentioned I am particularly interested in Ikaruga.
Damn that Nintendo for killing the picture out connector though
It's unfortunate the PS2 does not fare much better, and in current gen only XBox is good about picture mode handling.
Originally posted by kotatsu
Where Microsoft and Sony will be happy to just push more polys, I think Nintendo will really bring something new to gaming.
MS is the only one pushing polys. Technically speaking, the word is that Sony is moving to a NURBS-based 3D paradigm, like the one used on the PSP. Doing so allows a 10-100x reduction of memory, which translates to faster loading, less delay, better frame rates, and much cheaper per-unit-cost. Granted, you need a beast of an FPU to get it done (preferably more than one), but the Cell should be powerful enough to deliver a high-quality NURBS solution to the video game console.
Originally posted by Gon
[B]In "average quality" perhaps, but that is counterbalanced by their sky high game prices compared to the others, and not many people pick their games at random anyway. In "top 10 games" GC would have a tough time against PS2, but it's very subjective at that point and again depends on what you want to play. And I think in hardware, the PS2 standard controller absolutely rocks vs the others.
In addition to the Zelda and Pikmin you mentioned I am particularly interested in Ikaruga.
The top tier GC stuff is rated very highly across the board, but ultimately as with any entertainment product it all comes down to personal taste. Although I have a PS2 I haven't touched it since Gradius 5, and before that it was used only for ICO. It now gathers dust in a cupboard.
I could argue that the PS2 has absolutely nothing to touch Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Resident Evil 4 and Animal Crossing, but I think you get my line of thought now.
Which controller pad is best is another golden chestnut of the gaming world. Personally I rate the Cube pad best, although not for any game with digital input. The best all round pad (inc digital) I would have to say is the Xbox Controller S. PS2's Dual Shock has a horrid D-Pad and the left thumbstick is in the wrong place (should be where the D-Pad is), plus the pad has no analogue triggers crippling it for racing games. I'm not a fan...!
Ikaruga is a masterpiece. I bought the original import Dreamcast version and played it to death. It's hard as nails so expect to die a lot though.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
MS is the only one pushing polys. Technically speaking, the word is that Sony is moving to a NURBS-based 3D paradigm, like the one used on the PSP. Doing so allows a 10-100x reduction of memory, which translates to faster loading, less delay, better frame rates, and much cheaper per-unit-cost.
If the PS3 also has 256MB, or 512MB like some rumors claim, the 10-100x reduction you speak of could result in an absolutely ridiculous difference in the game worlds each console can push. Even if GPU limit is still there, concentrating attention on visibility algos will go a long way.
Damn I want to hear the facts about PS3. Especially controller, graphics and audio interfaces. It would suck if my new display or the arcade sticks I'm gonna buy for PS2 would not work with the new console.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
MS is the only one pushing polys. Technically speaking, the word is that Sony is moving to a NURBS-based 3D paradigm, like the one used on the PSP. Doing so allows a 10-100x reduction of memory, which translates to faster loading, less delay, better frame rates, and much cheaper per-unit-cost. Granted, you need a beast of an FPU to get it done (preferably more than one), but the Cell should be powerful enough to deliver a high-quality NURBS solution to the video game console.
I'd be careful beliving Sony rumours or hype. Remember the claims of PS2 being able to do 'Toy Story in real time'?.
My money is on PS2 being poly based.
Xbox 360 Hardware:
1. Support for DVD-video, DVD-Rom, DVD-R/RW, CD-DA, CD-Rom, CD-R, CD-RW, WMA CD, MP3 cd, JPEG photo CD
2. All games supported at 16: 9, 720p and 1080i, anti-aliasing
3. Customizable face plates to change appearance
4. 3 USB 2.0 ports
5. Support for 4 wireless controllers
6. Detachable 20GB drive
7. Wi-Fi ready
Custom IBM PowerPC-based CPU
- 3 symmetrical cores at 3.2 GHz each
- 2 hardware threads per core
- 1 VMX-128 vector unit per core
- 1 MB L2 cache
CPU Game Math Performance
- 9 billion dots per second
Custom ATI Graphics Processor
- 500 MHz
- 10 MB embedded DRAM
- 48-way parallel floating-point shader pipelines
- unified shader architecture
Memory
- 512 MB GDDR3 RAM
- 700 MHz DDR
Memory Bandwidth
- 22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
- 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
- 21.6 GB/s frontside bus
Audio
- Mulitchannel surround sond output
- Supports 48khz 16-bit audio
- 320 independent decompression channels
- 32 bit processing
- 256+ audio channels
??? wtf..
if those cpu-specs are somewhat right... i think i know what we're going to see at wwdc 2005
Originally posted by kotatsu
I could argue that the PS2 has absolutely nothing to touch Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Resident Evil 4 and Animal Crossing, but I think you get my line of thought now.
...
Ikaruga is a masterpiece. I bought the original import Dreamcast version and played it to death. It's hard as nails so expect to die a lot though.
I'm now playing Virtua Fighter 4 Evo, Contra:Shattered Soldier, Gradius 3&4, GTA:San Andreas. Soul Calibur 2 is sitting unused. I loved the first one but the second is not as fun. GT4 just came in the mail. I'll probably get Katamari Damacy next. I'm keeping an eye on bargain bins and used game shelves for stuff like Guilty Gear X2#R, Gradius V, R-Type Final, Metal Slug, Metal Gear Solids, Ico.
So that's where I'm coming from.
(goddammit those Gradius games are masochistic! I'm more of an R-Type guy...)
Originally posted by kotatsu
Remember the claims of PS2 being able to do 'Toy Story in real time'?.
The Playstation 2® with the revolutionary Emotion Engine is able to render Toy Story in real time.
...
Yes that's correct, the Playstation 2 is powerful enough to play DVDs in real time! Who would have thought??
Originally posted by kotatsu
I'd be careful beliving Sony rumours or hype. Remember the claims of PS2 being able to do 'Toy Story in real time'?.
My money is on PS2 being poly based.
I'm sure that it will work with polys, but since Sony is already using NURBS on the PSP, I see no reason for them to stop there. Having a mode for NURBS would give them a hefty leg-up on MS capabilities-wise, but will require game designers to change the way they do almost everything.
Beyond that, I don't see why a PS2 couldn't render Toy Story for S-video. Toy Story is rather unamazing by today's standards.
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Beyond that, I don't see why a PS2 couldn't render Toy Story for S-video. Toy Story is rather unamazing by today's standards.
S-video or not, I'm sceptical. An average Toy Story frame took slightly below eight computer hours on a Sparcstation 20.
Originally posted by groverat
Sony hype is laughable. Wait and see what ships.
Yes it is. We all 'teh Sony hype!'
BTW, how goes your 125 million poly/sec xbox games?
Grow up, guy.