What believe is that it is NOT more time consuming and costly way of doing things. If you subscribe to the "don't allow all fixes in at the last momement due to the risk" theory, then as you get closer and closer to a release, more and more of your engineering team is idle. However, if you have a concurrent update running, those people simply stop working on the "current" release and start working on the update. Thus you are NOT losing engineering time. And given that the updates are done via the internet, your first release + update is MUCH, MUCH quicker than a release, because you have to wait for production/disc duplication (3-5 weeks at least!). During that "dead" time until the product is in the user's hand, you can be working. In theory, you could have an update ready on the day the user gets the box, thus delivering MUCH more quality in the same time frame than just a release.
It ALWAYS is this. NO major software can be released bug free, so its always some kind of cost/# bugs left tradeoff. Those decisions are made by executives based on their reality. That's their job.
Short term gains over long term gains? That's an issue with all public companies. The quesiton: do shareholders (those who aren't also Tiger owners) CARE about the bug list? Are the amount of Tiger bugs so bad that analysts are reducing their ratings; are the Tiger bugs so bad that sales are slipping due to negative feedback? Is it so bad that people will remember and NOT flock to buy 10.5.0? Are the service costs (telephone, mainly) costs eating up all the profits? Another 3 months would have done wonders to the initial quality, but my guess that 10.4.2 would probably be of better quality than waiting 3 more months (due to my arguments above).
A car manufacturer, due to liability, needs to make the care safe. They need to make their cares as "bug free" at sale because those numbers are tracked (via JD Powers, etc) and used as buying tools. That isn't the case in software (unless the sw is so bad that a reviewer says "don't buy until update #1"). There really is no business incentive to wait 3 months, especially if what you are saying is true. "Good enough" for most people, and fixing the bugs later works until they either severly misjudge the risks or there is some "bug" competition like there is in cars?
I'm sorry, but you're wrong about that. You're just stating what you want to believe. But it's not true.
Insofar as the stock price is concerned. I never said that shareholders (unless they have Macs), care about the bug list. I don't know where you got that idea from.
I said that by releasing buggy software, Apple was able to sell into this quarter, raising what the market thought was a lackluster estimate.
And for those few here who don't seem to be able to tell when software is buggy or not, I can tell you that if it wasn't, we wouldn't be having these threads.
Man, if 10.4.2 fixes that pain in the ass problem where my iBook doesn't join my home network automatically when it wakes up, then I'd happily pay zero dollars for that!
(or is it IT'S, I can never remember, but, then again, I have so much trouble getting the whole "which is left and which is right" thing memorized too, so its not too surprising)
It's interesting in hypnosis, when you're working with arm catalepsy (having an arm levitate while the person watches their arm raise) that the right hand to do first is the left hand, which means that the right hand is the only hand left.
:-)
edit: damn, is this an "its" discussion or a left hand right hand thing?
edit: moved it to the it's thread anyway, just in case. any followup there.
All of these issues are nonissues for anyone who is still on 10.3.9.
I don't get it either. The updates are free - and it's brand new release. You think OSX was released premature? I bet the folks working on Longhorn, are watching Apple on their bug stamping parade with shivers down their spine. You ain't seen nothin yet.
Man, if 10.4.2 fixes that pain in the ass problem where my iBook doesn't join my home network automatically when it wakes up, then I'd happily pay zero dollars for that!
I had that same problem. It isn't Tiger though. You can configure it so that it automatically joins your network. What I had to do was set the Location to Automatic. There are multiple other settings to fiddle with so I'm not sure if this will fix your problem or not, but it's worth a try.
I had that same problem. It isn't Tiger though. You can configure it so that it automatically joins your network. What I had to do was set the Location to Automatic. There are multiple other settings to fiddle with so I'm not sure if this will fix your problem or not, but it's worth a try.
I can attest that this problem does exist. I've gone through all the permutations for AirPort, Network, and Keychain settings and my G5 won't autoconnect. My other AirPort std. laptops connect OK, but my G5 with AirPort Extreme doesn't want to connect. This problem wasn't as bad as my GPU overheating so I just live with it for the time being.
No softwear will ever be 100% error/bug free that just a fact of life. However saying that from what I hear Tiger does seem to have a high number of bugs, but weren't people useing these very formums say that Tige better be realeased in the first half of 05, may be if there wasn't such huge consumer/media pressure the Tiger would only be shipping now. Please people don't compair the bugs of Apple's softwear to those of Microsoft, thats like compairig a grummpy old man to hitler.
Q2DX won't be enabled by default for quite some time, but you can enable it(if your machine supports it) at any time using the Quartz Debug app. Makes a slight improvement in window scrolling, etc. (subjectively) on a 1.33 gHz 12" PB and a substantial difference on a 2.5 and 2.7 dual G5. What's more fun is changing the interface resolution (finally!). Menubar items which use Menu Extra Enabler look strange, but I can finally reduce the font size without using a haxie like Unsanity's Silk. Fun to play with.
Umm it's softWARE .... And theres nothing wrong with comparing Apple's OS bugs to M$. Both have huge QA staff, they shouldn't miss stuff like the bugs reported. Period. (and if you have to ask, yes I work in Software QA)
I had that same problem. It isn't Tiger though. You can configure it so that it automatically joins your network. What I had to do was set the Location to Automatic. There are multiple other settings to fiddle with so I'm not sure if this will fix your problem or not, but it's worth a try.
Thanks, but I have tried all of the different settings that I could think of and nothing seems to work. It's relatively easy to fix since I have the Airport Status displayed in the menubar.
No softwear will ever be 100% error/bug free that just a fact of life. However saying that from what I hear Tiger does seem to have a high number of bugs, but weren't people useing these very formums say that Tige better be realeased in the first half of 05, may be if there wasn't such huge consumer/media pressure the Tiger would only be shipping now. Please people don't compair the bugs of Apple's softwear to those of Microsoft, thats like compairig a grummpy old man to hitler.
Just my two cents.
The problem wasn't that Tiger wouldn't be released after June, but that it could have waited until the beginning of June
Apple is under more pressure to perform with reliable secure software more than ever before. Right now Apple is being examined with a fine tooth comb.
If people say that there's not much difference between it and MS, then they've lost the battle. They have to be much better to be the same.
I know that sounds strange, but you know what I mean. When companies first had to hire minorities, those hired had to work much harder to prove that they could work just as hard.
It wasn't fair, but it's human nature.
Apple is in that position. Many think it's inferior, it's not of course, but Apple has to be better. If they let things slip...
I argue with some editors about the its it's its' thing as well. The " ' " implies possesive. Most times there's no problem with using the " ' ", but some editors think that it isn't "modern".
"It's" is always a contraction for "it is" in English. The possessive form in English is always "its". This is not a new phenomena in the language, either, so has nothing to do with being modern. In fact, to be truly "modern" these days, you have to ignore all correct capitalization, spelling, and punctuation completely
All of these issues are nonissues for anyone who is still on 10.3.9.
That's fine logic, except:
1. Apple pre-installs Tiger on new machines now, when it's basically beta-quality.
2. There are a lot of new features for developers on Tiger, and Apple is pushing them hard. So you can be unproductive on 10.3.9 because of lack of APIs, or unproductive on 10.4 because of too many bugs. Great choice.
3. With the Mac Mini and similar attempts at mass-market penetration, there are a new influx of "switchers" at JUST the time when the software is at its buggiest. Who's going to believe that Macs are generally easy to use, good at multimedia, and problem free after using 10.4.0?
I just put my new Dual 2.0 running 10.4.1 in to service yesterday. I had a Kensington Multimedia Keyboard with the latest drivers which would work everywhere but the Finder. So I uninstalled the drivers and hooked up the Apple supplied keyboard and it exhibited the same dysfunction. Weird.
Comments
Originally posted by mcdawson
What believe is that it is NOT more time consuming and costly way of doing things. If you subscribe to the "don't allow all fixes in at the last momement due to the risk" theory, then as you get closer and closer to a release, more and more of your engineering team is idle. However, if you have a concurrent update running, those people simply stop working on the "current" release and start working on the update. Thus you are NOT losing engineering time. And given that the updates are done via the internet, your first release + update is MUCH, MUCH quicker than a release, because you have to wait for production/disc duplication (3-5 weeks at least!). During that "dead" time until the product is in the user's hand, you can be working. In theory, you could have an update ready on the day the user gets the box, thus delivering MUCH more quality in the same time frame than just a release.
It ALWAYS is this. NO major software can be released bug free, so its always some kind of cost/# bugs left tradeoff. Those decisions are made by executives based on their reality. That's their job.
Short term gains over long term gains? That's an issue with all public companies. The quesiton: do shareholders (those who aren't also Tiger owners) CARE about the bug list? Are the amount of Tiger bugs so bad that analysts are reducing their ratings; are the Tiger bugs so bad that sales are slipping due to negative feedback? Is it so bad that people will remember and NOT flock to buy 10.5.0? Are the service costs (telephone, mainly) costs eating up all the profits? Another 3 months would have done wonders to the initial quality, but my guess that 10.4.2 would probably be of better quality than waiting 3 more months (due to my arguments above).
A car manufacturer, due to liability, needs to make the care safe. They need to make their cares as "bug free" at sale because those numbers are tracked (via JD Powers, etc) and used as buying tools. That isn't the case in software (unless the sw is so bad that a reviewer says "don't buy until update #1"). There really is no business incentive to wait 3 months, especially if what you are saying is true. "Good enough" for most people, and fixing the bugs later works until they either severly misjudge the risks or there is some "bug" competition like there is in cars?
I'm sorry, but you're wrong about that. You're just stating what you want to believe. But it's not true.
Insofar as the stock price is concerned. I never said that shareholders (unless they have Macs), care about the bug list. I don't know where you got that idea from.
I said that by releasing buggy software, Apple was able to sell into this quarter, raising what the market thought was a lackluster estimate.
And for those few here who don't seem to be able to tell when software is buggy or not, I can tell you that if it wasn't, we wouldn't be having these threads.
-- I never lock threads.
Originally posted by wilco
Uh, oh! The glasses are coming off!
You're calling someone a nerd on a computer message board?
I bet I could take you with my right-click finger tied behind my back.
? adjective 1 determined not to change one?s attitude or position. 2 difficult to move, remove, or cure.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=54612
:d
Originally posted by Louzer
(or is it IT'S, I can never remember, but, then again, I have so much trouble getting the whole "which is left and which is right" thing memorized too, so its not too surprising)
It's interesting in hypnosis, when you're working with arm catalepsy (having an arm levitate while the person watches their arm raise) that the right hand to do first is the left hand, which means that the right hand is the only hand left.
:-)
edit: damn, is this an "its" discussion or a left hand right hand thing?
edit: moved it to the it's thread anyway, just in case. any followup there.
Why upgrade to 10.4, then complain.
All of these issues are nonissues for anyone who is still on 10.3.9.
Originally posted by TenoBell
I don't get the logic.
Why upgrade to 10.4, then complain.
All of these issues are nonissues for anyone who is still on 10.3.9.
I don't get it either. The updates are free - and it's brand new release. You think OSX was released premature? I bet the folks working on Longhorn, are watching Apple on their bug stamping parade with shivers down their spine. You ain't seen nothin yet.
Originally posted by macFanDave
Man, if 10.4.2 fixes that pain in the ass problem where my iBook doesn't join my home network automatically when it wakes up, then I'd happily pay zero dollars for that!
I had that same problem. It isn't Tiger though. You can configure it so that it automatically joins your network. What I had to do was set the Location to Automatic. There are multiple other settings to fiddle with so I'm not sure if this will fix your problem or not, but it's worth a try.
Originally posted by eekles77
I had that same problem. It isn't Tiger though. You can configure it so that it automatically joins your network. What I had to do was set the Location to Automatic. There are multiple other settings to fiddle with so I'm not sure if this will fix your problem or not, but it's worth a try.
I can attest that this problem does exist. I've gone through all the permutations for AirPort, Network, and Keychain settings and my G5 won't autoconnect. My other AirPort std. laptops connect OK, but my G5 with AirPort Extreme doesn't want to connect. This problem wasn't as bad as my GPU overheating so I just live with it for the time being.
Just my two cents.
Originally posted by eekles77
I had that same problem. It isn't Tiger though. You can configure it so that it automatically joins your network. What I had to do was set the Location to Automatic. There are multiple other settings to fiddle with so I'm not sure if this will fix your problem or not, but it's worth a try.
Thanks, but I have tried all of the different settings that I could think of and nothing seems to work. It's relatively easy to fix since I have the Airport Status displayed in the menubar.
Originally posted by kiwimac
No softwear will ever be 100% error/bug free that just a fact of life. However saying that from what I hear Tiger does seem to have a high number of bugs, but weren't people useing these very formums say that Tige better be realeased in the first half of 05, may be if there wasn't such huge consumer/media pressure the Tiger would only be shipping now. Please people don't compair the bugs of Apple's softwear to those of Microsoft, thats like compairig a grummpy old man to hitler.
Just my two cents.
The problem wasn't that Tiger wouldn't be released after June, but that it could have waited until the beginning of June
Apple is under more pressure to perform with reliable secure software more than ever before. Right now Apple is being examined with a fine tooth comb.
If people say that there's not much difference between it and MS, then they've lost the battle. They have to be much better to be the same.
I know that sounds strange, but you know what I mean. When companies first had to hire minorities, those hired had to work much harder to prove that they could work just as hard.
It wasn't fair, but it's human nature.
Apple is in that position. Many think it's inferior, it's not of course, but Apple has to be better. If they let things slip...
Originally posted by melgross
I argue with some editors about the its it's its' thing as well. The " ' " implies possesive. Most times there's no problem with using the " ' ", but some editors think that it isn't "modern".
"It's" is always a contraction for "it is" in English. The possessive form in English is always "its". This is not a new phenomena in the language, either, so has nothing to do with being modern. In fact, to be truly "modern" these days, you have to ignore all correct capitalization, spelling, and punctuation completely
n rite lyk this i luv it dont yu think its gr8?
Originally posted by TenoBell
I don't get the logic.
Why upgrade to 10.4, then complain.
All of these issues are nonissues for anyone who is still on 10.3.9.
That's fine logic, except:
1. Apple pre-installs Tiger on new machines now, when it's basically beta-quality.
2. There are a lot of new features for developers on Tiger, and Apple is pushing them hard. So you can be unproductive on 10.3.9 because of lack of APIs, or unproductive on 10.4 because of too many bugs. Great choice.
3. With the Mac Mini and similar attempts at mass-market penetration, there are a new influx of "switchers" at JUST the time when the software is at its buggiest. Who's going to believe that Macs are generally easy to use, good at multimedia, and problem free after using 10.4.0?
Originally posted by melgross
Sony said that they made sure that it didn't break.
ROFL! Ever used their appalling Minidisc kit?!