When it does get bumped, I hope it's a complete bump like the iMac G5 was just bumped. I'm talking 1.7GHz G4, Radeon 9600 with 128MB RAM (the old one had 64MB right?), Gb ethernet (semi useful for a consumer network, very useful for business), maybe pretty please Firewire 800?
I have several external hard drives that are FW800 equipped and totally agree with you - if the Mini had FW800 and GB ethernet, it would make a great home server. It is the only thing preventing me from buying one.
I agree. This late in the cycle, it is best to wait. But to expect Apple to update it just because they can is silly. If it's still selling strong, they will wait till it dies down, then update it to boost sales.
I agree. This late in the cycle, it is best to wait. But to expect Apple to update it just because they can is silly. If it's still selling strong, they will wait till it dies down, then update it to boost sales.
It needs to be updated as soon as the OS requires it, IMHO
The ONLY thing I notice about the GPU not being core-video compatible, is I don't get the ripple affect with dashboard. Thats it. end of story.
Well, that supposedly won't be the end of the story as soon as Apple flushes out the remaining bugs and offloads more of the more of the display processing to the GPU. It could be as soon as the next Tiger update.
If the Mini doesn't get these features, I'll never buy one. They're cute and all, but I don't think I've ever based a buying decision on cuteness.
IMO the Cube struck a better balance between size and features. It was overpriced, but surely Apple could build new Cube for about the price of a Mini! Most of the Cube's cost was probably due to the gee-whiz case construction, so if Apple built a new Cube in a plain case like that of the Mini, costs could be kept down.
It's nice that Apple is selling so many Minis, but I worry that they will leave their owners with a lasting bad impression of Macs as being slow, hard to expand, and low-tech compared to Wintels. If Mini buyers are left unsatisfied, it might be a very long time before they consider a Mac again, all because Apple was too cheap to build a Mini with a real HD, a few RAM slots, and a good video chipset. Amazing.
...I don't care if it came out last month, it can't handle the newest OS and that is unacceptable.
I run Tiger on my mini with no problems, thanks, though I bumped up the memory. 256MB is ridiculous. Whatever the "ripple effect" is, I don't miss it. Upgrades will come but probably not for a while yet.
No kidding. The Mini has better specs than my G4 PowerMac, and that PowerMac G4 runs Tiger better than it ever ran Panther, or Jaguar. Better startups, better app launching, all arround better performance, better everything. I love this OS. Other than dashboard which I presonally think is usless, stupid, and would like the option to remove it. I think It's great! I don't get the ripples in dashboard in this G4 either, but as I said, I dislike the dashboard on all my machines anyway. I would think the mini would handle it pretty well being that it's about double the MHz of this machine.
Some of you spec-whores are way over the top on the Mini. I bought mine in Feb, full knowing that it would not support the wobble effects in dashboard. Do I regret it? Nope.
I need the machine for surfing, word processing and light Photoshop for business work. Since Adobe won't suport Core* in the forseeable future, I am not losing phothops speed because of the GFX chip. On the other hand, it fully supports Quartz Extreme, so the System UI gets accellerated. And it is silent, small, and cheap enough that I can sell it a year down the road and buy a new revision if I choose to. That would not have been the case with a G5 tower.
If you are looking for fps for gaming, GigE, 128MB gfx memory or a 970, go look at a Powerbook, iMac, or Tower. The Mini is not for you. Stupid enraged refusals to buy will not hurt Apple - those people will end up buying somethin much more expensive. The mini is for those whose sales would otherwise be completely lost.
Next stop for the mini will be a slight speed bump in fall or the 7448 and a more powerful GFX chip in winter.
At least I hope Apple has learned the lesson from the Cube desaster and the way iMac sales have tanked after the move from G3 -> G4 (and the price bump). Bottom line is about compromises.
IMO the Cube struck a better balance between size and features. It was overpriced, but surely Apple could build new Cube for about the price of a Mini! Most of the Cube's cost was probably due to the gee-whiz case construction, so if Apple built a new Cube in a plain case like that of the Mini, costs could be kept down.
...
JYD, I usually agree with you completely, but you haven't seen the insides of a Cube. There's no way that machine could have been made cheaply.
The Mini, with its snap-together plastic case, is the cheapest computer design in history. I suspect Apple could sell them for $199 and still make money. But you're right, the HD needs to be a 3-1/2" drive. I've heard people say that an external FW drive is faster than the internal!
Oh, yes, I have a G4-400 Sawtooth with 8MB Rage which runs Tiger just fine, too.
Not likely. Mac minis run OS X this unit runs Windows. Apple will update the mini when they are ready. I'm thinking within the next couple of months.
Round about Paris Expo would be a good time in my opinion. Not necessarily on the day of the expo if it is just a speed bump, but perhaps within a few weeks, as they did with the recent PowerBook upgrades.
Why does Apple finally make a product that can sell and hamper it by not advertising it and not updating it?
Apple contracts out its manufacturing. It is very likely that they have to sign up for certain number of units, at a certain rate ( manufacturers have to balance their capacity ). We regularly see Apple try to strike a balance between early demand and ongoing capacity, they even stock pile for weeks before a launch in order to satisfy that initial burst of demand.
The net result is that Apple may have guessed that they are going to sell x minis per month, and committed to, say, 500,000. That commitment will flow all the way through their supply chain, and they wont perform an update until they are clear of that commitment. All depends on the number of machines they are selling, but it certainly wont concide with their OS release schedule. You also wont see a mini out speeding the powerbooks. So Apple may have projected sales out to point where they expect to upgrade the powerbooks, and after that the mini will be able to step up a little.
welp, at least I'm finding out that people like the Mini.
I still won't buy until an upgrade, but now I'm certain I will buy it, before i was hedging a bit.
It seems the Mac mini is not too different from something you proposed years ago. Put the guts of an iBook in a small desktop case and sell it cheap. Your idea created an interesting discussion from what I remember.
It seems the Mac mini is not too different from something you proposed years ago. Put the guts of an iBook in a small desktop case and sell it cheap. Your idea created an interesting discussion from what I remember.
Yes, I remember that.
However, I would have made the case easy to open, 2 RAM slots , and a replaceable graphics card. I also would never have used a slow 4200rpm hard drive.
Some of you spec-whores are way over the top on the Mini.
...
If you are looking for fps for gaming, GigE, 128MB gfx memory or a 970, go look at a Powerbook, iMac, or Tower. The Mini is not for you. Stupid enraged refusals to buy will not hurt Apple - those people will end up buying somethin much more expensive. The mini is for those whose sales would otherwise be completely lost.
The only reason people are complaining about the lack of those things in the Mini is that Apple does not offer a machine even remotely like that. Mini is the closest one because it's headless and priced well. If they had an in-between headless model, you would see 90% of that bitching go towards the in-between model (well, assuming there still was anything to bitch about).
Powerbook, iMac and Powermac are *all* woefully lacking in gaming terms, even if we stick to looking at hardware and totally skip the issue of software support.
If they can't make the machine that people really want, they would still have a strong seller in a (top-end) Mini with a faster GPU. But I can't see them putting different GPU's in the Mini lineup at this time (economies of scale), or a 9600 in the whole lineup (it's cheap but probably not cheap enough for Apple), or a bump as small as GF5200. I predict Radeon 9200's for rev B.
But I can't see them putting different GPU's in the Mini lineup at this time (economies of scale), or a 9600 in the whole lineup (it's cheap but probably not cheap enough for Apple), or a bump as small as GF5200. I predict Radeon 9200's for rev B.
In terms of other models in Apple's lineup, conceptually I think of the Mini as a headless eMac. Since the eMac was recently fitted with a Radeon 9600, I think it's logical to assume that the next Mini revision will also include a change to a fully CoreImage capable GPU. I would guess it gets a 64MB R9600 just like the eMac did or perhaps a Mobility R9600.
Comments
Originally posted by Outsider
When it does get bumped, I hope it's a complete bump like the iMac G5 was just bumped. I'm talking 1.7GHz G4, Radeon 9600 with 128MB RAM (the old one had 64MB right?), Gb ethernet (semi useful for a consumer network, very useful for business), maybe pretty please Firewire 800?
I have several external hard drives that are FW800 equipped and totally agree with you - if the Mini had FW800 and GB ethernet, it would make a great home server. It is the only thing preventing me from buying one.
Originally posted by steve666
welp, I ain't buying one until its updated.
I agree. This late in the cycle, it is best to wait. But to expect Apple to update it just because they can is silly. If it's still selling strong, they will wait till it dies down, then update it to boost sales.
Originally posted by football751
I agree. This late in the cycle, it is best to wait. But to expect Apple to update it just because they can is silly. If it's still selling strong, they will wait till it dies down, then update it to boost sales.
It needs to be updated as soon as the OS requires it, IMHO
Originally posted by football751
The ONLY thing I notice about the GPU not being core-video compatible, is I don't get the ripple affect with dashboard. Thats it. end of story.
Well, that supposedly won't be the end of the story as soon as Apple flushes out the remaining bugs and offloads more of the more of the display processing to the GPU. It could be as soon as the next Tiger update.
1. Drop a PPC 970 into it. The G4 is so 20th century.
2. Two RAM slots, or one RAM slot with a stick soldered to the motherboard.
3. On the low end, a Tiger compatible video chipset, on the high end, an agp/pci x video card slot, with a REAL video card in it
4. Desktop HD, 7200 rpm. Maybe 5400 rpm on low end, maybe.
If the Mini doesn't get these features, I'll never buy one. They're cute and all, but I don't think I've ever based a buying decision on cuteness.
IMO the Cube struck a better balance between size and features. It was overpriced, but surely Apple could build new Cube for about the price of a Mini! Most of the Cube's cost was probably due to the gee-whiz case construction, so if Apple built a new Cube in a plain case like that of the Mini, costs could be kept down.
It's nice that Apple is selling so many Minis, but I worry that they will leave their owners with a lasting bad impression of Macs as being slow, hard to expand, and low-tech compared to Wintels. If Mini buyers are left unsatisfied, it might be a very long time before they consider a Mac again, all because Apple was too cheap to build a Mini with a real HD, a few RAM slots, and a good video chipset. Amazing.
Originally posted by steve666
...I don't care if it came out last month, it can't handle the newest OS and that is unacceptable.
I run Tiger on my mini with no problems, thanks, though I bumped up the memory. 256MB is ridiculous. Whatever the "ripple effect" is, I don't miss it. Upgrades will come but probably not for a while yet.
I need the machine for surfing, word processing and light Photoshop for business work. Since Adobe won't suport Core* in the forseeable future, I am not losing phothops speed because of the GFX chip. On the other hand, it fully supports Quartz Extreme, so the System UI gets accellerated. And it is silent, small, and cheap enough that I can sell it a year down the road and buy a new revision if I choose to. That would not have been the case with a G5 tower.
If you are looking for fps for gaming, GigE, 128MB gfx memory or a 970, go look at a Powerbook, iMac, or Tower. The Mini is not for you. Stupid enraged refusals to buy will not hurt Apple - those people will end up buying somethin much more expensive. The mini is for those whose sales would otherwise be completely lost.
Next stop for the mini will be a slight speed bump in fall or the 7448 and a more powerful GFX chip in winter.
At least I hope Apple has learned the lesson from the Cube desaster and the way iMac sales have tanked after the move from G3 -> G4 (and the price bump). Bottom line is about compromises.
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg
...
4. Desktop HD, 7200 rpm. Maybe 5400 rpm on low end, maybe.
...
IMO the Cube struck a better balance between size and features. It was overpriced, but surely Apple could build new Cube for about the price of a Mini! Most of the Cube's cost was probably due to the gee-whiz case construction, so if Apple built a new Cube in a plain case like that of the Mini, costs could be kept down.
...
JYD, I usually agree with you completely, but you haven't seen the insides of a Cube. There's no way that machine could have been made cheaply.
The Mini, with its snap-together plastic case, is the cheapest computer design in history. I suspect Apple could sell them for $199 and still make money. But you're right, the HD needs to be a 3-1/2" drive. I've heard people say that an external FW drive is faster than the internal!
Oh, yes, I have a G4-400 Sawtooth with 8MB Rage which runs Tiger just fine, too.
That would open the way to having a REAL Home Media Server and not have to wait 2 years before we see a MacMini capable of decompressing H.264 and HD
Originally posted by Boukman
It looks like Intel is about to release some competition. Maybe that could accelerate the sought-after updating of the Mac mini?
Not likely. Mac minis run OS X this unit runs Windows. Apple will update the mini when they are ready. I'm thinking within the next couple of months.
Originally posted by hmurchison
Not likely. Mac minis run OS X this unit runs Windows. Apple will update the mini when they are ready. I'm thinking within the next couple of months.
Round about Paris Expo would be a good time in my opinion. Not necessarily on the day of the expo if it is just a speed bump, but perhaps within a few weeks, as they did with the recent PowerBook upgrades.
I still won't buy until an upgrade, but now I'm certain I will buy it, before i was hedging a bit.
Originally posted by steve666
Why hasn't the Mac Mini been updated?
Why does Apple finally make a product that can sell and hamper it by not advertising it and not updating it?
Apple contracts out its manufacturing. It is very likely that they have to sign up for certain number of units, at a certain rate ( manufacturers have to balance their capacity ). We regularly see Apple try to strike a balance between early demand and ongoing capacity, they even stock pile for weeks before a launch in order to satisfy that initial burst of demand.
The net result is that Apple may have guessed that they are going to sell x minis per month, and committed to, say, 500,000. That commitment will flow all the way through their supply chain, and they wont perform an update until they are clear of that commitment. All depends on the number of machines they are selling, but it certainly wont concide with their OS release schedule. You also wont see a mini out speeding the powerbooks. So Apple may have projected sales out to point where they expect to upgrade the powerbooks, and after that the mini will be able to step up a little.
Originally posted by steve666
welp, at least I'm finding out that people like the Mini.
I still won't buy until an upgrade, but now I'm certain I will buy it, before i was hedging a bit.
It seems the Mac mini is not too different from something you proposed years ago. Put the guts of an iBook in a small desktop case and sell it cheap. Your idea created an interesting discussion from what I remember.
Originally posted by snoopy
It seems the Mac mini is not too different from something you proposed years ago. Put the guts of an iBook in a small desktop case and sell it cheap. Your idea created an interesting discussion from what I remember.
Yes, I remember that.
However, I would have made the case easy to open, 2 RAM slots , and a replaceable graphics card. I also would never have used a slow 4200rpm hard drive.
Originally posted by Smircle
Some of you spec-whores are way over the top on the Mini.
...
If you are looking for fps for gaming, GigE, 128MB gfx memory or a 970, go look at a Powerbook, iMac, or Tower. The Mini is not for you. Stupid enraged refusals to buy will not hurt Apple - those people will end up buying somethin much more expensive. The mini is for those whose sales would otherwise be completely lost.
The only reason people are complaining about the lack of those things in the Mini is that Apple does not offer a machine even remotely like that. Mini is the closest one because it's headless and priced well. If they had an in-between headless model, you would see 90% of that bitching go towards the in-between model (well, assuming there still was anything to bitch about).
Powerbook, iMac and Powermac are *all* woefully lacking in gaming terms, even if we stick to looking at hardware and totally skip the issue of software support.
If they can't make the machine that people really want, they would still have a strong seller in a (top-end) Mini with a faster GPU. But I can't see them putting different GPU's in the Mini lineup at this time (economies of scale), or a 9600 in the whole lineup (it's cheap but probably not cheap enough for Apple), or a bump as small as GF5200. I predict Radeon 9200's for rev B.
Originally posted by Gon
But I can't see them putting different GPU's in the Mini lineup at this time (economies of scale), or a 9600 in the whole lineup (it's cheap but probably not cheap enough for Apple), or a bump as small as GF5200. I predict Radeon 9200's for rev B.
In terms of other models in Apple's lineup, conceptually I think of the Mini as a headless eMac. Since the eMac was recently fitted with a Radeon 9600, I think it's logical to assume that the next Mini revision will also include a change to a fully CoreImage capable GPU. I would guess it gets a 64MB R9600 just like the eMac did or perhaps a Mobility R9600.