Apple's filesystem with Intel

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jwink3101jwink3101
Posted:
in Future Apple Hardware edited January 2014
Does anybody know if apple will be using the NTFS file system on the new Intel Macs? I can see this as a major problem for those hoping to run windows on thier mac.



Also, if Apple does do NTFS, will Mac OS X read HFS+ still (my guess is yes). And, if they go NTFS, does that mean that people using PPC macs will be able to read and write NTFS?



Thanks for the help.
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Comments

  • Reply 1 of 48
    thttht Posts: 6,004member
    Apple will use HFS+.



    The processor has nothing to do with the filesystem.
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  • Reply 2 of 48
    jwink3101jwink3101 Posts: 739member
    so how do people plan on running windows on thier intel macs? I know you can get programs to use HFS+ in windows but won't that be of no help when just installing?



    Is it possible to have two different drive partitions with different file systems? Would a user just want to use the old, outdated, FAT32 and have the 4 gb max file size?



    Thanks
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  • Reply 3 of 48
    thttht Posts: 6,004member
    People who want to use multiple operating systems on the same machine will have to have different drive partitions.



    This is the way it is done for virtually all multi-boot systems. Eg, a dual-boot Linux and XP system would have 2 drive partitions with NTFS on one and the Linux filesystem on the other. A dual-boot Linux and OS X system would have 2 drive partitions. A triple-boot Linux, XP, and OS X would have 3 drive partitions, with each partition formatted to the filesystem needed for each operating system.



    It's the cleanest way for operating systems that are so disparate in design.
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  • Reply 4 of 48
    smirclesmircle Posts: 1,035member
    The Apple transition document mentions that the inMacs will use a different partitioning scheme than the one traditionally used by Macs.



    This is going to be the same braindead scheme used by all OSses on x86, which is enforced by the limitations of BIOS. Inside this, partitions can be formatted with HFS+, which is the most likely choice for a file system.
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  • Reply 5 of 48
    gene cleangene clean Posts: 3,481member
    Except that, we don't really know if Apple is going to use BIOS. From what I've read, they won't, instead they'll use a new Intel technology called EFI (IIRC).



    They should at least add support for filesystems like ext2/3, and ReiserFS so that I don't have to format my Linux drives in FAT32 to be able to write to them (you can install Linux on a VFAT a.k.a FAT32 drive).
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  • Reply 6 of 48
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Gene Clean

    Except that, we don't really know if Apple is going to use BIOS. From what I've read, they won't, instead they'll use a new Intel technology called EFI (IIRC).



    They should at least add support for filesystems like ext2/3, and ReiserFS so that I don't have to format my Linux drives in FAT32 to be able to write to them (you can install Linux on a VFAT a.k.a FAT32 drive).



    Apple has not decided what it will use--Open Firmware, EFI, something comepletely new, whatever. Anyone who says anything to the contrary is just blowing smoke.
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  • Reply 7 of 48
    wormboywormboy Posts: 220member
    Apple has stated that they won't be using Open Firmware. And while they have not told us what they will be using, I would be astonished to learn that Apple "has not decided" what solution to use. I would also be astonished if that solution was not EFI (though to deter any claim that I'm blowing smoke, I'll state clearly that I don't have any idea what boot loader Apple will use)
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  • Reply 8 of 48
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by THT

    Apple will use HFS+.



    Certainly that is the quickest path to getting things working. I wonder if they will use an endian-standardized version, or use big-endian on PPC and small-endian on Mac? The latter was the short-sighted decision made for Minix, and as a result Atari Minix users couldn't exchange removable media with Intel ones. Stupid.



    Someone with a development machine ought to be able to determine that fairly quickly.
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  • Reply 9 of 48
    dhagan4755dhagan4755 Posts: 2,152member
    I don't see why Apple would have to change the file system from HFS+ or HFS+J simply because they are moving to the Intel architecture.
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  • Reply 10 of 48
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by wormboy

    Apple has stated that they won't be using Open Firmware.



    Link please.
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  • Reply 11 of 48
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. Me

    Link please.



    What is it that leaves people so thoroughly incapable of using Google for themselves? Seriously 4 words, intel apple open firmware. You're just lazy.
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  • Reply 12 of 48
    wormboywormboy Posts: 220member
    Lazy. No kidding. Google: "Apple BIOS Open Firmware"



    Top hit?





    ADC
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  • Reply 13 of 48
    wmfwmf Posts: 1,164member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by cubist

    Certainly that is the quickest path to getting things working. I wonder if they will use an endian-standardized version, or use big-endian on PPC and small-endian on Mac?



    I think it's safe to assume that Apple's going to do the right thing here.
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  • Reply 14 of 48
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by wormboy

    Lazy. No kidding. Google: "Apple BIOS Open Firmware"



    Top hit?





    ADC



    It is well known that the development machines use the Phoenix BIOS rather than Open Firmware. If you thought that was worthy of a post six days after everyone else learned it, then I am sorry. I misunderstood. For the rest of us, the controversy is what will Apple's retail computers use. And for these, Apple has not decided. If they have decided, then they are not saying.
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  • Reply 15 of 48
    jlljll Posts: 2,713member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. Me

    It is well known that the development machines use the Phoenix BIOS rather than Open Firmware. If you thought that was worthy of a post six days after everyone else learned it, then I am sorry. I misunderstood. For the rest of us, the controversy is what will Apple's retail computers use. And for these, Apple has not decided. If they have decided, then they are not saying.



    They aren't saying if they are going to use BIOS or EFI, but they do say that they aren't going to use Open Firmware.
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  • Reply 16 of 48
    mr. memr. me Posts: 3,221member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by JLL

    They aren't saying if they are going to use BIOS or EFI, but they do say that they aren't going to use Open Firmware.



    This post from Apple to the Apple developer mailing list only lays out the nature of the argument. It doesn't say what Apple will or will not use. Do you have other information? If you have it, please post a link.
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  • Reply 17 of 48
    cubistcubist Posts: 954member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by wmf

    I think it's safe to assume that Apple's going to do the right thing here.



    It's never safe to assume anyone will do the right thing. The best thing, IMHO, would be a system like TIFF where you use native endian where possible for speed, but detect and accept the other endian when it's presented; but standardized endian is good too. Someone who has the developer system ought to be able to answer this question rather quickly... Just connect a Mac-formatted iPod and see if it works, right?
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  • Reply 18 of 48
    keshkesh Posts: 621member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. Me

    This post from Apple to the Apple developer mailing list only lays out the nature of the argument. It doesn't say what Apple will or will not use. Do you have other information? If you have it, please post a link.



    Straight from the horse's mouth.
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  • Reply 19 of 48
    telomartelomar Posts: 1,804member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Mr. Me

    This post from Apple to the Apple developer mailing list only lays out the nature of the argument. It doesn't say what Apple will or will not use. Do you have other information? If you have it, please post a link.



    Actually that post pretty well spells out what they're doing. Firstly they are telling people to move away from Open Firmware. Second they are saying nobody wants them to use BIOS. Then finally they have said anybody familiar with it is wanting them to use EFI.



    Apple has a way of making very solid hints before they straight out tell you.
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  • Reply 20 of 48
    i hate apple nowi hate apple now Posts: 12member
    Quote:

    Originally posted by Jwink3101

    Does anybody know if apple will be using the NTFS file system on the new Intel Macs? I can see this as a major problem for those hoping to run windows on thier mac.



    Also, if Apple does do NTFS, will Mac OS X read HFS+ still (my guess is yes). And, if they go NTFS, does that mean that people using PPC macs will be able to read and write NTFS?



    Thanks for the help.



    I guess it depends on what drives e-machines installs on the wintel macs.
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