Thanks guys for the amuzing reading and some good laughing along the way.
I have been a Mac user for more than 10 years and personally cannot see Apple Licencing out OS X to anyone and or allowing it to run on non-Mac hardware.
As for the OS Wars there is only one clear winner and that is
Why would they want to? MS is big and slow and dumb. Apple is small and fast and smart. No reason to ruin their hardware business in order to make money from software licensing.
As others have said, the Mac is successful because you get great software with compatible hardware. It just works. If Apple has to support a million different hardware configurations they'll lose focus of their main business, which has always been hardware sales.
The world largest software company who kicked apple ass all over the field is big, slow and dumb?. Bill Gates dumb?. I'm an apple fan like anyone but the last thing Microsoft is, is dumb. This company is not dumb. They may be sloppy, they may be big, they may even be slow but dumb, certainly not. The surest way to defeat is to understimate your opponent.
As to apple just works, My mac has crashed 15 times in the last month. Apple used to make great software but not anymore. Their quality has definetly dropped. I still love apple for the experience (the GUI, relative lack of virus, etc) but their quality has most definetly dropped. As to ruining their hardware business.. what is so sacred about the hardware business? There are case after case of big companies in america not adapting and going the way of the dinosaur. The day may come when licensing makes sense. I have no idea when that day is for apple but stating that apple would never license to protect their hardware business is a little naive. Hardware is a commodity. Anyone can build a mac (if apple allows it). There is nothing special in putting the components together. Not everyone can create OS X. The software is infinetly more valuable than the hardware.
I think it's not outside the realm of possibility that apple might do limited licensing to key manufacturers in the future. I could see apple doing it if the name 'apple' for computers starts to become as powerful as the name 'ipod' for mp3 players. If apple gains substantial clout, they could probably work out licensing deals that would enable them to expand their market share substantially without marginalizing their own products. Of course, I don't see this happening until well after the intel switch has established itself, and even then, it'd most likely be limited to only a couple manufacturers.
When you consider the fact that HP sells Apple iPods that are identical to Apple's iPod save for an added logo or two, it doesn't seem too outside the conceivable that apple could work up a similar type licensing deal, either with OS X, or even with a model of their computers. The Mac mini from HP type thing. *shrug*
Either way, I think that the potential for massive growth in apple's market share is truly great and may very well be realized in the next 5 years, as this happens, their stock stands to double all over again, if that happens, wrong robot is going to be a *very* pleased person.
The world largest software company who kicked apple ass all over the field is big, slow and dumb?. Bill Gates dumb?. I'm an apple fan like anyone but the last thing Microsoft is, is dumb. This company is not dumb. They may be sloppy, they may be big, they may even be slow but dumb, certainly not. The surest way to defeat is to understimate your opponent.
You appear to be overlooking the fact that they broke the law on numerous occasions to obtain their success.
Is MS dumb? Now? Yes. It did get big and bureaucratic and the leaders have lost their edge.
Need proof?
Microsoft Bob.
They missed the internet
They missed the importance of search
The missed the music business.
And even recently, with Jobs announcing iTunes 4.9 with podcasting. The next week Microsofties were calling around promising "amazing podcasting functionality in Longhorn." Pretty pathetic.
MSoft used to be lean and mean and smart. But they have lost their roots. And don't ever forget the illegal tactics they used to gain their success. You don't have to be smart to be a successful convicted felon.
Of all the Dell's I have worked with in the past 2 years, all of them have had physical defect and required RMA. One had a bad power supply, our work PCs had Hard drives recalled. Another friend had the entire machine replaced because they didn't know what was wrong with it. We are talking about 3 machines I had a first person experience with, but also consider my office has probably 500 machines involved in the HD recall. Is a faulty HD Dell's fault? In this case, I say yes. Just about everyone knows that Maxtor drives run quite hot, yet Dell chose to cram them in their tiny, poorly ventilated Optiplex cases anyway. I imagine they saved $5 a PC, until they had to replace thousands of them. Sure, everything is fixed under warranty, but it's not worth having a computer that can't keep a hard drive for more than 6 months. Dell can hold the number one position because people blame Windows for everything. Dell and Gateway both used to make great PCs, until they started making cheap PCs. Gateway fell apart because they lost their reputation. It's very possible Dell could do the same thing.
btw, it's not a pissing contest, I'm speaking from user experience. That normally counts for something.
You appear to be overlooking the fact that they broke the law on numerous occasions to obtain their success.
Is MS dumb? Now? Yes. It did get big and bureaucratic and the leaders have lost their edge.
Need proof?
Microsoft Bob.
They missed the internet
They missed the importance of search
The missed the music business.
And even recently, with Jobs announcing iTunes 4.9 with podcasting. The next week Microsofties were calling around promising "amazing podcasting functionality in Longhorn." Pretty pathetic.
MSoft used to be lean and mean and smart. But they have lost their roots. And don't ever forget the illegal tactics they used to gain their success. You don't have to be smart to be a successful convicted felon.
Hmm.. lets see
Pop quiz.
1. Which company, despite being small was able to steal windows from larger company with better lawyers
A. IBM
B. Microsoft.
2. Which company, despite being more innovative, failed to patent it's user interface thus allowing it's competitor to reduce it to near irrelevance
A. Microsoft
B. Apple.
3. Who was the C.E.O of the company that was dumb enough not to patent his company revolutionary GUI.
A. Bill Gates
B. Steven P Jobs.
4. Which company destroyed Visalcac and Wordperfect
A. Apple
B. Microsoft.
5. Which company has destroyed numerous competitors by being ruthless and taking no prisoners
A. Apple
B. Microsoft
6. Which company you cannot absolutely dismiss if that company decides to enter your product space
A. Apple
B. Microsoft.
7. Which company has had the most failures
A. Microsoft (Microsoft Bob, missing the internet, missing importance of search, missing music business)
B. Apple (the cube, Copeland, Failing to allow clones thus consigning themselves to be nearly irrelevant, Newton, Missing enterprise market, Apple Lisa).
If you answered A to any of the questions above, give yourself a 0. If you answer B to any question above, give yourself a score of 1. If your score is 7. You are a genius, a regular einstein.
In fact, i am willing to bet microsoft has more failures than apple. Sometimes, more failures indicates more aggressiveness. Microsoft has more failures than I do in business. They have numerous, i have 0. They are a multibillion company, I have 0 revenues. It's always cute to list microsoft failures without realizing that they were at least trying things. They were doers, not thinkers. The more things you try, the more things you fail at. Listing microsoft failures is really irrelevant because so what?. For every area they failed to forsee, they managed to dominate. Less innovative does not equate to being dumb. Besides, there is no prize for being first to market. Being first to market did not help apple, did it? (GUI, newton, etc)
And don't be smug about itunes 4.9. Apple did not invent podcasting and they sure as hell did not forsee it. They are stealing the idea themselves. So what if microsoft will implement it later? Should we give apple a cookie for stealing the idea first?. As to some of microsoft tactics being illegal, yeah sure but that shows microsoft adapts. At first they were small and could not enforce their will, as they got bigger, they were able to enforce their will. If you think apple does not admire that, then you are not paying attention. Apple is doing same thing with Ipod. In fact, Apple is doing exactly what microsoft would have done with the Ipod. I think Steve Jobs has learned his lesson.
In business, no one cares if you are mother theresa. As a stockholder, i could care less if Steve wants to be fair, I want him to crush the competition. Finally, Jobs has seen the light. Business is about competition. No company gets points for being nice. The only reason apple fans harp on that is because apple lost. No current apple fan seems to have a problem with the way apple is treating the competition with the Ipod. I don't see any of you losing sleep over this. Where are the people shouting "apple, be fair!!". The losers always complain. Apple had more market share than microsoft at one point. That they allowed a company with less market share to bully them to a 5% market share is pathetic, don't you think?
Of all the Dell's I have worked with in the past 2 years, all of them have had physical defect and required RMA. One had a bad power supply, our work PCs had Hard drives recalled. Another friend had the entire machine replaced because they didn't know what was wrong with it. We are talking about 3 machines I had a first person experience with, but also consider my office has probably 500 machines involved in the HD recall. Is a faulty HD Dell's fault? In this case, I say yes. Just about everyone knows that Maxtor drives run quite hot, yet Dell chose to cram them in their tiny, poorly ventilated Optiplex cases anyway. I imagine they saved $5 a PC, until they had to replace thousands of them. Sure, everything is fixed under warranty, but it's not worth having a computer that can't keep a hard drive for more than 6 months. Dell can hold the number one position because people blame Windows for everything. Dell and Gateway both used to make great PCs, until they started making cheap PCs. Gateway fell apart because they lost their reputation. It's very possible Dell could do the same thing.
btw, it's not a pissing contest, I'm speaking from user experience. That normally counts for something.
Oh right, Apple's NEVER had a recall, NEVER had a class action hardware lawsuit (several DOZEN at last count), NEVER replaced hardware under warrenty?
iPod batteries anyone? Who made the batteries? NOT Apple!
Dell hard drive issues? Who made the hard drives? NOT Dell!
So using your FLAWED logic, you want to blame hardware issues on the software?
You definately ARE NOT Letterman!
I too speak from experience, as do tens of millions of other satisfied Dell users, as do dozens of other satisfied Apple users!
It bare's repeating. Can you say MARKET SHARE? Can you spell MARKET SHARE? Can you read?
Most of us were toilet trained at an early age, what door have you been standing behind? Where do I send the Depends?
All I can say is you must be a Democrat! Can you spell SORE LOSER?
Oh right, Apple's NEVER had a recall, NEVER had a class action hardware lawsuit (several DOZEN at last count), NEVER replaced hardware under warrenty?
iPod batteries anyone? Who made the batteries? NOT Apple!
Dell hard drive issues? Who made the hard drives? NOT Dell!
So using your FLAWED logic, you want to blame hardware issues on the software?
You definately ARE NOT Letterman!
I too speak from experience, as do tens of millions of other satisfied Dell users, as do dozens of other satisfied Apple users!
It bare's repeating. Can you say MARKET SHARE? Can you spell MARKET SHARE? Can you read?
Most of us were toilet trained at an early age, what door have you been standing behind? Where do I send the Depends?
All I can say is you must be a Democrat! Can you spell SORE LOSER?
Frank, that was uncalled for. During the clinton years, the republicans moaned so often about clinton, i thought there were trying to make a porno flick. What's my point?. The minority party always complain about the majority. If that was a measure of who is loser, then frank, we are all losers (actually, republicans, after 6+ years, still complain about clinton). At least democrats stopped complaining about Reagon or Bush Senior. If you want to start a riot, go to a republican convention, take a microphone and shout "I love clinton!!". Good luck making it out alive. In contrast, the day after GW is booted from office, you'd be able to go to a democrat convention, shout "I love GW" and no one would even pay attention to you. We only pay attention to GW cause he's president. Who should we pay attention to? Bob, the next door neighbor? (actually, i should probably pay attention to my next door neighbor.. oh man!!, she is cute, but that is another story).
That's nonsense. If this happens, it won't be for at least a year, possibly two. If Apple is working on "Numbers", and can put a version of Filemaker into the product then they would have a good suite.
Both Keynote and Pages are going to be upgraded.
If MS goes to XML as they are saying that they will, then file compatability will be easy.
Besides, Apple and any PC companies they might be working with would be aware of this, and would have something to offer. OpenOffice would also work.
First off, XML has absolutely nothing to do with file compatibility. You can output a file for Word 2003 compatibility now. Its not XML. XML makes it easier to read the content from a file, theoretically, depending on how the data is stored. But there's no saying at this point what MS's format is going to look like.
Second, file compatibiltiy doesn't mean 100% compatibile. OpenOffice says its compatible now, but, I believe, still can't handle certain features in Word documents. Plus, OpenOffice is a joke of a program. It tries to be too much like Office and not enough "Hey, what do people really want".
Third, iWork is also a joke, although the spreadsheet will help some. But it isn't close to being a Word killer. Keynote can be OK, depending on what you do presentations and PP for. But Pages lacks a lot of Word features that people use. Plus, its really a replacement for a simple page-layout program more than a Word processor.
Firstly, Dell is just making noise to play Apple against Monopolysoft, like they play AMD against Intel, for cheaper prices.
Second, it would be GREAT in the long run, only IF one thing is met. Apple should at least at first license MacOS X out in a VERY limitied fashion, on just certain high-end, and maybe one or two low-end Dell models, and maybe a few HP models. Hey they do it with the HPod. Have both brand names stamped, have Dell/HP do the support. Validate all drivers. Ship. Take cut of profits. Step 3 steal underpants Step 4 ???? Step 5 ???? Step 6 profit!!
Seriously. Paradigm change. Finally admitted it. The OS is the soul of the computer. He's right. As long as it's quality hardware it is. And if they validate Dell hardware and drivers there is no reason they can't make a decent box to run OS X. Sure it's ugly but umm, it's cheap. It sells. Period.
I agree. If Apple licenses to Dell, they will hurt--unless they want to lose all their hardware sales.
Not only that, Dells are quite crappy, IMO, especially all their entry level models. The workstation at my office is a Dell, and in the first 3 months, it fatally crashed 4 times, requiring a reformat each time. It had its third hard drive installed at about 6 months. Before you say it, I'm not a PC newbie. I've built maybe a dozen systems and have never had this kind of trouble running MS office. I wasn't the only person in the office with these issues either. If Apple allows OSX to be installed on this kind of crap, who knows what it will do for their reputation of "simply working." I know Dell is planning a "premium" line of PCs soon, which must really say something about the rest of their desktop product line. I still think Apple needs to keep things proprietary, if only to protect the image of system stability that helps them sell systems.
Here is MY prediction.
When APPLE ships LEPARD, it will be a self optimizing system, they will ship Mac OS X FOR ALL win/tel HARDWARE.
Mac hardware will then be based the Intel chip that has the most Alpha remnants in it ...
... about 10 TEN TIMES FASTER then the fastest Intel chip today !!!
Windows will run on this be much slow than OS X because they are no optimizing their systems for 64 bit.
And Winblows will also do porely on many other systems for the same reason.
You are one rude individual. FYI, I'm not a democrat, but I do kinda look like Date Letterman. However, maybe you shouldn't character assassinate every person who disagrees with you, especially over a PC. You have had good experiences with Dell, mine have been terrible. God forbid someone else might have an opinion different than your seemingly all-knowing mind. Based on your logic, what kind of person does that make you?
If you need a historical example, look at Gateway (2000). In the 90s, Gateway was huge. Into the 21st century, they started making cheaper PCs, and have gradually lost their image of reliability and quality. They have since closed down their outlets and now sell in Best Buys. I merely suggest that Dell could be heading down the same road. Yes, they have the most market share, but that doesn't mean they are the best. Dell sells machines for typically the cheapest price, and they also advertise the most (thanks in large part to a deal with Intel). There are millions of people out there that don't know what makes a PC good or bad, but they do know that they've heard of Dell, and that they are pretty cheap. Offices use Dell because Dell can supply lots of PCs at a good discount. Who at businesses makes the final decision on what PC to purchase? Not the tech department. You base your reasoning on market share. Does that mean GM makes the best cars? Does that mean McDonnald's makes the best hamburger? Quality helps, but price and image go a very very long way.
You are one rude individual. FYI, I'm not a democrat, but I do kinda look like Date Letterman. However, maybe you shouldn't character assassinate every person who disagrees with you, especially over a PC. You have had good experiences with Dell, mine have been terrible. God forbid someone else might have an opinion different than your seemingly all-knowing mind. Based on your logic, what kind of person does that make you?
If you need a historical example, look at Gateway (2000). In the 90s, Gateway was huge. Into the 21st century, they started making cheaper PCs, and have gradually lost their image of reliability and quality. They have since closed down their outlets and now sell in Best Buys. I merely suggest that Dell could be heading down the same road. Yes, they have the most market share, but that doesn't mean they are the best. Dell sells machines for typically the cheapest price, and they also advertise the most (thanks in large part to a deal with Intel). There are millions of people out there that don't know what makes a PC good or bad, but they do know that they've heard of Dell, and that they are pretty cheap. Offices use Dell because Dell can supply lots of PCs at a good discount. Who at businesses makes the final decision on what PC to purchase? Not the tech department. You base your reasoning on market share. Does that mean GM makes the best cars? Does that mean McDonnald's makes the best hamburger? Quality helps, but price and image go a very very long way.
DELL could go belly up at any minute if the public managed to find out what their true finances are, that they have cut margins so thin they are in the red. And accounting tricks have been hiding that fact for a while.
This could easily happen but is NOT likely now that Dell has soo much experience, although if he were distracted somehow, it can't be an easy company to run ...
Firstly, Dell is just making noise to play Apple against Monopolysoft, like they play AMD against Intel, for cheaper prices.
Second, it would be GREAT in the long run, only IF one thing is met. Apple should at least at first license MacOS X out in a VERY limitied fashion, on just certain high-end, and maybe one or two low-end Dell models, and maybe a few HP models. Hey they do it with the HPod. Have both brand names stamped, have Dell/HP do the support. Validate all drivers. Ship. Take cut of profits. Step 3 steal underpants Step 4 ???? Step 5 ???? Step 6 profit!!
Seriously. Paradigm change. Finally admitted it. The OS is the soul of the computer. He's right. As long as it's quality hardware it is. And if they validate Dell hardware and drivers there is no reason they can't make a decent box to run OS X. Sure it's ugly but umm, it's cheap. It sells. Period.
Apple vs Microsoft ROUND 2!
yup. discrete and tightly controlled licensing is very very possible. that's the power of your brand and brand value, once your initial investment in building up your brand is there, you milk it.
case in point: ferrari laptop as some of you have definitely seen:
Also, speaking of licensing, for the AsiaPacific market to get into MacOS, and even gamer/enthusiast market globally, i think Asustek notebooks are some of the nicest looking and feeling laptops out there:
and they have a CarbonFibre one, you, know, carbon fibre, like we were "supposed" to get for the powerBook g5
let's step out from our mac fantasy land for a second,
ignore the crappy text design on the webpage, and focus on the product design and styling features (widescreen on the ultraportable, white carbon fibre keys??) of the hardware of asus notebook. let's think about Mac os X running on something like these, spreading the joy of Mac...
You appear to be overlooking the fact that they broke the law on numerous occasions to obtain their success.
And even recently, with Jobs announcing iTunes 4.9 with podcasting. The next week Microsofties were calling around promising "amazing podcasting functionality in Longhorn." Pretty pathetic.
MSoft used to be lean and mean and smart. But they have lost their roots. And don't ever forget the illegal tactics they used to gain their success. You don't have to be smart to be a successful convicted felon.
Finally someone else calling a "felon" a "felon." And I know there are plenty of apologists that think everything is fair in love, war and business, but to me a company convicted of crimes (though not penalized due to changes at DOJ) is something that can not be ignored. To ignore them is to ignore any group that breaks the law ... whether you are a rightie or leftie.
Comments
I have been a Mac user for more than 10 years and personally cannot see Apple Licencing out OS X to anyone and or allowing it to run on non-Mac hardware.
As for the OS Wars there is only one clear winner and that is
Mac OS X
Windows Sux
Just My 2¢
Rob
Originally posted by geekdreams
Why would they want to? MS is big and slow and dumb. Apple is small and fast and smart. No reason to ruin their hardware business in order to make money from software licensing.
As others have said, the Mac is successful because you get great software with compatible hardware. It just works. If Apple has to support a million different hardware configurations they'll lose focus of their main business, which has always been hardware sales.
The world largest software company who kicked apple ass all over the field is big, slow and dumb?. Bill Gates dumb?. I'm an apple fan like anyone but the last thing Microsoft is, is dumb. This company is not dumb. They may be sloppy, they may be big, they may even be slow but dumb, certainly not. The surest way to defeat is to understimate your opponent.
As to apple just works, My mac has crashed 15 times in the last month. Apple used to make great software but not anymore. Their quality has definetly dropped. I still love apple for the experience (the GUI, relative lack of virus, etc) but their quality has most definetly dropped. As to ruining their hardware business.. what is so sacred about the hardware business? There are case after case of big companies in america not adapting and going the way of the dinosaur. The day may come when licensing makes sense. I have no idea when that day is for apple but stating that apple would never license to protect their hardware business is a little naive. Hardware is a commodity. Anyone can build a mac (if apple allows it). There is nothing special in putting the components together. Not everyone can create OS X. The software is infinetly more valuable than the hardware.
When you consider the fact that HP sells Apple iPods that are identical to Apple's iPod save for an added logo or two, it doesn't seem too outside the conceivable that apple could work up a similar type licensing deal, either with OS X, or even with a model of their computers. The Mac mini from HP type thing. *shrug*
Either way, I think that the potential for massive growth in apple's market share is truly great and may very well be realized in the next 5 years, as this happens, their stock stands to double all over again, if that happens, wrong robot is going to be a *very* pleased person.
Originally posted by wnurse
The world largest software company who kicked apple ass all over the field is big, slow and dumb?. Bill Gates dumb?. I'm an apple fan like anyone but the last thing Microsoft is, is dumb. This company is not dumb. They may be sloppy, they may be big, they may even be slow but dumb, certainly not. The surest way to defeat is to understimate your opponent.
You appear to be overlooking the fact that they broke the law on numerous occasions to obtain their success.
Is MS dumb? Now? Yes. It did get big and bureaucratic and the leaders have lost their edge.
Need proof?
Microsoft Bob.
They missed the internet
They missed the importance of search
The missed the music business.
And even recently, with Jobs announcing iTunes 4.9 with podcasting. The next week Microsofties were calling around promising "amazing podcasting functionality in Longhorn." Pretty pathetic.
MSoft used to be lean and mean and smart. But they have lost their roots. And don't ever forget the illegal tactics they used to gain their success. You don't have to be smart to be a successful convicted felon.
Of all the Dell's I have worked with in the past 2 years, all of them have had physical defect and required RMA. One had a bad power supply, our work PCs had Hard drives recalled. Another friend had the entire machine replaced because they didn't know what was wrong with it. We are talking about 3 machines I had a first person experience with, but also consider my office has probably 500 machines involved in the HD recall. Is a faulty HD Dell's fault? In this case, I say yes. Just about everyone knows that Maxtor drives run quite hot, yet Dell chose to cram them in their tiny, poorly ventilated Optiplex cases anyway. I imagine they saved $5 a PC, until they had to replace thousands of them. Sure, everything is fixed under warranty, but it's not worth having a computer that can't keep a hard drive for more than 6 months. Dell can hold the number one position because people blame Windows for everything. Dell and Gateway both used to make great PCs, until they started making cheap PCs. Gateway fell apart because they lost their reputation. It's very possible Dell could do the same thing.
btw, it's not a pissing contest, I'm speaking from user experience. That normally counts for something.
Originally posted by BWhaler
You appear to be overlooking the fact that they broke the law on numerous occasions to obtain their success.
Is MS dumb? Now? Yes. It did get big and bureaucratic and the leaders have lost their edge.
Need proof?
Microsoft Bob.
They missed the internet
They missed the importance of search
The missed the music business.
And even recently, with Jobs announcing iTunes 4.9 with podcasting. The next week Microsofties were calling around promising "amazing podcasting functionality in Longhorn." Pretty pathetic.
MSoft used to be lean and mean and smart. But they have lost their roots. And don't ever forget the illegal tactics they used to gain their success. You don't have to be smart to be a successful convicted felon.
Hmm.. lets see
Pop quiz.
1. Which company, despite being small was able to steal windows from larger company with better lawyers
A. IBM
B. Microsoft.
2. Which company, despite being more innovative, failed to patent it's user interface thus allowing it's competitor to reduce it to near irrelevance
A. Microsoft
B. Apple.
3. Who was the C.E.O of the company that was dumb enough not to patent his company revolutionary GUI.
A. Bill Gates
B. Steven P Jobs.
4. Which company destroyed Visalcac and Wordperfect
A. Apple
B. Microsoft.
5. Which company has destroyed numerous competitors by being ruthless and taking no prisoners
A. Apple
B. Microsoft
6. Which company you cannot absolutely dismiss if that company decides to enter your product space
A. Apple
B. Microsoft.
7. Which company has had the most failures
A. Microsoft (Microsoft Bob, missing the internet, missing importance of search, missing music business)
B. Apple (the cube, Copeland, Failing to allow clones thus consigning themselves to be nearly irrelevant, Newton, Missing enterprise market, Apple Lisa).
If you answered A to any of the questions above, give yourself a 0. If you answer B to any question above, give yourself a score of 1. If your score is 7. You are a genius, a regular einstein.
In fact, i am willing to bet microsoft has more failures than apple. Sometimes, more failures indicates more aggressiveness. Microsoft has more failures than I do in business. They have numerous, i have 0. They are a multibillion company, I have 0 revenues. It's always cute to list microsoft failures without realizing that they were at least trying things. They were doers, not thinkers. The more things you try, the more things you fail at. Listing microsoft failures is really irrelevant because so what?. For every area they failed to forsee, they managed to dominate. Less innovative does not equate to being dumb. Besides, there is no prize for being first to market. Being first to market did not help apple, did it? (GUI, newton, etc)
And don't be smug about itunes 4.9. Apple did not invent podcasting and they sure as hell did not forsee it. They are stealing the idea themselves. So what if microsoft will implement it later? Should we give apple a cookie for stealing the idea first?. As to some of microsoft tactics being illegal, yeah sure but that shows microsoft adapts. At first they were small and could not enforce their will, as they got bigger, they were able to enforce their will. If you think apple does not admire that, then you are not paying attention. Apple is doing same thing with Ipod. In fact, Apple is doing exactly what microsoft would have done with the Ipod. I think Steve Jobs has learned his lesson.
In business, no one cares if you are mother theresa. As a stockholder, i could care less if Steve wants to be fair, I want him to crush the competition. Finally, Jobs has seen the light. Business is about competition. No company gets points for being nice. The only reason apple fans harp on that is because apple lost. No current apple fan seems to have a problem with the way apple is treating the competition with the Ipod. I don't see any of you losing sleep over this. Where are the people shouting "apple, be fair!!". The losers always complain. Apple had more market share than microsoft at one point. That they allowed a company with less market share to bully them to a 5% market share is pathetic, don't you think?
Originally posted by Wingnut
franksargent,
Of all the Dell's I have worked with in the past 2 years, all of them have had physical defect and required RMA. One had a bad power supply, our work PCs had Hard drives recalled. Another friend had the entire machine replaced because they didn't know what was wrong with it. We are talking about 3 machines I had a first person experience with, but also consider my office has probably 500 machines involved in the HD recall. Is a faulty HD Dell's fault? In this case, I say yes. Just about everyone knows that Maxtor drives run quite hot, yet Dell chose to cram them in their tiny, poorly ventilated Optiplex cases anyway. I imagine they saved $5 a PC, until they had to replace thousands of them. Sure, everything is fixed under warranty, but it's not worth having a computer that can't keep a hard drive for more than 6 months. Dell can hold the number one position because people blame Windows for everything. Dell and Gateway both used to make great PCs, until they started making cheap PCs. Gateway fell apart because they lost their reputation. It's very possible Dell could do the same thing.
btw, it's not a pissing contest, I'm speaking from user experience. That normally counts for something.
Oh right, Apple's NEVER had a recall, NEVER had a class action hardware lawsuit (several DOZEN at last count), NEVER replaced hardware under warrenty?
iPod batteries anyone? Who made the batteries? NOT Apple!
Dell hard drive issues? Who made the hard drives? NOT Dell!
So using your FLAWED logic, you want to blame hardware issues on the software?
You definately ARE NOT Letterman!
I too speak from experience, as do tens of millions of other satisfied Dell users, as do dozens of other satisfied Apple users!
It bare's repeating. Can you say MARKET SHARE? Can you spell MARKET SHARE? Can you read?
Most of us were toilet trained at an early age, what door have you been standing behind? Where do I send the Depends?
All I can say is you must be a Democrat! Can you spell SORE LOSER?
Originally posted by franksargent
Oh right, Apple's NEVER had a recall, NEVER had a class action hardware lawsuit (several DOZEN at last count), NEVER replaced hardware under warrenty?
iPod batteries anyone? Who made the batteries? NOT Apple!
Dell hard drive issues? Who made the hard drives? NOT Dell!
So using your FLAWED logic, you want to blame hardware issues on the software?
You definately ARE NOT Letterman!
I too speak from experience, as do tens of millions of other satisfied Dell users, as do dozens of other satisfied Apple users!
It bare's repeating. Can you say MARKET SHARE? Can you spell MARKET SHARE? Can you read?
Most of us were toilet trained at an early age, what door have you been standing behind? Where do I send the Depends?
All I can say is you must be a Democrat! Can you spell SORE LOSER?
Frank, that was uncalled for. During the clinton years, the republicans moaned so often about clinton, i thought there were trying to make a porno flick. What's my point?. The minority party always complain about the majority. If that was a measure of who is loser, then frank, we are all losers (actually, republicans, after 6+ years, still complain about clinton). At least democrats stopped complaining about Reagon or Bush Senior. If you want to start a riot, go to a republican convention, take a microphone and shout "I love clinton!!". Good luck making it out alive. In contrast, the day after GW is booted from office, you'd be able to go to a democrat convention, shout "I love GW" and no one would even pay attention to you. We only pay attention to GW cause he's president. Who should we pay attention to? Bob, the next door neighbor? (actually, i should probably pay attention to my next door neighbor.. oh man!!, she is cute, but that is another story).
Originally posted by the cool gut
*sniff - looks like our baby's growing up! *sob
yep, and he/she is turning into a slut. well, teenage hormones and all that, exploring its sexuality and stuff...
Originally posted by melgross
That's nonsense. If this happens, it won't be for at least a year, possibly two. If Apple is working on "Numbers", and can put a version of Filemaker into the product then they would have a good suite.
Both Keynote and Pages are going to be upgraded.
If MS goes to XML as they are saying that they will, then file compatability will be easy.
Besides, Apple and any PC companies they might be working with would be aware of this, and would have something to offer. OpenOffice would also work.
First off, XML has absolutely nothing to do with file compatibility. You can output a file for Word 2003 compatibility now. Its not XML. XML makes it easier to read the content from a file, theoretically, depending on how the data is stored. But there's no saying at this point what MS's format is going to look like.
Second, file compatibiltiy doesn't mean 100% compatibile. OpenOffice says its compatible now, but, I believe, still can't handle certain features in Word documents. Plus, OpenOffice is a joke of a program. It tries to be too much like Office and not enough "Hey, what do people really want".
Third, iWork is also a joke, although the spreadsheet will help some. But it isn't close to being a Word killer. Keynote can be OK, depending on what you do presentations and PP for. But Pages lacks a lot of Word features that people use. Plus, its really a replacement for a simple page-layout program more than a Word processor.
Second, it would be GREAT in the long run, only IF one thing is met. Apple should at least at first license MacOS X out in a VERY limitied fashion, on just certain high-end, and maybe one or two low-end Dell models, and maybe a few HP models. Hey they do it with the HPod. Have both brand names stamped, have Dell/HP do the support. Validate all drivers. Ship. Take cut of profits. Step 3 steal underpants Step 4 ???? Step 5 ???? Step 6 profit!!
Seriously. Paradigm change. Finally admitted it. The OS is the soul of the computer. He's right. As long as it's quality hardware it is. And if they validate Dell hardware and drivers there is no reason they can't make a decent box to run OS X. Sure it's ugly but umm, it's cheap. It sells. Period.
Apple vs Microsoft ROUND 2!
Originally posted by franksargent
Oh right, Apple's NEVER had a recall, NEVER had a class action hardware lawsuit (several DOZEN at last count), NEVER replaced hardware under warrenty?
iPod batteries anyone? Who made the batteries? NOT Apple!
Dell hard drive issues? Who made the hard drives? NOT Dell!
So using your FLAWED logic, you want to blame hardware issues on the software?
You definately ARE NOT Letterman!
I too speak from experience, as do tens of millions of other satisfied Dell users, as do dozens of other satisfied Apple users!
It bare's repeating. Can you say MARKET SHARE? Can you spell MARKET SHARE? Can you read?
Most of us were toilet trained at an early age, what door have you been standing behind? Where do I send the Depends?
All I can say is you must be a Democrat! Can you spell SORE LOSER?
Hey somebody that knows where the shift key Is GOOD FOR YOU !!!
Originally posted by Wingnut
I agree. If Apple licenses to Dell, they will hurt--unless they want to lose all their hardware sales.
Not only that, Dells are quite crappy, IMO, especially all their entry level models. The workstation at my office is a Dell, and in the first 3 months, it fatally crashed 4 times, requiring a reformat each time. It had its third hard drive installed at about 6 months. Before you say it, I'm not a PC newbie. I've built maybe a dozen systems and have never had this kind of trouble running MS office. I wasn't the only person in the office with these issues either. If Apple allows OSX to be installed on this kind of crap, who knows what it will do for their reputation of "simply working." I know Dell is planning a "premium" line of PCs soon, which must really say something about the rest of their desktop product line. I still think Apple needs to keep things proprietary, if only to protect the image of system stability that helps them sell systems.
Here is MY prediction.
When APPLE ships LEPARD, it will be a self optimizing system, they will ship Mac OS X FOR ALL win/tel HARDWARE.
Mac hardware will then be based the Intel chip that has the most Alpha remnants in it ...
... about 10 TEN TIMES FASTER then the fastest Intel chip today !!!
Windows will run on this be much slow than OS X because they are no optimizing their systems for 64 bit.
And Winblows will also do porely on many other systems for the same reason.
You are one rude individual. FYI, I'm not a democrat, but I do kinda look like Date Letterman. However, maybe you shouldn't character assassinate every person who disagrees with you, especially over a PC. You have had good experiences with Dell, mine have been terrible. God forbid someone else might have an opinion different than your seemingly all-knowing mind. Based on your logic, what kind of person does that make you?
If you need a historical example, look at Gateway (2000). In the 90s, Gateway was huge. Into the 21st century, they started making cheaper PCs, and have gradually lost their image of reliability and quality. They have since closed down their outlets and now sell in Best Buys. I merely suggest that Dell could be heading down the same road. Yes, they have the most market share, but that doesn't mean they are the best. Dell sells machines for typically the cheapest price, and they also advertise the most (thanks in large part to a deal with Intel). There are millions of people out there that don't know what makes a PC good or bad, but they do know that they've heard of Dell, and that they are pretty cheap. Offices use Dell because Dell can supply lots of PCs at a good discount. Who at businesses makes the final decision on what PC to purchase? Not the tech department. You base your reasoning on market share. Does that mean GM makes the best cars? Does that mean McDonnald's makes the best hamburger? Quality helps, but price and image go a very very long way.
Originally posted by Wingnut
franksargent,
You are one rude individual. FYI, I'm not a democrat, but I do kinda look like Date Letterman. However, maybe you shouldn't character assassinate every person who disagrees with you, especially over a PC. You have had good experiences with Dell, mine have been terrible. God forbid someone else might have an opinion different than your seemingly all-knowing mind. Based on your logic, what kind of person does that make you?
If you need a historical example, look at Gateway (2000). In the 90s, Gateway was huge. Into the 21st century, they started making cheaper PCs, and have gradually lost their image of reliability and quality. They have since closed down their outlets and now sell in Best Buys. I merely suggest that Dell could be heading down the same road. Yes, they have the most market share, but that doesn't mean they are the best. Dell sells machines for typically the cheapest price, and they also advertise the most (thanks in large part to a deal with Intel). There are millions of people out there that don't know what makes a PC good or bad, but they do know that they've heard of Dell, and that they are pretty cheap. Offices use Dell because Dell can supply lots of PCs at a good discount. Who at businesses makes the final decision on what PC to purchase? Not the tech department. You base your reasoning on market share. Does that mean GM makes the best cars? Does that mean McDonnald's makes the best hamburger? Quality helps, but price and image go a very very long way.
DELL could go belly up at any minute if the public managed to find out what their true finances are, that they have cut margins so thin they are in the red. And accounting tricks have been hiding that fact for a while.
This could easily happen but is NOT likely now that Dell has soo much experience, although if he were distracted somehow, it can't be an easy company to run ...
Originally posted by Aquatic
Firstly, Dell is just making noise to play Apple against Monopolysoft, like they play AMD against Intel, for cheaper prices.
Second, it would be GREAT in the long run, only IF one thing is met. Apple should at least at first license MacOS X out in a VERY limitied fashion, on just certain high-end, and maybe one or two low-end Dell models, and maybe a few HP models. Hey they do it with the HPod. Have both brand names stamped, have Dell/HP do the support. Validate all drivers. Ship. Take cut of profits. Step 3 steal underpants Step 4 ???? Step 5 ???? Step 6 profit!!
Seriously. Paradigm change. Finally admitted it. The OS is the soul of the computer. He's right. As long as it's quality hardware it is. And if they validate Dell hardware and drivers there is no reason they can't make a decent box to run OS X. Sure it's ugly but umm, it's cheap. It sells. Period.
Apple vs Microsoft ROUND 2!
yup. discrete and tightly controlled licensing is very very possible. that's the power of your brand and brand value, once your initial investment in building up your brand is there, you milk it.
case in point: ferrari laptop as some of you have definitely seen:
http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/acer...top-009408.php
Apple will be ultra discreet though, they are the hardcore brand nazis of our time
Dell is too much of a risk to Apple's brand image though, not likely. HP, maybe...
"Apple vs Microsoft ROUND 2! "
overhead in redmond: APPLE SET US UP THE BOMB !!
http://usa.asus.com/products/notebook/nbindex.htm
and they have a CarbonFibre one, you, know, carbon fibre, like we were "supposed"
let's step out from our mac fantasy land for a second,
ignore the crappy text design on the webpage, and focus on the product design and styling features (widescreen on the ultraportable, white carbon fibre keys??) of the hardware of asus notebook. let's think about Mac os X running on something like these, spreading the joy of Mac...
Originally posted by BWhaler
You appear to be overlooking the fact that they broke the law on numerous occasions to obtain their success.
And even recently, with Jobs announcing iTunes 4.9 with podcasting. The next week Microsofties were calling around promising "amazing podcasting functionality in Longhorn." Pretty pathetic.
MSoft used to be lean and mean and smart. But they have lost their roots. And don't ever forget the illegal tactics they used to gain their success. You don't have to be smart to be a successful convicted felon.
Finally someone else calling a "felon" a "felon." And I know there are plenty of apologists that think everything is fair in love, war and business, but to me a company convicted of crimes (though not penalized due to changes at DOJ) is something that can not be ignored. To ignore them is to ignore any group that breaks the law ... whether you are a rightie or leftie.